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sprugly
23-01-2008, 22:40
ok before the arguments start.

i have seen a couple of threads on here about 40k animated films. Some people have suggested an anime style for these while others have sided against it. I see the points of both views but this is not why i'm here.

What i'm here for is i'm wondering if anyone has ever seen any 40k models or artwork done with an anime style. Personally i haven't and i'd like to see how the 2 mixed.

so if anyone can trawl up pics they've seen or are better at drawing anime than me i'd like to see.

sprugly

Sergeant Uriel Ventris
23-01-2008, 22:42
I'm just going to sit back and subscribe to this thread so that I can witness the carnage-er, artwork.

Bookwrak
23-01-2008, 22:43
There is no single 'anime' style - it ranges the gamut from huge-eyed completly out of proportion bodies to completly realistic. In general, 40K strikes me as something that woulld be more appropriately suited by the latter.

Baltar
23-01-2008, 22:43
Honestly, I'd like to see any 40k cartoons done in WWII era rough animation

Anime is kind of meh for representing the 40k world. It is stylish and all, but I feel like 40k has more power the more realistic in terms of "look" you try and make it.

Feuermann
23-01-2008, 22:46
I want titans like anime mechas(remember to mazinger z, shin getter robo or evangelion) It would be fun ^^

Killgore
23-01-2008, 22:48
if anyone has watched the animatrix episode 'The Second Renaissance Part I & II' that is the type of animation id believe would suit 40k the best

no stupid over sized eyes, or ! * # symbols above characters heads or Cat ears

and because 40k is about apocalyptic WAR! there should be no scantly clad woman, unfortunatly for the cartoon perverts amongst you haha.

azimaith
23-01-2008, 22:52
if anyone has watched the animatrix episode 'The Second Renaissance Part I & II' that is the type of animation id believe would suit 40k the best

no stupid over sized eyes, or ! * # symbols above characters heads or Cat ears

Any sort of dark realistic style would work. 40k is not well suited to live action without a ridiculously huge budget.



and because 40k is about apocalyptic WAR! there should be no scantly clad woman, unfortunatly for the cartoon perverts amongst you haha.
Hah, I just played the soulstorm demo and categorically disagree. You have the dark eldars pimp mobile with the slave girls on it.

nurgle_boy
23-01-2008, 23:11
we can see here Osaka-san modeling the lastest RX78 battlesuit armour...
http://www.gundam.org/azumanga1yrwar/AZM_RX78GP03.gif
Or is she a stormboy?

Loota?

Either way, I think it would better suit a gritter style, although maybe with the detail put in that some Japanese animation studios go into, although without the whole BESM thing going on...

Clearly, from the Osaka image, you can see it would simply look balls...
So sorry Osaka-san...
http://www.anime-source.com/banzai/images/topcharacter/64osaka.jpg

No Warhammer 40k movie for you!

Outlaw289
23-01-2008, 23:14
If 40k was ever animated, it ought to look like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FS69fuCOhTM). Anything else is otaku nonsense

azimaith
23-01-2008, 23:21
Thats too clean cut and shiny to be 40k style. Thats not dark enough. Faces are too clean and perfect, eyes are too large.

RampagingRavener
23-01-2008, 23:22
If 40k was ever animated, it ought to look like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FS69fuCOhTM). Anything else is otaku nonsense

I'll see you, and raise you this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMdf5Pv4aVs) I personally wouldn't be opposed to an Anime 40k film, really, not all of it is "OMG that's soooo kawaii desu!!11!"

lord_blackfang
23-01-2008, 23:23
Check the Pretty Marines link in my sig.

Drogmir
23-01-2008, 23:25
If 40k was ever animated, it ought to look like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FS69fuCOhTM). Anything else is otaku nonsense

Very neat video

I wouldn't mind that at all.

Anime only annoys me because of how perverted some of it is, and how everyone is has white features even when they're not suppose to be .

Quentin
23-01-2008, 23:26
If 40k was ever animated, it ought to look like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FS69fuCOhTM). Anything else is otaku nonsense

That is in fact almost exactly the kind of animation I'd like to see in a 40K animated feature. The "War" sections are perfectly representative of the Imperial Guard.

Lastie
23-01-2008, 23:31
One of these days I'm going to make a thread on a popular anime forum concerning whether 'so-and-so anime' would make a good table-top boardgame, then sit back and watch the vast amount of anime fans stereotype table-top wargamers from anything to fat basement-dwelling individuals to people who decide everything by dice rolls.

Should be interesting, the geek hierarchy in action ...

Anyway ... every time this comes up, I'll say the same thing I always say - an animated 40K movie, regardless of what country the studio comes from (it won't matter, as GW will most likely insist on some control), is far more likely than a full-blown live action movie. It'll be cheaper, and easier to make.

And will probably end up looking cooler.

sprugly
23-01-2008, 23:45
lolz at the people who apparently failed to read the first three lines of my post, and cudos to everyone else!

much as i would love to start a stylistic argument about the finer points of animation vs anime i won't and i really don't want to. like Sergeant Uriel Ventris i've read it all before (not that it'll stop some people but hey i can try).

outlaw and rampaging ravener, love the vids. Seen em before but mucho mucho cool, and yeah i afree a 40k vid in these styles would be cool. Also brings the Disturbed, land of confusion vid to mind

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KW8DRSvEoQ

that one, love the song to!

Lord blackfang, those are just scary, lol

sprugly

dr.oetk3r
23-01-2008, 23:48
At 00:22 of that video there is a space marine rhino chassis tank, honest look!

Most Japanese cartoons suck. But if it looked like Ghost in the Shell or something of that nature it could work.

Grimtuff
24-01-2008, 00:09
http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79993&highlight=desu+brigade

Well, there's these abominations..... :rolleyes:

sprugly
24-01-2008, 00:15
wow...

er, they're certainly unique. er.. yeah.

Still i don't think it can be said that they prove 40k and anime mix.

not them.

wow...

sprugly

Xollob
24-01-2008, 00:18
I'll see you, and raise you this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMdf5Pv4aVs)

Impressive music video, no idea what the song was about and no doubt without the vid it would suck but never mind, no doubt when GW become rich enough they may allow WH40k films to be made, though bear in mind it took marvel and DC comics, pretty much 50 years befotre they started filming their characters

sprugly
24-01-2008, 00:19
oh, and the rhino chassis vehicle from land of confusion that someone pointed out. Looks pretty close to me

sorry to double post

sprugly

Grimtuff
24-01-2008, 00:31
One of these days I'm going to make a thread on a popular anime forum concerning whether 'so-and-so anime' would make a good table-top boardgame, then sit back and watch the vast amount of anime fans stereotype table-top wargamers from anything to fat basement-dwelling individuals to people who decide everything by dice rolls.

Should be interesting, the geek hierarchy in action ...


Find me one and i'll do it ;) :D

Cirrus the Blue
24-01-2008, 00:53
I'm a little amazed nobody's mentioned just how anime-mecha the Tau very much already are! :p

- Cirrus

imperial_scholar
24-01-2008, 01:07
Everyone mentions style.. but I remember that the Japanese mimic'd our cartoons and thus developed anime.

Either way... A 40k cartoon would be stellar!

kikkoman
24-01-2008, 01:36
Check the Pretty Marines link in my sig.

4chan's pretty marines attempted to be a parody of 40k, but... Blood Angels are exactly like that already. There's even a story of a dude going INSANE because his perfect sculpted features were mutilated by an ork.

and then he turned into an Angry Marine


Everyone mentions style.. but I remember that the Japanese mimic'd our cartoons and thus developed anime.

Either way... A 40k cartoon would be stellar!
They mimic'd n' learned, Japan has a good history of that. There's some saying like "fit the mold to break it"
You get a good one, show them Warhammer 40k artwork, and they will make it look EXACTLY like it.
They used to draw Batman, Gargoyles and all those Disney cartoons, they're actually good at sticking to the set artwork.


hmmm. Battle Angel Alita (Gunnm) is a manga series that was influenced by 2000AD, even has some homage designs. 40k is also heavily 2000AD influenced. Yukito Kishiro's style would work well.


and here's the familiar "DE should look like the silicon dudes in Blame!"

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2058/2215016219_cb1ca28a52.jpg


here's a gothic space ship launch from Vampire Hunter D

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1102/790867956_1a31d3a24f.jpg
Fitting for the Imperium yeah?

Don't know about the architecture, but characters are done by Yoshitaka Amano. He's also worked on Final fantasy titles (1-6 mainly).
Amano also does the Japanese language covers of Michael Moorcock's Elric/Eternal Champions series of books.

The first GW 'elves' were actually Jes Goodwin's designs for Elric miniatures. Jes Goodwin went on to design the Eldar.

Michael Moorcock considers Amano's rendition of Elric the best.

So you could say Final Fantasy has a three degree removal from 40k, Yoshitaka Amano close to 40k by two degrees. This doesn't have direct relation to 40k anime, but... it at least shows how close things are.

And yeah I'm the one that says Zentraedi=Eldar mecha :0

xibo
24-01-2008, 01:54
@sprugly: that video also shows why power fists hit last

@cirrus: that's because it's just obvious

how about this?
http://warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=33247&stc=1&d=1201138878
or this?
http://warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=33249&stc=1&d=1201138878
or about the (in)famous to hit rolls...
http://warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=33248&stc=1&d=1201138878

I have tons of those but next to all of them are 'deprecated' due to khorne prince of doom no longer is doomfull, khorne movie bersekers didn't get rules *pheew*, iron warriors don't get the amount of ordinance their fluff wants them to have any more, not to mention chaos cultists final disappearence, ork 6+ vehicle save against melta while tank shokking with front 10 open vehicle gone bai too, ... and so on ( now that i come to think on it, the old chaos codex was quite a cheesefest... maybe i should re-theme on necrons >.< ), ... and the worst is that a redshirt told me that nurgle cultists would not feel sorry for my inquisitor's ill tamagochi ( proxy for accolyte with power armour )

The Orange
24-01-2008, 02:14
I think most of those would count as "anime" in one way or another. At least they remind me of "anime". Personlly I'd like to see more in the style of the farseer and warp spider. BTW, none of it's my work.

kikkoman
24-01-2008, 02:22
become rich enough they may allow WH40K films to be made, though bear in mind it took marvel and DC comics, pretty much 50 years befotre they started filming their characters

more like it took 50 years for comics to die out in America for them to resort to live action movies.


The Farseer and Warp Spider are by Singaporean dudes from Imaginary Friends Studios. They have deviantart accounts.

My favorite is the one of the left, Happy New Year. That guy's Japanese and has some really nice WH figures. Don't have his website at the moment...

intellectawe
24-01-2008, 02:24
Anime 40k?

Slaneeshi tentacles + Japanimation?

Ok, the game just became 18+

Baaltharus
24-01-2008, 02:26
one of the left is amazing, great bit of artwork.

onnotangu
24-01-2008, 02:35
that is about all I could find offhand

xibo
24-01-2008, 02:43
...
My favorite is the one of the left, Happy New Year. That guy's Japanese and has some really nice WH figures. Don't have his website at the moment...
http://www.tcct.zaq.ne.jp/noharaya/

@onnotangu: the second from the left... i think it's not WH/40k... it lacks GW's iconography but has other iconography which is not by GW...

Captain Micha
24-01-2008, 02:57
more like it took 50 years for comics to die out in America for them to resort to live action movies.


The Farseer and Warp Spider are by Singaporean dudes from Imaginary Friends Studios. They have deviantart accounts.

My favorite is the one of the left, Happy New Year. That guy's Japanese and has some really nice WH figures. Don't have his website at the moment...

If they wouldn't butcher stories and characters *looking at you Marvel*

the comic industry is alive and well. Just one particular company within it is not.

The Orange
24-01-2008, 02:57
onnotangu, isn't the tyranid one on the right from GW? I could have sworn I've seen it in some GW product before.

xibo, thanks for the link, more good artwork to steal :evilgrin:

Drogmir
24-01-2008, 03:41
now that I think about it, wasn't rogue trader art very Judge Dredd like?

Imagine a 40K cartoon done in that way...

But if it was my choice I'd have it done by the guys who did Justice League Unlimited and the Star Wars : Clone Wars cartoons.

Better yet how about Live Action?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMXmLbyPeNw

TheOverlord
24-01-2008, 04:04
http://nachomon.deviantart.com/art/Iron-Dragons-Marine-color-64661733

This is awesome and win. Check out his other stuff, he's real good.

Cirrus the Blue
24-01-2008, 05:10
Everyone mentions style.. but I remember that the Japanese mimic'd our cartoons and thus developed anime.

Either way... A 40k cartoon would be stellar!

Actually, WE mimic'd THEM as they started the whole thing with comics long before any of us were so much as writing illustrated books. Did a whole thing on this in Japanese class a few years ago at college. Furthermore, the style of anime never was originally based on anything over here. :rolleyes: If you don't believe me, feel free to go around the net for it's history! I think it's under the 'history of manga' or something like that.. We quite literally copied them in this case, not the other way around. Basically, comics are about as American as Winnie the Pooh, or Superman, or Basketball, or HOCKEY!!! hahahaha :D *ehem* My point is that they're not by any means originally a domestic idea at that level.

