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Bergtorp
26-09-2005, 21:15
What do ya all think?? I think it would be so cool, but that might be because I love Japan. I was wondering if peaple would like the idea or if I'm wasting my preacious time. I thing that I can reveal is that there is no such thing as Magic Items here, ohhh no, here we have Sword skill. Can you see it before you?? A Chaos Champion packed with Magic Itmes, and the samurai just cuts his head of, with an ordinary katana, after some Sword fighting. And also, is tehre already such a thing?? I have found an old page with old rules, but they are to much like Empire.

So??

lord_blackfang
26-09-2005, 22:21
Yeah it's called Nippon.

Which is bloody unoriginal, but hey...

KellerMeister
27-09-2005, 00:37
I know there is a not-to-be-trifled-with amount of support for this out there, but personally I don't like the concept of a Nipponese army for Warhammer. My dislike of Nippon is probably caused by knowing too little of true Japanese mythology. The only japanese fantasy I know is what I've seen in various Manga movies and comics and I think that would be very difficult to smoothly blend with the European/Arabic fantasy setting that I believe Warhammer to be. It might be doable, but I think not. Sorry.

Cathay, perhaps, if it's done well, but first and foremost - Araby.

Bergtorp
27-09-2005, 06:43
But just as the Japanese were isolated by will, these shall be to. Japan was forced to open and these have come to the conclusion that they can't stay the way they are.

lord_blackfang?? k. But are there any rules??

devolutionary
27-09-2005, 06:51
No, there are no official rules for Nippon, just as there are no official rules for Cathay.

RGB
27-09-2005, 07:58
You can find a decent unofficial list over here:

http://www.lightalliance.co.uk/hammer/viewtopic.php?t=6

There's a lot more around if you care to look though.

Nargrakhan
27-09-2005, 10:26
The only japanese fantasy I know is what I've seen in various Manga movies and comics and I think that would be very difficult to smoothly blend with the European/Arabic fantasy setting that I believe Warhammer to be. It might be doable, but I think not. Sorry.

Hmmm.... don't be doubtful. In 40K, the Tau are nothing more than a Japanimation mecha rip - and that's gone over pretty well. Nippon is certainly doable: Japan has a rich history, even without the really fanciful stuff anime/manga tends to throw in.

Samurai, Ronin, Kensai, Sohei, Miko, Shinobi - these are only a mere fraction of the things they could use, to say nothing of mythical creatures like Oni and Kitsune.

KellerMeister
27-09-2005, 10:49
Hmmm.... don't be doubtful. In 40K, the Tau are nothing more than a Japanimation mecha rip - and that's gone over pretty well. Nippon is certainly doable: Japan has a rich history, even without the really fanciful stuff anime/manga tends to throw in.

Samurai, Ronin, Kensai, Sohei, Miko, Shinobi - these are only a mere fraction of the things they could use, to say nothing of mythical creatures like Oni and Kitsune.

Yes, they are all worthy warriors, but picture them fighting Orcs, Elves or Dwarfs... For me it causes a mental clash similar to what Predator vs. Goofy would. I mean you could throw almost any type of Warhammer model into just about any Grimm Brother tale without it getting too silly - but a samurai? Neeeh...

And don't think I don't see your mangaesque-avatar there... ;)

Nargrakhan
27-09-2005, 11:15
And don't think I don't see your mangaesque-avatar there... ;)

Guilty as charged. :p

Hideous Loon
27-09-2005, 19:28
And who would the Nipponese fight? Remember, childen, Japan is on the other side of the world and the only worthy enemies would be Chaos, Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs and the odd Dark Elves Black Ark. If you want to have a Nippon army, make up some fluff about how they ended up in the Old World to begin with. I don't think they have trading issues, the Chinese were the ones who desired trade.

Bergtorp
27-09-2005, 21:18
I will. But now I want to know if there is a desire and interest in the idea.

Renka
29-09-2005, 19:57
Well, if anyone is interested I have had a go at creating a Nippon army list, which can be found at my web page (Renka's Place (http://www.renkasplace.cjb.net)). I wrote it in Word, but I can fix you a .pdf version if you want.
For all you people who are doubtful there should even be a Nippon in the Warhammer world: I agree with you. Wheter I think it's a good idea or not does not matter though, it is there and so it will remain. Thing is, I figure it's better that I write up a (unoficial at that) list rather then someone who would do it badly. Now, I don't wanna smirk or anything, I'm just saying it could have been done worse than I did it, and I though that I might as well give my opinion on how it would be done rather than just sitting alone at my computer, cursing people I don't know.
Another question that have come up is "Who would they fight?". That's a really good question, and one that I asked myself before I even put hand to the keyboard. I too found it a little odd that Chaos Warriors and the forces of Khemri would march all the way over the world just to fight some samurai guys, so I wrote up two additional army lists to give the Nipponese some enemies. Those two can't be found at my web page, but I can put them up there should anyone want to see them there.

