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MattKienbaum
29-01-2008, 14:03
The Perfect unit part 1a (Empire Core)

I hope this is in the right place and that it hasn’t been done.
What I hope to start hear is a series of threads that work on the thought of "prefect units” Not armies. But take a specific unit in a specific army and build to it's greatest potential, including heroes. I chose to start with the Empire in part because it is my first army and I felt the detachment rule made this a more interesting topic for us to debate.

Core Units (No Knights, they’ll come later)
Every empire has them. What are the best formations of these unites. I will start with my suggestion and I hope others will teach me new and better ideas.

23 Swordsmen 6X4 With FC (163)
Including A Warrior Priest with GW and armor of Meteoric Iron (119)
1 det of 5 handgunners (40)
1 det of 10 Halberdiers (50)
(372p)

Or maybe

23 Spearmen 6X4 with FC (135)
Including A Warrior Priest with GW and armor of Meteoric Iron (119)
1 det of 5 handgunners (40)
1 det of 10 Free Company (50)
(344p)

What are the suggestions on better units of Core? I have never use archers to much success but maybe some one will show me a unit design of merit. Please post your suggestions on other “Perfect core Units”

Dragon Prince of Caledor
29-01-2008, 20:19
My most loved unit is 15 white lions. I give them full command, the gem of courage and the lion standard. They will run from nothing, they hit hard, and they are resistant to shooting. (for high elves) This all included with the ability to move through the woods with no penalty. (perfect special unit)

FurryMiguell
29-01-2008, 20:54
Archers are lovely dets. of you have an advancing army that could need some extra raged support. They can move and shoot, so the archers can advance along with the rest of your army.

I dont have the Empire armybook at hand now, but if GS units can have dets., i would have a unit of 30 of those, and 10 archers det. for it.

The unit ever worked best in battle for me is my three units of 15 DE crossbow dudes. They have the number needed to put up a reasonable fight when the worn lines of my enemy reach them, and combined with my CC support, sorceress and vast amount of fast flanking units thay are near invincible.

Also, a unit of 25 Sormvermin and a warpfire thrower behind a unit of 40 slaves can do mad damage if you charge the slaves in first, and when they die, fry them with the firethrower, and kill off any survivors with the Stormvermin.

Cheers:D

Jack of Blades
29-01-2008, 21:04
85 Points/model, has the bound spell Bear's Anger that they can only cast on themselves with a power level of 3, M5, WS5, BSwhatever, S4, T4, I4, A3 & LD 8.
Frenzy, Skirmishers, 5+ Ward Save, 4+ Armour Save. The looks of gigantic, especially grotesque Ghouls.


5 Blood Knights - 380 Points
Standard Bearer; Flag of Blood Keep
Musician
Krauon the Whirlblazer


Vampire Count Krauon the Whirlblazer - ~415 Points
Krauon's Hand of Soul Consuming (Hand of Dust)
Crown of the Damned
Talisman of the Lycni
Forbidden Lore; Lore of Fire
Summon Ghouls
Red Fury
Lvl 3 Wizard

I think this unit is going to be pretty solid, and will definetily attract things to it.

As for the unit I'd wish I could have had in a VC army - Bone Giant. Easily.

Lucky24/7
30-01-2008, 10:42
for points effectivness o EMPIRE (read the titel:S) I would be going 30 swordsmen in a 6*5 formation with a detachment of 9 swordsmen in a 3*3 formation.

Dennys ranks and starts with a static combat res of 6 and you oppent will have no ranks... all for 234+25 = 259 points bargin :D

FurryMiguell
30-01-2008, 11:51
hmm, good setup. Really good:p. I might just try that in my next game;)

Cheers:D

scarletsquig
30-01-2008, 12:18
For empire, that spearmen unit you listed with the warrior priest is a lot better than the swordsmen unit with the priest. The hatred re-rolls give more benefit to the spearmen because they have more attacks. I've done the math-hammer (http://www.warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=19645.msg236885#msg236885) if you're interested. :)

I'll go through a list of "ideal" empire unit builds.

CORE

Spearmen: 29 + warrior priest (or arch lector), full command: - this configuration lets you deploy 7-wide and potentially dish out 14 attacks with hatred re-rolls from the priest (minus any that get killed first). It's the only way for empire armies to do any kind of real damage with their infantry.

Swordsmen: 25-30 strong, standard, musician, add a champion only if a character is in the unit. For detachments, go for either archers/handgunners or swordsmen/halberdiers/militia. Archers are better for a unit that you plan on being agressive with, hangunners and crossbowmen are more defensive due to "move or fire"

Halberdiers: Use in 3x3 detachments for parent units. They're good in this role, and really bad as a parent unit. Don't take shields.

Archers: 10 strong, upgraded to huntsmen, or use as detachments.

Militia: Units of 5 make excellent general-purpose march blocking/ distraction/ suicide/ "get in the way of that thing that's about to charge your cannon" units - if you've got some spare detachment "slots" to fill, bring these. I recommend bringing a single independent unit of 10 crossbows/hangunners purely to give access to a couple of units of 5 free company.

Handgunners: Either as a 10-strong parent unit or as a 5-10 strong detachment. Musician is essential, standard isn't. If you're going for the marksman, the hochland long rifle is great for scaring enemy characters, but you'll need 3+ rifles to have a decent chance of actually killing a character over the course of the game.

Crossbowmen: 10 strong, musician

Regular Knights: 6 strong, musician. Insanely useful little unit.

SPECIAL

Inner circle knights: Take in large units (10-12) with full command. If you want to take IC knights, the unit is the absolute best place to put a warrior priest. Arch lector is better off with the infantry to provide the 12" leadership bubble to the bulk of the army,or on a waraltar if you plan on using him aggressively. Alternatively, field them in 3x3 blocks and use in the same way as halberdiers.

Outriders: 5-8 strong, musician

Pistoliers: 5-8 strong, musician

Greatswords: 25-30 strong, full command.

RARE

Flagellants: 21 strong (or take 2 small units if you have the spare rare slot(s)), deploy 7-wide. Never mind combat resolution, the unit's unbreakable.. the unit is there to slowly grind the enemy down or keep them in place unit a unit of your knights etc. can hit them in the flank.

MattKienbaum
30-01-2008, 13:41
Thanks, But I do have one question for Scarletsquid. In 7th edition don't you have to have 5 models wids to deni rankes?
I ment for this thred to be focused on Empire but all unit sugestions are welcome, I intended to try and do one for each army over time.
Keep them comming

Lucky24/7
30-01-2008, 14:01
no you just have to have unit stregth 5

@ squig: You do know you cant upgrade detachments fyi ?

Im sorry if im reading that wrong but its the impression I got.

Krootman
30-01-2008, 14:41
I really like the marksmen idea in the small units of hand gunners, will really scare people and allow you to restrict the deployment of characters which could be a game breaker for some armies.

FurryMiguell
30-01-2008, 15:30
Flaggies still get rank bonus! easier if you can actually win a fight without having to kill all of the enemy troops! Then again, I cant remember the flaggies stats, so idk if they are actually some mean killers, or a bunch of monks:p

Cheers:D