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Kandarin
25-01-2008, 14:29
Every time the subject of the Old Ones comes up, there's some conflict between several alternating points of view as to the status of the Old Ones. There is evidence, most of it WHFB-related, that the Old Slaan were the Old Ones, but that doesn't seem to resolve the opinions held by their client races. For example, some fluff says that the Old Ones built the Webway, while the Eldar believe that they built it themselves. Similarly, the Ork/Krork have a legend of 'brain boyz' that are synonymous, but not quite, with the Old Ones.

I suggest an alternative: that to describe a being as an Old One is not a species description, but one of that being's spiritual and intellectual state. A being did not become an Old One by being born to a specific race, but by mastering the power of the Warp within itself, bending the nascent power of the Immaterium to its will without being bent in return.

Thus, it is perhaps true that the first Old Ones were of the Slaan, but other races followed suit, and it would appear that all the races created by the Old Ones were designed with the potential to follow them into true enlightenment. In this way, the Brain Boyz could have been Old Ones in their own right. The 'god'(s) of the Hrud could have been as well, as could Eldanesh and Ulthanesh, and doubtless other, earlier Eldar. This is part of the tragedy of the early Eldar's reliance on their gods, for the full spiritual enlightenment of the Old Ones could not coexist with faith in Warp gods.

Rockerfella
25-01-2008, 15:37
Well, the Eldar know that they didn't build the Webway, per se, they simply developed it further and improved it to perfection, beyond the means of its earlier masters.

I think. :)

clanfield
25-01-2008, 21:14
in whfb fluff the slan were servents of not actualy old ones there role is to interpret the will of the old ones and direct the other casts
very similar set up to the old orks emipre in wh 40k

Iracundus
25-01-2008, 21:48
Please use punctuation.

In WHFB, the Slann believe themselves the servants of the Old Ones. That is a difference from actually being so. There is that line in the Necron Codex saying to represent degenerate Old Ones, NOT servants of the Old Ones, with a WHFB Lizardmen army. This means the WHFB Slann are degenerate Old Ones, who have forgotten (or never knew) that their gods were their ancestors.

Baltar
25-01-2008, 21:49
in whfb fluff the slan were servents of not actualy old ones there role is to interpret the will of the old ones and direct the other casts

I believe some WHFB fluff describes the Old Ones as toad men from the stars, and also some fluff describes the Slaan as degenerate Old Ones who have basically forgotten their true heritage. The way the First Generation Slaan are described fits the role of super Godlike beings pretty damn well.

Personally I feel like the Old Ones in 40k are identical to the Old Ones in WHFB, whether they are technically part of the same universe or not. I am not a big fan of Old Ones being of different races.

Stahlgeist
25-01-2008, 22:00
Please use punctuation.

In WHFB, the Slann believe themselves the servants of the Old Ones. That is a difference from actually being so. There is that line in the Necron Codex saying to represent degenerate Old Ones, NOT servants of the Old Ones, with a WHFB Lizardmen army. This means the WHFB Slann are degenerate Old Ones, who have forgotten (or never knew) that their gods were their ancestors.

Wow, kind of like Enoch & the Sleestaks from "Land of the Lost"?

See, Enoch thinks he's travelled in time back to the origins of his enlightened race, and thinks the Sleestaks are his ancestors. Then he finds the (his) abandoned city, and realizes the Sleestaks are his races' degenerate progeny!

Kage2020
25-01-2008, 22:35
I suggest an alternative: that to describe a being as an Old One is not a species description, but one of that being's spiritual and intellectual state. A being did not become an Old One by being born to a specific race, but by mastering the power of the Warp within itself, bending the nascent power of the Immaterium to its will without being bent in return.
This is actually a common approach and, perhaps, the one advocated by Gav Thorpe. Ultimately the point is the ascension, as you say.

In general, though, this counts as "'fluff' transparent." That is, it doesn't really matter what you believe in, but it fits regadless...

Kage