PDA

View Full Version : What's going to be your VC character setup?



Jack of Blades
24-01-2008, 13:02
Me and others may change our setups, so it's never too late to go back and look.

Mine's:

Vampire Count Krauon the Dragonkin - ~605 Points

*Hand of the Kraken* - Hand of Dust - Looks like a green octopus with ten arms, sucks the energy out of the target.
Crown of the Damned
Black Periapt
Forbidden Lore; Lore of Fire
Red Fury
Lvl 3 Wizard
''Zombie'' Dragon
*Houkhus the Purger* - Flaming Sword of Rhuin (Sentient) - This big sword has an oddly-formed, jagged, broad and thick blade of a purple-black color, with dragons engraved on it. The Guard is shaped like a Sphere which swirls with its own unnatural energy. The guard has a pair of wings around it.


Vampire Ivartin the Schemer - ~215 Points

Balefire Spike
2 Power Stones
Forbidden Lore; Lore of Heavens
Hellsteed


Vampire Sir Blightheart - ~215 Points

Biting Blade
2 Power Stones
Forbidden Lore; Lore of Heavens
Hellsteed



The main thought behind it, is lots of nasty tricks with spells. For example a pair of Power Stones + 1 pool dice + their own dice = 4 dice, two times per game, to cast Comet with, and then they can also cast Portent of Far on the Count. When he's hitting on a basic 2+ with S8 and 5 attacks (assuming FSoR goes off), you kind of appreciate Portent of Far :D... and especially with the Dragon and Red Fury. If both Portent of Far and Flaming Sword of Rhuin go off, that's an all but guaranteed 10 wounds done by the Count, not counting a potential Hand of Dust and the Dragon, and thanks to being able to fly it won't be very hard to get PoF off on the Count. Second Sign of Amul is another nice thing for my Count, giving me the ability to re-roll my Ward Save. The result is an extremely nasty Lord. However, it is reliant on spells to work. If it appears cheesy then I can say that I am a fluff bunny and heavily dislike WAAC-style players, I take it because I like it/like the fluff of it.


Comment and post yours! :)

Three Headed Monkey
24-01-2008, 14:10
Vampire Count:
level 3 wizard
Red Fury
Eternal hatred
Sword of might
Crown of the damned
Flayed hauberk
Lord of the dead

Pretty much just a rank and file killer, trying to kill as much CR as possible and to reduce casaulties on the skelli unit he will be in. Hatred to help him hit and the sword to help him wound. The rest so he cant be taken down easily. Plus the blood dragon model I use is heavily armoured.

Thrall:
Dread Knight (with nightmare)
Eternal hatred
Hand Of Dust

He will be in a Black Knight unit trying to cause as many casualties on the charge as possible. Plus his presence ensures the can march, freeing up their deployment and he can heal them with the invocation, or create speed bumps and charge blockers when facing off against other heavy cav with raise dead.

The hand of dust provides a bound spell, which is always handy to bolster the magic phase, plus if it goes off it can reduce the charged unit's rank bonus as well as helping the knights outnumber

Havent come up with other characters yet but I'd probably take a necro with the scepter of wossname and always chose the 1st raise zombie spell. Maybe, if points allow, with the book of arhkan to combo raise plus rear charge in the one turn.

Or he could just be a scroll caddy :p.

I must say I like your T6 wight king. Maybe make him a BSB? He would be pretty hard to kill.

Jack of Blades
24-01-2008, 14:32
Ouch, Red Fury and SoM with Eternal Hatred surely hurts those RnF. That should be about 4 hits, 3-4 wounds and that means 7-8 attacks per turn, going by estimation. I have to admit he's rather hard to kill too. My lord would have some major problems going through that double 4+ you'll get, I think. Though, one wound... and you die. Of course you chew through RnF like nothing which I don't.

Might take mine on a Dragon, and I look forward to seeing what the Abyssal Terror is.

Agreed. HoD is really nice in item form.

You can't take both (even if they were in separate categories). What you could do however, is give him the Sceptre and a Power Stone. IIRC, they start with 3 spells and Vanhel's Danse is one of them. So, first raise some zombies using 2-3 PD and the Sceptre, then pull out the Stone and Danse them away!

Aye, it's attractive. Thing is he can't have his Sword of Kings then, and I like not only the effect but also the name of it. Though it's certainly a good idea.

W0lf
24-01-2008, 15:29
All the Strigoi powers i can get in.

The any magic items that arnt armour or weapons.

Probably something like:

Red fury
Iron sinews
Inifnite hatred
Strength of steel

Carstein ring

Not sure till i read it really. I want something big and killy. (stupid new book making strigoi weaker)

Jack of Blades
24-01-2008, 16:04
I'd guess you want something like:

Red Fury
Infinite Hatred
Supernatural Terror
Hand of Dust (it's not really a magic item...)


That's about as far as it gets with the restriction of no magic items. Then again, it depends on what you want your count to do... Infinite Hatred + Sword of Might + Red Fury is a basic anti-RnF setup.

Spectral Horror + Supernatural Terror + Hunter in the Dark could be nice. That's basically a scouting Wraith with better stats (because it's a lord choice).

You could also attempt some nasty things with Spectral Horror + Forbidden Lore (Lore of Metal; Law of Gold), but then again that's sort of meh. Better to just give Forbidden Lore; Metal to a Thrall with 2 Power Stones and send a unit of Wraiths + Banshee at 'em. So many options! :D

Neknoh
24-01-2008, 19:37
. . . where do people get these?!?

Stella Cadente
24-01-2008, 20:00
I'll tell you what I use when the rulebook exsists

TK421
24-01-2008, 20:09
. . . where do people get these?!?

I was just about to ask the same thing :confused:

W0lf
24-01-2008, 20:10
can he take the carstein ring now?

I was thinking of modelling a bunch of weapons on his base and having the ring lying on the top...

Depulsor
24-01-2008, 21:01
Count Cyrill von Carstein

lvl3 wizard
Master of the dark arts
Dark Acolyte
Lord of the dead

Flayed hauberk
Biting blade
Skullstaff

He can kill rank and file just fine, but isnt really that great in combat. If there are big nasty things around, he will just avoid them, and go for some weak troops. "never accept a challange" ;)
He is great magic-support and with him, I can buy 10 man skellie units to use more points on things like graveguard and such.

on the thralls.... Dread Knight is going to be very popular :P

snyggejygge
24-01-2008, 22:36
I will probably go for a character build like this:

Count:
Extra level, Dark Acolyte, Walking Death, Lord of the dead, Sword of Might, Walach's Bloody Hauberk & mounted on steed (w. shield & barding if it can be taken as mundane options), this will give me the kind of guy I would like in my current Necrarch army, a decent save (3+ or more followed by a 5+ ward, better than my current count which only has Ring of the Night & barded steed), hits good enough w. S6, can raise more skellies, is a high level wizard & reliable in combat due to +1CR. I could get more items but I donīt want to spend too many points on one character. I will miss the +1 to cast spells, but well thatīs life...

Vampire:
Dark Acolyte, Flayed Hauberk, Black Periapt & a GW if possible.

2 Necros: 1 w. Book of Arkhan, probably mounted on Corpsecart, other w. Sceptre de Noirot & a scroll.

I think this set up will allow me to use my current skeleton/zombie horde pretty much the same (although no zombie blocks from beginning, just raise new ones & use skellies instead), Vampires & support units do the killing.
Iīm eager to try out the new rules for Black Knights which allows them to move through terrain & stuff, even easier to get flankcharges! I will however probably drop my 24 Ghouls I currently use...
Anybody think the Wraiths in units will be good enough??

rolly_321
25-01-2008, 06:44
Vanessa Von Grein
Lord of the Dead
Summon Creatures of the Night
Summon Ghouls
Master of the Dark Arts
Septre de Noirot
Carstein Ring

Sick her in the center with all your gribblies around and let the summoning begin!

Nedar
25-01-2008, 06:55
I was gunna use a Lord with:

Master of the Black Arts
Dark Acolyte
Lord of the Dead
Skullstaff
Helm of Commandment

He'd be a level 4 wizard with access to 8 PD himself and can cast IoN up to 8 times on a 3+ on anything and can make mad skeleton buffs. Prob run with 2 blocks of 10-20 skelys to start with spears baby (I like the new raising system so far).

I'd also have a GG unit or two. One will be joined by a Barrow King (I HATE how Wight King sounds...so stupid).

Barrow King:

Accursed Armor
Sword of Kings (Or GW with GoB or something)

In his unit they will have the legendary Banner of the Barrows. With the generals helm working on said unit they will almost always hit on 2+ and I just might give them GWs for 2+ to wound as well...not sure which of the 2 units of GG I'll run will have the King.

This is awsome, since i'll have a T6 hero that hits on 2 and either has KB 5+ or Str 6 attacks with regular ASF buffs going off. Sounds like a very badass unit to me. Welcome to the erra of the Wights!!

Jack of Blades
25-01-2008, 07:03
Vanessa Von Grein
Lord of the Dead
Summon Creatures of the Night
Summon Ghouls
Master of the Dark Arts
Septre de Noirot
Carstein Ring

Sick her in the center with all your gribblies around and let the summoning begin!

Holy crap :eek:! that's a ******** of summoning. Yes snyggejygge (always liked your name ever since I saw you ages ago on another forum btw :P), you'll have to take the Avatar of Death bloodline power though. Which gives you room for nothing else.

Nedar
25-01-2008, 07:06
I just might have to drop Dark Acolyte for the other two Master powers after seeing that...2 more IoNs or being able to re-inforce almost every unit to mad numbers. In that case i'd have to drop the skullstaff likely and find some other fun stuff to play with (Helm stays, I love a vampire general staying in the back commanding his minions)

Latro
25-01-2008, 07:55
. . . where do people get these?!?

Seek and ye shall find ... most likely in the rumour section of course.


:cool:

Jack of Blades
25-01-2008, 10:08
Aye, I've got it all saved in a word document myself. I don't know the base costs of Vampire Counts, Necromancers and Wight Kings yet though. What are people's thoughts on this one:

Count

Skullstaff
Sceptre de Noirot
Talisman of the Lycni
Master of the Dark Arts
Dark Acolyte
Lord of the Dead

It's about as good summoning as you'll get. He's got a +1 on the casting roll for raising skeletons and can raise them beyond their starting size. This means that even on one die, your chances of raising skeletons are pretty good. Two dice will definetily be more than enough.

He then gets 8 power dice and 4 spells to play with. That's around 7 power dice for 3 spells, discounting the die needed to raise skeletons and the spell itself. Oh, and he has a +1 on all casting/dispelling rolls so you shouldn't need more than 2 dice except if you really need to get a spell off or the casting value is 10+.

Did I mention he also has M9 and raises D3+9 Zombies with each cast?


Or this one:

Wight King

Sword of Kings
Accursed Armour
Shield

Use a thrall with the Helm of Commandment, and then put a Banner of the Barrows on the unit of GG he'll be joining. So he'll hit on 2+, wound on 3/4+ and he gets killing blow on a 5+. That should be an average of 1 killing blow per round, and he's T6. Alternatively you can take a nightmare and charge him straight at the enemy general. With T6, as a single model and with the penalties for shooting, he's quite hard to take down. Of course, don't charge him at a unit which has lots of static combat resolution, so this works mostly against units of knights or such or when you've already engaged. He should get the charge, so challenge and if that general has no ward save or KB immunity, he dies! And it doesn't even cost a lot.

snyggejygge
25-01-2008, 12:29
Yes snyggejygge (always liked your name ever since I saw you ages ago on another forum btw :P), you'll have to take the Avatar of Death bloodline power though. Which gives you room for nothing else.

You mean a Vampire who want to wear any magic armour also has to take Avatar of Death Bloodline? If so, that means those armours are actually quite expensive, 45 pts for a 2+ save...
Or did you mean to get a GW??

Jack of Blades
25-01-2008, 12:32
You mean a Vampire who want to wear any magic armour also has to take Avatar of Death Bloodline? If so, that means those armours are actually quite expensive, 45 pts for a 2+ save...
Or did you mean to get a GW??

I don't know the details, but if you want mundane equipment and be on foot you'll need the Avatar of Death power. If you want to be on horseback, it's the Dread Knight power. Dread Knights can apparently swap their barded nightmare for a Hellsteed, which is a nightmare (non-barded) with wings. I don't know if you need the Dread Knight to swap to other kinds of mounts.

I really don't think you'd have to take those powers myself though. In my case, my whole combo is screwed and I have to pay 20 points just to enable me to take the Frostblade :wtf:... and not even GW are that insane. Then again every model starts with something counting as a hand weapon.