- Cirrus

Drogmir
24-01-2008, 05:23
Actually, WE mimic'd THEM as they started the whole thing with comics long before any of us were so much as writing illustrated books. Did a whole thing on this in Japanese class a few years ago at college. Furthermore, the style of anime never was originally based on anything over here. :rolleyes: If you don't believe me, feel free to go around the net for it's history! I think it's under the 'history of manga' or something like that.. We quite literally copied them in this case, not the other way around. Basically, comics are about as American as Winnie the Pooh, or Superman, or Basketball, or HOCKEY!!! hahahaha :D *ehem* My point is that they're not by any means originally a domestic idea at that level.

- Cirrus

I don't think there's anything more American than a hot dog,Superman comic book, a28oz soda, a red neck with no shirt, a sports cap, and a giant American flag waving behind him :D

Hive Mind 33
24-01-2008, 05:34
What about the Dawn of War opening. It was pretty good.

Chaplain of Chaos
24-01-2008, 05:48
and because 40K is about apocalyptic WAR! there should be no scantly clad woman,

Don't remember who said this, but Death Cult assassins should be scantily clad as all hell, Sisters Repentia? yes please.

Cirrus the Blue
24-01-2008, 06:32
I don't think there's anything more American than a hot dog,Superman comic book, a28oz soda, a red neck with no shirt, a sports cap, and a giant American flag waving behind him :D

(my comment on Superman, Basketball, etc. was that it was originally Canadians who had the ideas for them instead of Americans. ;) )

- Cirrus

Cirrus the Blue
24-01-2008, 06:35
Don't remember who said this, but Death Cult assassins should be scantily clad as all hell, Sisters Repentia? yes please.

Just take a look at the Heavy Metal series!! :D Nuff said! lol

- Cirrus

Cagliostro
24-01-2008, 07:19
I'll see you, and raise you this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMdf5Pv4aVs) I personally wouldn't be opposed to an Anime 40k film, really, not all of it is "OMG that's soooo kawaii desu!!11!"
I am eternally indebted to you for exposing me to that slice of delicious awesome.

kikkoman
24-01-2008, 07:26
Actually, WE mimic'd THEM as they started the whole thing with comics long before any of us were so much as writing illustrated books. Did a whole thing on this in Japanese class a few years ago at college. Furthermore, the style of anime never was originally based on anything over here. :rolleyes: If you don't believe me, feel free to go around the net for it's history! I think it's under the 'history of manga' or something like that.. We quite literally copied them in this case, not the other way around. Basically, comics are about as American as Winnie the Pooh, or Superman, or Basketball, or HOCKEY!!! hahahaha :D *ehem* My point is that they're not by any means originally a domestic idea at that level.

- Cirrus

could you give an example?

Like, pairing of images+words? If so, yeah Chinese painting has done that for a looooong time. Unrolling croll paintings also add the dimension of the passage of time.

Or do you mean Hokusai's manga? Or the term manga that means something like 'doodles'?

Bookwrak
24-01-2008, 07:36
Impressive music video, no idea what the song was about and no doubt without the vid it would suck but never mind, no doubt when GW become rich enough they may allow WH40k films to be made, though bear in mind it took marvel and DC comics, pretty much 50 years befotre they started filming their characters

You really need to revise that argument, considering that the live action Spider-man TV series came out in 1978, the cartoon a decade earlier (only five years after the character was created), and the Superman cartoon premiered in 1941, the live action TV series following a decade later.

mistformsquirrel
24-01-2008, 07:53
There is no single 'anime' style - it ranges the gamut from huge-eyed completly out of proportion bodies to completly realistic. In general, 40K strikes me as something that woulld be more appropriately suited by the latter.

Agreed.

Look at something like Jin Roh or similar; and I think you'll get a better idea of what would look good as a 40k Anime style.

"Anime" is honestly a HUGELY broad term and is often inappropriately applied as "Something I don't like" by people that don't like the "Big eyes, small mouth" style. >.>

*edit*

Here's a vid: Jin Roh, to the song "Links" by Rammstein

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEHZERQCFtE

Moar!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ktgs4t07YBU - Ghost in the Shell

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9eiMLzaD_M - Battle Angel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVn_jIcyxsE - Berserk

Basically, stuff in this vein I feel is the more appropriate style for something 40k. Obviously with universe specific alterations - more scars, more bionics, etc...

But this gives you an idea of how it can be done.

BigRob
24-01-2008, 07:57
I'm thinking CGI myself for a full on movie, something like spirits within or Advent Children could make the 40K universe look good. Live action would be too expensive you'd end up with a huge CGI cost anyway. The technologys there now that wasn't een about when the ytried the bloodquest project a few years back. A mate at Uni doing CGI had a sequence he'd found with Imperial Gothic spaceships engaged in a free for all with the ships from Star Trek, Star Wars and the Galactica and it looked amazing!

Cartoon animation would be great for a childrens series aimed at younger kids to get them into the hobby. I've brought this up many times in the movie threads because I think it would rock! Something like Kal Jerico done in the style of TMNT, a range of tie in models and hook the kiddies in. You could even include space marines in an episode, theres an Imperial Fist recruitment chapel on Necromunda!

And whats with all the cartoon naked people? Maybe its just cos I'm married but why does an animated film have to feature perverse cartoon tentecles? Wait until the inevitable porn rip off of the main movie for that.

kikkoman
24-01-2008, 08:02
And whats with all the cartoon naked people? Maybe its just cos I'm married but why does an animated film have to feature perverse cartoon tentecles?

because all animators are perverts. Even Disney ones
especially the Loony Toons ones.

azimaith
24-01-2008, 08:03
Jin Roh is close to what I'd hope to see, but I'd hope for deeper more weathered facial features than there are in it.

Warp Zero
24-01-2008, 09:19
...so if anyone can trawl up pics they've seen or are better at drawing anime than me i'd like to see.

I'll try and give it a shot and draw an anime style 40k pic. They style I would try to emulate would be more in the area of Jin-roh, Blood the Last Vampire, and Vampire Hunter D. However, my schedule is very busy and you might not see one done for maybe even as long as a month or so. By then I'm sure this thread will have fallen to page 30 or whatever. But maybe I'll re-introduce the subject again when I get a drawing or two done. Not sure if I can pull it off, but it sounds like it would be fun to try. Plus, it keeps coming up so often, might as well work at getting some visuals done that shows what it might be like. If I can pull it off....if....


Honestly, I'd like to see any 40K cartoons done in WWII era rough animation

"Memories" : three short stories by three different directors.

Third one was "Cannon Fodder" About living in a large factory city where the day to day life of its citizens revolved around shooting artillery at another city (that the audience never sees).

Part 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phPZLjQY1g4

Part 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=km4CfotDszA

Part 3:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJ1kRz6omgI

I know its not in english, but please be patient and watch enough to get to the parts where they're showing enough of the work day of this city. If you're a fan of the Imperial life, you GOTTA WATCH this. Oh, and notice how there are no camera cuts during the whole thing. Although a few cheats if you know about animation. If you like it, there is an English version I'm sure you can order online somewhere.

Now, I wouldn't think that the way they draw people here is appropriate for 40k, but man...the tech is pretty right on. Combine this industry style with Jin-roh or Vampire Hunter D character design...and I'm there.

Cirrus the Blue
24-01-2008, 10:39
could you give an example?

Like, pairing of images+words? If so, yeah Chinese painting has done that for a looooong time. Unrolling croll paintings also add the dimension of the passage of time.

Or do you mean Hokusai's manga? Or the term manga that means something like 'doodles'?

Hokusai didn't invent manga, but he did heavily influence the 'style' of the stuff that's around today. There's a lot of places on the net that give a decent history to it, but honestly, you guys can believe whatever you like to for all I'm concerned. Anime was by no means influenced by North America is what my standpoints came out of in this thread and Americans didn't invent the comic book. North America isn't the center of the universe, people. I'm not going to get into a debate over this though of what I know to be true and accurate regarding the fact. I've said what I need to regarding the fact and that's all I'm going to say about it. If anybody wants more info about it, look it up on google. :)

- Cirrus

MrBigMr
24-01-2008, 11:48
Look at something like Jin Roh or similar; and I think you'll get a better idea of what would look good as a 40k Anime style.

"Anime" is honestly a HUGELY broad term and is often inappropriately applied as "Something I don't like" by people that don't like the "Big eyes, small mouth" style. >.>
Ah, I was just going to say Jin-Roh and Ghost in the Shell (aren't they from the same studio or something?) If there ever was to be a 40K animation, get those guys on it.

Come on, don't these guys look like stormtroopers in their "carapace"?
http://www.metroactive.com/papers/metro/07.26.01/gifs/jinroh-0130.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:JinRoh%281%29.jpg

And surely you can't compare this:
http://data82.sevenload.com/i/gp/qq/oo2kl70/die.jpg
With this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:JinRoh%283%29.jpg
Or this:
http://biphome.spray.se/masterlink/pics/scrsh/batou.jpg


Besides, the thing (movie, series, what ever) might get some far deeper shades from anime. Quite often those movies and series wade in the deep end of the emotional pool. Many just see the big eyes happy girls with panty shots, but saying that's what anime is, is like saying 40K is nothing but marines doing great and crushing all.

Cirrus the Blue
24-01-2008, 11:51
Appleseed, too! Or anything written by Masamune Shirow for that matter would work rather well. :) Big freaking guns and tanks and more guns and awesome cybernetics and guns!!! :D

Saw most of Appleseed the other week on TV and on one scene it had the main character sprinting across a wall away from a tank's belt fed gun and in the span of a second you could see like 100 bullet casings spilling out the side. It was AWESOME!!!!

- Cirrus

SV_Harlequin
24-01-2008, 11:58
You can't do 40k as any sort of Japanese or even American animation plain and simple. 40K has a uniquely British/English style and look to it. You would be detracting immensly from it.

xibo
24-01-2008, 12:07
...North America isn't the center of the universe, people....
Nicely said ... I would have mentioned it now anyway...
The times manga ( <- as we now it nowadays ) began to excist america ( <- read: the united states of them ) hardly had any influence on anything.

I think 'drawing style' of any 40k related stuff doesn't play the slightest role, because if I think about bad drawn comics, I can easily consider turn signal on a land raider to be far inferior to forementioned azumanga daiou, but tsoalr is still cooler because it's about 40k.

feelnopain666
24-01-2008, 12:28
For what i read so far, most of the people that post in here, doesn't have a clue about how vast its the anime culture. its not only big eyes and scantly clad woman. if you look carefully you'll find some great anime without any of that caracteristics (Last Exile, I wish you were here, etc). and if I can choose a studio to make a 40k anime my money is on Production I.G. (Appleseed, GITS, etc).

Vault-Dweller
24-01-2008, 12:40
NERDRAGE!!!

I agree with SV_Harlequin.

Bookwrak
24-01-2008, 16:17
You can't do 40k as any sort of Japanese or even American animation plain and simple. 40K has a uniquely British/English style and look to it. You would be detracting immensly from it.

Now that's just silly. What exactly is so 'unique' about it's British 'heritage' that makes it in possible to capture in a visual medium?

xibo
24-01-2008, 16:29
What's so uniquely british about Warhammer 40.000 anyway? Inches as measuring unit?

mistformsquirrel
24-01-2008, 16:36
Its pretty simple:

"I don't like anime - ergo, its impossible an anime version of 40k could be good in my mind, thus there MUST be something about 40k that makes it utterly impossible with the style of anime."

Despite the fact that that logic is... severely flawed.

I think people often get "visual style" and the concept of 'atmosphere' mixed up.

What I mean is - visual style affects atmosphere, but yet nothing - and I mean *nothing* is so tied to a *single* visual style that you cannot evoke that atmosphere in a different one.

You can tell most any story with most any kind of art style, so long as its done well and the atmosphere is done right.

I mean heck, I LOVE anime, and I'm not a big fan of western comics, but that's mostly for storytelling reasons. You could NOT tell me that you couldn't tell an anime story with a western style of drawing just as well though; so long as the artist in question evokes the proper atmosphere with it.

Then again, most people don't understand art very well; most see it as simply "This IS how something looks"; and can't envision the idea that art, no matter how realistic, is *always* a distortion - and thus when we change styles, we're merely changing the lens we view the object through.

I encountered a very similar set of biases on the Privateer Press boards recently - so its not at all unique to 40k.

The truth is - any art style can work for these types of things; it just depends on the atmosphere its used to evoke and the storytelling ability of the writer.

*edit*

And to this I will add - I'm not saying people who don't like anime aren't allowed their likes and dislikes. My sole purpose is to show the logic being used; and to explain that a lot of people's dislike of things often times goes well beyond simply "Its not my thing"; to a realm of "Its INCONCIEVABLE anything good could be done with THAT!".

That's the thing I'm getting at and pointing out; because thats the behind the scenes thought pattern going on here.

da_boy
24-01-2008, 17:18
I'm just going to sit back and subscribe to this thread so that I can witness the carnage-er, artwork.

the last vampire people could pull it off

Stella Cadente
24-01-2008, 17:39
What's so uniquely british about Warhammer 40.000 anyway?
maybe its because the Imperium enjoys bringing innocent planets under there oppression, by force or by intimadation, thats pretty similar to how Britain was

I enjoy anime, in fact I LOVE anime, I love its style, I love its pace, I love everything about it, 40k in Anime could be done VERY well, just look at Ghost in the shell for visuals, and Gunslinger girls to prove Dark Story lines can be done.
The "people" who think anime is all tits and underage girls are nothing more to me than ignorant idiots really, who sound like they have never watched a REAL anime there entire life, and have just decided to jump on the idiotic "stereotype" band wagon.

