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Mercer
24-01-2008, 13:41
Hi all,

I've always liked the Orkz and have been thinking of collecting a small Ork army, however I've checked the reference sheet on GW and its kind of off putting. Majority of the saves are 6, and most Orkz are toughness 4. So against a army like Necrons or Marines they won't last 5 minutes.

Am I missing something which is perhaps in the codex, like the Tyranids have bio morphs to change there stats to Orkz have something like that? Or do Orkz, like Tyranids relie on high numbers?

Thanks

Mercer

Scorpioni
24-01-2008, 13:48
High numbers ;)

And what's bad about T4? :o

RampagingRavener
24-01-2008, 13:48
The fact that you get two and a half Ork Boyz for each basic Tactical Marine should be hint enough that they're supposed to be used in a huge horde. You're looking at about 100 models in 1500 points, usually. So yea, an individual Ork isn't going to last long, but when you've got so many you'll pretty much just trample a lot of opponents through weight of numbers.

Of course, if you want to play an 'Ard army, stick two Warbosses in HQ, and feild nothing but Nobz, Meganobz, Flashgitz, and Battlewagons.

pookie
24-01-2008, 14:04
they also now get Furious charge iirc so any orks that do make it into combat are hitting V Hard!

they seem to have gone back to a Horde style army, where there numbers really do count.

BajsArne
24-01-2008, 14:19
Or you can start to collect old power armoured orks and use them as count as-marines!

Cirrus the Blue
24-01-2008, 14:25
Or you can start to collect old power armoured orks and use them as count as-marines!

hahaha Those figs were so goofey. :p But yeah, Orks do fine vs. Marines! Just depends a teensey bit moreso on the composition when facing Marines as opposed to other armies. Speed Freaks do well enough in my experiences! :)

- Cirrus

Meriwether
24-01-2008, 15:02
Trukks, Snikrot, Nobz, Stormboyz... Not only are you going to outnumber your opponent, but orks are now the fastest army in the game. So your opponent needs to kill you at a 2:1 ratio _before you get to him_ and start krumpin'.

*sings* 'It's not easy, fightin' green...'

Seriously, orks are dead hard.

Meri

pookie
24-01-2008, 15:08
Or you can start to collect old power armoured orks and use them as count as-marines!

do you know what they remind me off most? gremlins in Power Armour! ( as in what happens when you feed Gizmo after 12!)

paddyalexander
24-01-2008, 15:13
Also put nobz with powerclaws in those large squads of boyz. Thats 5 x str 9 WS4 attacks @ I1 on the charge & 4 x str 8 WS4 attacks @ I1 in subsequint turns. Include the 40 or so attacks from the boyz & not much can stand up to that.

gitburna
24-01-2008, 15:43
Hi all,

I've always liked the Orkz and have been thinking of collecting a small Ork army, however I've checked the reference sheet on GW and its kind of off putting. Majority of the saves are 6, and most Orkz are toughness 4. So against a army like Necrons or Marines they won't last 5 minutes.

Am I missing something which is perhaps in the codex, like the Tyranids have bio morphs to change there stats to Orkz have something like that? Or do Orkz, like Tyranids relie on high numbers?

Thanks

Mercer

"Small ork army" ? What, i dont understand, isnt that an oxymoron ?

Wont last 5 minutes against marines or necrons ... Necrons you *may* be on to something but Marines are generally no worry for an Ork player on top of his game.

Mercer
24-01-2008, 15:43
Interesting. My current armies, SM, CSM, Necrons are all T4 so I'm used to that, with exception of Tyranids and the few battle sisters I have. I wasn't sure point wise as I have no Ork codex to go against.

2:1 sounds good, and admittly some of the Ork models do look awesome. I think they have the same concept as the Tyranids, horde army with a not very good armour save.

I'II have a good think about the Orkz and have a look at the new models. I've got some of the old 4 pack snap together ones which I brought sometime ago as a sample.

Thanks

Mercer

Grazzy
24-01-2008, 16:23
2:1 sounds good

2:1 against marines? You're playing orks wrong. My ork army has 124 models, outnumbering most marine armies 3:1! And i dont even use grots!

pookie
24-01-2008, 16:23
if your used to Sm or MEQ's then thet save is a scarey prospect, but when you can take2/3 times more casualtys itdoes balance out.

Warsmith Strader
24-01-2008, 16:29
Off topic question, what is the overall average size of ork mobs now for the new codex... 20? and does fearless go away if mob is dropped below 10 orks?

Back of topic, most nobs have the hvy armour upgrade of what I've seen.

Eta
24-01-2008, 18:05
Off topic question, what is the overall average size of ork mobs now for the new codex... 20? and does fearless go away if mob is dropped below 10 orks?

Back of topic, most nobs have the hvy armour upgrade of what I've seen.

I do see lots of lists with 30 Boyz / mob. And yes, orks are not fearless anymore once they drop below 11 models.

The nobz might have the upgrade, but if you use them in your mobs, you really do not need it. It is a waste of points.