Ixquic
25-01-2008, 16:26
Posted this in the Vamp tidbits thread but it should have been here in the first place...

My current plan is:

Lord
Mounted on Winged Nightmare (old type), level 3 upgrade, Forbidden Lore, Red Fury, lord of the dead, Helm of Commandment, Book of Arkhan, Crown of the damned or Wristbands of Black Gold. I don't think there's anything saying you can't have two hats since neither are of the same type and they aren't armor.

Vampire
Forbidden Lore, Lord of the dead, maybe dispel scrolls, the Rod of Flaming death or nothing at all if points are tight.

Vampire
Avatar of Death, Infinite Hatred, The hand of dust

Vampire
Spectral Horror, stick him in a unit of Wraiths.

This is only a little bit more expensive than my current list full of 150 point necros and a 161 point wight BSB. The Lord is really the point sink but it's worth it just to try sticking her behind a grave guard unit with the Banner of the Barrows and having undead units hitting on 2s. Also bound spell madness.

W0lf
25-01-2008, 18:02
Blood Dragon

Lvl 3
Infinite Hatred
Avatar of Death (Heavy armour, Shield)
Red fury

Sword of Might
Walrach Bloody Hauberk
Gem of Blood
Talisman Of lycni

So..

1+ save. (HA + Shield (only +1 due to magic wep) + 4 + from hauberk)
5+ Ward
Gem
T5 w/3 wounds.

Pretty durable.

Then red fury + Sword of might + Eternal hatred.

Pretty nice eh?

Neknoh
25-01-2008, 18:45
Hrm... going by translations by Babelfish here:


The Bestial Flying Horror
Infinite Hatred
Red Fury (if possible)

Sword of Battle
Hand of Dust
Armour of the Night

He can cause quite the pain I'd imagine. Dive into battle, pop the book, kill any survivors.

W0lf
25-01-2008, 19:10
You have 125 pts of bloodlines...

Apart from that..

Take Talisman of Lynci its movement 9 for only *X* points.

Here Neknoh as a veteran chaos player with my respect ill 'sort you out'

Neknoh
25-01-2008, 19:12
Heh, indeed, as said, I wasn't sure what I could take, the points went strange in the Bloodline department and I wasn't sure if the points were first or last. If it is the Red Fury taking it up above 100, then Red Fury gets dropped :p If not, I'll check other sources. And I was thinking of that talisman, however, I like the idea of a fell bat of the Strigos bloodline more than a vampire turning into a wolf

Jack of Blades
25-01-2008, 19:13
I'll bless you with what I blessed W0lf with, Neknoh. But I crave 4 worshippings a day, free miniatures, exclusive rights to your girlfriend and that you steal the new VC book for me.

Neknoh
25-01-2008, 19:24
Bewarned Jack, the Ninjakittens have been disposed ;)

Anyhow, I have just revisited the Vampire and done the following:

Flying Horror
Infinite Hatred
Walking Death OR Supernatural Horror (can't decide, think Walking Death = best)

Sword of Battle
Hand of Dust
Armour of the Night

still a true beast if I support him magically enough. I can see the face of my opponent as I first throw arround the spells of normal Vampires, then try and pop something high level with thisone. Only scroll of my opponent comes out, no dice left "That's that then? Combat?" "Not yet" Īpops Hand of DustĪ ". . . :eek:" "Now I'm done" :skull:

Jack of Blades
25-01-2008, 19:29
Aye, flying and ethereal is nice. May I recommend Dread Knight; Hellsteed and Supernatural Terror in addition to Supernatural Horror if you want to have a flying, ethereal, mounted, lance-equipped terror causer that casts spells? Then again if you're no fan of terror perhaps you'd like to reroll all misses instead. :P

And indeed WD is best of them, if you want to take magic items. Which I assume most do. Please rumor, be wrong... I don't want to have to presumably fail at persuading myself to resort to Forbidden Lore; Lore of Fire + Spectral Horror.

You'll have to keep the battle report if that Hand of Dust scenario ever happens mate :)

Neknoh
25-01-2008, 19:40
Meant Supernatural Terror :p

Anyhow, for the other three Vampires:

Dark Acolyte
Summon Cretures of the Night

and the following items on them:
Staff of Damnation on no1
Book of Arkhan on no2
Rod of Flaming Death on no3

that should sort the dispell dice and scroll problems before unleashing the Hand on the winged vampire.

And I just had another thought... throw in two Varghulfs together with the "strigoi" attacking the unit... YUMY!

Jack of Blades
25-01-2008, 19:44
Indeed, or take four vampires, each with Dread Knight (the lord may take Flying Horror) and Walking Death. Flying Circus with a +CR of 4! :O

snyggejygge
26-01-2008, 09:11
Blood Dragon

Lvl 3
Infinite Hatred
Avatar of Death (Heavy armour, Shield)
Red fury

Sword of Might
Walrach Bloody Hauberk
Gem of Blood
Talisman Of lycni

So..

1+ save. (HA + Shield (only +1 due to magic wep) + 4 + from hauberk)
5+ Ward
Gem
T5 w/3 wounds.

Pretty durable.

Then red fury + Sword of might + Eternal hatred.

Pretty nice eh?
I doubt heavy armour & Walachs Bloody Hauberk can be combined to get a 2+ save (1+ w. shield), since then youīre wearing 2 armours...
I mean you canīt combine for example light armour & heavy armour to get a 4+ save...

W0lf
26-01-2008, 09:15
It says 'can be combined'

That normally means you can use it with heavy armour, shield etc

snyggejygge
26-01-2008, 13:06
I think it means can be combined w. a shield, I mean how would you wear 2 heavy armours??

Edit: It would also mean that if mounted w. heavy armour, shield & barding youīd get a -1+ save, i highly doubt that...

Cromenon
26-01-2008, 13:15
Walach's Bloody Hauberk 45 pts
gain 4+ save that can be combined with other stuff, also 5+ ward.

W0lf's right. Also, a character (mounted or not) can have a 1+save max, there are no 0+/negative+ saves ;)

Cromenon
26-01-2008, 13:37
Ok, so what about this one:

Vamp Lord in a unit of BK w/ banner of hellfire. The deforester

- Dread Knight
- Beguile
- Red Fury

- DreadLance
- Staff of damnation

Problems with that dreaded Treeman Ancient with an annoyance of Netlings? Cannot defeat it at once? No problemo!;):evilgrin:

snyggejygge
26-01-2008, 13:43
Wrong, wrong & wrong, learn to read your rulebook...

Rulebook:

Magic armour:
If a character wears magic armour, he cannot also wear ordinary armour and, needless to say, he can only wear one set of armour. Page 121

So you cannot wear 2 armours at once, but you can wear armour & a magical shield or helm at the same time.

Maximum save:
Magi armour is one way to improve the wearers armoursave to 1+ or even less! However a roll of 1 always fails, so even a model w. a 1+ OR better armour save will suffer a wound if it rolls 1 when taking magic armour. Page 30

Fully possible to get a better save than 1+, has been for quite a few years, it is also a very common sight on most armygenerals (before 6:th edition it wasnīt possible, but thatīs many years ago, also some armour prevent you from getting better than 1+ or 2+, but that is because the bonus is already so great when being on foot)

heinrichvoncarstein
26-01-2008, 15:45
The best save it's possible to get is -1 (for example: chaos lord with enchanted shield, barded steed, chaos armour)


btw iirc a redshirt told me you can't combine red fury with a magic weapon(not a 100% sure though).
Heinrich Von Carstein:
Dark Acolyte
lvl 3 upgrade
Carstein Ring
Lord of the Dead
Sword of might
talisman of lycni
Infinite Hatred or walking death
Beguile

OR

Forbidden Lore
Dark Acolyte
lvl 3 upgrade
Beguile
Carstein Ring
Flayed Hauberk

Thrall:
bsb
drakenhof banner
dread knight
walking death or infinite hatred

Thrall:
Blood Drinker
Heavy Armour
Nightmare
Enchanted Shield
Infinite Hatred
beguile

or if it's possible to combine red fury with a magic weapon he'll have that.

OR
aura of dark majesty
scabscrath
cadaverous cuirass
heavy armour
shield
steed

Necro:
Corpse Cart
Book of Arkhan or hand of dust or Sceptre de Noirot and Nightshroud

Neknoh
26-01-2008, 16:42
I think the problem here is that there isn't any form of "Counts as..." for the Bloody Hauberk, no "counts as heavy armour" or similar. This is similar to the bretonnian Helmet. By that reasoning, a Bretonnian wearing one of their Helmets would instantly loose any and all armour he is wearing. Furthermore, this means taking a magical armour, you forfeit the abillity to wear a shield.

The Hauberk doesn't count as ANY sort of armour except Magical Armour, it's not a suit of magical Heavy Armour, or a suit of magical Light Armour.
As such, you are NOT wearing Body Armour, giving you access to Heavy Armour and a Shield as well as a mounted steed.

snyggejygge
27-01-2008, 08:28
Wrong, because the wording on magic shields & helmets always clearly state that it counts as a helm or shield, allowing you to wear normal armour, while magic armour donīt always counts as some sort of armour, itīs just body armour, otherwise I could just give my Wargor Chaos armour (which donīt count as a specific kind of armour), combine it w. heavy armour & shield, voila, 1+ save (on foot, 0+ if I use normal handweapon) for only 16 pts, balanced?? You canīt wear 2 armours, the rules are clear, itīs just so ridiculous that you actually think you can wear 2 armours...

Neknoh
27-01-2008, 08:32
However, Chaos Armour as seen in the Hordes of Chaos book is a replacement for Heavy Armour and as such acts as normal armour. Furthermore, we can also see that there are different sorts of armours from the Hordes of Chaos Magic Items that "Counts as chaos Armour".

In addition, Chaos Armour does NOT state that it can be combined with other armour.
The bloody Hauberk however, does


EDIT: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hauberk

I'd say it looks fully viable to wear either heavy or light armour atop that thing. Whereas it is difficult to carry Light Armour of Heavy Armour or vice versa.

snyggejygge
27-01-2008, 08:38
I said wargor, which clearly means the magic armour that can be taken by Beasts of Chaos...

The rulebook is clear, you canīt wear 2 armours, you can wear an armour & carry a magic shield or vice versa, same w. helmets, but you canīt wear another armour over heavy armour, especially since a Hauberk is indeed a body armour (http://www.surfon.com/dartmud/images/hauberk.jpg)

Neknoh
27-01-2008, 08:44
Hauberk is a shirt with attatched chainmail, hardly what I'd call the reinforced leather or platemail armour found throughout the armies of warhammer.

Again, the Hauberk explicitly states that it can be combined with other armour. I have yet to see you adress this fact

snyggejygge
27-01-2008, 08:46
We donīt have the exact wording, but I highly doubt that GW makes an armour that breaks one of the core rules, just so that you can get a -1+ save for only 65Pts (along w. a 5+ ward as well)

Neknoh
27-01-2008, 08:52
Erm, it wouldn't break the core rules, it would allow you to wear other armour by simply stating that it can be "combined with other armour". And as previously said, we have other such items (i.e. Helmets and even BoC items; "The furr of Sharrgu" IIRC)
So I wouldn't be too sure on this "no -1+ save for 65 points and a wardsave to boot", I'm pretty sure Lizzies can do that for cheaper allready.

Cromenon
27-01-2008, 10:06
Ok guys, why don't wait and see what exactly the bloody hauberk is, and then, if we are doubtful, we make a thread dedicated to "new VC rules questions & problems"?

This is a thread to post our general setup, isn't it? Patience... :)

jonnywright104
27-01-2008, 10:15
working off 3000 point list, i am going to have ALL 4 von carsteins!! vlad suffers from frenzy and hatred when isabella gets killed in new rules, which is awesome. 90 points of cool character who then is stil usefull after "death"

heinrichvoncarstein
27-01-2008, 10:21
frenzy isn't all that usefull you know. enemy fast cav can use it to bait your general into a trap. And for a vc general that's really bad. I'm thinking of adding vlad or konrad to my 3000 point army vlad just loos so good.

W0lf
27-01-2008, 20:24
If armour explicitly states it can be combined with other armour its a army book rule and thus by GW ruling OVER-RULES the rulebook.

It can be combined.

Oh and a 1+ save and 5+ ward for 65 pts is hardly a bargain...

snyggejygge
27-01-2008, 20:27
But a -1+save 6 5+ ward is for only 5 points more... Especially when you can have 200 pts of items & bloodlines...

W0lf
27-01-2008, 20:34
You still pay the points for those bloodlines!

Oh and i suggest you take a closer look at bloodlines.

For example to make a hero level vampire wear heavy armour and have a Gw or shield whilst being a lvl 2 you use all 50pts of your bllod line allowance.