Warp Zero
24-01-2008, 18:08
You can't do 40k as any sort of Japanese or even American animation plain and simple. 40K has a uniquely British/English style and look to it. You would be detracting immensly from it.

Style isn't limited by nationality. Little info on how animation works. There's a person called the Lead Character Designer. He/She draws how the characters will look. Alongside the Producer and Director, they sit down and hammer out what style to use. Usually a lengthy process, depending on the schedule and budget. Once they settle on a style they like, that's the look the characters will have. Similarly, the Background Designer and Color Designer sit down with the Producer and Director as well. They plan out how the style of the environments will look like (in this case, industrial, gothic, epic...). They plan out how the color is to be used. Muted in some scenes, high contrast in other, brighter when we cut to an Eldar Craftworld, sickly when we see the lair of a Nurgle champion.

Some projects have a variation of artists from all over the world working on it. Korean storyboard supervisor, French background lead artist, New Zealand lead character designer....

To say an American or Japanese studio can't capture the look and feel of 40k because they're not British is silly. You hire a designer to create a look that captures the feel. Everyone keeps thinking they got to pick a TEAM to do a Warhammer 40k animation. Like, if you picked the guys that did Ninja Scroll or Jin-roh, it'll look EXACTLY like that youtube video we linked.

No. They look the way the look because the creators wanted it to look that way. These people can make it look differently if you hire them to do so. You can put together people from various places to create you perfect team.

You can look for a lead art designer that fits the look. A writer that can do the script. A Prop artist that can capture all the guns, tanks, and swords. A colorist that manipulate the way you feel when you see an environment. A music composer that can do the same for you ears. And.....lastly....an animation studio that can animate it. And some of the best, with the most experience in action, are....in.....Japan and Korea.

A good animation studio can make it look however you want it to look. Many shows in America are animated by the same Korean studio. You may watch Justice League Unlimited and love it, then watch Sponge Bob Square Pants and hate it. Then say, "I wish the people that animated Justice League Unlimited would do Sponge Bob Square Pants instead". Sometimes they are the same animators.

mistformsquirrel
24-01-2008, 18:33
Warp Zero, I bow to your infinite knowledge of things animated; most impressive!

Quentin
24-01-2008, 18:39
You're quite right Warp Zero, we have all been barking up the wrong tree here. You've put thing's into perspective.

As mentioned before in the thread, if you gave a Japanese/Korean/American animation studio the gothic artwork we see in the various codex's and artbook's, they'd be quite able in bringing that artwork to life in the form of animation.

MrBigMr
24-01-2008, 19:03
I mean heck, I LOVE anime, and I'm not a big fan of western comics, but that's mostly for storytelling reasons. You could NOT tell me that you couldn't tell an anime story with a western style of drawing just as well though; so long as the artist in question evokes the proper atmosphere with it.
Funny, while I've been a fan of anime for about 16 years (ever since I saw some at Hong Kong ages ago), I've never liked manga. I prefer western comics. And I don't mean Marvel or D.C. stuff. My favourites include Valérian and Laureline (http://www.bodoi.info/wp-content/images/BD103/CRITIQUES/VALERIAN/VALERIAN_ET_LAURELINE2.jpg), Canardo (http://jrobinss.free.fr/BD/canardo.jpg), Corto Maltese (http://www2.uol.com.br/10paezinhos/images/corto-maltese.jpg), I adore Halo Jones (http://www.thecomicfanatic.com/new%20images/leahhalo.jpg) and other 2000AD stuff.

When it comes to anime and hating it, it's amazing how some people have double standards. There is this Finnish comic series by Tove Jansson called Moomins (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moomin). This was later made into a TV series (and movies) in a Finnish-Japanese collaboration. I know people who hate anime, yet love the Moomins, which is basicly anime. It has all the same style and stuff that is characteristic to anime.


And to this I will add - I'm not saying people who don't like anime aren't allowed their likes and dislikes. My sole purpose is to show the logic being used; and to explain that a lot of people's dislike of things often times goes well beyond simply "Its not my thing"; to a realm of "Its INCONCIEVABLE anything good could be done with THAT!".
It's amazing when nerds and geeks start to quarrel. When you play with toy soldiers and try to promote an animated film of your toy soldiers, it seems a little silly to start whining about what other nerds are into. Come on, people, there's no denying it!

sprugly
24-01-2008, 19:19
wow the love/hate anime discusion returns. Although not as bad as some of the threads that've been and gone. and many people have managed to stay on topic and avoid the inevitable argument that follows.

@warp zero, i happen to agree with you wholeheartedly. and do you have a larger pic of your avatar because this seems to be just the thing i was origionally talking about. Look forward to seeing what you come up with. Please share it with us all when you can.

@the overlord, Love that guy! This is exactly what i was looking for and proves that 40k can look so cool in an anime style. I've downloaded like every pic he's got in his gallery!! Awsome! He wins so far (you win by proxy!)

keep up the good work people!!

and play nice!

sprugly

Reabe
24-01-2008, 19:42
maybe its because the Imperium enjoys bringing innocent planets under there oppression, by force or by intimadation, thats pretty similar to how Britain was

Well, personally, I was going to say that the sheer pessimism and dark situation of the Warhammer 40,000 universe is supplied by good-ol' British writing. What with the xenophobic fascists being the good guys, that any attempt at hope or understanding in the universe is (almost) universally thought to be pointless and that the very background story states that it's only a matter of time before all the races destroy each other. (Unless, I guess, the Emperor wakes up, or that God the Eldar are trying to make manifests or that, Ruinous Gods forbid, the Tau succeed with their Spread-the-love-and-Utilitarian-rule campaign.)

I mean, only living in perpetual rain and going through what is perhaps the worst school system in the world could generate the kind of person who would write that sort of thing. If you got an American to write it, no doubt it would end up with all the Space Marines being virtuous heroes, looking like Leonardo DiCapio to man.

Anyway, onto the subject of anime: Anime is more than the exaggerated body-proportions that most people worry about on here. Saying "no" to the idea with the reason that you don't want Rogul Dorn looking like Osaka is like saying that Warhammer 40,000 shouldn't be portrayed in western animation because you don't want Ursarkar E. Creed looking like Elmer Fudd. There's more than one type of style in anything, and "Anime" is pretty much a term which means anything "animated". It's just that us nerd use it to represent Japanese animation.

Also, what would be portrayed in the anime, anyway? What would you like to see? The Horus Heresy?

xibo
24-01-2008, 19:48
wow the love/hate anime discusion returns. Although not as bad as some of the threads that've been and gone. and many people have managed to stay on topic and avoid the inevitable argument that follows.

you should have written "please read OP post" to the title, and max-sized "please read" in the op post...

"anime" and ("WH")"40K" are the magic words that may never be concatenated in any way as they will cause flame without fail. especially from the 40k side. it's just ridiculous to me how people can flame that crazily, I mean I have only "nerdy" hobbies but no kind of nerd-community seems to hate the others so much as tabletoppers do... although if i come to think of it they(/you) most probably don't mean it like they(/you) say as this forums are just full of flaming/complaining/moaning about 40k being only cheese yet everyone likes it nevertheless.

EDIT:
@reabe:
The horus heresy is one of two events i would not like to see done by anyone other then GW. The other would be the vandire revolt.
One should either animate a given story ( read BL Literature ), as most of them are fine ( exceptions exist ). Or one should do his own stuff, but keeping in mind that e.g. valhalla is a bad place to make a 40k story as it's only about humans vs. green humanoid aliens there, nothing really 40k-ish, a.s.o...

@stella cadente:
then I think 40k is much more hmmm... scottish. It's where the english came, forced them to pay taxes to their king, forced them to worship their god, ... as 40k is about the ongoings on macragge, armaggeddon, cadia aso but not on terra.

Stella Cadente
24-01-2008, 19:50
Also, what would be portrayed in the anime, anyway? What would you like to see? The Horus Heresy?
ANYTHING without space marines, that would bore the pants off me

MrBigMr
24-01-2008, 20:06
I mean, only living in perpetual rain and going through what is perhaps the worst school system in the world could generate the kind of person who would write that sort of thing.
Doesn't top your country being nuked. Twice.

Go watch a few Takashi Miike or Takeshi Kitano movies and tell me there's nothing grim in them.


Anyway, onto the subject of anime: Anime is more than the exaggerated body-proportions that most people worry about on here. Saying "no" to the idea with the reason that you don't want Rogul Dorn looking like Osaka is like saying that Warhammer 40,000 shouldn't be portrayed in western animation because you don't want Ursarkar E. Creed looking like Elmer Fudd. There's more than one type of style in anything, and "Anime" is pretty much a term which means anything "animated". It's just that us nerd use it to represent Japanese animation.
I'm not against the idea of using western studio or anything, but asia treats animations far differently than the west. They also do it well with low cost. My suggestion would be something like what is done with the Simpsons. Yes, they're "made" in the good ol' US of A, but all the animation and coloring is done in Korea. I haven't notived any difference apart from smoother animation and sharper quality.

So do a script, scenes and the art, ship it over and let the asian sweat shops do it.


But all this pro-anime talk from me doesn't mean I don't enjoy western animation either. I have plenty in my stocks as well and one of my favorites is Titan AE. That's pretty grim story to say the least. Hell, it starts with the Earth getting blown up.
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Essays/Drej.jpg
http://thecia.com.au/reviews/t/images/titan-a-e-10.jpg
http://thecia.com.au/reviews/t/images/titan-a-e-11.jpg

Quentin
24-01-2008, 20:08
Also, what would be portrayed in the anime, anyway? What would you like to see? The Horus Heresy?

I'd personally like to see a series concerning an Imperium Crusade like the Damocles Gulf campaign or perhaps the 13th Black Crusade.

mistformsquirrel
24-01-2008, 20:17
If I were to choose a situation...

Hmm...

I have to pick either A) The 13th Black Crusade or B) Armageddon.

Both get you loads of great "Every faction in the Imperium vs the Enemy" stuff...

So the real question is:

Do we prefer A) Orks, or B) Chaos?

I'm kinda leaning B; because Orks are hard to do justice imho. Making them both silly *AND* dangerous. Not that its not doable though; and it'd surely be awesome to watch!

Temprus
24-01-2008, 23:14
http://nachomon.deviantart.com/art/Iron-Dragons-Marine-color-64661733

This is awesome and win. Check out his other stuff, he's real good.

It looks just like the minis yet still has that Anime/Manga vibe. Me like. I think I could live with animation of this type even if it is kinda of too Timmversish for 40k. Then again, the Timmverse stated with the Dark Knight Batman who also is kinda darkish.

kikkoman
26-01-2008, 08:38
Hokusai didn't invent manga, but he did heavily influence the 'style' of the stuff that's around today. There's a lot of places on the net that give a decent history to it, but honestly, you guys can believe whatever you like to for all I'm concerned. Anime was by no means influenced by North America is what my standpoints came out of in this thread and Americans didn't invent the comic book. North America isn't the center of the universe, people. I'm not going to get into a debate over this though of what I know to be true and accurate regarding the fact. I've said what I need to regarding the fact and that's all I'm going to say about it. If anybody wants more info about it, look it up on google. :)


I'm not challenging you, I'm asking you for information more specific than 'google it'. I have done that, and get some websites, but the information you specifically talk about, it would be nice for you to show me where you got it, so your ideas can spread.


hmmm, if you want a GRIM DARK FUTURE story... then try Miyazaki, the Totoro guy. Mamoru Oshii, the guy who directed the ghost in the Shell movies says of him "he secretly wants to do dark moviesfull of blood, hahah"

his Nausicaa manga is pretty brutal. The fighting style is close to 40k, in that artillery and guns and bombs and flying fortresses are around, but there's also melee battles.
Story even involves a psychic God Emperor, archaeotech and nobody understanding ancient technology.

http://www.garenewing.co.uk/webbledegook/imagebank/nausicaa.jpg

as for styles... well Japanese have been doing lots of good American cartoons in the 80's and early 90's

pretty much all the best looking episodes of Batman, Gargoyles, Tail Spin, Thunder Cats, etc. done by Japanese studios. They can stick to American character design better than Americans.

logosloki
26-01-2008, 10:40
You can't do 40k as any sort of Japanese or even American animation plain and simple. 40K has a uniquely British/English style and look to it. You would be detracting immensly from it.

great, now all I can think of is Brian Blessed in Terminator armour. from Blackadder

Another style to consider would be http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetes
I'm biased though, I like the animated dramas.

Stella Cadente
26-01-2008, 10:43
great, now all I can think of is Brian Blessed in Terminator armour.
with a Hammer of course
GORDONS ALIVE!?!?!?!

Johnnyfrej
28-01-2008, 02:35
How about a Warhammer 40k anime but based off the art style of Hellsing? It's a perfect match imo.

-Private Jon

Xgladar
28-01-2008, 03:48
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/5820/120138849469rc6.jpg

What is this? anime in my warhammer?

dr.oetk3r
28-01-2008, 04:24
You can't do 40K as any sort of Japanese or even American animation plain and simple. 40K has a uniquely British/English style and look to it. You would be detracting immensly from it.

Quoted for extreme truth.

Japanese cartoons looks like crap and the people in it are very deformed.

Warp Zero
28-01-2008, 04:29
You can't do 40K as any sort of Japanese or even American animation plain and simple. 40K has a uniquely British/English style and look to it. You would be detracting immensly from it.



Quoted for extreme truth.