@OP:
As mentioned before, the orks have no armor save against most weapons, but they are very numerous. And they have access to very good weapons, too. With the new codex it is quite possible to outshoot a SM army ;) (in spite of their crappy BS)

Greetings
Eta

Archangel_Ruined
24-01-2008, 19:42
Big units are great, they more than make up for the lack of a save. It is always worth taking a nob with a power claw, as it's 4 high strength attacks that can't be targetted. The ork list is fantastic, and great fun.

sephiroth87
24-01-2008, 19:53
Hi all,

I've always liked the Orkz and have been thinking of collecting a small Ork army, however I've checked the reference sheet on GW and its kind of off putting. Majority of the saves are 6, and most Orkz are toughness 4. So against a army like Necrons or Marines they won't last 5 minutes.

Am I missing something which is perhaps in the codex, like the Tyranids have bio morphs to change there stats to Orkz have something like that? Or do Orkz, like Tyranids relie on high numbers?

Thanks

Mercer


Ummm...have you ever seen an ork army actually played? They just play differently. You don't mind having a 6+ armor save when you have 100 infantry running at you in vehicles that move 25'' a turn. Buy the codex, look at the rules, then figure out how to NOT play it like you're playing necrons.

Dantès
24-01-2008, 20:07
Interesting. My current armies, SM, CSM, Necrons are all T4 so I'm used to that, with exception of Tyranids and the few battle sisters I have. I wasn't sure point wise as I have no Ork codex to go against.

2:1 sounds good, and admittly some of the Ork models do look awesome. I think they have the same concept as the Tyranids, horde army with a not very good armour save.

I'II have a good think about the Orkz and have a look at the new models. I've got some of the old 4 pack snap together ones which I brought sometime ago as a sample.

Thanks

Mercer

I was in a similar position 5 years back, when I first started playing Guard. My first army was CSM, played them for a few months, then picked up Eldar. My CSM list was only 500 points, plenty of marines with a 3+ save T4. Eldar was a little tough to go to at first but I went for it, and loved them. The speed, the precision, the ruthless efficiency.

After a year with Eldar I was thinking about playing Guard. I had the same fears as you. Low armor save? Wow, they must suck... I thought that until someone told me all about the Guard. They told me 'just go for it, you'll have a great time.''

And he was right. I love my Guard, a really fun army. It's the polar opposite of what I played before, thats why I was a little skeptical when first thinking about starting them.

I just want to tell you, just go it. Run headlong into the Ork army like a boy heading towards battle :p

Orks will be the most fun army youve ever played, no matter what list you take.

And its a lot of fun when you just go balls out and make a 5000 point green horde, then see them arrayed on the table top.

Good luck w/ Orks, maybe I'll be seeing you in the Tactica, as I too am starting them :p

Marius Xerxes
24-01-2008, 20:15
Id actually, if you have the option, to go to a local store and take a look through the Codex. Picking armies by Referance Sheets (which are notoriously wrong anyway) is a rather akward way of seeing if an army is worth your time or not.

I think they are a very fun list to play with the new Codex. And if you play games with friends, there is no reason ya shouldnt be able to get the Dex then use all your current figs to "count as" until you have the money and played enough to know what combinations and things you want to run in your new orc army.

Eulenspiegel
24-01-2008, 20:45
Don´t play Orks. Play Chaos, they´re new as well. SHINY NEW!

PrinnySquad
24-01-2008, 21:11
Don´t play Orks. Play Chaos, they´re new as well. SHINY NEW!

Orkz are even shinierer.
So shiny the red looks like glistening blood.
Oh wait...spedd freaks splalted something again.

Vault-Dweller
25-01-2008, 00:04
WAAAGH! The orks! WaAAGh!

Latro_
25-01-2008, 01:04
Really dont be put off by stats. With the pts cost you can field so many models that it totally negates it.

However just to give you the heads up since saves are bothering you. there are various things that boost orky saves.

Most common is a kustom force field which can be given to a big mek (one of the hq choices) this basically gives any mob within 6" a 5+ cover save!

You can upgrade a unit of boyz to 'ard boyz. This for a pts increase provides them with a 4+ save.

Nobs etc can come in 2+ and 4+ save. There is also the option for a pain boyz which gives them feel no pain!

If you are really considering an orky army, I'd get ya self two units of shoota boyz between 20-30, with rokkits and a power klawed nob in each.

Then add in some fast stuff like storm boyz or truk boyz,

then some killy long range stuff like killa kans or lootas.

3 tiers of death. its sick.

Dribble Joy
25-01-2008, 02:03
It's all about MA nobs.

I have 18, a MA WB, Grotsnik for the inv. saves and two wagons (which are 14 on the front now :D) from which to pile out of, unload 38 twin linked shoota shots (and a slugga :p) and then beast in with 67 PK attacks.
Or if it's turn two or later, forgo the shooting and fleet if necessary.

Feor
25-01-2008, 02:26
If you want a small Ork army go all Grots!

What? Wrong kind of small? Big Mek (Cybork, Kustom Mega Blasta) as your HQ, 3 Mobs of 30 Grots and 1 mob of 20 Grots with Runtherds: 500 points. :)

For actual Small you go 2 Warbosses in Mega-armour, 10 Meganobs, and a pair of Battlewagons in 1000 points. Or 8 Meganobs and 2 Mega-Bosses + upgrades for 500 points.