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Vesica
25-01-2008, 20:16
I have seen most people saying they believe that the 'Dragon' c'tan is on mars and could be the machine god and such, but after reading a bit of the necron codex i have questions.

1.) Have eldar ever populated of solar system?

2.) It says 'the vaul-moon shall bring forth the dragon' so why do people believe that this is mars? surely it would be towards where the Eldar home system was and not somehow mars.

Looking forward to peoples views and answers.

LordXaras
25-01-2008, 20:22
Read the story about Abaddon and Zaraphiston, as well as the account of Tech-Adept Uvochi - both in the Necron Codex.

Inquisitor S.
25-01-2008, 20:33
I have seen most people saying they believe that the 'Dragon' c'tan is on mars

Funny, most people I know would burn you at the stake for such a statement ^^

Norminator
25-01-2008, 20:37
I have seen most people saying they believe that the 'Dragon' c'tan is on mars and could be the machine god and such, but after reading a bit of the necron codex i have questions.

1.) Have eldar ever populated of solar system?


If I understand it correctly, the Emperor's webway project used an abandoned webway gate left by the Eldar on Terra. If that's right, then there were eldar in the solar system.

different13
25-01-2008, 21:04
Also, when it says Vaul-Moon it's meant more as a descriptive - Vaul is a smith, and Mars is the main 'smithy' of mankind..

Then of course there's all the obvious evidence, such as Mars being listed on that map in the back of the Eldar codex, a few pieces of fluff, etc...

Commander Dante
25-01-2008, 22:41
Also According to The Torturer's Tale the Dark Eldar have been raiding Terra before Humans were spacebourne.

azimaith
25-01-2008, 22:54
Its the "vaul moon" reference in combination with abbaddons vision of a giant sarcophagus in the noctis labrynth on mars. Vaul referring to the eldar smith god.

Then theres weird events around mars such as the noctis labyrinth supposedly being entered by an adept despite it being declared perdita as theres supposedly some sort of toxic gas that destroys metal and flesh (Which would make perdita rather pointless).

There was the suicidal 3 shroud class necron cruisers who got through mars defenses, one of which managed to touch the red soil for no apparent reason.

And of course theres the denied requiest to have the labrynth filled with ferrocrete.

Vesica
25-01-2008, 23:29
i always thought that the Emperor hacked into the webway via a human made enterance, i still find it hard to believe that mars is in anyway related to Eldar in a big way.

DantesInferno
25-01-2008, 23:56
Its the "vaul moon" reference in combination with abbaddons vision of a giant sarcophagus in the noctis labrynth on mars. Vaul referring to the eldar smith god.

Then theres weird events around mars such as the noctis labyrinth supposedly being entered by an adept despite it being declared perdita as theres supposedly some sort of toxic gas that destroys metal and flesh (Which would make perdita rather pointless).

There was the suicidal 3 shroud class necron cruisers who got through mars defenses, one of which managed to touch the red soil for no apparent reason.

And of course theres the denied requiest to have the labrynth filled with ferrocrete.

Not only these examples, but suggestions like:

...the most ancient and zealously guarded secrets of [the Adeptus Mechanicus] tell of a time before the coming of the Emperor when a far older power was paid homage on Mars. They make veiled reference to unspeakable knowledge won in the Golden Age of Technology, and how it brought about Mankind's eventual downfall in the Age of Strife. That such abject heresy can exist at the very heart of the Imperium is dreadful enough, but the implications if it should ever be proved true are unimaginable.


...the core of the Necron threat nestles like a cancer within the heart of the Imperium itself...

And so on.


i still find it hard to believe that mars is in anyway related to Eldar in a big way.

That's probably because it isn't. You can bet as soon as the Eldar saw the hints that ancient beings of terror existing in Eldar myth were sleeping in the Sol system, they got out as fast as they could...

Alessander
26-01-2008, 00:00
i always thought that the Emperor hacked into the webway via a human made enterance, i still find it hard to believe that mars is in anyway related to Eldar in a big way.

Partially correct. The emperor chose the site of the palace because of the ancient *sealed* webway portal, long before the crusade. Meaning he had plans for it all along. Yes, there was a man-made "link" to the eldar part, but that was to get around the sealed eldar gateway.

Commander Dante
26-01-2008, 00:22
what does have to do with this discussion?

Templar Ben
26-01-2008, 00:31
It is another Friday night SPAM attack.

starlight
26-01-2008, 00:40
Nothing to see here folks....;)

Templar Ben
26-01-2008, 00:44
Thanks for the speedy action as always.