Japanese cartoons looks like crap and the people in it are very deformed.

Not too bad. It went 4 pages until one of these posts showed up. Usually we get it on the first page. ;)

By using dr.oetk3r's method of judging animation, then we could only deduce that a Warhammer 40k animated show would look like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgpMBU0jZGQ&feature=related

This was a British cartoon. So, obviously this is what Warhammer 40k would look like if the Brits did it! Yeah...uh...that's it!

Stella Cadente
28-01-2008, 05:03
Quoted for extreme truth.

Japanese cartoons looks like crap and the people in it are very deformed.
how much thought went into your posts today then???, I would guess.....0

Not too bad. It went 4 pages until one of these posts showed up. Usually we get it on the first page. ;)

By using dr.oetk3r's method of judging animation, then we could only deduce that a Warhammer 40k animated show would look like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgpMBU0jZGQ&feature=related

This was a British cartoon. So, obviously this is what Warhammer 40k would look like if the Brits did it! Yeah...uh...that's it!
so if we compare that to say.........this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7urZe6r5CGU
and this....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiLDT7Jehm8
.................yeah the british one is FAAAAAAAAAAR superior:rolleyes:
very good judgement Dr

azimaith
28-01-2008, 05:08
Because comparing the two different styles, budgets, and times they were made is totally irrelevent.

I can do that too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyGvGMa2RFg

Now which is better.

jhneoh
28-01-2008, 05:28
Because comparing the two different styles, budgets, and times they were made is totally irrelevent.

I can do that too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyGvGMa2RFg

Now which is better.

Neither, they all pale in comparison to this :D :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrdFiUGgPTg

Stella Cadente
28-01-2008, 05:31
Neither, they all pale in comparison to this :D :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrdFiUGgPTg
no no no no no, not with top gun music yah fool:p
this is what you want
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYMpj-GK7sI
or
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvJaGP26ngk&feature=related

but of course this is still NOTHING compared to what the british can do:p
HAHAHAHAHAHA

jhneoh
28-01-2008, 05:33
On another note, the Appleseed Movie style would suit the 40k universe well IMO :

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ui_3LHfvLWk&feature=related

Love the tank with the giant AssCan

dr.oetk3r
28-01-2008, 05:33
Not too bad. It went 4 pages until one of these posts showed up. Usually we get it on the first page. ;)

By using dr.oetk3r's method of judging animation, then we could only deduce that a Warhammer 40k animated show would look like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgpMBU0jZGQ&feature=related

This was a British cartoon. So, obviously this is what Warhammer 40k would look like if the Brits did it! Yeah...uh...that's it!

Uhhh, right... Did i ever say it should look like that? Nope.

This is not a valid argument against my point of view. Ghost in the shell was a full length feature movie. The British cartoon was well, a piece of crap with not nearly as much time or effort put into it. I would never want a 40k movie done in THAT style.



"Nayghh Eaahh, Thish wash a Japanees Kartoohn! Sho Obvioushly this ish what aii 40k Moovie would Look liek if the Japeeesh did it, yeah!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyGvGMa2RFg

:eyebrows:, same logic mate, same logic.

Stella Cadente
28-01-2008, 05:36
This is not a valid argument against my point of view. Ghost in the shell was a full length feature movie.
well I could always show Ghost in the Shell Stand Alone complex, thats NOT a feature length movie and actually looks FAR better to the Old movie

so it being a movie makes 0 difference

azimaith
28-01-2008, 05:39
Appleseeds eyes are too large.
You need more grim less clean cut features and darker features.

Appleseed is well suited to its matrixy style fantasty, but thats not the style of fighting that goes on generally, even with eldar from what I understand.

I've yet to see an anime quite capture the darknesses needed to really show the 41st millenium. If I can't see lines ingrained into faces then its not really quite right in my opinion.

The point is you can't compare a public access cartoon with a high budget one and attribute that to their original design.

LeggoMeEggo
28-01-2008, 05:40
Uhhh, right... Did i ever say it should look like that? Nope.

This is not a valid argument against my point of view. Ghost in the shell was a full length feature movie. The British cartoon was well, a piece of crap with not nearly as much time or effort put into it. I would never want a 40k movie done in THAT style.



"Nayghh Eaahh, Thish wash a Japanees Kartoohn! Sho Obvioushly this ish what aii 40k Moovie would Look liek if the Japeeesh did it, yeah!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyGvGMa2RFg

:eyebrows:, same logic mate, same logic.


QFT nuff said...

dr.oetk3r
28-01-2008, 05:42
You're comparing an old low budget british cartoon to a relatively modern high quality Japanese cartoon. It does make a difference.

jhneoh
28-01-2008, 05:43
Appleseeds eyes are too large.
You need more grim less clean cut features and darker features.

Appleseed is well suited to its matrixy style fantasty, but thats not the style of fighting that goes on generally, even with eldar from what I understand.

I've yet to see an anime quite capture the darknesses needed to really show the 41st millenium. If I can't see lines ingrained into faces then its not really quite right in my opinion.

True its a bit too shiny and glossy, needs to be gritter and grimier, but the vehicles are great, that tank wouldnt look out of place in a SM/IG army.

azimaith
28-01-2008, 05:46
Actually I do think that tank would look rather out of place in the imperial guard army. Not so much in the SM, but still somewhat out of place. They tend to go toward blocky shapes with hard angles and not many fancy gubbins on them.

I don't remember where I saw it, but I had this picture of a comissasr at one time and it was perfect. His face showed the weathering of years and years of combat, it was deeply grained with lines, from his eyes he looked quite weary with existance all together. Thats the kind of faces you need for a battle hardened warrior. You shouldn't have supermodel faces and people who look like they've just thrown on fresh make up for a news cast.

You need to see the lines, scars, imperfections. The dirt and grit, to show the weight of the abysmal time they exist in.

LeggoMeEggo
28-01-2008, 05:46
IMO i think anime is really really really bad. it is a very bad job... no but seriously for example look at warp zero's picture of the anime girl one of her boobs is bigger than her head wtf is up with that?

dr.oetk3r
28-01-2008, 05:47
IMO i think anime is really really really bad. it is a very bad job... no but seriously for example look at warp zero's picture of the anime girl one of her boobs is bigger than her head wtf is up with that?

So true, what is up with that? Come clean now...

Hive Mind 33
28-01-2008, 06:16
http://youtube.com/watch?v=UID6LEzvRRo

anybody but me think this is a good way to do it?
or
http://youtube.com/watch?v=dJ7x9ieXr5M&feature=related

logosloki
28-01-2008, 06:20
I do believe that people are still looking at the wrong anime or forget that you do actually brief an art studio on the particular style you are after. What would actually happen is that you would look for the closest fit (example say only!) say ghost in the shell, then you would ask that studio if they could go easy on the breasts, make the eyes closer to real and grittify. I pick ghost in the shell since in their series they use a mixture of RL, CGI and Animation.

Though I will agree, comparing big budget to local access is just bad sportsmanship. Its like manchester united playing against your local school.

Stella Cadente
28-01-2008, 06:21
IMO i think anime is really really really bad. it is a very bad job... no but seriously for example look at warp zero's picture of the anime girl one of her boobs is bigger than her head wtf is up with that?
sounds like your just trolling really to get all the people who like anime to start an argument
also your example is 1 picture.....*applauds your brilliantness* yes that 1 picture is the perfect example to go by for all anime, I bow to your decision:rolleyes:

azimaith
28-01-2008, 06:25
I do believe that people are still looking at the wrong anime or forget that you do actually brief an art studio on the particular style you are after. What would actually happen is that you would look for the closest fit (example say only!) say ghost in the shell, then you would ask that studio if they could go easy on the breasts, make the eyes closer to real and grittify. I pick ghost in the shell since in their series they use a mixture of RL, CGI and Animation.

Though I will agree, comparing big budget to local access is just bad sportsmanship. Its like manchester united playing against your local school.
Well you brief any studio you go to, american, japanese, whatever. Part of the point is that what we call anime is not the same thing as animation made in japan. Colloquially in the states anime generally refers tot he BESM style of artwork you see so often. Granted, even US studios are moving toward that style for alot of things.

Since there isn't any 40k animation of any sort we can only really go comparing them to existing ones. I always liked the style of art in "Priest" (Which isn't animation, but a comic book, or whatever you want to call it. Its from a Korean artist I think. Add in that kind of heavy facial detail with a less stylized artwork and you'd have a good mix.

Darkseer
28-01-2008, 06:29
How about a style no one has looked at thus far?

I'd imagine it similar to Aerion The Faithful's artwork:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=9LSn0L50EgM

azimaith
28-01-2008, 06:45
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sL_TWg0ssys
You'll see some of "Priests" artwork in here. You'll see the heavy detail on the characters faces.

Especially when you look at the oil work and covers.


Look at 2:46
1:51
:04
:17

:23

Those all give you a bit of an idea of how the characters are very dark, shaded, and with alot of wear to faces.

Lars Porsenna
28-01-2008, 06:48
Neither, they all pale in comparison to this :D :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrdFiUGgPTg

Good stuff! Too bad those F14s are now saucepans and razor blades...

While the Macross franchise is mostly goodness...we got Macross 7 which was such a huge disappointment IMHO...

Damon.

Stella Cadente
28-01-2008, 06:58
http://youtube.com/watch?v=9LSn0L50EgM
it should NEVER look like that, its basically Samurai Jack with a lightsaber, 40k should not be a Cartoon for Cartoon Network/Nickalodean (however its spelt)

Warp Zero
28-01-2008, 07:07
IMO i think anime is really really really bad. it is a very bad job... no but seriously for example look at warp zero's picture of the anime girl one of her boobs is bigger than her head wtf is up with that?



I don't know. You tell me.

First of all. That pic is not anime. Second, her breast plate armor doesn't have any single breast size that is bigger than her head. Go ahead and trace it on the screen if you want. Trace a boob....move it up to her head....compare. By the way, her head starts at the top of her hair and goes to her chin.

Oh and third, what does this have to do with the discussion? :confused:



So true, what is up with that? Come clean now...

You want me to draw smaller boobs? :eyebrows:



Uhhh, right... Did i ever say it should look like that? Nope.

This is not a valid argument against my point of view. Ghost in the shell was a full length feature movie. The British cartoon was well, a piece of crap with not nearly as much time or effort put into it. I would never want a 40k movie done in THAT style.



"Nayghh Eaahh, Thish wash a Japanees Kartoohn! Sho Obvioushly this ish what aii 40k Moovie would Look liek if the Japeeesh did it, yeah!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyGvGMa2RFg

:eyebrows:, same logic mate, same logic.

Alright, let's re-cap what has been said.


You can't do 40K as any sort of Japanese or even American animation plain and simple. 40K has a uniquely British/English style and look to it. You would be detracting immensly from it.

Which is not a bad statement to make by the way. I can see his point of view. I added onto it later by talking about how animation art teams work. See one of my previous posts.

Then, in respons the SV_Harlequin's post, you said:


Quoted for extreme truth.

Japanese cartoons looks like crap and the people in it are very deformed.

Which means:
1.) you agree with SV_Harlequin that it should be British not Japanese or American.

2.) Japanese cartoons (all of them) look like crap and the people in it are very deformed.

Now, I'll agree that there are a ton of Japanese cartoons/animated shows that indeed look like crap. There's a fact that isn't in doubt. But that's not a trait exclusive to Japanese cartoons. There are a lot of crap things from all countries. From a lot of art mediums. Music, live action film, stage plays, and yes....animation.

But saying that ALL Japanese cartoons look like crap is a really narrow view. Its of my opinion that you haven't seen or don't realize what a Japanese studio can do. Thus, you're judgement must be only from your limited experience.

My counter-argument is sarcastically pretending to have the same narrow view, but this time applied to the British animation studios. Having only seen this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgpMB...eature=related

With this small fraction of what has come out of Britain, I pretend to foolishly believe that that's how a Warhammer 40k animated movie would look like. Obviously a silly notion. But that's my point. I'm saying that this is just as silly as you thinking a Japanese studio couldn't animate a 40k movie because you've only seen a little here or a little there.

So your retort was to do write this?



This is not a valid argument against my point of view. Ghost in the shell was a full length feature movie. The British cartoon was well, a piece of crap with not nearly as much time or effort put into it. I would never want a 40k movie done in THAT style.


"Nayghh Eaahh, Thish wash a Japanees Kartoohn! Sho Obvioushly this ish what aii 40k Moovie would Look liek if the Japeeesh did it, yeah!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyGvGMa2RFg

You're using the same style of argument back at me? Of course its silly. I know, I did it first.

If you're saying a British animation studio can nail the look and feel of Warhammer 40k, then show me. Throw up a clip. Link one.

And while I wait for you to do that, let me repeat something I said on Page 4. Since I gotta feeling you didn't read it.


Style isn't limited by nationality. Little info on how animation works. There's a person called the Lead Character Designer. He/She draws how the characters will look. Alongside the Producer and Director, they sit down and hammer out what style to use. Usually a lengthy process, depending on the schedule and budget. Once they settle on a style they like, that's the look the characters will have. Similarly, the Background Designer and Color Designer sit down with the Producer and Director as well. They plan out how the style of the environments will look like (in this case, industrial, gothic, epic...). They plan out how the color is to be used. Muted in some scenes, high contrast in other, brighter when we cut to an Eldar Craftworld, sickly when we see the lair of a Nurgle champion.

