PDA

View Full Version : Spearmen/Archers vs Seaguard



jigplums
22-01-2008, 23:31
What do people think?
Seaguard have the advantage of being able to perform mixed roles. They can pepper the eneemy and also have a nasty bite if they make it to combat.

Spearmen however are much cheaper, allowing either bigger ranked up units or more points to be spent elsewhere.

Archers again allow you to get effiecient cheap units into your force 10 man units are ideal and they dont need anymore than that. although more expensive than spearmen an effective squad is the cheapest way to fill a core slot

Opinions???

Malorian
22-01-2008, 23:53
Personally I like the idea of seaguard and think it's a great place to hide magic users, but I know a lot of people disagree with me...

theunwantedbeing
22-01-2008, 23:56
Spearmen are good to deploy wide, same goes for sea guard.
Archers need to deploy wide anyway.

Sea guard are good on hills(obviously) as they work like DE crossbowmen, peppering the enemy at close range for best effect and then getting stuck in.
Archer's and spearmen only fulfill one role.

We could give mathammer a go. That gives some idea of the worth of sea guard now.
It nicely proved how much they sucked last edition.

Goruax
23-01-2008, 00:10
I've always loved the fluff of the Seaguard, and they seem quite elite in an accessible way.
But then I'm a stickler for flavour...

To me, a unit that can fire and hold it's own, somewhat, is a pretty good unit.

Shamfrit
23-01-2008, 00:14
Since when have High Elves had large units? Not for a while, and Sea-Guard might lose a rank, but being able to stand and shoot, and serve two roles two relatively weak combat units would fill makes them considerably more versatile if you're willing to drop a rank.

Faust
23-01-2008, 00:16
Spearmen fill a great role in the High Elf List. They form a solid wall of spears that strike first in three ranks. I run them currently as 7x3 C/M/S and they work great. I switch the banners out and think that the Banner of Arcane Protection works well on them. (Phoenix Guard get the warbanner) I have been toying around with the idea of using them in 10 man units as a flank charger, like the empire detachment rules.

Archers
I think that this unit became better in this edition. I will admit that I run 10-12 of them regularly and they usually preform great. Just remember they will not take down chaos warriors in mass and that they will not take down empire knights in mass. Shoot them at lightly armored RnF, Fast Calvary, Flyers, Warmachines Crew. Take out the units that you wouldn't waste RBTs on.

Seaguard has become interesting. I see some people using them now because of the AsF rule. I still do not like the idea of running them as a big block. Rather I would use them instead of archers by the RBTs on a hill protecting a flank from Fast Calvary. Bows are not great but why would you take Archers if Seaguard had longbows?

All in all I think that the book has been layed out to make players decide what to take and what will work together. Also it still allows players to take a Seaguard List which is always welcome. As for the all mounted list. Take two archer units or spearmen and claim two quarters with them.

~Faust

Lord Brrrp
23-01-2008, 01:22
For me at least, the advantage of seaguard is that you never really know what your opponent will bring to the table (unless you are the fellow whose friend always plays Teclis).

So, during deployment, with seaguard I have the ability to use them as a spear block or shooting. Sometimes, it helps to be able to shoot early then block them up. Flexibility for a small cost is why I like seaguard.

Now the downside, the cost more and their range goes down.
Nothing is perfect in this World.

Chiungalla
23-01-2008, 04:32
The Seaguard is no good choice for me.
You can field 10 Archers (110 points) and 21 Spearmen with full command (214 Points) for only 26 points more then a unit of 21 Seaguards with shields and full command (298 points.

And for this 26 points, you get:
- 10 more wounds
- 6 inches more range for your ranged combat
- 4 strengh 3 shoots less, if the Seaguard would stand on a hill
- 3 strengh 3 shoots more, if you have no hill for the Seaguard
- The chance to move the Spears without suffering penalties for your shooting phase
- The chance to still shoot, while the spears are in close combat

The high elf Archers can defend them self very good against light cavalry and small flyers.

But I would not go for Spearmen or Seaguard at all.
2 Units of archers work fine in 1.500 and 2.000 points.
Spears are easily broken by good cavalry, and even more so by good infantry, because strengh 3 isn't this good against toughness 4 and/or good armor.

ScytheSwathe
27-01-2008, 10:47
For me the clincher is being able to move the spears with not suffering -1 to shoot with archers, can be very handy in my opinion. However i dont mind having sea guard, deploy them as archers, then redress ranks at the last moment for stand and shoot + 3 ranks striking first, very painful, ive taken down chaos knights with that (and some lucky rolls) before.

Necronoxz
27-01-2008, 13:11
I use seaguards all the time ;)
I use them to hide my games is ;)

It's the trick to not get in combat whit my mages but when They charge me,
I can stand and shoot AND i strike first with my spears this means If I have 2 lines with 7 on them each this mean 14 shoots S3 and 14 Attacks S3 before they can strike back ;) little nasty aight?

Crazy Harborc
28-01-2008, 00:01
20 Seaguard, on the front edge of a hill, in two ranks, shooting with BS4. They did do damage to my Dwarves. My opponent had at least average dice rolls Saturday.:( He did fail (finally that is) his leadership roll. It was long in coming....but....he rolled boxcars!!!:evilgrin:

marv335
28-01-2008, 00:20
I tend to field 20 seaguard with full command, and the banner of arcane protection in a 7x3.
put them on a hill with a noble armed with a great weapon and the reaver bow.
they make a very solid core to my army.

FurryMiguell
29-01-2008, 20:14
I go with a unit of 30 seaguards and two units of 10 archers for my defencive position. it gives you some CC, and a powerful shootinground. the number must course be incresed as the pts limit increse

Cheers:D

Wolfmother
29-01-2008, 20:59
seaguard suck me heavily!

all about archers and spearmen not that id do he anyway!

Jack of Blades
29-01-2008, 21:02
If I played HE, I'd not use Spearmen I think. Sea Guard with detachments of Archers. I have a fetish for troops being able to fulfill multiple roles, and Sea Guard... if I'd ever get drawn to a HE army, Sea Guard would be a strong part of that pull.

The Old Scholar
30-01-2008, 02:51
I put all three...

FurryMiguell
30-01-2008, 06:37
Dont listen to them! their all mad! crazy i say! Heretics! They must burn! they dont know whats best for you! everybody knows Seaguards are the best choise! No they dont, cause it really depends on you playingstyle! Seaguards are allrounders, archers for defencive, speearmen for offencive! I will now burry myself in a bottomless pitt! or, its very very deep! but ill bring my PC, so youre not rid of my yet!

mad greetings form the madest of greyseers, FurryMiguell

Cheers:D