Bergtorp
29-09-2005, 20:55
I like your list Renka, but there are some things I like to change. I like to remove some and add some. But I will not copy your list.
Some reasons?? k. How about they travel east, cross the sea and fight DF and Lizzies. Just one reason.

Renka
30-09-2005, 14:26
What changes do you suggest? I'd love to hear them! :)
Yah, but that is a possibility, not a reason. The fact that they CAN sail east doesn't mean they want to. It seems like Chaos and the Old One's are behind everything these days, and I believe it's nice to have a few armies that does not resolve around that. Of course you can field the Nipponese against any army, that is a must when designing lists, only thing is the background doesn't really support it. This shouldn't be a problem though, as there are so many eastern armies to choose between (of course I am talking about lists made by me here, but there are others as well, many of which are probably better then mine) anyways.

TenTailedCat
30-09-2005, 15:36
It always seemed to me that if a Japanese army was ever released that would kill the Fantasy aspect of WHFB for me and turn it into a parody of the real world, which it is now but I guess; but becuase it's based in European myths and history it can still seem otherwordly because that's how our mythology has always been, by introducing Japan into the mix it breaks the spell and would kind of ruin it for me.

This is odd becuase at heart i'm a bit of a Japanophile, I listen to Jrock music, speak a little of the language, import their video games etc... I like it, but it just doesn't fit with my image of the WH world.

Bergtorp
01-10-2005, 00:13
Renka: I would like to remove magic items. Not all, but most of em. I like to see an army with heros how not good because of there magical weapons and armour, which they got we don't know, but because of his use with his sword. A little like High Elves Hounors. And with the Samurai theme it goes splendid. I also like to add some units, which I'm working on. I'm now up to 6 units to the list containing Ashigaru, Hatamoto, Ikko-ikki, Shei, Yamabushi and Rnin. And I also want to give em some nice rules sinse I don't a bigger, badder, stronger army as GW is spiting em out right now. I think some armies are to physical strong, so this will be a weak one. I'll post the entire list when it's done here, because I want to here what you have to say about it.

TenTailedCat: I can understand this, but I will try to make it more fantasy like. What do say about Onis, Kitsunes and Mothriders?? Maybe more if I can think of any.

Trunks
01-10-2005, 05:00
I only want to see a "Nippon" army if it focuses on mysticism and crazy creatures. That would be cool. If the army is a direct transplant of fuedal Japan with tons of samurai it will be so dull.

Focus on crazy monks and mysterious mystics of mysticism, not samurai.

Bergtorp
01-10-2005, 08:27
But I think we have enough religion crazy our-god-is-almighty-and-it-will-smite-you-down armies. Sure I have monks. Ikko-ikki, Shei and Yamabushi. Yamabushi was also said, irl, to have been mystics, healers and mediums. And how long do you think they would have lasted?? They would have drove west and been crushed by Cathay, and that would have been the end of the great Nippon army.

marineowar
01-10-2005, 09:45
Just read this through and thought of a reason that they might come to the Warhammer World. They have been shamed/dishonoured/cast out of their home for insulting the Emperor/not paying taxes/etc. Istead of demanding their deaths the Emperor sent them out into the wider world to learn about the other peoples.

Bergtorp
01-10-2005, 12:34
That is a good reason. But I have to highlight that Nippon, as well as Cathay, is a part of the Warhammer World. Sure, it's a long way from the Old World, but so is the Ogre Kingdoms. That doesn't mean that they shouldn't exist.

Renka
01-10-2005, 13:03
Well, I am a total Japan-freak and wanted to keep everything as historical as I only could. I really couldn't bring myself to include anything in the list that would not have been possible in a real Japanese army of the 17th century (the Sen Goku era). I made an exception to this by including priests and sohei, who would never openly participate in war, because you can't very well have a Warhammer army with no connection to magic at all.

To me, it is crazy to ruin Nippon by having it stand for "un-Japanese" stuff. Sure you can have that kind of thing, but don't shove it in where it doesn't belong. Warrior monks (generally speaking) are a Chinese thing, and so they belong to the Cathay list, not the Nippon (or samurai) list. At least not in my opinion.

On magic items, such things have played a big roll in Japanese folklore, just as it has in western history, so I can't see any reason not to include it in the Nipponese list. And on Yamabushi, I too had them in my first list. I later replaced them with Kensai, though, as I felt that is a more familiar theme with most people.

