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eldereth
24-01-2008, 14:09
I was wondering what the rules were for revealing your unit equipment at the start of the game. Do you have to say wether your clanrats have spears or something? And if so, would you also have to say your character has heavy armour and a great weapon, and do you have to say he has magic armour (not which item, but just that it's magic) and / or a magic weapon.

Not sure this is in the BRB (couldn't find it) so is this a houserule? And if so, what do you usually do?

Atrahasis
24-01-2008, 14:12
Mundane equipment should be immediately obvious on the models.

Magical equipment is revealed the first time it is used.

logan054
24-01-2008, 14:12
I think you only need to reveal stuff if its different to what is on the model, magic items however are not revealed (but i know one person who liked to try and get these out of you, really annoying actually).

Urgat
24-01-2008, 14:15
Yes, you have to make clear what equipement your regiments have. There's the WYSIWYG rule somewhere in the BRB actually I believe, but I don't have it handy so I'll let someone else look for it. The only exception is magic items and special things like fanatics, you don't have to tell about these. But you MUST make clear that your clanrats have spears and so on.
For the second part of your question, that's a good point, I don't know. I suppose you just don't say what characters have, at all.

Goruax
24-01-2008, 15:32
You do not have to reveal your character's items until they're used.
If someone asks, it's up to you to tell them if you want to - you don't have an obligation unless they use an item, such as the VC Skull Staff (I think, or something like that.)

As for the regiments; as the others said, it should be WYSIWYG, unless it's something that would be really hard to model, but nothing springs to mind.

At the end of the day, you should have some form of army list with each thing stated, so there're no arguments.
If your opponent doesn't have one, make 'em draw one up.

Had a bad case when I just started 40K and my opponent had 'I and S 5' Assault Marines...this was before they could take Furious Assault :mad:

Sherlocko
24-01-2008, 17:42
As for the regiments; as the others said, it should be WYSIWYG, unless it's something that would be really hard to model, but nothing springs to mind.


Mark and spawnings can sometimes be hard to recognize at first glance. :)

logan054
24-01-2008, 17:45
So spawnings should be mentioned before the game starts? interesting (last lizardmen player i played didnt mention this), never been a issue with my khorne army however with the massive khorne symbols on the banners :)

twisted_angel
24-01-2008, 18:33
Like others have said before its generally WYSIWYG, however I think if you should use soething different (eg skele models with spears but you dont take spears in your list)

Deffinatly write up an army list so there are no complecations as to what each player has but I dont think you should announce what your chars have etc (real wars dont start with leaders sitting down discussing what they are going to take in their armies :P)

However because im kind (or stupid) I do tell my opponent if any of my characters are etheral (as techniquely you would see if someone is a ghost!?!)

TheDarkDaff
24-01-2008, 23:08
So spawnings should be mentioned before the game starts? interesting (last lizardmen player i played didnt mention this), never been a issue with my khorne army however with the massive khorne symbols on the banners :)

Spawnings have specific colours they are supposed to be. i can't find any rule as such that says you have to paint them right but the same can be said of Chaos Marks.

Units must reach the 50% correct equipment requirement in the BRB. That means at least half the unit must have the exact equipment load out that the unit is supposed to have but allows you some room for variety. I personally model on all mundane equipment and even most magic items on my Characters, you can tell my Druchii Noble has Heavy Armour, Sea Dragon's Cloak, and a Great Weapon or Halberd but what you don't know is if that Great Weapon is the Draich of Dark Power or if the Halberd is the Crimson Death or if the Heavy Armour is if fact the Blood Armour.

stevekl
25-01-2008, 01:53
In friendly games, do people generally mind if you, say, take spears while your models are armed with hand weapons?

Jonke
25-01-2008, 02:38
Depends on your friends :) In my club we accept and many make extensive use of proxys to try out new armies.

TheDarkDaff
25-01-2008, 02:51
Jonke's response is about right. I do however draw the line at about 6 months. If you have tried the unit for that long then buy it or convert it if you want to keep using it. A one off though is generally fine but always ask first. It is just polite to ask.

