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PaRaSiTe_X92
23-01-2008, 17:35
I've been reading through the Horus Heresy series books, and the sign of the aquila is often said to be made. But...How? Does anyone have any pictures or anything of how it looks?

Luthien
23-01-2008, 17:38
place both hands on your chest with the fingers pointing out in opposite directions (the wings), have the thumbs joined to represent the two heads.

Pulse
23-01-2008, 17:53
Luthien has got it spot on. :D

Baltar
23-01-2008, 18:00
I always thought you joined and interlocked your thumbs with the palms of your hands turned inwards...I actually believe that that is the correct way.

CELS
23-01-2008, 18:16
Of course, GW would say that it depends on location in the Imperium and all that crap, but I also seem to remember it as Baltar does.

PaRaSiTe_X92
23-01-2008, 19:02
Anyone got some pictures? A picture says a thousand words, and I doubt anyone wants to write a thousand words on the sign of the aquila.

Are the hands parallel to the floor, or at an angle? What about the thumbs?

Chaplain of Chaos
23-01-2008, 19:07
it's layed across your chest palms towards you, I actually find this represented consistently across fluff.

Thumbs interlocked with each thumb pointed in a diffrent direction representing the heads of the eagles watching all directions.

Chaplain Dionitas
23-01-2008, 19:07
This has been posted before and someone posted a pic.

The palms of your hands are on your chest.One hand crosses over the other at the wrist

Bregalad
23-01-2008, 20:09
YOur search fu is weak.
Go to google, type "Sign of the Aquila", take the first hit, scroll down and you will find this pic:
http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/9055/69431745sc1.jpg
Personally I would bow the thumbs a bit more than on the pic, like the said eagle heads.

CELS
23-01-2008, 20:13
Note the long, dirty fingernails as well. Haha, I love wargamers :D

Mad Jack Deacon
23-01-2008, 20:14
Also if you check in Codex: Necrons, you'll see a piece of art accompanying the Adept Cortswain story. In the image, there is a techpriest of Mars with is hands folded in the Sign of the Aquila.

MrBigMr
23-01-2008, 21:07
Of course, GW would say that it depends on location in the Imperium and all that crap, but I also seem to remember it as Baltar does.
Why not? I mean, there are little variations in military salute around the world:

A common military hand salute consists of raising the right hand, held flat, to the right eyebrow. In the United States, the hand is slightly canted forward, as if shading the eyes so that the palm is not visible to the one being saluted. This salute is based on the British naval salute of the Royal Navy, which is still in use. The British military salute, used by the British Army, Royal Marines, Royal Air Force and the armed services of many of the current and former British colonies in the Commonwealth, is similar, except that the hand is turned so the palm is visible to the person receiving it, and is only used if the person saluting is wearing headgear. When performing a British salute the general method is the right arm is lifted for the brow via a long, full extended cicular motion, however to end the salute there is a simple 'snap' down and the hand is placed back into the attention position, this is commonly known as 'long way up, short way down'. The French Army salute is almost identical to the British Army's. The Republic of Korea Army uses a salute similar to the United States military salute. The customary salute in the Polish Armed Forces is the two-fingers salute, a variation of the British military salute with only two fingers extended. In the Russian military, the right hand, palm down, is brought to the right temple, almost, but not quite, touching; the head has to be covered.

In the U.S. Air Force, U.S. Navy, Marine Corps, U.S. Coast Guard, and each of the British Armed Forces, hand salutes are only given when a cover (protection for the head, usually a hat) is worn. The U.S. Army gives salutes both covered and uncovered. Saluting indoors is forbidden except when formally reporting to a superior officer or during an indoor ceremony.

...In Nelson's time, enlisted men saluted officers by touching a clenched fist to the brow.

Lastie
23-01-2008, 21:09
Not sure about spreading the fingers out so much. We're not making spider-shaped shadow puppets here. :p

CELS
23-01-2008, 21:18
Why not? I mean, there are little variations in military salute around the world:
Oh, I'm not disagreeing with the idea that there might be different ways of doing it. Just that it would be more interesting to apply some kind of history to it, as you have shown with the modern military salute. You can see the same thing in regards to the christian sign of the cross, which varies according to time, geographical locations, etc. So instead of simply saying "Every world does it different", it would have been nice to read "They did it like this during the Great Crusade, changed it to this after the Horus Heresy, started doing it like this in Ultima Segmentum, and members of the Ministorum did it like this after the Age of Apostasy".

Not really an objection, as much as a request ;)


Not sure about spreading the fingers out so much. We're not making spider-shaped shadow puppets here. :p
Well, the printed Aquila symbol tends to have feathers spread, just like eagle wings. Not sure if the Black Library novels mention the fingers, specifically. I think people understand that it's not to be a spider though. Or maybe people would flap their fingers like wings to show that it's an eagle and not a spider... hmm...