I'd like to conclude my post with a note on the subject of fantasy elements in a Nippon list. Even though Warhammer takes place in a fantasy world, not every army have to incorporate fantastic elements. Just look at the Bretonnia and Empire lists; the only fantasy elements in those lists are the magic, the magic items and the various steeds. You don't see anyone complain about that do you? Why? Because the enemies they face are fantastic enough so you don't really need any more fantasy elements in the game! That's why I made a histric Nippon list and two fantasy-inspired lists to make enemies for the samurai guys.

Sojourner
01-10-2005, 15:48
I would meld the 'Japan' concept with Easterlings from LoTR, personally. Throw in some other unique influences and they may be a bit more interesting.

I think they'd probably play like Bretonnians without horses, and possibly a little more artillery.

Bergtorp
01-10-2005, 17:46
No. There main battleline consists of Ashigaru. Ordinary foot-soldiers. The only unit on foot of only Samurais are Hatamotos and Rnins. Sure all cavalry are Samurais but they are not the best armoured.

Renka. I have looked into this with magical weapons. and I admit when I'm beaten. But I only found two weapons. Can you give me some advise about where I can find some more?? I'm a big fan of Japan, Japanese history and Japanese culture, but I'm not that schoolered in this area.

Bergtorp
23-10-2005, 19:54
k... Now I have been work on this army list, and I would like some response. I have done all units, but I'm unsure about the cost. That's why I've left that spuare unfilled. I'll work on background on everything, but I can post this as it's now.

Lords
0-1 Daimyo:
Daimyo
M 4
WS 5
BS 5
S 3
T 3
W 3
I 4
A 3
Ld 9
Samurai
M 4
WS 4
BS 4
S 3
T 3
W 1
I 4
A 2
Ld 8
Unit size: One Daimyo and 4-14 Samurais.
Weapons and armour: Daisho and Heavy Armour.
Options: The Daimyo may buy up to 100 pts worth of magic items and/or skills.
Special Rules: Stand Fast!, Samurai.
0-1 Tempel Master:
Tempel Master
M 4
WS 9
BS 9
S 4
T 4
W 3
I 6
A 5
Ld 10
Weapons: None.
Options: The Master may buy up to 100 pts worth of skills.
Special Rules: Master of Martial Arts, Buddist.
0-1 Dragon Lord:
Dragon Lord
M 6
WS 7
BS 3
S 7
T 6
W 5
I 5
A 6
Ld 10
Options: The Dragon Lord is a Level 2 wizard. May be upgraded to a Level 4 wizard fo +50 pts/level. May use spells from the lore of Heavens, Fire, Life, Death, Shadow, Dark, High or Light.
Special Rules: Fly, Terror, Scaly Skin, Mystical Creature, Breathe.

Heros:
Shugo:
Samurai
M 4
WS 5
BS 4
S 3
T 3
W 2
I 5
A 3
Ld 8
Weapons and armour: Daisho and Heavy Armour.
Options:
§ May be equipped with a Yuri (+2 pts), a Naginata (+4 pts), or a Bo (+2 pts).
§ May be equipped with a Daikyu (+2 pts), a Hankyu (+1 pts), or an Arquebuse (+3 pts).
§ May ride a Horse (+9 pts) and may then be equipped with a Tachi (+1 pts).
§ The Samurai may buy up to 50 pts worth of magical items and/or skills.
Special Rules: Samurai.
Warrior Priest:
Warrior Priest
M 4
WS 5
BS 4
S 3
T 4
W 2
I 5
A 4
Ld 8
Weapons: None.
Options: May be equipped with a Bo (+4 pts), a Jo (+2 pts), or a pair of Tonfas (+4 pts).
Special Rules: Martial Arts, Buddist.
Kitsune:
Kitsune
M 5
WS 4
BS 3
S 3
T 3
W 2
I 6
A 1
Ld 8
Weapons: Katana.
Options:
§ Kitsune is a Level 1 wizard. May be upgraded to a Level 2 wizard for +30 pts. May use spells from the lore of Shadow or Fire.
§ May be equipped with a Bo (+2 pts).
Special Rules: Mystical Creature, Trickster.
0-1 Oni:
Oni
M 5
WS 6
BS 2
S 5
T 4
W 3
I 5
A 4
Ld 10
Weapons: Claws and Tetsuna.
Special Rules: Mystical Creature, Fear.

Special Rules:
Mystical Creature: Grants 5+ Ward Save aganist non-magical attacks, and Magic Resistance 1.
Trickster: May choose a enemy model in base contact and force him to make a Leadership test. If he passes nothing happens but if he fails he either lose all of his attacks or attacks his own unit with -2 less attacks, choosen by the Kitsune player. Has no effect on models how are Immune to Phsykology.
Buddist: Generates one Dispell Dice.
Martial Arts: Grants a +5 Ward Save.
Master of Martial Arts: Grants a +4 Ward Save.
Stand Fast: Any unit within line of site of the Daimyo and his Samurais becomes Stubborn if the Daimyo doesn't move. But if the Daimyo flees every unit, not buddists, within line of site to the Daimyo have to take a Panic test.
Samurai: All count as characters for the purpose of Challenge.