Some projects have a variation of artists from all over the world working on it. Korean storyboard supervisor, French background lead artist, New Zealand lead character designer....

To say an American or Japanese studio can't capture the look and feel of 40k because they're not British is silly. You hire a designer to create a look that captures the feel. Everyone keeps thinking they got to pick a TEAM to do a Warhammer 40k animation. Like, if you picked the guys that did Ninja Scroll or Jin-roh, it'll look EXACTLY like that youtube video we linked.

No. They look the way the look because the creators wanted it to look that way. These people can make it look differently if you hire them to do so. You can put together people from various places to create you perfect team.

You can look for a lead art designer that fits the look. A writer that can do the script. A Prop artist that can capture all the guns, tanks, and swords. A colorist that manipulate the way you feel when you see an environment. A music composer that can do the same for you ears. And.....lastly....an animation studio that can animate it. And some of the best, with the most experience in action, are....in.....Japan and Korea.

A good animation studio can make it look however you want it to look. Many shows in America are animated by the same Korean studio. You may watch Justice League Unlimited and love it, then watch Sponge Bob Square Pants and hate it. Then say, "I wish the people that animated Justice League Unlimited would do Sponge Bob Square Pants instead". Sometimes they are the same animators.

BTW, I think there probably is a British studio somewhere that could do it an awesome 40k animated movie. I just don't know of one off the top of my head. So for now, my instinct is to go with an established Japanese studio, whose work I've seen.





Because comparing the two different styles, budgets, and times they were made is totally irrelevent.

I can do that too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyGvGMa2RFg

Now which is better.

Oh I agree. It is totally irrelevant. But I think your misunderstoon my post...perhaps. I was trying to communicate to dr.oetk3r that comparing what he's seen off of youtube or adult swim on Cartoon Network is also irrelevant.


Appleseeds eyes are too large.
You need more grim less clean cut features and darker features.

Appleseed is well suited to its matrixy style fantasty, but thats not the style of fighting that goes on generally, even with eldar from what I understand.

I agree.



Actually I do think that tank would look rather out of place in the imperial guard army. Not so much in the SM, but still somewhat out of place. They tend to go toward blocky shapes with hard angles and not many fancy gubbins on them.

I agree again.

But I still believe a Japanese anime studio would be the best choice for an animated 40k dvd series or movie. Some of you are thinking, "What? We say Ghost in the Shell and Appleseed don't fit 40k, you agree with us....and you still say Japanese anime would be good for it?"

Again, I direct you to my post on Page 4. Which has been copied and re-pasted here in the middle of this post. Just because a Japanese studio animated it doesn't mean we have to use the EXACT art and writing team from Ghost in the Shell or Appleseed, or whatever.

I'll say this again. If you are the guy producing the show and funding it, you can PICK WHOMEVER YOU WANT to design the look of it. We can get a team of people who are good at doing clean line animated realistic models and have them work with Paul Dainton and Karl Kopinski (the guys from GW). [much like how John Howe and Alan Lee helped shepard the look of LotR for Peter Jackson's art team] They can make ...what they call "Model Sheets" that represent 40k in an awesome and accurate way. Then we can give them to a kick a$$ Japanese studio like Production I.G. or Madhouse to animate it.

So please stop with all this Japanese suck, Americans suck, so and so suck. It's silly. There are awesome artists from all over the world. Anyone who leads the project (the Producer), can hire whomever is best for the job.

Personally, my dream team would be:
-British Writer
-Character designer from "Memories: Magnetic Rose" or "Vampire Hunter D" being supervised and corrected by Paul Dainton and Karl Kopinski.
-American Storyboard artists
-Japanese animators & Background artists
-Music by...hmm...you guys suggest something.

But hey, that's me.


Since there isn't any 40K animation of any sort we can only really go comparing them to existing ones. I always liked the style of art in "Priest" (Which isn't animation, but a comic book, or whatever you want to call it. Its from a Korean artist I think. Add in that kind of heavy facial detail with a less stylized artwork and you'd have a good mix.

I like the "Priest" style. But ...personally, I don't think it fits 40k. This is a good example how different people have different approaches. It does seem near impossible to satisfy everyone eh? I feel bad for guys who pick up a beloved franchise and get blasted by fans for not doing it "their way". I'm actually pretty relaxed about interpretations. It just depends on how far a person strays from the original material. Stray a little, no big deal. Stray a lot? Ugh!

Anyways...


Okay, you now may resume flaming me. :(

Lars Porsenna
28-01-2008, 07:22
I don't know. You tell me.
-Music by...hmm...you guys suggest something.


Hammerfall!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OrtkoXe198

Damon.

azimaith
28-01-2008, 07:23
Oh I agree. It is totally irrelevant. But I think your misunderstoon my post...perhaps. I was trying to communicate to dr.oetk3r that comparing what he's seen off of youtube or adult swim on Cartoon Network is also irrelevant.

Actually I started on stellas post so I didn't even see yours. We are in agreement. Shame on me for not starting at the source though :P



I agree.

It does provide a good starting "heres some of the stuff we can do" though.
Overall I tend to find myself finding the environment looking correct and the characters not quite right.



I agree again.

But I still believe a Japanese anime studio would be the best choice for an animated 40k dvd series or movie. Some of you are thinking, "What? We say Ghost in the Shell and Appleseed don't fit 40k, you agree with us....and you still say Japanese anime would be good for it?"

Well they've been at making these sorts of animations for a while. Its taken a long time for animation to be mainstream thought of as "not just kids stuff" in the states and probably in many places in europe.



Again, I direct you to my post on Page 4. Which is copy and re-pasted here in the middle of the post. Just because the Japanese animated it doesn't mean we have to use the EXACT art and writing team from Ghost in the Shell or Appleseed, or whatever.

I do believe you carrying on a discussion with me thats advancing in a single post! I do that sometimes too :P.



I'll say this again. If you are the guy producing the show and funding it, you can PICK WHOMEVER YOU WANT to design the look of it. We can get a team of people who are good at doing clean line animated realistic models and have them work with Paul Dainton and Karl Kopinski (the guys from GW). [much like how John Howe and Alan Lee helped shepard the look of LotR for Peter Jackson's art team] They can make ...what they call "Model Sheets" that represent 40k in an awesome and accurate way. Then we can give them to a kick a$$ Japanese studio like Production I.G. or Madhouse to animate it.

Pretty much. The skill and experience is the important part of it.



So please stop with all this Japanese suck, Americans suck, so and so suck. It's silly. There are awesome artists from all over the world. Anyone who leads the project (the Producer), can hire whomever is best for the job.

Personally, my dream team would be:
-British Writer
-Character designer from "Memories: Magnetic Rose" or "Vampire Hunter D" being supervised and corrected by Paul Dainton and Karl Kopinski.
-American Storyboard artists
-Japanese animators & Background artists
-Music by...hmm...you guys suggest something.

But hey, that's me.
My biggest fear for just about any franchise with a shred or artistic integrity left (My favorite movie series Alien sold out in on Alien 4...)
Is that they'll say: "We need this more upbeat, more gratifying, more XTREME! Thats what kids are into right? Throw in some one liners for that space marine and super size that female guards chest to about 3 times the size. Whats this? The main character is shot and dying? Naw, change it so instead of shooting him it kills some random extra and he rides over him on his motorcycle while we play heavy metal."



I like the "Priest" style. But ...personally, I don't think it fits 40k. This is a good example how different people have different approaches. It does seem near impossible to satisfy everyone eh? I feel bad for guys who pick up a beloved franchise and get blasted by fans for not doing it "their way". I'm actually pretty relaxed about interpretations. It just depends on how far a person strays from the original material. Stray a little, no big deal. Stray a lot? Ugh!
Thats exactly how I was with Alien.

As for Priest, what I really found in priest wasn't so much the total style, but the emphasis on weathering and darkening things. If we were looking at a stylizised grim tale I'd go somewhat more like priest. Especially in a movie involving chaos and not tons of giant battles.

For battles with stuff like nids i'd probably go more modern to a somewhat sleeker look and a focus on lighting.

Orks you'd probably go slightly exaggerated, possibly even slightly cartoony for all characters involved as you just can't get that grim with the cockney accent on the boyz unless you pretty much leave it out, which is a big part of the charm. (well what passes for charm).
In fact i'd probably see different factions in very different styles. Space marines would be more of a priest style in facial features. Very dark and weathered, heavy lighting and feel while tau would be more like appleseed with their vibrant colors against a subdued background.

As for music, please please please no modern licensed songs. You need something moody and relatively *without* modernized lyrics for the gothic fantasty of 40k.
Hans Zimmer always seems to deliver.

Warp Zero
28-01-2008, 07:40
Actually I started on stellas post so I didn't even see yours. We are in agreement. Shame on me for not starting at the source though :P

Oh....I see what happened there. Heh heh....whew....I didn't want you getting pissed me all of a sudden. I was like, "what the?"




It does provide a good starting "heres some of the stuff we can do" though.
Overall I tend to find myself finding the environment looking correct and the characters not quite right.

I'm with you there. The problem with trying to convert anime haters is, you'll show them "Vampire Hunter D:Bloodlust" (for example) and they notice how the characters are really elongated and exaggerated. But what we meant we're like, "no, no, no....check out the floating gothic space ships!"

I'm afraid they're concentrating on how the characters look instead. But actually we're saying, "Okay....look at this, but kind of imagine the art from the codexes and index astartes in place of the characters....and animating."



My biggest fear for just about any franchise with a shred or artistic integrity left (My favorite movie series Alien sold out in on Alien 4...)
Is that they'll say: "We need this more upbeat, more gratifying, more XTREME! Thats what kids are into right? Throw in some one liners for that space marine and super size that female guards chest to about 3 times the size. Whats this? The main character is shot and dying? Naw, change it so instead of shooting him it kills some random extra and he rides over him on his motorcycle while we play heavy metal."

Its my biggest fear too. Quite frankly, the chances of this happening are extremely high if its a typical American Toy company or network who is funding the project. However, if GW suddenly came upon a ton of extra money to mess around with and decided to fund one themselves, then they could control the creative direction. Also, a Japanese company might be interested in funding it too. They could also acquire the right to distribute and sell if with some agreements attached. Much like how GW and Mythic are working together for Warhammer Online. Again, why I vote for anime is because at least in the Japanese arena, there are studios willing to do adult material. I mean, granted that the animated "Highlander: The Search For Vengeance" sucked....it shows that they are interested in working with IPs outside their own. (side note: "Highlander: The Search For Vengeance" ....if you tweak your head a little, you can almost imagine parts of it being a Necromunda animated movie....or is that just me?)

Should be fine as long as you keep it direct to DVD and you keep it out of the hands of the usual panel of concerned parents that decide on children's programming in America. :D


As for Priest, what I really found in priest wasn't so much the total style, but the emphasis on weathering and darkening things.

Oh I see. Yeah totally. I like the weathering, the texture, the tone of it. I'm with ya there.

azimaith
28-01-2008, 07:55
Oh....I see what happened there. Heh heh....whew....I didn't want you getting pissed me all of a sudden. I was like, "what the?"
Seems to happen alot in the forums. Part of having so many pages I guess.



I'm with you there. The problem with trying to convert anime haters is, you'll show them "Vampire Hunter D:Bloodlust" (for example) and they notice how the characters are really elongated and exaggerated. But what we meant we're like, "no, no, no....check out the floating gothic space ships!"

I'm afraid they're concentrating on how the characters look instead. But actually we're saying, "Okay....look at this, but kind of imagine the art from the codexes and index astartes in place of the characters....and animating."

Well if they hate it they're not going to change their minds I think. I think its important to be clear on what they're looking for though. When people see these links they're imagining it completely in that particular animations style I think.



Its my biggest fear too. Quite frankly, the chances of this happening are extremely high if its a typical American Toy company or network who is funding the project.

Oh yes, "Space Marine with Lazer Sword Action and Blaster gun!" I remember seeing that stuff happen with the "Killer Crab Alien." How do you get a crab alien. It is funny however to talk all about how Alien was themed heavily on rape. Kind of ruins it for kiddies I suppose.



However, if GW suddenly came upon a ton of extra money to mess around with and decided to fund one themselves, then they could control the creative direction. Also, a Japanese company might be interested in funding it too. They could also acquire the right to distribute and sell if with some agreements attached. Much like how GW and Mythic are working together for Warhammer Online.

To be honest I haven't really seen the really bad selling out in most Japanese merchandising. Sure you'll get silly stuff but its always silly to be silly, never silly while trying to be serious. You won't see a "Space Marine with blaster gun and lazer sword" from a Japanese merchandiser from what i've seen. You *will* see it from an American one.



Again, why I vote for anime is because at least in the Japanese arena, there are studios willing to do adult material. I mean, granted that the animated "Highlander: The Search For Vengeance" sucked....it shows that they are interested in working with IPs outside their own. (side note: "Highlander: The Search For Vengeance" ....if you tweak your head a little, you can almost imagine parts of it being a Necromunda animated movie....or is that just me?)

Hehehe Highlander. Always reminded me of He-Man. But yes, they tend to not shy away from adult material (and I don't mean adult as in porn). But the US market is becoming like that too. ITs just when production starts thinking about it soley for the money value than its name that it becomes a pile of steaming offal. Alien, once again, case in point. Now they're just going to make a dozen AVP movies to cash in but the film itself, its roots are totally shamed by the newer ones.



Should be fine as long as you keep it direct to DVD and you keep it out of the hands of the usual panel of concerned parents that decide on children's programming in America. :D

If they made a 40k movie and ran it as "PG-13" I think I would be sick.