Kerill
25-01-2008, 02:52
Some spawnings (e.g. quetzl) don't have a specific colour. I think spawnings and marks need to be called at the start. I also find it strange that some of the items don't get called- the iron boar and chariot of fire in particular.

T10
25-01-2008, 07:38
I find that Witch Elves have the most revealing equipment.

At the very least you should reveal the mundane unit upgrades from the army list entry. And in my opinion that includes spawnings and marks.

-T10

Braad
25-01-2008, 07:45
Some spawnings (e.g. quetzl) don't have a specific colour. I think spawnings and marks need to be called at the start. I also find it strange that some of the items don't get called- the iron boar and chariot of fire in particular.

Personally I would say that they should be revealed only as a mundane boar/chariot. The added effect comes later.
Why? Dunno... Sounds best solution.

Atrahasis
25-01-2008, 11:42
I find that Witch Elves have the most revealing equipment.But Daemonettes have the most equipment to reveal.

eldereth
25-01-2008, 12:25
Yeah, I supposed it was the WYSIWYG rule, but playing skaven, I sometimes take spears on my clanrats, and sometimes just HW's. However, I'm not prepared to buy and paint another 90 or more clannies just so I can take them with or without spears. As it is, most of them have spears because they'd be really hard to distinguish from the slaves otherwise. I usually take clanrats without spears though, so would I have to remodel them all? Or would something like a banner with a spear for units with spears and a banner with a sword for units without spears be enough?

This won't be a problem in friendly games, but I was thinking of participating in some tournaments in the future, but I'd have to get my army painted first, and at this rate (40-50 models per year) it's going to take ages if I have to remodel/paint 90 models.

Urgat
25-01-2008, 13:02
SImple way is to have half your unit equiped with spears, the other half equiped with HW. Now depending on which you wanna use, you put the correctly equiped minis in the front ranks. Saves money (or makes your army bigger while allowing you to use all the minis), and allows for more flexibility.

Griefbringer
25-01-2008, 14:10
See also page 54 of the rulebook ("Weapons and Units") for a confirmation that it is OK to have a minority (ie. below 50%) of the models armed in non-WYSIWYG ways, as long as it is not misleading. Command models are also more or less excempt from the WYSIWYG when it comes to equipment (as long as it is clear that they are standards/musicians/champions).

Then there are some strange units that have rules making them excempt of the WYSIWYG rule (such as Empire militia, black orcs and wood elf wardancers) so you can more or less arm those models with turnips and stuffed rabbits if you want.

Lexy
25-01-2008, 14:25
Sometimes it even doesn't matter what weapons you have.
For example the goblar fighters just have handweapons, so even if they have shields or flails/morningstars as a model, they don't use them as such.

Tarax
25-01-2008, 16:24
See also page 54 of the rulebook ("Weapons and Units") for a confirmation that it is OK to have a minority (ie. below 50%) of the models armed in non-WYSIWYG ways, as long as it is not misleading. Command models are also more or less excempt from the WYSIWYG when it comes to equipment (as long as it is clear that they are standards/musicians/champions).

Then there are some strange units that have rules making them excempt of the WYSIWYG rule (such as Empire militia, black orcs and wood elf wardancers) so you can more or less arm those models with turnips and stuffed rabbits if you want.

This is correct.
I would like to add that most people will tell you what each unit is (Clanrats or Slaves, Peasant Spearmen or Halberdiers, etc) so why not the equipment.
Although I draw the line at people asking me if my Bretonnian Knights have a 2+ armour save. They should know most commonly used units.

Goruax
25-01-2008, 16:45
Although I draw the line at people asking me if my Bretonnian Knights have a 2+ armour save. They should know most commonly used units.

That's somewhat unfair.
Fairly often, there'll be someone who hasn't faced a particular army, 'specially if they're new to the hobby, or their regular opponents don't feature that army.