Adeptus1
23-10-2005, 20:30
Aha, but who said all part of the army of Nippon stayed in their homeland? You could always make up things like a rich Nipponese merchant travelled towards Empire with a whole army as his guards. And remember, clan Eshin went to Nippon to train their assasins.
@Bergtorp the list is quite cool, but whats a "Shugo"? I think you should add a "Shogun" to the hero list, they are the generals of a Japanese army.
And perhaps an "Orochi" in the rare list, they are like a dark elf hydra.
Btw, I'm Japanese.
Adep.

Bergtorp
23-10-2005, 20:43
It takes some while to write all this, so it takes some time. No, Shugo was like landlord. Shogun was the man who controlled all the armies.

Emresh
27-10-2005, 01:29
In all honesty, as much as I personally love the idea of a Nipponese army in Warhammer, in the end I think that it would be much better handled as an Allied force in the same manner that Kislev was done not so long ago. While it's true that it is limited, the fact is that the only references to the armies of Nippon battling outside of their own lands is in the odd allied force helping out Cathay on occasion and one or two mentions of the rare mercenary in other parts of the world. Given, the reletively small size of Nippon, a full army list is just not justified no matter how cool it might be or how matter how much we (myself included) might like to see it. Now an Allied list on the other hand...

And now for something completely different (and something that will likely see me flamed at the stake :p ) an odd thought occured to me while I was skimming through this thread: What if the race that actually inhabits Nippon in warhammer were not humans at all, but rather a Tau-like species. Now before you lynch me, think about it... The Tau are obviously anime inspired. The Nipponese "Tau" need not be inferior close combatants like the 40k version but more samurai-like. This would eliminate the need to have yet another human army in a fantasy world. Ainu-Kroot-Beastmen! (OK, the ainu-kroot-beastmen idea was a joke, but the rest is a valid idea IMO.) OK, let the flaming begin! :D

Gabacho Mk.II
27-10-2005, 08:01
In all honesty, as much as I personally love the idea of a Nipponese army in Warhammer, in the end I think that it would be much better handled as an Allied force in the same manner that Kislev was done not so long ago. While it's true that it is limited, the fact is that the only references to the armies of Nippon battling outside of their own lands is in the odd allied force helping out Cathay on occasion and one or two mentions of the rare mercenary in other parts of the world. Given, the reletively small size of Nippon, a full army list is just not justified no matter how cool it might be or how matter how much we (myself included) might like to see it. Now an Allied list on the other hand...



This is exactly what a great many posters stated concerning the Chaos Dwarfs.

Well, we will see CD's marching in column, heading 'west,' when, a year or so from now?




And now for something completely different (and something that will likely see me flamed at the stake :p ) an odd thought occured to me while I was skimming through this thread: What if the race that actually inhabits Nippon in warhammer were not humans at all, but rather a Tau-like species. Now before you lynch me, think about it... The Tau are obviously anime inspired. The Nipponese "Tau" need not be inferior close combatants like the 40k version but more samurai-like. This would eliminate the need to have yet another human army in a fantasy world. Ainu-Kroot-Beastmen! (OK, the ainu-kroot-beastmen idea was a joke, but the rest is a valid idea IMO.) OK, let the flaming begin! :D



Now this idea is overall inspiring.

I would love to present my idea as to what a 'Nipponese' army would resemble. If anyone cares.:)

therisnosaurus
27-10-2005, 08:42
those who say nippon would have no one to fight are just being plain uninventive. note that all of these are based off the CPM projects for the east. As much as a plug is no doubt not appreciated, if you're interested in checking out and playtesting the best and biggest oriental rules project around, chuck me a line- Cathay, Nippon, Khuresh- humans, BoC, goblins, Elves and vampires, we have variant lists for several armies and a totally new 60 page army book for Cathay, incorporating Nippon as a BoB army.

empire: merchant fleets regularly travel through nippon and conflicts have been known to break out

brets: as above, especially as nippon and brettonia have strict but differing codes of honour

BoC: are pretty much everwhere where there are forests/jungles, though the CPM interpretation has beasts in the east as feline or reptillian depending on area

HoC: nippon is actually quite close to the lands of chaos and thus marauders and daemons would probably be a pain in the ass for northern nipponese. also, in the background I've looked at and written, the mountains in north Nippon are home to a fair population of dragon ogres who can make things hectic if they so desire.

Skaven: skaven only recently managed to get to nippon, finding their way on merchant vessels as the seas around nippon are too deep to tunnel under. Nevertheless, they breed quickly and, well, nippon's rodent exterminators have been kept fairly busy.