What other wizards pay 50 pts for lvl 2 (35pts normally) and HA, Shield (about 6 pts).

People seem to forget that you have to pay for your bloodlines, also with the 200 pts of bloodlines hes still only on par with current vampire lords.

snyggejygge
27-01-2008, 22:26
You however seem to forget how many wizards in the game that actually can wear armour, not to mention fight as well, Iīm not saying that being able to have 200 pts of items is wrong, I just donīt want a return to herohammer, so negative armoursaves along w. dozens of attacks isnīt a thing I like, even if you do pay points for it, how many troops will even be able to hurt a guy w. a negative armoursave, even charging knights or Ironguts w. S6 allows a 2+ armoursave.

I donīt know the exact wording of the item, nobody here does, but I just find it strange that you would be able to wear 2 armours (against the rules) & carry a shield for easy access to such a thing as a negative armoursave (right now I think no other army but Lizardmen can do it & they pay 70 pts for it, while you would pay around 65 pts & get a 5+ ward at the same time, balanced??).

Neknoh
27-01-2008, 22:32
Since you actually take stuff from your Bloodlines AND magical items, preventing you to buy much more than, say, Red Fury and a decent weapon? Yes, especially considering that there are actually quite a bit of doh-dahs you want on VC characters.

It's much like costumising a Daemonprince if you'd be allowed to pick from every gift-section and only have 100 points to do so. Oh, and if you want to have a tougher prince, it'll cost you a quarter of your allowance. And you aren't wearing two armours, you are wearing one armour that you add too. Come on, how can you argue that wearing two armours is odd when a medieval Plate Armour suit could (or would) incorporate:

Padded cloth
Leather
Chainmail
Plate

I count:
Light Armour
Light Armour
Light Armour
Heavy Armour

Besides, Beastmen have such an item, is it odd that you can wear a huge coat of furr ontop of your armour? I'd say no. Is it odd that most things with Scaly Skinn can wear armour? I'd say no again.
It's an armour designed to work on it's own AND with other armour. It's magical.

smasha2
28-01-2008, 03:31
Carmen the insane, Lord of the Pit

Powers:
Red Fury: each wound dealt generates an extra attack, these extra attacks cannot generate extra attacks. cannot be combined with great weapon. (lances ok though!) 50pts

infinite Hatred: Re-roll all missed To hit rolls. 25 pts

Summon Creatures of the Night: Raise Dire wolves, Batswarms And fell bats beyond starting size, gain +1 raised. 15pts

Items:
Balefire Spike 10pts
Lance, attacks are flaming.

Walach's Bloody Hauberk 45 pts
gain 4+ save that can be combined with other stuff, also 5+ ward.

Staff of damnation 40pts
Bound 3, all friendly undead with in 12" make a single attack. roll a die each time it is used, breaks on a 1.

Zombie dragon ?pts


Volum the advisor, Carmen's brother and general

Powers:
Master of the dark arts: two extra power dice every phase. 50pts

Dark Acolyte: gain magic level. 30pts

Lord of the dead: Raise skeltons beyond their starting number gain +1 on number raised. 15pts.

Items:
Flayed Hauberk 25pts
2+ save that cannot be improved.

Sword of Kings 25pts
gains killing blow, wightkings gain killing blow on 5+

Wristbands of Black Gold 30pts
3+ ward save against all ranged attacks. magic missles, templates etc.

Talisman of the Lycni 10pts
Vampire only. Vampire gains move 9.

smasha2
28-01-2008, 03:36
sorry edit on carmen

no summon creatures of the night but add avatar of death with HA AND SHIELD

snyggejygge
28-01-2008, 07:42
No I know there are a few things which you can combine w. normal armour (usually helmets), what I think is odd is that all other such items grants a 6+ save & a small bonus, I wouldnīt hesitate ablout the hauberk at all if it gave a 6+ save, but a 4+, thatīs a good armoursave on its own, thatīs why I hesitate, 45 pts for a 4+ save (usually 10-15 pts) along w. a 5+ ward (usually around 30 pts) & then you can combine it!?
I will use the Hauberk, I think itīs a great item, when mounted & having a shield you have a 1+ save, which is great, I just doubt so very much that you can add in heavy armour on top of that to so easily gain a negative armoursave, which as we know, curently only one army can do, & they pay a lot for it...

Jack of Blades
28-01-2008, 07:49
Well you can... the whole point of it is that it indeed IS very good protection. Just because it's good doesn't mean the developers didn't intend for it to be so :)

heinrichvoncarstein
28-01-2008, 11:14
Oh and a 1+ save and 5+ ward for 65 pts is hardly a bargain...

I agree. The empire can get it for forty points or something

Jack of Blades
28-01-2008, 14:04
Muhahaha, I just made an incredibly evil combination.

Hand of Dust
Accursed Armour
Black Periapt
Infinite Hatred
Walking Death
Forbidden Lore; Lore of Beasts
Summon Ghouls
Lvl 3 Wizard

Just imagine it. If he gets Bear's Anger off on himself (not hard with the 4/4 bound items I have picked), he's T7 with 7 attacks at S7. The loss of WS is made up by the ability to re-roll all failed to hit rolls. He has the Black Periapt to save the odd PD or to load up for the phase he casts Bear's Anger in, he gives +1 to the CR of the combat he is in, he can summon ghouls and has the hand of dust.

That's an average of 7 S5 automatical shooting hits and 7 S7 attacks that can be re-rolled to hit. It's simply amazing. :)

Latro
28-01-2008, 15:26
Muhahaha, I just made an incredibly evil combination.

Hand of Dust
Accursed Armour
Black Periapt
Infinite Hatred
Walking Death
Forbidden Lore; Lore of Beasts
Summon Ghouls
Lvl 3 Wizard

Just imagine it. If he gets Bear's Anger off on himself (not hard with the 4/4 bound items I have picked), he's T7 with 7 attacks at S7. The loss of WS is made up by the ability to re-roll all failed to hit rolls. He has the Black Periapt to save the odd PD or to load up for the phase he casts Bear's Anger in, he gives +1 to the CR of the combat he is in, he can summon ghouls and has the hand of dust.

That's an average of 7 S5 automatical shooting hits and 7 S7 attacks that can be re-rolled to hit. It's simply amazing. :)

It looks awsome, but just isn't very practical if you ask me ...

- Your most important and strongest magic user will be stuck with Lore of Beasts ... tough luck on the rest of your army I guess (and wasted points on Summon Ghouls)

- The Bear's Anger is a remains in play spell, which means your very expensive level 3 magic user will not be able to cast anything else will being angry as a bear.

- Charging goes before magic ... if you charge a magic user with the Lore of Beasts into combat you can be fairly sure your opponent (who knows your spells anyway) will save a dice or two for that spell. (And why not? It's not as if your very expensive level 3 magic user with the Lore of Beasts will be casting a lot of threatening spells from his new position in the middle of combat.)

... I just don't see how it can work. (Apart from the very cinematic image of a Vampire going berserk, bursting from his own skin, growing huge claws and stuff ... hmmmm :evilgrin:)


:cool:

Jack of Blades
28-01-2008, 15:39
Yep, took that away and added another GG for the cost I think they will cost.

I'm a melee kind of guy with my Lord. Besides, with this amount of magic I don't expect that much to get through anyway (can you honestly tell me this list has a good amount of magic?)

Meh :)

Precisely! that's what leads me to pick my characters. It's the movies and images that count. :skull:

Neknoh
28-01-2008, 16:57
I'm suprised you didn't throw a Red Fury in there instead of your other powers, I simply fail to see how it'd be worse than Summon Ghouls?

Jack of Blades
28-01-2008, 17:17
I'm suprised you didn't throw a Red Fury in there instead of your other powers, I simply fail to see how it'd be worse than Summon Ghouls?

Well, IIRC it only applies to the base profile attacks. Plus, I don't get Infinite Hatred (with WS4 I think I need it), nor Beguile (if that character fails the test, it's basically dead). Anyway I updated it and I think this is my final setup, made a list too.

snyggejygge
28-01-2008, 22:26
I agree. The empire can get it for forty points or something

For starters itīs not a 1+save, itīs a negative -1+ save & a ward for 65 pts, also Empire pay 60 points for it, not 40 or something...

Can we just drop this discussion til the book is out, then we can easily see who was right, instead of just saying that you think it is an exception of the normal rules...

Like that build Jack, will look forward to hear how it works!

heinrichvoncarstein
29-01-2008, 12:50
I HAVE GREAT NEWS MY FELLOW VC FRIENDS: I HAVE FOUND A WAY TO MAKE MY COUNT IMPOSSIBLE TO KILL(say this in your most bruce almighty'ish way as possible)

You give him the carstein ring and the talisman of lycni or a horse, and stick him and 2 vamp thralls in with your blood knights. The first thrall has blood drinker, horse and red fury, the other one has the drakenhof banner. AND the knights have the flag of blood keep.
This gives the count a 4+ regeneration save, a 4+ ward against shooting, each time he looses a wound the thrall can heal it if he/she causes a wound, they can heal themselves with magic and let's not forget that the count has the carstein ring.

Jack of Blades
29-01-2008, 13:55
Congratulations! :)

I suppose you could give them all the Dread Knight and Infinite Hatred powers (aww no red fury) and put them in that unit... I know I wouldn't want it coming down the middle. Or well I would, because I created my unit of 50 Zombies for two purposes. One, tying up units like that and two, because I love Zombies. :P

Yes, you'd probably obliterate around half the unit but hey... after that, you're tied (*cough* raise more zombies and charge them in *cough*)

Kamaitachi
30-01-2008, 10:17
Hello to everyone (im a New Here but not in WFB :D)
my Count:
3lev,Red Fury,Infinite Hatred,Walking Dead,Talisman of The Lycni,
Sword of Might,Crown of The Damned,Book of Arkhan
basic idea is to keep him in unit untill i can but that M9 to good use. Not real Lord killer but he can break units alone (+1 CR from Walking Dead and around 5~6 wonds to RnF at first round of combat) not to mention war machines ^^
any thoughts could this work?

lector#1
30-01-2008, 14:56
MANNFRED the model looks cool and being severely beaten into the ground by the old model i cant wait to see the new rules for this guy.

other wise i would have vamp count on nightmare and then lots of combat offensive wargear

W0lf
30-01-2008, 16:38
Anyone else feeling red fury will become the 'must have' untill everyone realises VCs dont need kills as losing combat really really isnt game breaking like it is for every other unit with a 400+pt character in.

Jack of Blades
30-01-2008, 16:41
Agreed, it's just that imo Red Fury is a safer bet than MotDA. Two power dice means a better magic phase, but it could also cast a miscast and the spell still might not go off.

Ideally, I'd want the Frostblade, Beguile, Master of the Dark Arts, Infinite Hatred and Dark Acolyte, though...
I've got the image of some guy wearing a huge, long and ice-blue transparent blade with black clothes, wings, a mask, a gigantic frame and some sparks in his left hand. That translates into Frostblade, Flying Horror, Beguile and probably Infinite Hatred, so we'll see about my final setup. I don't want to make too much before the book is out though.

W0lf
30-01-2008, 16:48
Im currently concerned at how much my Characters will cost :S

My chaos tzeentch army has a solid 50% of points invested in characters. I dont want to replicate this again tbh.

Jack of Blades
30-01-2008, 16:59
I'm also kinda worried by it. But with too little magic, then what's the point?
Could take a unit of Black Knights (5/6 of them depending on the cost of the banner) with standard, musician and banner for under/about the same/slightly higher cost than a single thrall.

Having to spend that amount on characters... just don't appeal to me. I want my lord to be a true monster, but I want my other characters to support the units, not be some kind of Naghûl.

Mouldsta
30-01-2008, 22:48
I HAVE GREAT NEWS MY FELLOW VC FRIENDS: I HAVE FOUND A WAY TO MAKE MY COUNT IMPOSSIBLE TO KILL(say this in your most bruce almighty'ish way as possible)

You give him the carstein ring and the talisman of lycni or a horse, and stick him and 2 vamp thralls in with your blood knights. The first thrall has blood drinker, horse and red fury, the other one has the drakenhof banner. AND the knights have the flag of blood keep.
This gives the count a 4+ regeneration save, a 4+ ward against shooting, each time he looses a wound the thrall can heal it if he/she causes a wound, they can heal themselves with magic and let's not forget that the count has the carstein ring.

Don't think blood drinker lets you transfer wounds regained onto another character, but might be wrong on that. You forgot to give him the cadaverous cuirass so he's immune to poison/killing blow :)

heinrichvoncarstein
31-01-2008, 14:22
If it is my lord we are talkng about i would give him sword of might instead of cadaverous cuirass.