Oh I see. Yeah totally. I like the weathering, the texture, the tone of it. I'm with ya there.
Yep, theres always some little thing you like from each different video or artwork.

Nurglitch_PS
28-01-2008, 08:58
Now, I'll agree that there are a ton of Japanese cartoons/animated shows that indeed look like crap. There's a fact that isn't in doubt. But that's not a trait exclusive to Japanese cartoons.
(...)
But I still believe a Japanese anime studio would be the best choice for an animated 40k dvd series or movie.


All right, but the question wasn't whether the movie should or should not be made by a Japanese studio, the question was whether it should be made in anime style. Not only the Japanese do anime and I guess they are capable of doing western-style animation.

What I usually find funny is that people defending anime always have a ready arsenal of japanese cartoons to show... which are usually quite removed from the anime mainstream. The anime style is a word in common usage and most of the people who hear the word associate it automatically with the naff siliness so neatly characterised by "The laws of anime" (http://www.abcb.com/laws/index.htm).

Now - would I want the movie to be made by a japanese studio? I don't care. It can as well be an Innuit studio, or it can be made by Borat, as long as it is western-style. Do I want it to be anime? Hell, no!!!!!!! I do not want to see supersized eyes, stupid droplets of sweat above some commissar's head, human bodies containing 200l of superpressurized blood and pink hedghehog hair.

As to what fits the Wh40k universe - why not try browsing some of the old Inferno issues? They seemed to be ok.

Stella Cadente
28-01-2008, 09:20
can I just say, most of the laws in the "The Laws of Anime" posted in the link by Nurglitch....well, they seem similar to how Black Library does there stories

srg.cutter
28-01-2008, 09:58
If you go to: www.deviantart.com and search warhammeresque words into the search bar you'll find a few cross overs from he 2 styles

Stella Cadente
28-01-2008, 10:06
If you go to: www.deviantart.com and search warhammeresque words into the search bar you'll find a few cross overs from he 2 styles
and allot of them are AMAZING, some better than GW's atempts

Bookwrak
28-01-2008, 11:05
Do I want it to be anime? Hell, no!!!!!!! I do not want to see supersized eyes, stupid droplets of sweat above some commissar's head, human bodies containing 200l of superpressurized blood and pink hedghehog hair.

How is any of this relevant to the current discussion? If you have no idea what you're talking about, why bother posting? It's like you're complaining that you can never make a faithful 40K animated movie in the west, because in 40K you don't have anthropomorphic animals who can be blown up in one scene and shake it off in the next.

vice
28-01-2008, 12:13
@ Xgladar

Win and awesome.

OT:

I think the only way to animate, or indeed make a movie, of 40k, is to base it all off John Blanche art.

xibo
28-01-2008, 14:22
All right, but the question wasn't whether the movie should or should not be made by a Japanese studio, the question was whether it should be made in anime style. Not only the Japanese do anime and I guess they are capable of doing western-style animation.

The question was if someone had seen anime-style 40k stuff and could show it to us...

Offtopic:
And btw. supersized eyes come from the anime's comic source where the characters have supoersized eyes too. If they don't in the comic they don't in the anime either. In case of 40k where there is no comic ( at least none to be animated ) character's are taken out of existing artworks, as otherwise GW's ( anyways misproportioned ) foo would look crappily strange (there's no way to e.g. make marine heads larger as they wouldn't fit between the shoulder pads any more(*) ). And don't freak around boob sizes which are too large for an animation worthy of 40k unless you take into considerations that SoB's boobs are larger then their heads too.

* notice that marine have larger heads then helmets in GW's models AND artworks

Nurglitch_PS
28-01-2008, 14:29
In case of 40k where there is no comic ( at least none to be animated )

On the contrary - there's lots of them, published in the Inferno issues and also, if memory serves well, stand-alone booklets.

swordwind
28-01-2008, 15:34
Warhammer Monthly

Theres quite a few animation shorts on Newgrounds (http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/search/title/warhammer) and Youtube (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=warhammer+animation&search=Search). Most are rubbish but theres the occasional gem like this one (http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/274410)

kikkoman
28-01-2008, 16:07
Not only the Japanese do anime and I guess they are capable of doing western-style animation.


They used to, when Japan was a place to do jobs cheaper.

http://www.fanboy.com/images/batman-anime.jpg
Batman the animated series, many episodes were done by Sunrise, who also do Cowboy Bebop and Big O.

http://www.ultimatedisney.com/images/g-i/gargoyles14.jpg
Most of the first season of Gargoyles was done by Disney Japan.

you can look them up here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walt_Disney_Animation_Japan
it has a list of titles they've worked on, including Aladdin, Hercules, Little Mermaid,Tail Spin, etc.

Their specialty was doing action sequences

Those Japanese animators stuck exactly to whatever designs they had to follow.
Get a studio like that, show them John Blanche, they could make a John Blanche 40k animation. I've seen Japanese animate American cartoon style flawlessly, I can't say I've seen the reverse.


and if one wants to compare production values...

http://www.michaelbarrier.com/Commentary/HomeontheRange/HomeDVD.jpg
This movie cost 110$ million to make. The most expensive Japanese animation movie...

http://www.scifimoviepage.com/upcoming/photos/steamboy4.jpg
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Z1haSQGb3xs trailer for Steamboy
steamboy, cost 26$, nearly a fifth of its price.
By Otomo, who also did Akira.

kikkoman
28-01-2008, 16:25
another example of Japanese animation done in US style...

http://blog.so-net.ne.jp/_images/blog/_cd1/loderun/4166359.gif
the Japanese X-men intro

http://youtube.com/watch?v=yUjJywCyY2A&feature=related

They look more like American Marvel comic characters in this Japanese intro than in the American animated episodes.

dr.oetk3r
28-01-2008, 17:06
1.) you agree with SV_Harlequin that it should be British not Japanese or American.

No, i agree with the fact that it SHOULDN'T look like a Japanese cartoon simply because the Idea is British. This opens up a few options:

The Brits can get their act together and make a good looking cartoon
CGI, :P

P.S. Russian Cartoons are the best in the world in my humble opinion.

Warp Zero
28-01-2008, 19:28
All right, but the question wasn't whether the movie should or should not be made by a Japanese studio, the question was whether it should be made in anime style. Not only the Japanese do anime and I guess they are capable of doing western-style animation.

What I usually find funny is that people defending anime always have a ready arsenal of japanese cartoons to show... which are usually quite removed from the anime mainstream. The anime style is a word in common usage and most of the people who hear the word associate it automatically with the naff siliness so neatly characterised by "The laws of anime" (http://www.abcb.com/laws/index.htm).

But you see, us Anime fans are trying to break people's habit of doing what you're doing. Which is to use the word "anime" as a quick simple way of saying big eyes, sweat droplets, speed lines, etc....

I see where you're coming from. But I'm just saying, we post our exceptions to show you the difference because we don't want people using the word "anime" like that. Its just as equally unfair/annoying to say all western animation is "Simpsons", "South Park", and "Family Guy". Oddly enough, I hate like 85% (pulling that number off the top of my head) off all anime I see. But I do love the other 15%. So I really can't say I hate anime can I? That 15% is still anime. So thus, I like anime. Of those that I like, I see the potential for a great animated 40k direct to dvd series.


No, i agree with the fact that it SHOULDN'T look like a Japanese cartoon simply because the Idea is British. This opens up a few options:

Yeah I know. But I was saying that the Japanese can make it look British. Thus not to close off an option that has an already established structure in place to do the kind of subject matter 40k has.


The Brits can get their act together and make a good looking cartoon
CGI, :P

Totally. I think a Brit studio could probably do it too. I was only suggesting a Japanese studio because, I know of a few that have had plenty experience doing adult theme violence and war. I just couldn't think of anyone else. Again, if you can point to British studio that has had experience doing something like 40k, then please link! Would love to check it out.

Oh, and some Brit shows like "Jakers" aren't really Brit. Jakers was produced in America and animated in India.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij81Kg7tT7s

Nice kids cartoon though.



P.S. Russian Cartoons are the best in the world in my humble opinion.

A lot of Russian animated shorts are indeed ******* awesome. However, I've only seen "shorts". Which means, they can take their time and do a sweet job because its only 15 minutes long or something. If they were to do a 40k movie weighing in at 120 minutes, we'd have to wait like 4 years for it to be finished. But heck, it would look sweet. By the way, there are a lot of Russian artists that work at American studios too. Just a little fyi on the side there.

dr.oetk3r
28-01-2008, 19:54
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWxhBR9P6lw

I like Russian animation more than Japanese because the Russians tend to make the people look more "lifelike" as opposed to the highly stylized Japanese way of drawing people.

I would like anime a lot more if they used their great skills to make people look like people instaed of big shiy eyed, spikey haired idiots.

If anyone has a example of realistically draw characters in a Japaese cartoon, please show me!

Richter Kless
28-01-2008, 19:54
The biggest problem that I see, is that animated movies fail to attract the proper audience.

Now you can give tons of arguments why it's wrong, but in western society, animated films are associated with kidsmovies. This is thanks to Disney, Fox, Pixar and whatnot. Yes, in the Asian culture, anime movies are well established as being part of mature entertainment, but this is not the case in western society.

There have been attempts at more mature animated movies. Such as The Black Cauldron and E.A. Titan and both of these failed at the box-office. That was because the audience was confused: is this a kids movie, or for the more mature?

My personal hope lies in the new technologies used in 300 and Beowulf. They have shown to make great scenery and creatures out of thin air.

PS: and seriously. Hammerfall? Just because this is a geek hobby, doesn't mean we all like heavy metal. 40K needs epic music like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1i4X0Uykn2E), this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORB8Yc7GUJI) and this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nc85tUrbb8).

PPS: and please don't use Advent Children of Spirits Within as examples of good anime. Those two pieces of garbage ought to be erased from film history.

swordwind
28-01-2008, 20:02
You mean The Black Cauldron and Titan AE were meant to be "grown up" films? :eek:

MrBigMr
28-01-2008, 20:23
You mean The Black Cauldron and Titan AE were meant to be "grown up" films? :eek:
I think Titan AE is more mature than Disney & pals' flicks. I don't remember many such films where people get shot with blood coming out and necks broken with bare hands. But sure, it's not like Elfen Lied or anything.

Naga
28-01-2008, 20:30
I think this Anime (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHBN70nKq0I&NR=1) feels very 40k, especially the music and atmosphere.

Ok, I lied. It's no Anime. It based on the works of the great Jean "moebius" Giraud, produced by a very international team.


So I would be happy if somebody like Warp Zero could explain to me what Anime IS (and not what it is not.)

xibo
28-01-2008, 20:36
If anyone has a example of realistically draw characters in a Japaese cartoon, please show me!

You can take next to every character from Bakumatsu kikansetsu irohanihoheto, Sentou yousei Yukikaze or the aforementioned Vampire Hunter D

Warp Zero
28-01-2008, 20:41
PPS: and please don't use Advent Children of Spirits Within as examples of good anime. Those two pieces of garbage ought to be erased from film history.

Ha ha ha. Yeah, I'm with you there. I think both those movies are garbage.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWxhBR9P6lw

I like Russian animation more than Japanese because the Russians tend to make the people look more "lifelike" as opposed to the highly stylized Japanese way of drawing people.

I would like anime a lot more if they used their great skills to make people look like people instaed of big shiy eyed, spikey haired idiots.

If anyone has a example of realistically draw characters in a Japaese cartoon, please show me!

Wow, thanks for the link to that one Russian animation. Looks sweet. Although, that's not realistic humans either. Sort of slightly like 90's Disney style. That's not a bad thing. Looks great.

As far as realistic non big eyed Japanese anime? Well, this one isn't realistic, its like your Russian flick, its sort of slightly exaggerated, but its not spikey hair and big huge eyes. Please watch it and tell me what you think. At least the first 4 minutes. If you like, go back and watch part 1, this is part 2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVQFLgd8ZSc

A civilian space salvage team finds a space hulk and investigate. :)



The biggest problem that I see, is that animated movies fail to attract the proper audience.

Now you can give tons of arguments why it's wrong, but in western society, animated films are associated with kidsmovies. This is thanks to Disney, Fox, Pixar and whatnot. Yes, in the Asian culture, anime movies are well established as being part of mature entertainment, but this is not the case in western society.

Unfortunately. But I got a feeling it'll change as the years go by. I hope.

Lars Porsenna
28-01-2008, 20:50
PS: and seriously. Hammerfall? Just because this is a geek hobby, doesn't mean we all like heavy metal. 40K needs epic music like

Duh, yeah I know that. But the question was asked, what sort of music? I responded because every time I listen to Hammerfall, I think this would be perfect music for a 40K movie. Others may have the same opinion; others may not...

Reading the first book of the Horus Heresy series, near the end I found it in an off-way an homage to 70's pulp SF, especially with the encounter with the interex. This only reinforced my suggestion.

Damon.

dr.oetk3r
28-01-2008, 21:14
Ha ha ha. Yeah, I'm with you there. I think both those movies are garbage.




Wow, thanks for the link to that one Russian animation. Looks sweet. Although, that's not realistic humans either. Sort of slightly like 90's Disney style. That's not a bad thing. Looks great.