DoW: are anywhere there's money, and nippon and Cathay have a lot of money

dwarfs: this is probably the one race you'd least likely find, yet there's still the possibility of nipponese travelling the silver road and pissing off the dwarves in the world's edge. Also, nippon is home to the finest human weaponsmiths in the warhammer world and the materials they use would likely be of much worth to the dwarfs

HE: while HE are staunch allies of nippon, mostly due to mutual hatred of the dark elves, conflicts have occured in the past and are likely to again.

DE: dark elves are really the prime enemy of nippon, which, along with cathay, provides most of their slaves. Cathayans and nipponese abhor the druichi and this is the primary reason for their alliance with the HE

WE: while woodelves wouldn't usualy fight nipponese, the same could be said of khemrians and other races distant from Loren. that said, background wise there are a faction of elves known as the 'forsaken' in the deeper jungles of khuresh who use variant WE rules

VC: vampires generaly don't travel that far, but there have been cases of coffins washing up on far flung shores or ships mysteriously sailing into port with their entire crews dead and drained of blood. And there's always the Cathayan vampire bloodline that haunts the jungles, the ever mysterious Shigaion

TK: the bone fleet of the tomb kings is mostly for raiding around the southlands and araby, yet there have been one or two cases of TK engaging the nipponese fleet and attempting landings, though the nipponese quickly saw them off. Nippon has also made attempts to explore the lands of Khemri, with the opposite result.

Ogres: the sea barrier is somewhat of an issue for ogres, but maybe a rogue band of mercenaries goes on an eating spree in nippon or something similar. the Nipponese have also regularly allied with Cathay to repulse larger ogre invasions into Cathayan territory.



also a few other notes:
on the new map, nippon is actually bloody big, a good sight closer to the size of the empire than anything else. remember, it isn't japan, it's NIPPON...

the Samurai are the obvious choice for the nipponese army, yet they don't fit in the grim darkness of WHFB. if you made them more like brettonian knights- ruthless overlords and so forth, maybe then they'd fit better

futher, you cannot make a valid WHFB consisting entirely, or even mainly of historical units. historical BASED units maybe, but no samurai, ninjas, ashigaru and so forth. In the CPM interpretation, we have similar units, but they are named differently- swordsaints, Living shadows and warclad/lowborn respectively. this means people who AREN'T japan freaks actually have some idea of what they are. while most people know what samurai and ninjas are, not so many know what ashigaru, tengu, kami, oni, kappa, Daisho and Taisho are. best keep the names simple and in english. you don't see empire characters named in high german, or dwarfs in norse, HE in greek or WE in celtic. they have names accurately describing what they do or who they are in english. follow the trend, it helps us non-fanatics.

Icewalker
27-10-2005, 11:53
Well, if anyone is interested I have had a go at creating a Nippon army list, which can be found at my web page (Renka's Place (http://www.renkasplace.cjb.net)). I wrote it in Word, but I can fix you a .pdf version if you want.
For all you people who are doubtful there should even be a Nippon in the Warhammer world: I agree with you. Wheter I think it's a good idea or not does not matter though, it is there and so it will remain. Thing is, I figure it's better that I write up a (unoficial at that) list rather then someone who would do it badly. Now, I don't wanna smirk or anything, I'm just saying it could have been done worse than I did it, and I though that I might as well give my opinion on how it would be done rather than just sitting alone at my computer, cursing people I don't know.
Another question that have come up is "Who would they fight?". That's a really good question, and one that I asked myself before I even put hand to the keyboard. I too found it a little odd that Chaos Warriors and the forces of Khemri would march all the way over the world just to fight some samurai guys, so I wrote up two additional army lists to give the Nipponese some enemies. Those two can't be found at my web page, but I can put them up there should anyone want to see them there.
Correct if I'm wrong, but I believe they were called Taisho the first hero thing (whatever you called it before hand). Your Ashigaru are too powerful. Ashigaru were the less well trained soldiers of Japan (more like the conscripts) and had longer spears than that of the yari samurai who had shorter ones.

The Samurai are too powerful for starters. A daisho is a katana and a wakizashi. Bring down their WS to 4 and their strength toughness are also too high. They are average humans with extreme discipline, not gods. On the Budoka, I don't know what that is supposed to represent. Bring down the WS on Shinobi and make them M 4. Shinobi were spies and scouts, not fighters.

No-dachi you still need to make the toughness lower. They are humans and they have toughness three. Only exception are the lords and heroes. For rare units, maybe you could have a unit of "lesser" Oni. Special Charracters you could have hito-kiri batousai.

Emresh
27-10-2005, 21:17
This is exactly what a great many posters stated concerning the Chaos Dwarfs.