Vesica
26-01-2008, 00:59
When it says about the necron threat been at the heart of the imperium i always imagined it to be something more todo with the Deciever somehow controling the pathertic and heretical high lords.

Or maybe the Emperor's golden throne is the Dragon 0.o

thearchiver
26-01-2008, 01:09
Seeing as the human colony fleets left from Mars "the vaul-moon shall bring forth the dragon" could just mean humans expanding enough to be viable ctan food source again.

noctis labrynth contains the mother STC, the one how thought mankind needed getting rid of and made the Iron men and led to the Dark Age of Technology

Which would give the nerocs the ability to terraform tombworlds for easy ctan feeding, or to make legions of lessor non living metal troops.

And why the admech worship it, but maybe they also know how damn dangerous it is so cant bring themselves to destroy it, and maybe why their always looking for STC info not because of the lost knowledge in them but because of the threat they pose.

Bookwrak
26-01-2008, 07:22
When it says about the necron threat been at the heart of the imperium i always imagined it to be something more todo with the Deciever somehow controling the pathertic and heretical high lords.

Or maybe the Emperor's golden throne is the Dragon 0.o

Not possible, given that the Throne was built after the Heresey.

Francis29
26-01-2008, 07:56
vauls moon could refer to the amulets of vaul. Abbadon got hold of one of them and tried to blow up Cadia. If this had happened then the eye of terror would have expanded(?) and this could be seen by the eldar as a dragon(they like myths).
Then again i could be wrong...

Brother Siccarius
26-01-2008, 08:46
The Talisman's of Vaul were created to destroy C'Tan, not raise them. The fact that the only real way for mortals to destroy the oldest Eldar foe (C'tan) now lies in the hands of the newest Eldar foe (Slaanesh) is an irony I doubt even Tzeentch could think up. Which is funny again when you realize the two entities are opposites in form and substance.

As to Necrons Terraforming planets... Why would they need to? C'Tan are timeless, ageless, and patient as hell, they can stand to wait a hundred millennium between meals. The C'tan don't care for grain or substance, they crave energy, and your body contains a tasty bite-sized amount.

Shortseer
26-01-2008, 08:55
What the op has to understand about the eldar refering to the vaul moon is this, they did not know of it because they were there...but rather because they foretold it, i hear they are some damn fancy fortune tellers :)

Yea, as pretty much everyone else has said, the evidence is in the necron dex, and at least the 3rd ed eldar dex, i haven't read the fluff part of my 4th ed eldar for awhile.

Also, off the main topic, but pertaining to this thread, someone mentioned that they thought the STC for the iron men wasin the Noctis Labyrinth. As far as i know, there is no evidence to that, in fact, SPOILER!!!!!! in the second Gaunts ghost novel, the ghosts find and destroy a corrupted STC for the Iron men on one of the Sabbat worlds.

MrBigMr
26-01-2008, 09:27
The Talisman's of Vaul were created to destroy C'Tan, not raise them. The fact that the only real way for mortals to destroy the oldest Eldar foe (C'tan) now lies in the hands of the newest Eldar foe (Slaanesh) is an irony I doubt even Tzeentch could think up. Which is funny again when you realize the two entities are opposites in form and substance.
I've always wondered if the Eldar have a sort of "gods hate me" gene. Not only is Slaanesh after them, but the Void-Dragon was quite keen on wiping the Eldar out.


As to Necrons Terraforming planets... Why would they need to? C'Tan are timeless, ageless, and patient as hell, they can stand to wait a hundred millennium between meals. The C'tan don't care for grain or substance, they crave energy, and your body contains a tasty bite-sized amount.
A human can go like 30 days without food, but would you? I remember it being told that the C'Tan final solution to the galaxy question, was to turn it into one big happy chicken farm where people were grown and used as livestock for the C'Tan. Maybe something like the Matrix. I don't know. But having planets that can support life is important in keeping such farms. And terra forming a planet always atracts attention. And new settlers. Which can be eaten.

I wrote a story for the Planetkill competition on a planet the Necrons were using like that. You have a lush green planet, filled with happy happy people (maybe introduce some chemical into the atmosphere). Then, when all is ready, strike from orbit and from beneath the ground, slay those that resist and march the rest of them to a huge tomb where their preciouss bodily fluids are drained, stored and beamed into orbit.