You take all the fun out of having fun:mad: *shakes fist* :mad:
;)

logan054
10-02-2008, 15:08
No I know there are a few things which you can combine w. normal armour (usually helmets), what I think is odd is that all other such items grants a 6+ save & a small bonus, I wouldnīt hesitate ablout the hauberk at all if it gave a 6+ save, but a 4+, thatīs a good armoursave on its own, thatīs why I hesitate, 45 pts for a 4+ save (usually 10-15 pts) along w. a 5+ ward (usually around 30 pts) & then you can combine it!?
I will use the Hauberk, I think itīs a great item, when mounted & having a shield you have a 1+ save, which is great, I just doubt so very much that you can add in heavy armour on top of that to so easily gain a negative armoursave, which as we know, curently only one army can do, & they pay a lot for it...

As far as i know the only way you can combine multiple armour is one suit, one shield and one helm.

Jack of Blades
10-02-2008, 16:04
Well not anymore :D
WBH is a really nice item if you want to have a huge armour save, I mean 1+ save (if you go with AoD/Mounted with a 5+ ward!

snyggejygge
10-02-2008, 20:10
I still doubt you can combine it w. heavy armour, +1 to save (from 5+ to 4+) is usually 10-15 pts, 5+ ward is 30 points, seems like 40 pts is balanced IF you cannot wear it in combination w. mundane armour, not to mention that it breaks the core rules...
Still a really great item though.

I think I will try & keep my Count a little cheaper, Flayed Hauberk is a nice enough protection, combine it w. Sword of Might & the +1CR bloodline & he will do good enough in combat, then Iīll add Dark Acolyte & Lord of the dead for some spellcasting.

Jack of Blades
10-02-2008, 20:13
I still say it can be combined with other Armour. That's what it says, but you seem to be a very stubborn person (you should start Dwarfs) so I'll let it go :p

Yes indeed. The test with the new VC book will be keeping your characters cheap and efficient, so you get some points to spend on the rest of your army. There are so many temptations though. Btw, may I recommend Infinite Hatred instead of Walking Death? its usefulness compared to +1 CR is higher, because it helps against characters too and can potentially reduce the amount of return attacks your unit gets at you - which could save you the CR point you are spending on Walking Death anyway (since they don't get another +1 from a kill).

If you want some real spellcasting, go with Master of the Dark Arts, Infinite Hatred, Lord of the Dead, Biting Blade, Skullstaff and Flayed Hauberk. He can hold his own in combat, will die to a determined character (he probably would anyway though, so big deal) but raises things like a Necromancer with 6 Power Familiars. Just make sure you put in the Helm of Commandment and Book of Arkhan (as well as possibly the Staff of Damnation) too :)

snyggejygge
11-02-2008, 11:25
Well Iīm stubborn in the matter that it breaks a rule & comes so very cheap at the same time, had it cost more like 60 pts I wouldnīt even think about it...

Thatīs a magic heavy setup indeed, but it costs a lot of points, I donīt want him to cost too much, I will however think about Infinite Hatred, itīs just that everybody knows how good warbanner is & this is essentially a walking warbanner, Iīll try it out a few games & sees what works best for me.

BTW I donīt like playing gunlines or armies w.out much tactics so Dwarfs are a nono;)

eleveninches
11-02-2008, 14:50
Lord lv3 (red fury, infinite hatred, walking death, talisman of lycnii, wristbands of black gold, flayed hauberk, +1 HW, book of arkhan)

lv1 Vamp (fly, raise wolves, terrorblade, heavy armour, enchanted shield)
lv1 Vamp (+2 power dice, helm of commandment, powerstone, heavy armour, +1 HW)

Corpse Cart (balefire spike)
6 Wolves
6 Wolves
6 Wolves
6 Wolves
40 Zombies
40 Zombies

5 Blood Knights (standard, 4+ ward vs missiles)

HalfEvil333
11-02-2008, 15:21
Not one I plan on using, but an interesting combo:
Lord w/ lvl 3 wizard upgrade, Dark Acolyte, Master of the Dark Arts, Lord of the Dead, Skullstaff, and Crown of Damnation.

Gives the Lord 6 power dice + the 2 for the army for a total of 8; and when casting Invoc on Skellie units, it'll go off on a 2+. Expensive character, but he can spam a crap load of easy Invocs to pump up units each turn.

eleveninches
11-02-2008, 15:27
I thought that invokation only had the 7+ casting value now, and that the multiple power levels of it had been removed, so no 3+ casting. am i wrong?

HalfEvil333
11-02-2008, 15:34
It now has a casting value of 4+, but it only heals D6 wounds to a unit, D6+4 zombies, and only 1 wound to non-infantry and/or Vampire models. And only Zombies can be raised beyond there starting unit size without the help of Bloodline powers. It also counts as a Necromancy spell, so you can cast it as many time per turn as you like.

snyggejygge
11-02-2008, 21:26
Not one I plan on using, but an interesting combo:
Lord w/ lvl 3 wizard upgrade, Dark Acolyte, Master of the Dark Arts, Lord of the Dead, Skullstaff, and Crown of Damnation.

Gives the Lord 6 power dice + the 2 for the army for a total of 8; and when casting Invoc on Skellie units, it'll go off on a 2+. Expensive character, but he can spam a crap load of easy Invocs to pump up units each turn.

The bloodline isnīt +1 to the casting value, but rather +1 to the amount of models summoned, so it wonīt work on 2+, besides the rulebook clearly states that a spell can never go off if you roll less than 3 on the dice....

Three Headed Monkey
12-02-2008, 00:14
Actually I thought that the bloodline power was +1 to cast. Check some of necronurgles posts in the tidbits thread. But you are right about the second bit. Yes, you get +2 to cast, but a total roll of a 1 or 2 before modifications will always fail. However it does mean that rolling the min casting value of 3 effectively makes it go off on a 5. Almost forcing your opponent to use two dispel dice instead of one if he wants to dispel.

Very handy none the less.

What do people think of this: Vampire BSB with the Drakenhoff Banner (regen) with walking death, in a unit of twenty grave guard with HW and shields with the warbanner. That is a static combat resolution of eight, if they outnumber. Plus they will be extremely tough to kill with T4, a 3+ save and regeneration. Also, they can be resurected. So they are entirely capable of nullifying most CR gained from the kills of their opponent. Is this not one of the best static CR and CR denial units in the game or what? Although it crops in at around 550 points.

I thought about taking great weapons with the regen banner to provide protection while they strike, but the focus of the unit is about retaining massive static CR through kill denial. Why move from that focus for more points? They get three S5 attacks from the vamp anyway, who is also protected by the banner.

Thoughts? Too much? Too expensive? Or is it enough of a unit that you really do not want to face accross the board from you that it is worth it?

perrin23860
12-02-2008, 00:46
i dont think its too much. in fact i've played just such a unit, and it did quite nicely. the only difference i did was to give the bsb avatar of death, so that he had some armor along with his regen save. with the regen baner, he's got a bullseye on him for others to try to take him down. hwp/shield plus heavy armor is good protection with the regen banner.

HalfEvil333
12-02-2008, 02:29
The bloodline isnīt +1 to the casting value, but rather +1 to the amount of models summoned, so it wonīt work on 2+, besides the rulebook clearly states that a spell can never go off if you roll less than 3 on the dice....

You're right, I had forgotten about the min die-roll required on casting. I believe it is to the Casting roll though, but I'd have to recheck. Either way, it's still helping you to raise a lot of Skeletons.

Three Headed Monkey
12-02-2008, 03:19
i dont think its too much. in fact i've played just such a unit, and it did quite nicely. the only difference i did was to give the bsb avatar of death, so that he had some armor along with his regen save. with the regen baner, he's got a bullseye on him for others to try to take him down. hwp/shield plus heavy armor is good protection with the regen banner.

Ah, of course. I knew I forgot something. Yup, there is no point making him easier to kill than the R&F around him. It just paints a bigger target on him.

Captain Ahab
12-02-2008, 03:31
In my 1000 point list I was thinking about having a vampire with lord of death, avatar of death, talisman of proctection, and hand of dust, and putting him in a unit of skeletons. You guys think this is okay? I don't know how many of you have access to the new book like I do, but if you do please comment, I am new to fantasy so bombs away.

eleveninches
12-02-2008, 10:39
It now has a casting value of 4+, but it only heals D6 wounds to a unit, D6+4 zombies, and only 1 wound to non-infantry and/or Vampire models. And only Zombies can be raised beyond there starting unit size without the help of Bloodline powers. It also counts as a Necromancy spell, so you can cast it as many time per turn as you like. Youre confusing the spells. Raise dead is cast on 5+ and raises 4+D3 zombies. Invkation has a casting value of 7+ if i remember correctly

Khamoz
12-02-2008, 11:49
My lord will probably be

Lvl 3
+1 Lvl
Forbidden Lore
Skull Staff

or

The cookie-cutter (possibly 100 points in total for items/powers, yay)
Lvl 3
Red Fury
Dreadlance or Infinite Hatred
Flayed Hauberk / cad cuirass+ench shield
Riding something, switching between the armors for a 2+

Three Headed Monkey
12-02-2008, 13:18
Youre confusing the spells. Raise dead is cast on 5+ and raises 4+D3 zombies. Invkation has a casting value of 7+ if i remember correctly

No he's not. Invocation is cast on a 4+ and heals D6 on target undead infantry unit or one wound on a cavalry, vampire or multiwound model. Check the rumour round up. You are the only person saying 7+ so where did you get your info from? Several people who have the book (not just seen it, but have it) are saying 4+.

heinrichvoncarstein
12-02-2008, 13:23
why not fill up the whole magic items limit to make the "cookie cutter" even better?
Suggestion:
lvl 3
Red Fury
Dread Knight(gives him a 2+ save)
Hellsteed
Infinite Hatred
Walach's Bloody Hauberk
Balefire Spike
Gem of Blood
Cursed Book

Veland
12-02-2008, 14:10
A vampire lord which is both a good caster and fighter:
Vampire lord 3 mlvl.
Powers: Red fury, Master of the Dark Arts.
Items: Flayed Hauberk, Skull staff, Balefire Spike.

The idea is to mount him on a normal nightmare and join a unit of Black Knights with the Royal Banner of Strigos. He has then 4 flaming attacks, re-rolls hits with S5 (S7 on the charge) and gains an additional attack for every unsaved wound. He also has 2+ armor save. He's a lvl 3 spellcaster generating 5 dice and received +1 to each casting and dispelling attempt.

The drawback is his cost: 465 pts. The lack of ward save is his weakness.

What do you guys think about it?

McBaine
12-02-2008, 14:32
cad cuirass+ench shield
You cant give him two items from the magic armor section, the enchanted Shield is no longer an exception to that in 7th edition.

My Lord will be :
Vampire Lord
lvl 3
Items : Sword of might or Cursed book depends on army,enchanted shield, crown of the damned, Book of Arkhan
Powers : Dread Knight, Red Fury, Walking Death.

eleveninches
12-02-2008, 14:47
No he's not. Invocation is cast on a 4+ and heals D6 on target undead infantry unit or one wound on a cavalry, vampire or multiwound model. Check the rumour round up. You are the only person saying 7+ so where did you get your info from? Several people who have the book (not just seen it, but have it) are saying 4+.
My bad :( I must be mistaken

eleveninches
12-02-2008, 14:50
Lord lv3 (red fury, infinite hatred, walking death, talisman of lycnii, wristbands of black gold, enchanted shield, heavy armour, Blooddrinker)

rathnutt1
12-02-2008, 16:45
The lord of dead, raise ghouls, and raise creatures of the night add +1 to the amount rolled not to the casting roll. Official. From the book. Sorry.

Lord_Crull
13-02-2008, 21:27
Level Three
Blood Drinker
Flayed Hauberk
Black Pheript
Infinite Hatred
Lord of the Dead
Master of the Dark Arts
370-pts

OR

Level Three
Sword of Might
Crown of the Damned
Flayed Hauberk
Black Pheript
Infinite Hatred
Lord of the Dead
Master of the Dark Arts
380-pts

snyggejygge
13-02-2008, 22:56
Just thought of something, you say that Walachīs Bloody hauberk can be combined w. heavy armour, because the wording says, can be combined w. other armour as normal, then what about the following armours:

Rust armour & Warpstone armour, both of these are magical armours from the skavenlist & both say that they can be combined w. other armour as normal, would you say that these can be combined w. heavy armour as well??

Because Iīm 100 % sure they canīt & yet they have the same wording as the Bloody hauberk...

While the few items I have found that can be combined (magic & normal armour) has the following wording: May be worn in ADDITION to normal armour.