Well, we will see CD's marching in column, heading 'west,' when, a year or so from now?

Actually, there's a difference between the two. Chaos Dwarves had been around from virtually the beginning in one incarnation or another and had a long history of well publicised battles in the western part of the old world against several different foes and alongside several different allies (one internal GW campaign as reported in WD back when it was still good comes to mind in particular. Further, they were well known even into the latest depths of this incoarnation of WH.

Nippon on the other hand, while also around since virtually the beginning, has almost no consistent history other than the occasional word of reference now and then since the first incarnations of warhammer. The fact is that they are only remembered because they had a loyal enough fan base to have a vocal few still asking for them. Now, as I said before, I'd love to see a full official Nippon army, but to do so at this time would be almost as left-field as the OK and we all know the uproar that caused. That combigned with the fact that GW most likely has only the slimmest of interest in them (if any) means that their best odds are an official allies list that can be expanded at a later date (much as was done with Kislev who were arguably already popular, and similar to the start that the current incarnation of Chaos Dwarves had.) That is the best shot that Nippon has outside of fan lists like these (not that there is anything wrong with fan lists. I've loved skimming through these, and anything that makes the game more fun for the players is great by me. :D )


Now this idea is overall inspiring.

Glad you liked it! Actually, the more I think about it, the more the idea of samurai-like Tau in WHFantasy appeals to me. Any other thoughts on this concept?


I would love to present my idea as to what a 'Nipponese' army would resemble. If anyone cares.:)

Like I said, I love skimming through fan lists like these, so please do! :)

vernius
27-10-2005, 21:31
I am just going to say that I think the whole idea of a Jap based army just horrible. I am not a fan of anime or Jap history or Jap culture. Maybe I am a minority here but thats just how I feel. I mean WFB is a WESTERN fantasy setting, with a little bit of eastern euorpe thrown in. Again this is jsut my opinion.

Icewalker
27-10-2005, 22:34
I am just going to say that I think the whole idea of a Jap based army just horrible. I am not a fan of anime or Jap history or Jap culture. Maybe I am a minority here but thats just how I feel. I mean WFB is a WESTERN fantasy setting, with a little bit of eastern euorpe thrown in. Again this is jsut my opinion.
WATCH IT. I'M JAPANESE YOU KNOW. DON'T **** ME OFF.

Kimi
28-10-2005, 01:39
If we see samurai in Fantasy, I would like them to be a single unit of Dogs of War. I don't know much on real world Japan, so I'm not sure if that would happen. Maybe they've lost their honour or something?

I'd rather keep the armies we've got now and have the rest as Dogs of War units. Or maybe have the ability to pick Dogs of War army that has a Nippon style or Cathay style.

Icewalker
28-10-2005, 02:08
If we see samurai in Fantasy, I would like them to be a single unit of Dogs of War. I don't know much on real world Japan, so I'm not sure if that would happen. Maybe they've lost their honour or something?

I'd rather keep the armies we've got now and have the rest as Dogs of War units. Or maybe have the ability to pick Dogs of War army that has a Nippon style or Cathay style.
A long time ago before my computer crashed, I had made a RoR of Ninja and it was actually really well balanced and everything, but I lost the file because my computer crashed. If I find them somewhere, I'll make sure to put them up. I'd rather have an RoR of Samurai rather than an army cause that's so much easier to deal w/. Ronin, like in Chushingura.

Gabacho Mk.II
29-10-2005, 08:06
.....
Like I said, I love skimming through fan lists like these, so please do! :)



In my opinion, I would use the 'discovery' of Nippon and introduce a brand new troop type: Half-Elves [half human - half elf]

This would allow GW to come up with all sorts of extremely new storylines, armylists, magical weapons, original [as original as GW can get;)]background, insert a new shot of life into the Warhammer world, and, of course, allow for all new miniatures and models!!!

The emergence of Half-Elves into the Warhammer world, and more specificaly the dwellers of Nippon, would allow fairly easy tie-ins with the small existing background of what we have now of Nippon.

So that, in my formula, we would see a true 'neutral' Elven [well, HALF Elven] that can easily have dealings with Dark Elves as well as High Elves, can easily be tied in with the 'human' dwellers of Cathay [assuming that Cathay is following a human-empire template], be allowed to use a varying number of magical weapons [with some limits of course!] from the Dark/High Elves, and be able to come up with a very specific magic lore(s?) that would grace the minds of those who merely pick up the Nippon armybook and browse through the sheets.


There is more to what I am suggesting, but that is my idea in a nutshel.