As far as realistic non big eyed Japanese anime? Well, this one isn't realistic, its like your Russian flick, its sort of slightly exaggerated, but its not spikey hair and big huge eyes. Please watch it and tell me what you think. At least the first 4 minutes. If you like, go back and watch part 1, this is part 2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVQFLgd8ZSc

A civilian space salvage team finds a space hulk and investigate. :)




Unfortunately. But I got a feeling it'll change as the years go by. I hope.

That's really good! I wouldn't mind a 40k movie being done in that style.

BlastmasterJ
28-01-2008, 21:56
Todd McFarlin animation is the only cartoon style that 40k would work in, end of. Reason being that he is and always has drawn and animated for the more mature market of ppl who still like cartoons and only want to appeal to them to.
Failing that i think it would have to be giant budget with actors and realy good cgi, and i mean realy good, or cgi like beowolf, crap film, but the style of realistic, yet all animated so you dont say 'that was so blaitently added after!' would work.

J (despot)

MrBigMr
28-01-2008, 21:57
Hasn't it already been made clear that asian studios can make anything a western client asks of them? It doesn't matter if you do the thing in god damn South-African, as those little Korean kids just follow that style. I just think that since asia has plenty of experience in animation, they know how to make things we can't. When you compare an average western and asian animation, the asian one is way more dynamic and smoother in animation.

As for style, big eyes and panty shots are just a trademark of Japanese cartoon as much as big boobs, super model bodies and skin tight/almost non-existing clothes are to American superhero comics. Which one is more "fan service"?

Warp Zero
28-01-2008, 22:34
That's really good! I wouldn't mind a 40k movie being done in that style.


*whew* I'm glad you liked it. After seeing "Magnetic Rose", I've always thought an animated 40k movie or episodic dvd series would be great. Thought the same when I saw the Animatrix episodes "The Second Renaissance Part 1 & 2"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGYxfzBraGA&feature=related

(bad resolution on that clip though) :(

xibo
28-01-2008, 22:49
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGYxfzBraGA&feature=related

(bad resolution on that clip though) :(

http://www.fileshack.com/file.x/2383/The+Animatrix+Episode+2

Although I was *certain* I downloaded that one from the official matrix site five years ago ( oh, five years already ).
More offtopic: Somehow I always wondered how the machines were less affected by nukes then the humans... I mean not only should the EMP trash them but also the radiation

MrBigMr
28-01-2008, 23:35
More offtopic: Somehow I always wondered how the machines were less affected by nukes then the humans... I mean not only should the EMP trash them but also the radiation
Modern tactical nukes have 3 main forms of damage: Heat, shockwave and radiation. In that order. A thermo nuclear explosion can cause massive 3. degree burns at a distance where the shockwave would merely break windows. The shockwave is most effective at the very center. For one, when using an airburst delivery, the shockwave expands above the target, crushing it against the ground. And once the shockwave has pushed everything outwards, the vacuum in the center of the explosion violently sucks everything back, giving structures a sort of dual force hit.

Of all these, radioation is mainly limited to the initial blast zone with some elements carried around by winds. It is true that radiation cause problems to electronics (such as at Chernobyl, where robotic equipment malfunctioned after long exposure), but taken that Matrix is in the future and all, electronics might be more sophisticated and bombs cleaner. And like I said, in a thermo nuclear detonation, the damage is so severe that anything at the radiation "hot zone", would have been long gone already. Radiation carried by the winds is quite mild and will affect biological matter far more than mechanical. At Chernobyl the machines that malfunctioned, were used at place where no human could go, so they could work far better and longer in areas that humans couldn't work for very long.

And then there's the EMP. The problem of this is that the amont and range of EMP from an atmospheric detonation is so small, that to get damaged by it, you would already get busted by the explosion itself. Only high altitude detonation cause wide spread EMP.

But one has to remember than in Matrix humans were as dependant of electronic equipment as the machines. And how do we know that humans didn't use EMP? The problem is, like in the movies, that EMP isn't very accurate and doesn't identify friend from foe. True, nukes don't either, but they're more of a "point and shoot" weapons, where as nukes have to be placed in orbit, or very high in atmosphere and the effect is veeery wide. surely the machines could have shot such bombs down while they were delivered into place.

But that's just my take on the subject.

xibo
28-01-2008, 23:57
@MrBigMr: while it is true that mechanics are nearly imune to event the highest radiation levels, electronic stored, or to be more precise, computer memory stored/cached/buffered/whatever data is easily corrupted by radiation, and can same the well have little or no effect at all as it could cause the program to crash by either causing unexpected errors or running into infinite loops or to malfunction.
Therefore maybe the same level of radiation causes humans humans to get this or that disease which will kill them over say 1 year ( usually more ), but a machine would with bad luck die in instant.

logosloki
29-01-2008, 00:35
The biggest problem that I see, is that animated movies fail to attract the proper audience.

I think it would be safe to assume this would not be a popcorn release. Most likely it would be direct to dvd and blu-ray, there just isn't enough people in the hobby to hype up something like 40k

dr.oetk3r
29-01-2008, 00:47
I think it would be safe to assume this would not be a popcorn release. Most likely it would be direct to dvd and blu-ray, there just isn't enough people in the hobby to hype up something like 40k

Actually, if the movie was well marketed i believe it would rejuvenate the hobby.

Look at DoW for instance, that was just a videogame and it got 2 of my friends into the hobby. So who knows?

Azzy
29-01-2008, 07:08
So I would be happy if somebody like Warp Zero could explain to me what Anime IS (and not what it is not.)

"Anime" is simply the Japanese term for animation. That's the big and small of it. Sure, here in the West "anime" usually gets bastardize to refer strictly to animation from Japan, but its original meaning has no such limitation. Disney is anime, Family Guy is anime, Scooby Doo is anime, etc.

Even used in the more narrow sense, anime can be any genre (sci-fi, horror, romance, mystery, comedy, etc.), be targeted to different age demographics, or be any other variation that one can apply to Western live-action, or even in the whole of English literature. Anime is simply another medium for storytelling.

kikkoman
29-01-2008, 07:57
*whew* I'm glad you liked it. After seeing "Magnetic Rose", I've always thought an animated 40k movie or episodic dvd series would be great. Thought the same when I saw the Animatrix episodes "The Second Renaissance Part 1 & 2"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGYxfzBraGA&feature=related

(bad resolution on that clip though) :(

Ah, nice to see I'm not the only person who's seen Magnetic Rose!

Have you seen Steamboy? Also by Katsuhiro Otomo, who did Magnetic Rose. Victorian steam tech setting.

jhon
29-01-2008, 08:38
the writer of claymore , berzerker , gunn or even hunterxhunter can really bring out the dark matter of the 40k .

Azzy
29-01-2008, 08:39
well sure azzy, but if anime is just as complex as western animation then what advantages does it have? western style animation will fit a very western style universe

personally, i really want it to be in the style of these (drunkduck.com/grim_dorkness) awesome animations

I think you completely missed the meaning of my post altogether. In fact, I'm not even sure what you think I meant.

JaqTaar
29-01-2008, 09:40
-Music by...hmm...you guys suggest something.


Depends on the style and story, but spontaneously I'd say Jesper Kyd (best known for the music of the Hitman video games series) and Paul Oakenfold (featured on the soundtracks of Appleseed and Vexille as well as numerous Hollywood movies).

Geddonight
29-01-2008, 10:07
You know... I think I'd be happiest if it were not "animated" per se, but rather done in by the studio that did the opening scene of Dawn of War... (So CGI, I guess). My friends & I watched that over and over... and I still get a chill in my spine when the dreadnought appears from the smoke.

logosloki
29-01-2008, 10:08
Ah, nice to see I'm not the only person who's seen Magnetic Rose!

Have you seen Steamboy? Also by Katsuhiro Otomo, who did Magnetic Rose. Victorian steam tech setting.

Your not the only one. I completely forgot about it. It was on that dvd memories wasn't it, the one with the cannon city and the other one?

srg.cutter
29-01-2008, 10:17
and allot of them are AMAZING, some better than GW's atempts

i know they realy are some of these dudes should apply for a job in GW

Naga
29-01-2008, 10:28
"Anime" is simply the Japanese term for animation. That's the big and small of it. Sure, here in the West "anime" usually gets bastardize to refer strictly to animation from Japan, but its original meaning has no such limitation. Disney is anime, Family Guy is anime, Scooby Doo is anime, etc.


But if it's just the Japanese word for "animation", why not use "animation" in an English language forum instead? That would avoid a lot of confusion and reduce the references to Sailor Moon and Co.

Also, strips like this one by Jean Giraud could be mentioned: Is man good? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_emtW9UBCQg) (Contains nudity and violence.)
It's not exactly 40k (and I don't consider it Anime), but it would fit with only minor adjustments.



Even used in the more narrow sense


But could you give a definition of "the more narrow sense"?

With all the "high quality"/realistic anime mentioned, I have a hard time distinguishing what makes it "Anime". There's the "typical Anime stuff" (big eyes, androgynous bodies and faces, flat or overly pointy noses, slightly smaller mouths, rounded/organic tech designs, and so on), but according to some, these are not the defining features of Anime. So what defines Anime?

Kishiro's Battla Angel Alita still has a lot of the "typical Anime stuff" - Big Eyes, small mouths, few wrinkles, nose style etc.
Shirows' movies still have the big eyes and the rounded vehicle design typical for most animation from Japan, but apart from that, it's basically just "realistic" animation.
If you take a very close look, Otomos' animation still has a tendency to do slightly flatter faces with less wrinkles - but what else about it would be "Anime"? (That he did Akira, and the fact that it is one the core products of "Anime" in the West? That's a distinction based on marketing, not actual drawing style, imho.)


---
Edit:

Not sure if cosplay qualifies as "anime sytle", but I think this rocks. (full dressed at ~5:00)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgOk1qx27vc

And then there's this small animation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txRpbK1YSgU

kikkoman
29-01-2008, 18:29
Kishiro's Battla Angel Alita still has a lot of the "typical Anime stuff"

he's also a fan of 2000AD, the same stuff 40k comes from. Early BAA had a big Slaine lookin' cyborg gladiator, boar head belt and all

what names anime anime.
Hmmm, it's a broad question, sorta vague, here's my broad answer.

Animation that comes from the East Asian drawing tradition. Calligraphic values in design.
That's what I figure to be a very core difference compared to western animation, different backgrounds. I've always been able to tell the difference, and I figure this is the closest to defining the quality of what that difference is.

This definition is pretty all encompassing yeah and could be used to describe nearly any endeavor ("what's the difference between American and English writers? Culture, background, etc.")

But I think it's the best way so far to put it, describing specifics don't quite make the point. Or I'm not knowledgeable enough to describe specifics well enough.

and, uh, to add weight to my words, I've worked at the Smithsonian's Asian art gallery (Freer Sackler), relating ancient art to little anime watching kids.

TheBigBadWolf
29-01-2008, 18:39
40K is british and should only be done in British style, Anime is Japanese and does not fit with the style regardless. There is also the fact that the japanese would need to put some big long philosophical rubbish in it when characters are speaking (again does not fit), it just wont work, why would it be in anime when it could be done 2000ad style which is much more fitting, japanese cant do apocalype style, everything has to be white and clean.

TzeentchForPresident
29-01-2008, 19:16
Somehow I don´t think small noses and big eyes fits with the WH40K universe... :cool:

But something similar to the CGI scenes in DoW, I will gladly approve to ;)

xibo
29-01-2008, 19:24
japanese cant do apocalype style, everything has to be white and clean.
Oh, I see, you have great knowledge on the topic

TheBigBadWolf
29-01-2008, 20:23
Oh, I see, you have great knowledge on the topic

Did i say that, no, learn to read.

Japnese animation does not work, they dont understand the genre, it should only be undertaken by westeners, who understand the genre

Azzy
29-01-2008, 20:30
But if it's just the Japanese word for "animation", why not use "animation" in an English language forum instead? That would avoid a lot of confusion and reduce the references to Sailor Moon and Co.

Because, I assume, most people use "anime" to refer strictly to animation from Japan.


But could you give a definition of "the more narrow sense"?

Sure, I just meant how it's typically used in the "West"--that is, "animation from Japan." Nothing more. :)


With all the "high quality"/realistic anime mentioned, I have a hard time distinguishing what makes it "Anime". There's the "typical Anime stuff" (big eyes, androgynous bodies and faces, flat or overly pointy noses, slightly smaller mouths, rounded/organic tech designs, and so on), but according to some, these are not the defining features of Anime. So what defines Anime?

Well, firstly, anime is a medium (animation, or even Japanese animation), not a genre or even art style (though many Japanese anime have a passing similarity in regards to art styles and conventions). So what defines "anime" is not any particular stylistic convention or genre, but being animation (in the general sense) or being animation from a particular country (in the narrow sense). For instance, the 80's GI Joe cartoon was anime (in both senses) despite lacking many of the conventions that are regarded as "typical" to anime.


Kishiro's Battla Angel Alita still has a lot of the "typical Anime stuff" - Big Eyes, small mouths, few wrinkles, nose style etc.
Shirows' movies still have the big eyes and the rounded vehicle design typical for most animation from Japan, but apart from that, it's basically just "realistic" animation.
If you take a very close look, Otomos' animation still has a tendency to do slightly flatter faces with less wrinkles - but what else about it would be "Anime"? (That he did Akira, and the fact that it is one the core products of "Anime" in the West? That's a distinction based on marketing, not actual drawing style, imho.)