Meaning Walach's Bloody hauberk canīt be combined w. heavy armour, just as I thought (& others have pointed out as well, only really 2 guys arguing against me, but they scream louder;))

Sorry for bringing this up, I know itīs offtopic, but I knew I was right & this is the proof, no -1+ save for those few points, nor a 1+ save on foot, itīs still great to be able to have a 3+ save & a 5+ward for such a low cost (& that is when not mounted, you get a nice 1+save when mounted) & the pointscost better reflects this as well.

Jampire
14-02-2008, 03:19
Don't have my list with me, so I don't remember how my Lord's equipped. But I do remember my Thrall!

Thrall:
Spectral Form
Talisman of Lycni
Skabscrath

I wanted to have a flying terror causing Thrall, but the points limit won't allow it. Hmm? What to do? Aha! Spectral form + Talisman + Skabscrath allows 18' movement ignoring terrain. With ethereal = better than flying!
Plan on using him to run up enemy flanks causing terror and killing wizards/war machine crew. But... He'll be almost worthless against another VC player unless he's using Wraiths...

Found my List!

Lord
Red Fury
Avatar of Death
Infinite Hatred
Flayed Hauberk
Black Periapt
+1 Magic level.
With Avatar of Death I'm basically paying 20 points for a GS, but I just can't help myself! Should probably switch it for Sword of Might, but what can you do?

snyggejygge
14-02-2008, 06:54
Ooohh I like that thrall, can be very nasty agains unprepared opponents.

Just wondering, how many plan on still using necromancers in their armies?

Cromenon
14-02-2008, 07:34
What about this one?

Lvl 3 (not bloodline)

Red Fury
Forbidden Lore

DreadLance
Accursed Armour


Hellsteed/Nightmare whatever is called now.

This combo gives him a total armour save of 4+, T6, low WS but attacks that automatically hit and Red Fury.

Also, he's a level 3 caster with potential acces to 5 dice and can choose whatever lore he wants (but Life).

What do you guys think?:evilgrin:

HalfEvil333
14-02-2008, 07:46
Ooohh I like that thrall, can be very nasty agains unprepared opponents.

Just wondering, how many plan on still using necromancers in their armies?

I'm not, but I've never really liked Necromancers in the first place. That's why I'm glad they decided to make all Vampires casters, though making them better casters than Necros is a bit harsh.

Three Headed Monkey
14-02-2008, 08:15
I think I will take one to be a scroll caddy. He's a pretty cheap dispel dice who can also get a few spells off. If I dont roll danse on my lord I will probably let the necro take it. I will try him out in a few games to see if he is worth it.

Jack of Blades
14-02-2008, 08:25
Just thought of something, you say that Walachīs Bloody hauberk can be combined w. heavy armour, because the wording says, can be combined w. other armour as normal, then what about the following armours:

Rust armour & Warpstone armour, both of these are magical armours from the skavenlist & both say that they can be combined w. other armour as normal, would you say that these can be combined w. heavy armour as well??

Because Iīm 100 % sure they canīt & yet they have the same wording as the Bloody hauberk...

While the few items I have found that can be combined (magic & normal armour) has the following wording: May be worn in ADDITION to normal armour.

Meaning Walach's Bloody hauberk canīt be combined w. heavy armour, just as I thought (& others have pointed out as well, only really 2 guys arguing against me, but they scream louder;))

Sorry for bringing this up, I know itīs offtopic, but I knew I was right & this is the proof, no -1+ save for those few points, nor a 1+ save on foot, itīs still great to be able to have a 3+ save & a 5+ward for such a low cost (& that is when not mounted, you get a nice 1+save when mounted) & the pointscost better reflects this as well.

Yup, of course they can be combined. What would be the point in ''can be combined with normal armour'' if you couldn't wear it in addition to normal armour? You must also remember that there's a fair bit of time between the Skaven and VC books.

Yes it can. Again, what would be the point in ''can be combined with normal armour'' if you couldn't combine it with normal armour? It doesn't matter if it says that it's heavy armour, light armour or no armour either. If it can be combined with normal armour (through any wording, because there are different wordings), then it can be combined with any and all normal armour.

You aren't right though :p. If you were right, then what would be the point in saying it can be combined with normal armour? shields can be combined anyway and there are no other options. It's just obvious.

I know you really don't want to believe it, but it's true. And once again, if it can't be combined then what can it be combined with?

I want a FAQ on this though, but I'll expect it to confirm my ''theory''.

Jagosaja
14-02-2008, 09:58
Can Bloody Hauberk be combined with Enchanted Shield?

If it can, give the buddy Dread Knight, and you have a -2+ Armor Save :D

snyggejygge
14-02-2008, 10:56
Yup, of course they can be combined. What would be the point in ''can be combined with normal armour'' if you couldn't wear it in addition to normal armour? You must also remember that there's a fair bit of time between the Skaven and VC books.

Yes it can. Again, what would be the point in ''can be combined with normal armour'' if you couldn't combine it with normal armour? It doesn't matter if it says that it's heavy armour, light armour or no armour either. If it can be combined with normal armour (through any wording, because there are different wordings), then it can be combined with any and all normal armour.

You aren't right though :p. If you were right, then what would be the point in saying it can be combined with normal armour? shields can be combined anyway and there are no other options. It's just obvious.

I know you really don't want to believe it, but it's true. And once again, if it can't be combined then what can it be combined with?

I want a FAQ on this though, but I'll expect it to confirm my ''theory''.

Then I suggest you guys read the rulebook, as it is very clear about you wearing 2 armours, you simply canīt, there are other magic armours that has the same wording as well, yet this is the first time I have ever seen anyone saying that an armour can be combined w. normal armour because of that wording, it doesnīt say in addition like other armour which can be combined, this IN ADDITION is very important, that also means that this armour can be used w. other armour just as normal, ie meaning you can combine it w. a shield...
You try doing it at a tournament & they would just laugh at you, I asked this question on a few other warhammer forums Iīm a regular on, just to hear what they thought & everybody agreed that you canīt combine a normal & magic armour unless it says in addition, they also said that I shouldnīt listen to guys on warseer, because 99% of them interpret the rules like they want them to be & not like the rulebook says & that is really what Iīm noticing now....

@Jagosaja: Well as I said above you canīt get a -1+ save w. that armour & even IF you could, it wouldnīt be possible to get a -2+save as you canīt combine Enchanted shield w. magic armour.

You guys go ahead & combine it, but when your opponent accuses you of cheating or they laugh up your face, remember who was right...

Jagosaja
14-02-2008, 12:19
No need to be angry, I won't use Bloody Hauberk and Enchanted Shield, gee...
:)

Jagosaja
14-02-2008, 12:22
OK, now if you cannot use any other armor with Walach's Bloody Hauberk, and it says that it can be combined, what can we combine it with? We obviously don't have any helm in armor section. Other magic armors can be normally used with shields, so why put free combining rule there, when we can't use it with anything else? Could it be possible... that somebody else... may be right? NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!

Jagosaja
14-02-2008, 12:31
they also said that I shouldnīt listen to guys on warseer, because 99% of them interpret the rules like they want them to be & not like the rulebook says & that is really what Iīm noticing now...

OK :wtf:

Why are you reading this now? :confused:
We are on Warseer, right? Why are you still listening, then?

Where in rulebook does it say that guys on Warseer are wrong, and people on other forums are right? :p

snyggejygge
14-02-2008, 12:40
OK, now if you cannot use any other armor with Walach's Bloody Hauberk, and it says that it can be combined, what can we combine it with? We obviously don't have any helm in armor section. Other magic armors can be normally used with shields, so why put free combining rule there, when we can't use it with anything else? Could it be possible... that somebody else... may be right? NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!

As it doesnīt count as a certain type of armour, it needs the phrase can be combined w. other armour as normal, to be able to combine it w. a shield, otherwise somebody could just say you canīt, it is very clear, but you guys just canīt read the rulebook...

Three Headed Monkey
14-02-2008, 12:43
OK, now if you cannot use any other armor with Walach's Bloody Hauberk, and it says that it can be combined, what can we combine it with? We obviously don't have any helm in armor section. Other magic armors can be normally used with shields, so why put free combining rule there, when we can't use it with anything else? Could it be possible... that somebody else... may be right? NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!

It can be combined with a mundane shield, hand weapon and shield, a steed or barded steed.

That is it.

Walach's Bloody Hauberk is armour. You cannot wear two suits of armour. You can buy avatar of death and use the shield hand weapon bonus with it, but it will replace the normal heavy armour, not stack on top of it.

Also, dont double (triple, in this case) post. If you have something more to add, just edit your post and put the new stuff in.

Jagosaja
14-02-2008, 12:43
Wait!!! I found an answer! If you look at the p.107 of the rulebook, under casting spells, second paragraph, it says that we can cast each spell only once. Then it must mean that overrides our necromancy rule. Damn! No more multiple casting.

Of course, this is crap. Therefore, if it says we can combine, it means we can combine WBH with other stuff. As simple as that.

If you still disagree, than don't ever again take ordinary shield with any of you magic armor since it does not say that it can be combined with other stuff.

Jagosaja
14-02-2008, 12:50
...but you guys just canīt read the rulebook...

You really don't need such an attitude, nobody is trying to mock you, so don't mock at us. We are trying to prove the point, and my cynism is an answer to your aggression. Calm down, please, and instead of being arrogant, constructively try to explain what is the difference between the statement that it can be combined, and when it says nothing?


Also, dont double (triple, in this case) post. If you have something more to add, just edit your post and put the new stuff in.

OK, sorry.

snyggejygge
14-02-2008, 12:50
Thank you Three Headed Monkey finally someone who can see things the right way.

As for your example, the necromancy spells clearly state that it works differently than normal spells, the armour doesnīt say anything like that, youīre just being childish...

Edit: When an armour doesnīt specifically say you can combine it, then it either says that it counts as something, such as counts as heavy armour, thatīs the difference.

Three Headed Monkey
14-02-2008, 12:51
Wait!!! I found an answer! If you look at the p.107 of the rulebook, under casting spells, second paragraph, it says that we can cast each spell only once. Then it must mean that overrides our necromancy rule. Damn! No more multiple casting.

Of course, this is crap. Therefore, if it says we can combine, it means we can combine WBH with other stuff. As simple as that.

If you still disagree, than don't ever again take ordinary shield with any of you magic armor since it does not say that it can be combined with other stuff.


I know one even better! Why dont I take avatar of death, then an enchanted shield, and because the enchanted shield says it can be combined with other light armour, why dont I carry two shields?!?!?!?! So I get HW + shield bonus, heavy armour and the enchanted shield to make to 2+!! Because the rulebook doesnt actually say that the enchanted shield replaces a normal shield! YAY!!!

</sarcasm>

"If a character wears magical armour, he cannot also wear ordinary armour, and needless to say, can only wear one set of armour."

For a army book to override that it would need to explicitly state that the magical armour in question does not replace the mandane armour and can be stacked with it. "combine with other armour as normal" does not fit this criteria. Get it now?

For another example, the rules for the enchanted shield says it can be combined with mundane armour (in what appears to be a similar way as Walach's bloody hauberk, although we cannot say for sure as we are argueing about rules we have not actually read for ourselves, yet), but you obviously cannot combine both a mundane shield and a magical shield because of the above quote.

And again, please refrain from double posting.

Jack of Blades
14-02-2008, 13:12
All right, so what can it be combined with? you still haven't answered that. Any magic armour can be combined with mundane shields, barded steeds etc so that doesn't count.

I guess you will argue that the Ogre Armour can't be combined with other mundane armour either? If it says ''can be combined with other equipment'' then it quite obviously means that it can be combined with other equipment, as there is no rule prohibiting you from taking for example a Shield because you have Magical Armour. However much you want the BRB to override an army book, this is what it says.

However by your theory one might argue that not even armour which you say may be worn 'in addition' to normal armour cannot be used together with normal armour, since the Rulebook says you can't use magical armour together with normal armour? :rolleyes:


Once again, if it can't be combined with normal armour then what can it be combined with?

Three Headed Monkey
14-02-2008, 13:41
Are we still talking about the Walach's bloody hauberk? As I said, steeds, and mundane shields. How do they not count as normal armour? How are they not enough? Remember in this case we dont have a VC rule book someone may have just paraphrased the words in a wierd way. It may say "normally". The BRB is very clear, you cannot wear two items of armour unless one of them is a shield and then only if at least one is mundane.

You need very specific wording to override that. "can be combined with other equipment", especially if the words "as normal" follow that statement, really isnt specific enough to overrule the BRB. Check out the wording for any helmets you may have seen for an example of what needs to be said. Although perhaps that is only mordheim.