[sorry, no armylist to go with that yet from my mind] :cool:

Icewalker
29-10-2005, 20:45
In my opinion, I would use the 'discovery' of Nippon and introduce a brand new troop type: Half-Elves [half human - half elf]

This would allow GW to come up with all sorts of extremely new storylines, armylists, magical weapons, original [as original as GW can get;)]background, insert a new shot of life into the Warhammer world, and, of course, allow for all new miniatures and models!!!

The emergence of Half-Elves into the Warhammer world, and more specificaly the dwellers of Nippon, would allow fairly easy tie-ins with the small existing background of what we have now of Nippon.

So that, in my formula, we would see a true 'neutral' Elven [well, HALF Elven] that can easily have dealings with Dark Elves as well as High Elves, can easily be tied in with the 'human' dwellers of Cathay [assuming that Cathay is following a human-empire template], be allowed to use a varying number of magical weapons [with some limits of course!] from the Dark/High Elves, and be able to come up with a very specific magic lore(s?) that would grace the minds of those who merely pick up the Nippon armybook and browse through the sheets.


There is more to what I am suggesting, but that is my idea in a nutshel.


[sorry, no armylist to go with that yet from my mind] :cool:
Not to sound rude or anything, but what are the olds of there being enough humans and elves making out to have a society of "half-elves"? Sounds kinda of unrealistic, and yet at the same time, that's what GW lives for.

therisnosaurus
30-10-2005, 01:49
also, the dark elves would likely torture and ridicule anyone who even associated with the high elves, and vice versa. being neutral in warhammer will only get you killed, because EVERYONE will be your enemy, not everyone being your friend

Bergtorp
30-10-2005, 21:47
And here are some troops. Now with a little explanation with teh name.

Core
Ashigaru (Common soldiers)
Ashigaru
M 4
WS 3
BS 3
S 3
T 3
W 1
I 3
A 1
Ld 6
Ashigarugashira
M 4
WS 3
BS 3
S 3
T 3
W 1
I 3
A 2
Ld 7
Samurai
M 4
WS 4
BS 4
S 3
T 3
W 1
I 4
A 2
Ld 7
Unit size: 20-40.
Weapons and armour: Katana and Light armour.
Options:
Any unit may exchange their Katana for a Yari (+1 pts/modell), or a Daikyu (+2pts/modell).
Any unit may be equipped with Sashimono (+0,5 pts/modell).
Upgrade one Ashigaru to a Musician for +5 pts.
Promote one Ashigaru to a Ashigarugashira for +10 pts.
Promote one Ashigaru to a Samurai for +15 pts.
Character: A Samurai is equipped with a Daisho and Heavy armour. They may also be equipped with a Yari (+1 pts), and/or a Daikyu (+2 pts).

0-1 Hatamoto (Samurai bodyguard)
Hatamoto
M 4
WS 4
BS 4
S 3
T 3
W 1
I 3
A 2
Ld 8
Samurai
M 4
WS 4
BS 4
S 3
T 3
W 1
I 4
A 2
Ld 8
Unit size: 10-20.
Weapons and armour: Nodachi, Daisho and Heavy armour.
Options:
Any unit may be equipped with Sahimono (+1 pts/modell).
Upgrade one Hatamoto to a Musician for +5 pts.
Promote one Hatamoto to a Samurai for +5 pts.
Special Rules: Samurai, Respectful.

0-1 Ikko-ikki (Fanatic Peasant)
Peasant
M 4
WS 2
BS 2
S 3
T 3
W 1
I 3
A 1
Ld 5
Monk
M 4
WS 3
BS 3
S 3
T 3
W 1
I 3
A 2
Ld 6
Samurai
M 4
WS 3
BS 3
S 3
T 3
W 1
I 3
A 2
Ld 5
Unit size: 10-30.
Weapons and armour: Hand weapons.
Options:
Upgrade one Peasant to a Musician for +5 pts.
Promote one Peasant to a Monk for +10 pts.
Promote one Peasant to a Samurai for +10 pts.
If the Ikko-ikki contains a Monk, they may get a Buddist banner for +20 pts.
If the Ikko-ikki contains a Samurai, then the entire can be equipped with Naginata (+2 prs/modell).
Special rules: Buddist follower.

0-1 Shei (Warrior monks)
Warrior Monk
M 4
WS 4
BS 4
S 3
T 4
W 1
I 4
A 1
Ld 8
Priest
M 4
WS 4
BS 4
S 3
T 4
W 1
I 4
A 3
Ld 8
Unit size: 10-20.
Weapons and armour: Naginata and Katana.
Options:
May be equipped with Heavy armour (+2 pts/modell).
May be equipped with Sashimono (+0,5 pts/modell).
Upgrade one Warrior Monk to a Musician for +5 pts.
Promote one Warrior Monk to a Priest for +15 pts.
If the Shei contains a Priest, they may carry a Buddist Symbol for +15 pts. If they do, they will count as a Special instead of Core.
Special rules: Buddist followers.