When the Imperials finally get there, all they'll find is a lush green planet void of all human life. So what do they do? Decide to settle it again. Sort of sow the seed for the next harvest.

LordXaras
26-01-2008, 14:23
Then theres weird events around mars such as the noctis labyrinth supposedly being entered by an adept despite it being declared perdita as theres supposedly some sort of toxic gas that destroys metal and flesh (Which would make perdita rather pointless).
If you're referring to the hearing of Adept Uvochi, I believe it is said that to go into the labyrinth means death for flesh and metal alike - nothing about any gas. In fact, I would rather think that the statement is a decree of prohibition. "We really don't want you to go in there. In fact, if you do, we will kill you dead, and destroy any and all things you brought with you."

zoodog
27-01-2008, 01:42
It seems like this has all been covered before, have you heard of the search function?

However, I could see this thread a a good place for making jokes comparing Stargate and Atlantis to 40K based on some of the answers.

Kandarin
27-01-2008, 02:29
A human can go like 30 days without food, but would you? I remember it being told that the C'Tan final solution to the galaxy question, was to turn it into one big happy chicken farm where people were grown and used as livestock for the C'Tan. Maybe something like the Matrix.

It's a tradeoff. The C'tan don't want to be strongly resisted, but at the same time they want a galaxy with a vast diversity of lifeforms experiencing a vast diversity of sensations and emotions. Total domination of the galaxy serves the former goal but not the latter. A more reasonable endgame for them might be to leave inhabited planets their autonomy but suppress any attempt at interstellar civilization or advanced technology.

Templar Ben
27-01-2008, 13:25
It's a tradeoff. The C'tan don't want to be strongly resisted, but at the same time they want a galaxy with a vast diversity of lifeforms experiencing a vast diversity of sensations and emotions.

Why would the C'Tan want life doing that which feeds the warp?

PondaNagura
27-01-2008, 16:36
they feed off of the life-energies/emotions of sentient beings. it's like narcotic-food to them, in comparison to the dry, flavorless energies of a star.
also not all emotional beings have a warp presence.

CaptainDaris
27-01-2008, 17:15
@ shortseer, that's in the first one, First and Only

Templar Ben
27-01-2008, 22:57
they feed off of the life-energies/emotions of sentient beings. it's like narcotic-food to them, in comparison to the dry, flavorless energies of a star.
also not all emotional beings have a warp presence.

So Necrons shouldn't fight Tau?

Chaplain of Chaos
27-01-2008, 23:08
I've always wondered if the Eldar have a sort of "gods hate me" gene. Not only is Slaanesh after them, but the Void-Dragon was quite keen on wiping the Eldar out.


Well.. in their own Mythic Cycles Khaine kills their greatest heros, and they still seem to idolize hm. In fact, beyond battling the C'tan Khaine did very little to help the Eldar.

Necrons would fight Tau, Tau are still living things. The C'tan don't feed on psyker talent and warp presence they feed on the material energy of living creatures. They could feed on goats and animals too, they just like feeding on sentient creatures more.

Johnnyfrej
27-01-2008, 23:48
A human can go like 30 days without food, but would you?
I would like to know where you came up with this info. I know a human can last only 3 days without water but I think without food depends on the person. Even a really fat guy could probably only go for about a week before his body would start to malfuction (food does more than just give you energy after all). I seriously doubt 30 days without food is survivable.

-Private Jon

DarkAzrael169
28-01-2008, 01:04
A person(Average) can go with out water for 3-7 or more days... A average person can also go without food for 1 and a half months... I that said person eats meat... He will need a LOT more water to survive... It depends on how healthy and durable your spirit(Mental capabilities) and your body are.

Magos Explorator
28-01-2008, 20:03
Not possible, given that the Throne was built after the Heresey.

Although that's what the old fluff says, new fluff (e.g. the Horus Heresy artbooks) says it was built beforehand as a sort of 'command chair' to keep the Terran Webway portal safe.

MrBigMr
28-01-2008, 20:49
I would like to know where you came up with this info. I know a human can last only 3 days without water but I think without food depends on the person. Even a really fat guy could probably only go for about a week before his body would start to malfuction (food does more than just give you energy after all). I seriously doubt 30 days without food is survivable.
Few places, such as army medic training. 30 days is a round figure, but a person can survive without food for a long time. In other words, you won't die of starvation very soon, but you'll be in a world of hurt when your body starts to eat itself, turning tissue back into nutrients.

Water is a whole other thing. Without it, a person can die in few days.