Also, a hauberk is a suit of chainmail armour. Most armour in warhammer that can be combined with other suits of armour and whose rules are written such that they can be, are either shields, helmets, bucklers and wristbands. It just does not fit that Walach's bloody hauberk can be combined with normal armour as it is theoretically taking up the same space.

EDIT:
Ok, I just looked up the rules for the wailing helm. It says, gives a 6+ save and may be worn in addition to normal armour. As that can be combined with mundane heavy armour etc, if you are sure that the way the rules for Walach's bloody hauberk are written in the same way, and that can be verified who has the book, not just seen as memory can be impresise, then I will consede the point. But only if the description for the hauberk contains "may be worn in addition to normal armour". "Other equipment" just does not cut the mustard as it does not specify normal armour. Hence, it doesnt override the BRB. "Other equipment" can just mean shields, barding and steeds, and not normal mundane armour.

winkypinky
14-02-2008, 13:45
Can Bloody Hauberk be combined with Enchanted Shield?

If it can, give the buddy Dread Knight, and you have a -2+ Armor Save :D

I could be vey wrong on this.... but what is it that makes a vampire able to choose 2 magic armours? Arnt you only allowed 1 magic armour? No matter what "slot" on it takes.

-Just looked it up in the brb and even though I found it very long and a bit confusing I am pretty sure you can not have 2 magic armours like you can not have 2 enchanted items.

skilett
14-02-2008, 13:51
The reason Walachs Bloody Hauberk states it can be combined with other armour (barding, shield etc.) is that not all armour saves by magical armours can be improved. But that doesn't mean you can wear 2 sets of armour, and the hauberk is clearly an armour, as is heavy armour, therefore the two can't be combined.

Three Headed Monkey
14-02-2008, 14:00
The reason Walachs Bloody Hauberk states it can be combined with other armour (barding, shield etc.) is that not all armour saves by magical armours can be improved. But that doesn't mean you can wear 2 sets of armour, and the hauberk is clearly an armour, as is heavy armour, therefore the two can't be combined.

Thank you!

A good example of that is the cursed shield of mousillon (from the current VC book).

"Gives a 6+ armour save and may be combined with other equipment normally."

Does this mean you can also take a mundane shield? No, it does not, and the wording matches the example that Jack of Blades gave for the Bloody Hauberk, showing that the hauberk (at least the way we think it is written) cannot be worn in combination with heavy armour!

Jack of Blades
14-02-2008, 14:16
All right, but then why does it say it can be combined with other equipment? any armour can be combined with a shield, any armour can be combined with barding, that argument just doesn't hold together.

And yes it was paraphrased.


The reason Walachs Bloody Hauberk states it can be combined with other armour (barding, shield etc.) is that not all armour saves by magical armours can be improved. But that doesn't mean you can wear 2 sets of armour, and the hauberk is clearly an armour, as is heavy armour, therefore the two can't be combined.

Huh? if the armour save can't be improved then it will be stated (like the Flayed Hauberk). If it doesn't say that it's a light or heavy armour, or that it counts as armour, then I will still wait for a FAQ on this to be sure, because they had to put it somewhere in the Magic Items category and a Hauberk does resemble Armour most, so of course they're going to put it there.

And again I must ask, do you think that for example the Gut Maw (OK) can't be combined with mundane armour, even though it isn't listed as a specific kind of armour (ex. Light/Heavy Armour) and says ''can be combined with other equipment normally''? What would be the point in saying that if you couldn't combine it with anything that you cannot already combine with for example the Mastodon Armour (Ironfist for example)? And if it didn't say that it could be combined with other equipment normally, you'd just assume it wasn't actually any kind of armour but merely a gadget or something that improved your armour save, since it still isn't listed as a kind of armour etc.

Three Headed Monkey
14-02-2008, 14:32
All right, but then why does it say it can be combined with other equipment? any armour can be combined with a shield, any armour can be combined with barding, that argument just doesn't hold together.


I thought I just answered this. It says that it can be combined just so it is clear that it can in fact be combined with other equipment that generate armour saves besides the piece of armour that it replaced.




Huh? if the armour save can't be improved then it will be stated (like the Flayed Hauberk). If it doesn't say that it's a light or heavy armour, or that it counts as armour, then I will still wait for a FAQ on this to be sure, because they had to put it somewhere in the Magic Items category and a Hauberk does resemble Armour most, so of course they're going to put it there.

The flayed hauberk is a special case as nothing can improve the save. No shields, nothing. Infact, you can take a shield with the flayed hauberk. Nothing stopping you, its just that you wont get any advantage of doing so.




And again I must ask, do you think that for example the Gut Maw (OK) can't be combined with mundane armour, even though it isn't listed as a specific kind of armour (ex. Light/Heavy Armour) and says ''can be combined with other equipment normally''? What would be the point in saying that if you couldn't combine it with anything that you cannot already combine with for example the Mastodon Armour (Ironfist for example)? And if it didn't say that it could be combined with other equipment normally, you'd just assume it wasn't actually any kind of armour but merely a gadget or something that improved your armour save, since it still isn't listed as a kind of armour etc.

You cant because the combinations would just be silly. Are you seriously saying there is nothing wrong with getting a 3+ save from just having the flayed hauberk and a suit of heavy armour? Also, unless it says specifically, it is a piece of armour, not a gadget, so follows all the rules for magic armour, which includes the fact that normal armour cannot be worn with it. You cannot just assume it is something different. It has to say so. It is armour that replaces normal armour because it is in the magic armour section, so it needs wording similar to the wailing helm to be combined with normal armour. If it was an echanted item, then I can see your point, but it is not.

snyggejygge
14-02-2008, 14:39
From a GT FAQ:

Q. Can a Tyrant, Bruiser, or Hunter equipped with heavy or light armour
(note all three characters come with light armour as standard equipment) also
wear the Bullgut or Gut Maw? Or does selecting the Bullgut or Gut Maw replace
their mundane body armour (and leave them with only a 6+ armour save)?

A. They may be equipped with the Bullgut or Gut Maw in addition to their
mundane body armour as a gutplate isnīt a full armour. For example, a Tyrant equipped with Heavy Armour and the Gut Maw has a 4+ armour save.
S. Phil Kelly - Warhammer Design Team.

Thereīs the answer to that...

I suggest you read the rulebook about magic armours & check up the other items that can be used in addition w. normal armour.

Jack of Blades
14-02-2008, 14:40
^ All right, but then I was right after all. I was trying to come up with an explanation for that on this space, but I'll just not bother now.


Oh, so that sentence is in fact pointless and doesn't mean anything as magic armour can be combined with shields etc. anyway. Right. (that wasn't sarcastic btw)

As the flayed hauberk gives a 2+ save in the new book... uh... let's just skip that point. Yeah that's true, I concede that.

Overall this has been very confusing and I hope it will be cleared up, I think you're right now though. Why do they have to add so many confusing sentences everywhere... ''can be combined with other equipment'' :wtf:, it can be combined with other equipment regardless of what it was as long as it is under the magic items section, but no, someone just has to chuck that sentence in.

Cromenon
14-02-2008, 15:41
So, the final statement is that WBH can be combined with....? :)

skilett
14-02-2008, 16:04
WBH can be combined with mundane shield, barding and mounted bonus. Also a helmet, if you can find a mundane one... :)

Edit: Nearly forgot, handweapon/shield bonus.

Jack of Blades
14-02-2008, 16:19
No, the final statement (due to that GT FAQ) is:

This cannot be confirmed until the book is released, but for now we will assume that the WBH can indeed be combined with what magic armour cannot normally be combined with.

FYI, a Hauberk isn't full body armour. Plus, it can be worn in addition to other armour IRL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hauberk

snyggejygge
14-02-2008, 16:25
No a gutplate & a complete hauberk is 2 very different things, it can be combined w. shields & barded steeds, nothing else, just like normal armour.
Jack of Blades just canīt take being wrong, going by his logic would mean that most magic armours could be combined w. normal armour just because they can be combined w. other armour as NORMAL, there is no IN ADDITION in that wording like all armours, except gutplates, which can be combined w. normal armour has in its wording.

Jack of Blades
14-02-2008, 16:30
I can't take being wrong? I would have accepted being wrong had you not posted that FAQ (the ''you can't accept being wrong'' is a hypocritical statement btw).

It doesn't matter now though, now that you posted it. If it says 'can be combined with other equipment as normal' and it merely grants a save, then it can be combined with other armour. Wanna argue against that, argue against the FAQ and tell me why it should be any different for the Hauberk when the wording is the same (unless you're going to treat the same wording differently).

As I said though, none of this can be confirmed until the book is out. I'm just assuming the wording is like that.

Btw, that was also a poor attempt at mocking me. Even with the usually moronic thing of ''going by your logic (and then applying it to something taken out of context/the original writer didn't mean for it to be applied to)'', you failed. You just proved my point and yet you still try to argue?

snyggejygge
14-02-2008, 16:41
No, I wasnīt mocking you, why would I, I merely said that w. your logic, then you would be able to combine most armours & all skaven armours (which has the same wording which has been put out for Wallach's Bloody Hauberk), to get an easy 1+save for the same points as the Flayed Hauberk (which can get 2+ at best) & get a bonus to it as well!

You miss the in addition & the FAQ only states that the Gutplates can increase the save as they are not a full armour! While a hauberk indeed is a full body armour.

esit: typo

Jack of Blades
14-02-2008, 16:47
Ok, I give up. Neither of us are going to give in so let's just let this die and wait for an actual FAQ. Don't bother responding to this and saying ''but I'm right'', because I know you think so now and so do I (yes, I can still accept being wrong btw, but I seriously want this FAQ'ed).

Three Headed Monkey
15-02-2008, 01:47
It doesn't matter now though, now that you posted it. If it says 'can be combined with other equipment as normal' and it merely grants a save, then it can be combined with other armour. Wanna argue against that, argue against the FAQ and tell me why it should be any different for the Hauberk when the wording is the same (unless you're going to treat the same wording differently).


The supposed wording is the same as the cursed shield of mousillon (which I posted before) and you cannot combine that with a normal shield. So it is you that is treating the same wording differently. It needs to say "can be combined with normal armour" as on the wailing helm to be able to be combined with normal armour otherwise it follows the rules for magical armour as it is a piece of magical armour.

The point of saying "can be combined with other equipment as normal" is to prevent people argueing that the save granted by the magical armour cannot be combined with that from a shield, steed, barding and hand weapon and shield combo as it actually does not say that the saves granted from magical armour can be combined with other armour saves in the base rules for magical armour. Being able to carry both is different to being able to combine them. You can get two items that give ward saves (eg. from the bloody hauberk and talisman of protection) but you cannot combine the saves. In other words it means that we dont have to just assume that magical armour works the same as normal armour, as there is nothing in the rulebook that actually states this.

Jampire
15-02-2008, 01:50
The save from a Flayed Hauberk cannot be improved by any means. It states this in the items description.

As for normal armor and magic armor...
I'm just going to keep on playing it how I always have. Which is how Three Headed Monkey just explained it. I believe this is the correct way.

Edit: I'm retarded and thought you were discussing the Flayed Hauberk. Is this the same as the Bloody Hauberk and someone mis-typed the wording? Don't have the Book in front of me...

Three Headed Monkey
15-02-2008, 02:29
We are talking about Walach's bloody hauberk, which is a new magic item in the new VC rulebook. It is different to flayed hauberk, which remains, but becomes cheaper and now confers a 2+ save instead of a 1+ save. It still cant be combined with anything else.

Walach's Bloody Hauberk gives a 5+ save and a 5+ ward.

Nedar
15-02-2008, 03:10
We are talking about Walach's bloody hauberk, which is a new magic item in the new VC rulebook. It is different to flayed hauberk, which remains, but becomes cheaper and now confers a 2+ save instead of a 1+ save. It still cant be combined with anything else.

Walach's Bloody Hauberk gives a 5+ save and a 5+ ward.

4+ save and 5+ ward

Three Headed Monkey
15-02-2008, 03:20
Ah. cool. My mistake.

Jampire
15-02-2008, 04:31
Ahh. Thanks. Only read through the book once so far, my Vampire-Fu is still weak. :)

Khamoz
15-02-2008, 06:34
You can't combine walach's with heavy armor, it just means you can improve it with a shield and a mount - up to 1+. Dark Elves have armours like this, so do skaven and a lot of other armies as well. Needless to say that -1 as on a vampire would be ott although an overkill in most cases.

And what was the idea behind "combining" anyway? Every magical armor can be combined with steed, barding and a shield? No they can't. There are armours explictly stating you can't mount / use a shield when you wear them. Walach's bloody hauberk AFAIK is a suit of armour which can be improved with mundane armour. So you can combine it with a shield or a mount. So what's the big deal? It's not something every magical armor gets - Armour of darkness or the flayed hauberk for example.