0-1 Yamabushi (Scout warrior monks)
Warrior Monk
M 4
WS 4
BS 4
S 3
T 4
W 1
I 4
A 1
Ld 8
Priest
M 4
WS 4
BS 4
S 3
T 4
W 1
I 4
A 3
Ld 8
Ninja
M 5
WS 5
BS 5
S 3
T 3
W 1
I 5
A 2
Ld 9
Unit size: 5-15.
Weapons and armour: Naginata, Katana, Hankyu and Light armour.
Options:
May be upgraded to Miko Warrior Monks (+2 pts/modell).
Promote one Warrior Monk to a Priest for +15 pts.
Promote one Warrior Monk to a Ninja for +15 pts.
Character: A Ninja is equipped with 2 Handclaws and Shuriken. The Ninjacan exchange his Handclaws for a pair of Kusarigama (+4 pts).
Special rules: Buddist followers, Miko Warrior Monks, Skirmishers, Scout.

Rnin (Outcast samurais, bandits)
Samurai
M 4
WS 4
BS 4
S 3
T 3
W 1
I 4
A 2
Ld 7
Unit size: 10-15.
Weapons and armour: Daisho and Heavy armour.
Options:
Any Samurai may be equipped with a Naginata (+2 pts/modell), a Kusarigama (+3 pts/modell), a Bo (+1 pts/modell), a Yari (+1 pts/modell), or a Maskari (+3 pts/modell). A mix of weaponsin the unit is allowed.
Any modell may, but not all have to, be equipped with a Hankyu (+2 pts/modell).
Special rules: Samurai, Skirmishers.

Samurai Cavalary
Samurai
M 4
WS 4
BS 4
S 3
T 3
W 1
I 4
A 2
Ld 8
Horse
M 8
WS 2
BS 0
S 3
T 3
W 1
I 3
A 1
Ld 5
Unit size: 5-15.
Weapons and armour: Tachi, Daisho and Heavy amrour. Mounted on horses.
Options:
May be equipped with a Yari (+3 pts/modell), a Hankyu (+2 pts/modell), or both (+7 pts/modell).
May be equipped with Sashimono (+1 pts/modell).
Upgrade one Samurai to Musician +5 pts.
Special rules: Samurai, Fast Cavalary.

Weapons:
Katana (Sword):
Attacks from a Katana count as Armour Piercing.
Daisho (Sword and dagger):
Contains a Katana and a Wakizashi. Gives the wearer the Armour Piercing ability. May be used offensive or defensive. Offensive it counts as two handweapons. Defensive it grants the wearer +2 armour save, but you lose teh Armour Piercing. May not be used will mounted.
Yari (Spear):
Yari counts as Spears for footsoldiers. But the first round where the enemy charged the combat will be fought as if it was a ordinary round, in Initiative order. A Yari also gives +1 S against monted foes.
A Yari counts as a Lance for a mounted wielder.
Tachi (Cavalary sword):
A Tachi gives the wearer Armour Piercing. When he charges he gets +1 S on the first turn. He may negelect these advantages, and will count as being armed with a handweapon and a shield. May only be used by a mounted wielder.
Handclaws:
Count as two hand weapons.
Naginata (Halberd):
A Naginata must be used with two hands. The Naginata gives the wielder +1 S and teh attacks count as Armour Piercing.
Nodachi (Big sword):
A Nodachi must be used with two hands. The Nodachi also gives the wielder a -2 I, to a minimum of 2, but grants +2 S and Armour Piercing.
Kusarigama (Axe with a small flail):
Count as two handweapons. Also roll two attacks before anything happens, even before impact hits. For each attacks that hits, the target loses one attack to a minimum of 0.
Maskari (Big bad ass axe):
Count as a great weapon.
Arquebus (Gunpowder rifle):
Range: 24".
S: 4.
Special rules: Move-or-fire.
Hankyu (Shortbow):
Range: 18".
S: 3.
Daikyu (Longbow):
Range: 30".
S: 3.
Special rules: Volley fire.

Special Rules:
Buddist follower: Immune to fear and terror.
Miko Warrior Monks: Gets Magic Resistance 2.
Buddist banner: Unit becomes Immune to Phsycolegy(Spelling?).
Buddist symbol: Unit becomes Stubborn.
Respectful: Anyone with the Samurai special rules within 12" of the Hatamoto gains +1 Ld.
Volley fire: May fire the Daikyu in the volley mode. Has a guess range of 30-45", in any direction the player chooses. Use the small template and the unit with the most modells covered will be attacked. As many modells armed with a Daikyu that unit will get that many hits on a roll of 4+. The attacks are at S3 and the attacks will be with Armour Piercing.

More understandeble now??