MrBigMr
23-01-2008, 21:47
Oh, I'm not disagreeing with the idea that there might be different ways of doing it. Just that it would be more interesting to apply some kind of history to it, as you have shown with the modern military salute. You can see the same thing in regards to the christian sign of the cross, which varies according to time, geographical locations, etc. So instead of simply saying "Every world does it different", it would have been nice to read "They did it like this during the Great Crusade, changed it to this after the Horus Heresy, started doing it like this in Ultima Segmentum, and members of the Ministorum did it like this after the Age of Apostasy".

Not really an objection, as much as a request ;)
Well, I think the point is: It has nothing to do with the game itself and if it doesn't help them sell stuff, it doesn't matter. Even all the BL novels are about combat and war and great victories for the Imperium.

I would really love to read a BL novel that didn't have combat in it. Why not write from the POV of a civilian? A non-human civilian would be even better? Something that would show things from a different angle and also give us an insight to the ordinary life of people.

40K is far from what GW tries to sell. It's like forming a picture of the world from the evening news. All they talk about is "war this" and "stock plummet that" and "death and sorrow and crap." But when you look out of your window, the world isn't as bad. Do you live in a world filled with nothing but people killing each other, losing all they have and living in pain?

...Um, what were we talking about again?

Baltar
23-01-2008, 21:50
I think you are right - a 40k book about the average everyday workings of life would be very interesting.

For some reason a lot of people have the impression that life doesn't go on as normal for the vast vast majority of the Imperium. I am pretty sure 99.9% of humanity just goes about its everyday life, watching TV, driving to work, picking up the kids from school, etc.

MrBigMr
23-01-2008, 22:00
Right.
At least every time I write some fanfic or something, I try to think about the everyday aspect of things. It's amazing how easy one gets acustomed to things. How often have you just sat on a box of live ammo, next to a jerry can of petrol and a box of smoke grenades while a squad is running around you firing live rounds at targets on a course? At first it's exiting, but in the ends it's just one more day before your service is over and you can go home.

So even if you ride in a battleship through the void of space, meet interesting and exotic cultures and exterminate them, doesn't mean you don't eat your food, go to sleep, do paperwork, go the bathroom or even have hots for the pretty boy in your barracks. When you have seen a warlord titan every single day for the past 150 years, you don't get as awed by it like you used to. You think the people at the Vatican get a religious boner every time the Pope passes them by?

CELS
23-01-2008, 22:08
Which begs the question; may we see some of your everyday 40k fanfic? There's not a lot of it.

Sorry for bringing the thread off-topic, by the way, but I do believe the original question has been answered :)

zoodog
23-01-2008, 22:20
Well, I think the point is: It has nothing to do with the game itself and if it doesn't help them sell stuff, it doesn't matter. Even all the BL novels are about combat and war and great victories for the Imperium.

I would really love to read a BL novel that didn't have combat in it. Why not write from the POV of a civilian? A non-human civilian would be even better? Something that would show things from a different angle and also give us an insight to the ordinary life of people.
...Um, what were we talking about again?

Have you forgotten "In the Grim Darkness of the Far Future There is Only War"

sorry couldn't resist

Pulse
23-01-2008, 22:24
I always thought you joined and interlocked your thumbs with the palms of your hands turned inwards...I actually believe that that is the correct way.
Luthien is still right, how can you muddle up something simple?

imperial_scholar
24-01-2008, 00:37
YOur search fu is weak.
Go to google, type "Sign of the Aquila", take the first hit, scroll down and you will find this pic:
http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/9055/69431745sc1.jpg
Personally I would bow the thumbs a bit more than on the pic, like the said eagle heads.

I kinda thought the fingers were together.
Also.. I think there was a hand sign that was a circle over (like the okay sign) the heart with the right hand. Or maybe its the nazi's... I get that an the imperium confused all the time.

MrBigMr
24-01-2008, 00:54
Which begs the question; may we see some of your everyday 40k fanfic? There's not a lot of it.
Um... Well... My sig does have the links, but BL inquisition took the novels (Slayers of Sorror and Black Hole Gun) down for the purpose of looking them through and seeing if there's something to be edited. Aka. censored. Some of the scenes get pretty racy.

If you're desperate, I could email you at least the first one (Slayers of Sorrow).


Sorry for bringing the thread off-topic, by the way, but I do believe the original question has been answered :)
It's all good until the mods find out. Then it's every man for himself.


Have you forgotten "In the Grim Darkness of the Far Future There is Only War"
That's just a marketing ploy. You think East-Germany was a "democrasy"? Or that China is a "people's republic"? There is only war because it's all that we are shown. Where's the love, GW, where's the love?

Too often there are scenes in BL novels that shine through their purpose of being nothing more than extra shaders for dark. Realism is sometimes far more grimmer than burning kittens to power star cruisers or using babies as warheads. Over the top things make you immune to them. It's like when I watched Elfen Lied for the first time. The bloodshed and mutilation didn't bother me, but when it was told that one of the characters ran from home because her father abused her, it felt far worse than all the exploding heads and weird voodoo crap.

You don't need all weird stuff to make it grim. Sitting in a trench for weeks, living in your own filth, lack of food and hygienia, constant presence of death, etc. are better mood setters than gibbering hordes of creatures from your nightmares with big maws and taloned claws.