And guys, especially Jack, don't start flaming people so easily - Starting to rage about every little offensive comment with a pointless double-triple-post keeps people from posting in the thread. And it also makes you seem like an idiot.

Jack of Blades
15-02-2008, 07:57
Thanks for bringing something we've discussed for the last ~3 pages back up again.

Rage? you're calling this flaming? :D...

Anyway, please post your setups instead of kicking the dead horse. Subject-o-mancing and baiting won't make you look better than myself.

What do people think of the combo that's currently my setup?

Cromenon
18-02-2008, 17:16
Ok, let's bring back to (un)life this thread:

Vamp Lord:

Lvl 3.

MotDA.
Forbidden Lore.

SkullStaff
Helm of Commandment.

He would be in a 10 Skeleton bunker.


Now the heroes...
Vamp 1
Walking Death
Avatar of Death -> HW + Shield.

BSB with Warbanner

In a 7x3 GW GG unit w/Banner of Barrows


Vamp 2
Dark Acolyte.
Lord of the Dead (+1 when raising skeletons)

Book of Arkhan


Vamp 3
Hunter in the Dark
Supernatural Terror

Talisman of Lycni
Wristbands of Black Gold.



What do you think?

I know vamp 3 is a risky choice, but it can be fun :p

UltimateNagash
18-02-2008, 19:22
There's a thread for this now :rolleyes:
:p

I personally like the Royal Banner of Strigos on my BSB - with Grave Guard and the Banner of the Barrows. Don't really need to worry about rolling those dice ;)

Cromenon
18-02-2008, 20:17
Quite right, but having to pursue/any other drawback due to hatred can be aggravating... Don't think so?

UltimateNagash
19-02-2008, 22:17
True, but the re-rolls are worth it ;)

Mythic
19-02-2008, 23:48
I've done quite a few different builds lately...so many different builds that I'd like to use! One thing that I've found hard is that you can't protect all your vamps very well (lack of normal 4+ or 5+ ward save is annoying)...I wish I could give Flayed Hauberk to everyone! :)

Well, anyway, here are few of the builds, they are kinda "I-can-do-some-casting-and-fighting-at-the-same-time!" vampires. Oh and yes, I know I can't use them all at the same time because some of them have the same items.

Vampire Lord - 435?
Lvl 3
Dark Acolyte, Infinite Hatred, Walking Death, Lord of the Dead,
Flayed Hauberk, Book of Arkhan, Talisman of the Lycni, Sword of Might

Thrall - 210?
BSB (if someone else doesn't have it already...)
Dark Acolyte, Lord of the Dead
Flayed Hauberk, Sword of Might/Battle

Thrall - 220?
BSB (if someone else doesn't have it already...)
Dark Acolyte, Lord of the Dead
Nightshroud, Black Periapt, Sword of Might/Battle

Thrall - 210-225?
BSB (if someone else doesn't have it already...)
Dread Knight, Walking Death/Infinite Hatred
Book of Arkhan/Hand of Dust/Rod of Flaming Death/2x Dispel Scrolls (Choises! ;))


A "bonus" Vampire Lord I'm going to try too (and alot of other people too it seems):

Vampire Lord - 445?
Lvl 3
Master of the Dark Arts, Dark Acolyte, Lord of the Dead
Skullstaff, Helm of Commandment

I've seen this guy posted (or very similiar) and he seems like a "nobrainer" for a casty lord.

Since I haven't actually seen the new book yet, feel free to correct if some (or all :D) those builds are illegal.

mightygnoblar
20-02-2008, 00:22
well one thing ive been thinking of is

vampire BSB
Warbanner
Walking Death
maybe avatar of death
for 175 (or 195 with avatar of death) this man generates 3 combat res, combine that with ranks and other bonuses and you could win combat before any dice are rolled

for example an average skele unit, four ranks (with the magic banner), standard and this guy will generate a static combat res of 8 (9 if they outnumber)-a total that most regular infantry will struggle to beat

HippoOfDOOM
20-02-2008, 03:23
Lord 575

Mannfried Von Carstien
staff of skulls +1 to cast and dispell
staff of sorcery +1 to dispell

Hero 150


Wight King
BSB
krell axe

Hero 190


Vampire
ghoulkin
avatar of death
great weapon
power stone
black periapt

Hero 145


Konrad von carstien

Both Manfredd and Konrad will have thier own ghoul unit that gets a free march move. while the wight king shores up a unit of grave guard and the ghoulkin vampire helps out my unit of skeletons with the magic and flaming weapons banner.

:) only 1060 in characters for 2250. I was at 1200 even.

UltimateNagash
20-02-2008, 13:47
For 3000 points, I was thinking about some kind of Flying Circus:

Vampire Lord 430
Additional Magic Level, Blood Drinker, The Flayed Hauberk, Wristbands of Black Gold, Flying Horror, Infinite Hatred, Beguile

Mannfred the Acolyte 400
Abyssal Terror, Staff of Damnation

Vampire 200
Hellsteed, The Balefire Spike, Nightshroud, Infinite Hatred, Beguile

Vampire 200
The Hand of Dust, Flying Horror, Avatar of Death (shield)

Vampire 190
Talisman of the Lycni, The Book of Arkhan, Ghoulkin, Avatar of Death (shield)

20 Crypt Ghouls 160

20 Crypt Ghouls 160

20 Crypt Ghouls 160

20 Crypt Ghouls 160

4 Bat Swarm bases 140

4 Bat Swarm bases 140

4 Bat Swarm bases 140

5 Fell Bats 100

5 Fell Bats 100

Varghulf 175

Varghulf 175
2990 points
109 models

Now, I'm not too sure on Mannfred, but the rest looks good...

Three Headed Monkey
20-02-2008, 13:58
Can you fit red fury anywhere? Essemtial if you want to cause as many wounds (thus CR) on the charge as possible.

Otherwise, it looks mighty nasty.

UltimateNagash
20-02-2008, 14:09
Well, I could drop Mannfred for two normal Vamps with Flying Horror?

Jack of Blades
20-02-2008, 14:15
Flying Horror... I thought it took up half of a Count's point allowance? :S

UltimateNagash
20-02-2008, 14:22
Nope. It's cheaper. Red Fury does though... Could put them on Hellsteeds with Red Fury and some hitty sword?

praesto
21-02-2008, 12:27
Vampire lord - lvl 3 mage

Dread knight
Red fury
Possible the +1CR bloodline if it costs 25 or less
Dreadlance
Accursed armor
Zombie dragon!

He will only have a 4+ save and T6, not exactly uberhard to kill. However, he can seriously tear anything apart. 4 str 7 attacks, all 4 will autohit, 2+ to wound. Probably 4 wounds in first wave of attacks, 3 wounds in next wave with red fury. That's 7 wounds! Then there's the zombie dragon which will probably do 2 wounds or so. Depends on what you are fighting of course.

If you can manage to van hels him into combat/into safety, he will easily earn you all the points he costs, and more!

LKHERO
22-02-2008, 02:44
VL
Dread Knight
Red Fury
Supernatural Horror/Infinite Hatred
Blood Drinker

Put him in a squad of 5 Blood Knights, Full Command with Flag of Blood Keep and you're good to go.

That squad will never die.

Lord will have 4 attacks at S7 on the charge, all will probably wound so +4 more attacks at S7, 8 wounds total = bring back all your Blood Knights in case you lost any + heal yourself. Oh, and you cause Terror. Don't need Terror? Take Infinite Hatred instead.

BEASTLY.

Mythic
22-02-2008, 08:53
VL
Dread Knight
Red Fury
Supernatural Horror/Infinite Hatred
Blood Drinker


Lord will have 4 attacks at S7 on the charge

Nope, you have a magic weapon, you have to use it...only bretonnians can use lance on the charge and then switch to magic weapon.

Three Headed Monkey
22-02-2008, 14:02
Even if you could (like in sixth ed) the effects of the lance would not not stack with the blooddrinker.

But yeah, you have to always use the blood drinker any way, so moot point. For killy power the dread lance will be better, but that wont regrow your unit. I think the Blood Knights are Hard enough, so a lance on the character with them may not be all that necassary.

heinrichvoncarstein
25-02-2008, 15:26
@hippoofdoom:
taking mannfred the count together with konrad is very, very incorrect when it comes to fluff (unless... *cough* powergamer *cough*) konrad was very, very dead when mannfred became count.

I got a new one (since i got the army book now (common magic items only 15 pts SWEET), bought the spearhead)
Sword of Battle
LVL 3
Dark Acolyte
Beguile
Infinite Hatred
Lord of the Dead
Black periapt
And either gem of blood and walach's bloody armour or the cloak of lost souls (crown of the damned) and cadaverous cuirass
(might get blood drinker since he's joining my grave guard (needs playtesting)

eleveninches
26-02-2008, 11:25
lv3 Lord (hellsteed, +2PD, summon ghouls, Lord of the dead, SoStriking, avatar of death, black periapt, 4+ ward, powerstone)

Vamp (hellsteed, avatar of death, walking death, hand of dust)

Vamp BSB (ghoulkin, summon ghouls, regen banner)

heinrichvoncarstein
26-02-2008, 14:22
If you are gonna have your lord be an uber casting guy with fly(hellsteed) i wold get the wristbands of black gold instead of crown of the damned.
And that second vamp of yours is gonna be a real costy one. I wouldn't take him/her in less than 3000 pts

UltimateNagash
26-02-2008, 14:28
Yeah, I prefer Wristbands on the Hellsteed...

heinrichvoncarstein
26-02-2008, 15:09
Yeah, and another downside of the crown is that you get stupid.

UltimateNagash
26-02-2008, 15:13
Yeah - personally, I like the idea of Dark Acolyte, Forbidden Lore, Lord of the Dead and some other raising thing, Helm of Commandment, Wristbands of Black Gold and some bound spell on a Hellsteed.
What do you think?

heinrichvoncarstein
26-02-2008, 17:31
Oooh. i got a perfect combo. you ultimatenagash's one dark acolyte, forbidden lore (and so on) and you get the staff of damnation. How great wouldn't it be to have like a unit of blood knights or varghulf in combat with something on one side of the count and a unit of some other elite unit on the other side of him. Cast the bound spell and you get to knock a rank off of the enemy

Taky
27-02-2008, 10:14
my character setup will be like

Lord: Master of the Black Art,Forbidden Lore,Lord of Death
Skull Staff,Helm of Command

Bsb Vampire: Dark Acolite,Avatar of Death
Book of Arkhan,Enchanted Shield

Vampire: Dark Acolite,Lord of Death
Scepter of Noirot,Flayed Houberk

Necromancer:Black periapt,Dispell scroll (maybe power stone),invocation and Vanhel


what you guys think about Hellsteed can model on it join units??

heinrichvoncarstein
27-02-2008, 12:55
You've got no protection for your 450pts character and in addition he's your general!!!

It specificly states in the fantasy rule book hat flyers cannot join units. So, no, the helsteed and character on it can not in a unit
P.S:i don't mean to be mean or anything but it's called lord of the dead not lord of death.

Taky
27-02-2008, 13:10
Thanks for advise but that setup which i want try that dont mean i will dont change it after few games.

Windings of a snake
27-02-2008, 19:01
Please comment on the following:

Vampire Lord

added level to 3

dark acolyth
Master of the dark art
Lord of the dead

Magic items

Sword of might
Crown of the damned
2+ Armour save
cursed book

Necro with 2 scrolls

Wight King mounted on barded steed with Killing blow at 5+ and the juwel

VAmpire
helm of command, dark acolyth and master of the dead

2x 20 Wights with full command One unit has a warbanner

2x 15 Skellies with full Command

20 Zombies

3 Vampire Bats

5 Black knights

that is 2000 points.

Thnaks for your ideas.

2500 Points

1 Black coach

1 Varghulf or Banshee with 2 friends

1 Corps cart with 1 ability

the other points would be used for some more magic banners

heinrichvoncarstein
27-02-2008, 19:41
I would give the lord sword of battle instead of sword of might. He's str 5 already he doesn't really need str 6

Three Headed Monkey
28-02-2008, 01:08
Hmm, that depends. S6 can be very helpful. Light armour, HW and Sh infantry dont get a save, and don underestimate the amount of T4 troops out there. S6 makes a lot of difference. Yes, there are some armies where it will seem wasted. Against elves you will be wounding on 2s anyway, but at least you remove one more point of armour save. Sword of battle is a good choice too, but it depends on what you want to be killing. S6 gives him a greater range of kickass.