That last sentence pretty much says it, though I would say that it's not defined by marketing so much as an attempt during the 70s and 80s to compartmentalize Japanese animation from Western animation (which was geared mostly towards children). Marketing, IMO, just jumped on an established bandwagon as anime titles started to be distributed in the "West." :)

Speaking of Otomo, have you seen Freedom yet?

Azzy
29-01-2008, 20:32
40K is british and should only be done in British style, Anime is Japanese and does not fit with the style regardless. There is also the fact that the japanese would need to put some big long philosophical rubbish in it when characters are speaking (again does not fit), it just wont work, why would it be in anime when it could be done 2000ad style which is much more fitting, japanese cant do apocalype style, everything has to be white and clean.

You, sir, seem to have no clue as to what you speak.

swordwind
29-01-2008, 21:07
I'm having trouble thinking of a serious Japanese cartoon that doesn't involve the apocalypse in some way.

Akira anyone? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZg8XYJ-bTE)

TheBigBadWolf
29-01-2008, 21:14
Akira style still does not fit. Why are people tying to force any japanese style of animation on 40k, when it can be done better via western animation (animal farm, Lord of the rings etc) or by CGI

legio mortis
29-01-2008, 21:19
Akira style still does not fit. Why are people tying to force any japanese style of animation on 40k, when it can be done better via western animation (animal farm, Lord of the rings etc) or by CGI
No, I definitely see Jin Roh, Cannon Fodder, Ghost in the Shell and even Hellsing being able to portray 40k well. It does, however, depend on what it is exactly you want the show to be based upon. One centering around an Inquisitor is definitely going to have a different feel than one centering around a Guardsman.

Azzy
29-01-2008, 22:48
Akira style still does not fit. Why are people tying to force any japanese style of animation on 40k, when it can be done better via western animation (animal farm, Lord of the rings etc) or by CGI

Gah! The animated LotR was complete ass. I'd much rather see Disney 40k or even Archie 40K than that. Bleh!

philbrad2
29-01-2008, 23:00
Sorry to rain on your thread but I'm not getting a lot of '40k' in this thread. Lots of discussion but not really 40K related. Can we have some less tenuous 40K tie ins in this thread or it get moved to RANDOM MUSINGS

PhilB
:chrome:
+ WarSeer Mod Team +

carlisimo
30-01-2008, 00:08
Akira style still does not fit. Why are people tying to force any japanese style of animation on 40k, when it can be done better via western animation (animal farm, Lord of the rings etc) or by CGI

A lot of us have more faith in the Japanese comics & cartoon industry when it comes to a universe like 40k. It's not so much the artistic style, but the fact that they've produced so much more work intended for older audiences.

One thing that makes anime stand out from most Western cartoons is that 'good' and 'bad' are often ambiguous. The villains tend to be portrayed more humanly than in their Western counterparts, the main character isn't always on a team that's clearly good... and that's won over a lot of viewers. Obviously that's not exclusive to Japan, but it's common, even in mainstream productions. You can't say that about mainstream Hollywood. Lately the US has produced some very good CGI (but animated looking) movies, but they've all basically been light-hearted fun movies. Meanwhile live-action movies have been shoot 'em ups with lots of explosions and little substance. We feel Japan has come closer to the 40k 'feel' so we'd trust them before we trusted Hollywood.

There's another cultural issue at hand. We here in the US hardly get any European (or other) films. When we do, we think the same thing as we do about Japanese anime: it's often deeper, more brooding, more philosophical. Anime is easier to find though, and its episodic nature makes it easier for more people to get into. Oh and none of this applies to Japanese movies... for the most part they're still cheesy and have low production values. But hopefully that answers why we think an experienced Japanese studio would come closer to getting it right.

I think the people who did this (http://www.stage6.com/user/Avalone/video/1019242/Ghost-in-the-Shell-2:-Innocence-Traile) could make a good Gothic world. That said, 40k in movie form would be difficult... for it to be a good stand-alone movie it'd have to focus on a very small part of the fluff, and 90% of Warseer would feel left out and claim to plan to boycott the movie.

xibo
30-01-2008, 00:12
I think the people who did this (http://www.stage6.com/user/Avalone/video/1019242/Ghost-in-the-Shell-2:-Innocence-Traile) could make a good Gothic world. That said, 40k in movie form would be difficult... for it to be a good stand-alone movie it'd have to focus on a very small part of the fluff, and 90% of Warseer would feel left out and claim to plan to boycott the movie.
Of cause, but in the end everyone or at least next to everyone would watch it nevertheless ;)

thechosenone
30-01-2008, 01:56
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svijoQp11TQ

Just a thought for animation styles. Not sure if anyone suggested this or used it as an example yet

kikkoman
30-01-2008, 04:30
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svijoQp11TQ

Just a thought for animation styles. Not sure if anyone suggested this or used it as an example yet


Mike Mignola's style would make for an awesome, quirky story with bits of humor.
especially one about Orks. Deff Squadron reminded me of his work

Mike Mignola and Hellboy also have a strong following in Japan.

Kyuubi Brat
03-02-2008, 01:51
I think in terms of music an original orchestral soundtrack would be best, something with lots of choral pieces, something like... Mars by Holst

NO Hammerfall, if something like that was included it would have to be in the credits and Wintersun (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=succpUzvdQk) would be a FAR better choice.
NB:First person to suggest Dragonforce will be summarily executed and flogged (in that order).

Another option is to include works which have already been written by composers, Stravinsky's Firebird Suite springs to mind, as does Prokofiev's Violin concerto (1st) and Mussorgsky's Boris Gudonov.

It would be nice to go for a thematic approach utilising lietmotifs, especially for the different races. Chaos would be angular dissonant atonal and generally horrible on the ears (like Schoenberg, Late Stravinsky or Death Metal), Imperial Guard would borrow from Russian choral tradition, Space Marines would use Gregorian chant or other sacred choral forms (probably fleshed out with larger choirs, orchestras ect.), Eldar would be exotic and strange but still consonant and beautiful in a way (possibly using say the Phrygian or Locrian mode), Orks would be humourous and yet still menacing (something rather difficult to do), Tau would be smooth Jazz cos they're gay like that, Tyranids would be ambient and experimental (lots of therenims) ect.

Of course this would all get a bit complex but rest assured that if the score is written in this way, it will only be as complex as the plot.

In terms of anime I think Hellsings interesting, gory and dark (I mean the OVA not the utterly ***** TV anime) and some of the themes fit in quite well (like the main antagonist is man utterly addicted to war, blood for the...?) and something similar would be appropriate. Although many of the characters being vampires and thus ageless wouldnt work for 40k, there are many characters who are aged, weathered and not so idealised.

glacius
03-02-2008, 01:54
Tau designs resemble anime a lil

LoneSniperSG
03-02-2008, 01:56
I want titans like anime mechas(remember to mazinger z, shin getter robo or evangelion) It would be fun ^^

.. Titans and Evas are not equal.. >>;

Haha. I just had to.


I do have a pic of chibi Sisters fighting chibi genestealers (I think), if you want to see it.

xibo
22-02-2008, 23:10
*bump*

linky linky (http://picasaweb.google.com/archon.of.szczecin.wlodek.sama/Freehandy)

jhon
23-02-2008, 03:09
the highlander anime is not big eye cartoonie ....

Warboss Jhura Ironfang
23-02-2008, 03:31
Okay, here's my ideas so please don't hurt me!

I personally like anime (not huge breasted, huge eye anime but Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex), so I guess I'd be biased. However, to keep you angry anti-anime lot happy, I say we have some Japanese artists, some of the original artists for 40k, and some Americans for good measure. Team them all up and we should be good.

As for the style of Anime it should be, a darker, more "realistic" version of Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex. So far, out of all the anime I've seen, only that comes close to capturing the gist of the Warhammer mythos.

Yes, the Tau do have a noticable anime influence, which anyone with a Internet connection can discover. However, I've heard from several sources that the blueskins are actually not that popular over in Asia.

To you gits who say "anime sucks", I'm sorry to say this, but as my dad always told me, get your heads out of your asses and stop being such a pain. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it's bad.

To the Warseer =][=, I begin repention when dawn breaks. Please understand that I know the gravity of my words, but that they must be said to stop the flames to be.

Cheerz,
WB Ironfang

dr.oetk3r
23-02-2008, 05:17
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svijoQp11TQ

go to 00:23

Death Korp of Krieg Heavy Flamer man, looks simply too damn similar....

Draconian77
23-02-2008, 05:50
For animation style I'd go with something like Ergo Proxy, dark and "moody"

For music it would have to be how Kyuubi Brat put it.

Grand Warlord
23-02-2008, 06:14
as long as it was well made I would probably watch it .. Ergo Proxy could be good.

tried making a stick figure 40k once ... but i got lost in the combat phase ...

O.o

Hive Mind 33
23-02-2008, 06:53
No No the music would have to be Bolt Thrower. What othert band is built around warhammer. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolt_Thrower
Im still going to support CG like in the beginning of Dawn of War

DEADMARSH
23-02-2008, 07:17
I don't really get people who say they hate anime- that'd be like saying, "I hate movies." I mean, can you really hate an entire mode of information presentation?

That being said, live action, anime, whatever. As long as the story is something worth experiencing, I couldn't care less what the vehicle chosen to represent it is.

Take for example Akira. Akira could've been a live action movie, a book, whatever and it still would've been awesome. I guess if I remember correctly, it began as a manga then became anime, but at the end of the day, the story is what did it for me. If it ended up as a crappy looking film would I have enjoyed as much as the anime? No, of course not, but the point is, the quality of the story was what made it special for me.

If whoever is tapped to write the 40k movie does that well with the idea for the story, I don't care how it's presented to me as long as it's a quality effort and not some half-assed direct-to-DVD marketing ploy.

Ward.
23-02-2008, 07:34
There are plenty of people that hate movies, just like there are people that hate T.v or radio. (Note I don't persoanlly hate T.v, movies, radio or anime)

DEADMARSH
23-02-2008, 08:07
There are plenty of people that hate movies, just like there are people that hate T.v or radio. (Note I don't persoanlly hate T.v, movies, radio or anime)

I realize that, what I'm saying is it's a goofy statement for anyone to make. You may hate popular movies, or Hollywood movies, or people talking in a theater or whatever, but hating the delivery medium for information doesn't make any sense. You may not choose to read books because you don't enjoy it or whatever, but saying you hate books is silly to me. I don't know, maybe I'm just being pendantic.

Personally, I got out of my anime phase about 10 years ago. I still enjoy the stuff that's well done, but I don't actively seek it out like I used to. Just don't have time anymore.

Mr Kibbles
23-02-2008, 09:40
Nice pics, the orange. I like the one on the far left.

Escaflowne_Z
23-02-2008, 10:19
By all that's holy, those "pinup" rhinos are...well done, if absolutely NUTS. I've gotta say, I don't really like them (except for the Ceres Victoria one, that rocks).

kikkoman
25-02-2008, 02:49
There's a bunch of Japanese studios doing BATMAN right now

YouTube - Batman: Gotham Knight Preview (http://youtube.com/watch?v=ocITLlWOySY)
some of them have the GRIMDARK style fitting for 40k

and here's the Japanese X-men intro again YouTube - X-MEN Japan OP1 (http://youtube.com/watch?v=jjud8cVRFsk)

Just to show variety in style, ability to stick to a given form.

hmm, in general I think there's a fear of foreign influence even with people who otherwise consider themselves tolerant. Like with the 80's and Japanese cars. Japanese anime also competes with American, so you have people who's livelihoods are at stake.

American comic book artist Adam Hughes was once asked "how is the industry dealing with the popularity of manga?" he replied jokingly "with fear and racism"

scratchbuilt
25-02-2008, 04:41
If 40k where suited to anime, the illustrations would be in an anime style. Dnd and some other games do have an anime style of illustration, warhammer in contrast has a very different look. Suggesting an anime movie would be a good idea is akin to suggesting they scrap all their artists and replace them with manga artists. GW is very strict on the coherence of its art style - which is a good thing imo.
Having said that an animation could be good - just not an 'anime' animation. Yes it could have Japanese animators whatever, but it can't have big eyes, big blue hair, or outlined based imagery.
Really how many times has this thread come up. (I know all is repetition on the net - but this thread especially). The modders should merge all these anime dreams for 40k into one mega thread.

I say the best movie for 40k would be one done in a sin city style.

Stella Cadente
25-02-2008, 07:57
No No the music would have to be Bolt Thrower. What othert band is built around warhammer. Bolt Thrower - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolt_Thrower)
Im still going to support CG like in the beginning of Dawn of War
never ever EVER should bolt thrower be used for anything, there music is tripe

Richter Kless
25-02-2008, 19:59
Somebody call the Inquisitor, we have a thread necromancer here.

But seriously, my hopes still lie with the new technologies that are being used in movies like: The Polar Express, 300, or Beowulf.
They incorperate real life actors into an animated background and environement.

Grimtuff
25-02-2008, 20:55
never ever EVER should bolt thrower be used for anything, there music is tripe

Seriously. How hard is it for a native speaker of English to use there/their/they're correctly? :rolleyes:

Stella Cadente
25-02-2008, 21:01
Seriously. How hard is it for a native speaker of English to use there/their/they're correctly? :rolleyes:
very hard for 2 reasons

1: I couldn't give a crap
2: I'm not a good speller, so sue me

JimmyP0567
25-02-2008, 22:02
2: I'm not a good speller, so sue me

My lawyer will be contacting you shortly on the subject of your spelling.