Just my 2 eurocents.

icegreentea
24-01-2008, 01:09
I kinda thought the fingers were together.
Also.. I think there was a hand sign that was a circle over (like the okay sign) the heart with the right hand. Or maybe its the nazi's... I get that an the imperium confused all the time.

The old old salute (before the Great Crusade) was a clenched fist to the chest/heart. I don't recall the salute you're describing from any fluff that I've every read.

On that note, the Nazi salute (Hitler Salute) is a modified version of the roman salute, with the right arm held right out either parallel to the ground, or slightly raised, palm down. That salute has a lot of variations (there are a lot of photos of Germans/Italians really really raising their right arms, or where Hitler has the arm bent as if he were taking a oath).

I've seen some albanian friends make the sign of the aquila as kind of a national pride thing (Albanian emblem is a double eagle). They do it fingers touching/almost touching with thumbs interlocked.

Apocalypse
24-01-2008, 04:11
But do you guys know how the techpreists do the sign of the cog! Now that's a little tougher... heheh
BTW the pic of the aquila was spot-on! gj!

Progena
24-01-2008, 15:48
An eagle spreads its wings, not its feathers. Interlocked thumbs and fingers together.

I hardly think that the Aquila is a common military salute. What are you supposed to do with your lasgun when you need both hands to salute? You also put yourself in a very vulnerable position when you lay your hands across your chest. You're pretty much at the mercy of the person you salute.

Pulse
24-01-2008, 15:51
An eagle spreads its wings, not its feathers. Interlocked thumbs and fingers together.

Look at the end of the Eagles wings, it has spaced out feathers.

http://www.hickerphoto.com/data/media/161/fly-like-an-eagle_T5179.jpg

Thats the look the spread fingers give on the Aquilla.

Edit: Actually now i think about it, the Aquilla looks more Eagle like with the fingers closed. :p

Gazak Blacktoof
24-01-2008, 16:02
You also put yourself in a very vulnerable position when you lay your hands across your chest. You're pretty much at the mercy of the person you salute.

Nothing out of the ordinary in that respect. Kowtowing (touching your head to the ground) is a mark of respect that obviously leaves you at the mercy of the person you kowtow to.

Open palmed gestures are also used as a sign of friendship and openness- it shows that you aren't bearing weapons.

Making the sign of the aquilla might not be practical on the battlefield but in any other situation it would seem appropriate.

Chaplain Dionitas
24-01-2008, 16:58
The putting of the fist over the heart was common Roman military salute (The whole Hail Caesar thing) that was adopted by the nazis.


As for the salute, it derives from when Knights used to pass/greet each other on the road they'd lift their visor to one another to show who they were and that they meant no harm.

Sir Charles
24-01-2008, 19:33
As for the salute, it derives from when Knights used to pass/greet each other on the road they'd lift their visor to one another to show who they were and that they meant no harm. That sounds a bit apocraphyal(sp) I can't think of any situation where two knights would just happen to run into each other in full armour under peaceful circumstance. Further you would think their heraldry would be enough for identification, after all that is the purpose of heraldry. I suppose it could be conneced to jousting in someway, assuming that the knight/ visor bit is correct.

However, back on topic I thought that the sign of the Aquila was more of a religous thing like the sign of the cross then a millitary salute. If so the fact that it leaves one vulnerable could be appropriate, representing leaving oneself at the mercy of the God-Emperor or entrusting your deffense into his hands.

MrBigMr
24-01-2008, 20:00
That sounds a bit apocraphyal(sp) I can't think of any situation where two knights would just happen to run into each other in full armour under peaceful circumstance. Further you would think their heraldry would be enough for identification, after all that is the purpose of heraldry. I suppose it could be conneced to jousting in someway, assuming that the knight/ visor bit is correct.
Wiki sez:
Origin
The exact origin of this salute has been lost in time. One theory is that it came from Roman soldiers' shading their eyes from the intense light that was pretended to shine from the eyes of their superiors. Another theory is that it came from when men-at-arms wore armor--a friendly approach would include holding the reins of the horse with the left hand while raising the visor of the helmet with the right, so that one could be recognised. A third theory is that the salute, and the handshake, came from a way of showing that the right hand (the fighting hand) was not concealing a weapon.

The most widely accepted theory is that it evolved from the practice of men raising their hats in the presence of officers. Tipping one's hat on meeting a social superior was the normal civilian sign of respect at the time. Repeated hat-raising was impractical if heavy helmets were worn, so the gesture was stylised to a mere hand movement. It was also common for individuals who did not wear hats to "tug their forelock" in imitation of the gesture of tipping the hat.


However, back on topic I thought that the sign of the Aquila was more of a religous thing like the sign of the cross then a millitary salute. If so the fact that it leaves one vulnerable could be appropriate, representing leaving oneself at the mercy of the God-Emperor or entrusting your deffense into his hands.
I agree. It's not practical as a military salute and I don't remember any mentioning of it being used as such. A religious or deriving from a religious gesture seems right.