I do like the vampire Lord. A bit of both worlds. A few questions though. Are you taking great weapons or hand weapons and shields on the grave guard? Why no command on the Black Knights? Do you just see them as a flanking unit? If so even the banner of the barrows can help a lot. If not on them, at least give it to a unit grave guard. Even if you are not aiming for them to be incredibly killy.

Windings of a snake
28-02-2008, 06:03
In a game of 2K I think it is inevitable to keep a keen eye on the points you spent. I did not have anything left after the basic settings so the black knights would be a flanking unit. The have the most splendid movement rules to play that part and giving them no additional stuff will make them a horror to enemy flanks and they will keep the most scouts at bay because of the best movement rule you can get. Just put them in your opponents favourite scouting place. They will cost 120 Points for a unit of five. No strings attached.

The Wights have HW/S to generate the best possible armour save and survivors.

In a game of more than 2K the banner of burrows is a good idea(at 2K i can hardly afford), i had some points left for that. I intendet to use the helmet of command for that purpose.

I also consider the sword of might for your best choice at the same price. Every char posseses a armour save of nearly 2+. The lord is the only char that can really handle other heroes except for the wight king, so he does the job himself. Never forget Cavalry or steam tank,you will need sword of might then, i don t like those 20 to 24 points cav. saving on 4+ to 3+ because you have no extra power.

If possible without avatar of death i would have even given him a great weapon at all times, but painfully there is no option without the avatar.

Thank you for your comments.

eleveninches
28-02-2008, 10:11
If you are gonna have your lord be an uber casting guy with fly(hellsteed) i wold get the wristbands of black gold instead of crown of the damned.
And that second vamp of yours is gonna be a real costy one. I wouldn't take him/her in less than 3000 pts

Hes not going to fly armound. his steed is just for the better save, and cos i was told that it causes terror

UltimateNagash
28-02-2008, 14:12
Hellsteed is just a Flying Nightmare. Only Steeds that cause Terror are the Abyssal Terror and the Zombie Dragon...

heinrichvoncarstein
28-02-2008, 19:20
Don't believe everything you read(when it's on the internet) or you're told.

UltimateNagash
28-02-2008, 19:22
No, true. But I have the book...
Hellsteed with Supernatural Horror, Aura of Dark Majesty and Wristbands of Black Gold sounds quite fun :D

Jack of Blades
28-02-2008, 19:40
Hmm...

Power Stone
Skabscratch
Forbidden Lore; Lore of Death

D&D! and then charge with Terror. No one likes testing for Terror at -3 LD :D

There's such a load of different things you can do with the new VC. Really nice.

heinrichvoncarstein
29-02-2008, 11:33
Don't believe everything you read(when it's on the internet) or you're told.


No, true. But I have the book...
Hellsteed with Supernatural Horror, Aura of Dark Majesty and Wristbands of Black Gold sounds quite fun :D

I wasn't saying that to you Nagash i was saying it to eleveninches, I have the book too you know!?!?!?!!!:p;)

UltimateNagash
29-02-2008, 12:11
Oh, right, sorry, was confused... :D

Mayax61
29-02-2008, 15:11
I obviously change the setup of my Vampire's to match the army i'm fighting and I normally play 3000 pt games. That being said, my next opponent will be the Dwarfs. Here is my setups....

Vampire Lord mounted on Hellsteed: Red Fury, Avatar of Death, Dark Acolyte, Dreadlance, Crown of the Damned.
note: he will take out artillery, thunderers and the Anvil of Doom.

Vampire Lord solo on foot: Master of Black Arts, Dark Acolyte, Avatar of Death, Helm of Commandment, Flayed Hauberk , Wristbands of Black Gold, Sword of Might
note: He will be my primary caster and i will keep him solo as long as i can so that he can use the Helm and continue to heal units throughout the battle.

Vampire: Dark Acolyte, Avatar of Death, Enchanted Shield, Book of Arkhan

Vampire: Dread Knight, Infinite Hatred, Wallach's Hauberk, Biting Blade

Vampire: Drakenhof Banner, Walking Death, Dread Knight

note: the 2 mounted vampires will be in my Blood knights regiment, while the other Vampire will be in a unit of skellies.

heinrichvoncarstein
29-02-2008, 16:04
I don't think having 2 vamps in a unit of blood knights is a good idea. The enemy baits you with his gyrocopter, you get destroyed, about 800-1000 free victory pts for your opponent

Mayax61
29-02-2008, 17:09
I don't think having 2 vamps in a unit of blood knights is a good idea. The enemy baits you with his gyrocopter, you get destroyed, about 800-1000 free victory pts for your opponent

I've never seen him use a Gyrocopter and I have a pretty good idea what his army will look like. Plus I'll likely run wolves in front of the knights to screen them and I will be using the Vamp Lord on a hellsteed to take care of things like gyrocopters, anvil, war machines etc.

Gaftra
29-02-2008, 17:42
one thing i was curious about was using a "ballistic missle" vamp in your army wiiiith

Avatar of Death (GW)
Red fury
Infinite hatred
Talisman of Lynchi (MV 9)
whatever else you give him at this point is gravy but what you have is a guy running around with st7 and mv 9

in a realisitic list id use:

VAMPIRE LORD: Skull staff, wristband of black gold, lvl 3 magic, MASTER OF THE BLACK ARTS, LORD OF THE DEAD, DARK ACOLYTE

thrall: SCEPTRE DE NOIROT, FLAYED HAUBREK, MASTER OF THE BLACK ARTS

thrall: NIGHTSHROUD, DISPEL SCROLL, DREAD KNIGHT, WALKING DEATH

wight king: sword of kings, enchanted shield

this works well in a list that has a little of everything, the idead is that no one unit or char is the lynch pin of the army and if my opponent is obsessed with removing my general then the rest of the army will have time to get on top of him.

CarlostheCraven
01-03-2008, 12:11
Hi

I believe the correct answer to this question is Vlad.

I have been poring over the book, looking at potential combos and Vlad just keeps coming out on top. If you are spending over 350 points on your lord, why not go for the full monty and use Vlad?

This new book is soooo dependant on the Vampire, that you must invest in keeping him alive. Vlad fulfills the role of being unkillable better than anyone short of Valten.

However, the other combo I like is (and it has probably been mentioned earlier)
Lord, lvl3
DreadLance
Wristbands of black gold/Crown of the damned, depending on my mood and willingness to deal with stupidity.
Red Fury
Beguile
Walking Death
Zombie Dragon

That should get you whereever you need to be and then kill it. The potential for eigth auto-hits, potentially re-rolling to wound, and a big beasty to back you up could be quite effective at killing just about anything.

Cheers,
Carlos the Craven

Three Headed Monkey
01-03-2008, 12:38
Sounds powerful, just avoid charging infantry blocks in the front as a simple challenge with a one wound unit champion will mean you can only win by one, if he doesnt have a warbanner, or any other scenanigans.

Besides, having a dragon behind your opponent's lines is just great as he has to figure out what he is going to turn aroung, etc. Either way, something is going to get a rear charge.

UltimateNagash
01-03-2008, 17:59
I don't go for Vlad because I want a Level 4 Wizard, and therefore am more tempted by Mannfred.
What I don't like is Mannfred's lack of armour - this being the case I would save Mannfred until I could get two Lords, let my other be the General and have a good armour and Ward save...

Windings of a snake
02-03-2008, 09:40
As special chars are a nuisance in my eyes there is no way I would ever use one of them in a whatsoever game.

With VC you can create a much better lord yourself. Who needs that extra stuff for the extra points.

Come on. What are you expecting...? Putting them in a way they have been put in the new VC book just is not capable of saying they are special anymore. I liked them for purposes of campaigning. But it denounces the fluff value they once possesed. Imagine Vald would be used by an absolute idiot an is killed over and over again. Then his fluffwise supernatural stuff is like useless. Loosing Vlad in usual games is going to be like loosing an empire general. Is that what they wanted us to think?

heinrichvoncarstein
02-03-2008, 14:28
Mannfred makes up his lack of armour by having 5!!! wounds, and on his horse he has a 3+ save which is pretty good. Besides, it's not like he's gonna be in combat that much, he's supposed to be 6" away from the combat bolstering your units.

Spirit
02-03-2008, 23:05
Sounds powerful, just avoid charging infantry blocks in the front as a simple challenge with a one wound unit champion will mean you can only win by one, if he doesnt have a warbanner, or any other scenanigans.



Erm, in my view this is a GOOD thing, ok, they can only win by 1, but this means they wont run away in YOUR turn, you still have the lances auto hit ability at S5 next round, and if they are rank and file, they are normally t3, so your still 2s to wound, with a -2 save, and maybe 6 or 7 wounds rather than 8, but it means your lord is in combat in THEIR turn, so he cant be shot! then they run away in their turn (no more champion to challenge) and you get another charge, rinse, repeat.

Or, being a level 3 mage himself, you can easily raise a unit of zombies and flank charge them with your nearby necromancer (3 casts of van hells with a periapt and another hero totting the good book.)

Then they have no flanks, and you get +1 to the combat, they need to kill 4 zombies to make that up, which they probably wont, even on 3s then 3s.

What about combining charges with a varghalf? then you'l slaughter the combat front on, and its got movement 8, so it can easily charge turn 2 asell.

Three Headed Monkey
03-03-2008, 02:41
Erm, in my view this is a GOOD thing, ok, they can only win by 1, but this means they wont run away in YOUR turn, you still have the lances auto hit ability at S5 next round, and if they are rank and file, they are normally t3, so your still 2s to wound, with a -2 save, and maybe 6 or 7 wounds rather than 8, but it means your lord is in combat in THEIR turn, so he cant be shot! then they run away in their turn (no more champion to challenge) and you get another charge, rinse, repeat.

Or, being a level 3 mage himself, you can easily raise a unit of zombies and flank charge them with your nearby necromancer (3 casts of van hells with a periapt and another hero totting the good book.)

Then they have no flanks, and you get +1 to the combat, they need to kill 4 zombies to make that up, which they probably wont, even on 3s then 3s.

What about combining charges with a varghalf? then you'l slaughter the combat front on, and its got movement 8, so it can easily charge turn 2 asell.

Fair enough. Although keep in mind that you also risk a counter charge. However there are ways around that; correctly possitioned dire wolf units or just raised zombie units etc. Its harder to get counter charged if you are 3D6" behind your enemies lines. I do agree about wanting to avoid shooting though. I hadnt thought of that. Of course it depends who you are playing against and what shooting they actually have.

heinrichvoncarstein
03-03-2008, 09:06
Hm....
I'm thinking that i might add konrad to my army, he's awesome!! But then i have to ditch a wizard.
Or maybe i should get mannfred the acolyte instead and get another fighting hero instead of a vamp.
Hm.......
Or maybe both.... hmmmm......

Spirit
03-03-2008, 10:15
"Although keep in mind that you also risk a counter charge. "

Ok yes, but the advantage is that your the one charging first, you can charge any unit on the table turn 2, so charge the one that isnt in the charge ark of something else, the unit will run away in the second turn of combat, unless he is really lucky. Very fortunately other armies cant usually magic themselves into combat!

Another way to get round the champion, if you did want them to run, might \be to take the -1 Ld ability, if you can fit it in.

Weazle
03-03-2008, 10:55
Lord

Dread knight
Red fury
Beguile
Dread lance
Accursed armour

Rather expensive at 390 points, but t6, 1+ save, s7 on the charge, autohit, will most probably get to reroll to wound, and bonus attacks for every wound caused is really, really nasty :skull:

He's not a very good caster, but if you run him with a unit of Blood Knights he should still be able to raise a couple of them each turn if he needs to :D

Three Headed Monkey
03-03-2008, 11:18
"Although keep in mind that you also risk a counter charge. "

Ok yes, but the advantage is that your the one charging first, you can charge any unit on the table turn 2, so charge the one that isnt in the charge ark of something else, the unit will run away in the second turn of combat, unless he is really lucky. Very fortunately other armies cant usually magic themselves into combat!


I agree. All I said was that the risk was there, but you could mitigate it. You can even charge into the arc of another unit and use small units of dire wolves, as they are fast and so can keep up with the Vampire, to get in the way of any counter charging units, angled at such away that they do not overrun into the vampire. Simple. I just pointed out that the risk was there, and needed addressing. Which it seems we both agree with :).

Spirit
03-03-2008, 15:12
Hmm, im liking the idea of the accursed armour and the dreadlance, ws4 but auto hit is pretty nasty for t6..

heinrichvoncarstein
04-03-2008, 14:08
That's a good combo.... But watch out for killing blow, single bolt thrower shots and cannon balls. t 6 isn't much of a problem against those things and you don't get a save either. I would swap the accursed armour for crown of the damned but that's just me.