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Nekharoth
28-09-2005, 03:56
These are a few ideas I have come up with to flesh out Chaos Undivided as a real power in its own right, rather than merely a means to gain a tactical advantage by including multiple marks and daemons of different gods.

This proposed appendix to Hordes of Chaos gives Chaos Undivided players a small selection of Daemons (including the already extant Furies), a Daemonic Steed variant for Characters, a Chaos Spawn upgrade and a powerful Lord/Greater Daemon of Chaos Undivided. As such, this appendix is a conglomeration of existing rules/troop types, additions to existing rules/troop types, as well as new troop types and characters.

Following the fluff around the character Be'lakor, I have envisaged Chaos Undivided to be aggressive, shadowy and deceptive. Any ideas, comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Also anyone wishing to translate these proposed rules/ideas into 40K is more than welcome to make suggestions on this thread. Note that none of these ideas or points costs have been playtested.

Chaos Furies (Daemonic Unit)
Points/model: 15

M: 4, WS: 4, BS: 0, S: 4, T: 3, W: 1, I: 4, A: 1, Ld: 6

You may include up to 1 unit of Furies for each character with the Mark of Chaos Undivided in your army.

Unit Size: 5-20
Special Rules: Daemonic, Flying Unit.


Hellshades (Daemonic Unit)
Points/model: 18

M: 4, WS: 4, BS: 0, S: 4, T: 3, W: 1, I: 4, A: 2, Ld: 8

You may include up to 2 units of Hellshades for each character with the Mark of Chaos Undivided in your army.

Unit Size: 10+
Special Rules: Daemonic, Shadow Beings (Unit Strength 2).


Nightmare (Ridden Monster)

M: 8, WS: 4, BS: 0, S: 5, T: 5, W: 3, I: 3, A: 2, Ld: 8

A character with the Mark of Chaos Undivided may ride a Nightmare (+65 pts).

Special Rules: Daemonic, Fly.


Spawn of Chaos (Rare)
Points/model: 60

M: 2D6, WS: 3, BS: 0, S: 4, T: 5, W: 3, I: 2, A: D6+1, Ld: 10

You may include up to 2 Spawn as a single Rare choice

Unit Size: 1
Options: Upgrade to Hellspawn of Chaos Undivided (+1 on all rolls to hit) for +15 points.
Special Rules: Special Movement, Special Attacks, Unbreakable, Fear, Unit Strength 3.


Shadow Tyrant (Lord)
Points/model: 525

M: 6, WS: 8, BS: 0, S: 5(6), T: 5, W: 4, I: 8, A: 5, Ld: 9

A Shadow Tyrant counts as one Lord and one Hero choice.

Magic: A Shadow Tyrant is a Level 4 Wizard. It knows spells from the Lore of Shadow.
Mark of Chaos: Mark of Chaos Undivided.
Special Rules: Daemonic, Terror, Fly, Unit Strength 3, Radiance of Dark Glory, Blade of Shadows*, Hellish Fury**.

*Counts as Blade of The Ether
**The Daemon has +1 Strength on its profile. (Same points cost as Might of Khorne).

Nekharoth
28-09-2005, 04:06
Notes on Shadow Beings special rule (Hellshades): The idea here is that these daemons appear as dark flickering shadowy figures, making it difficult for their opponents in combat to see how many daemons are actually there, or giving the illusion that there are more daemons that there really are. Essentially this will mean that if a unit of Hellshades wins a round of combat they only need to have at least half the normal number of models to cause an automatic flee reaction.

A second idea I had for either this unit (or another different unit...) was to give them the ability to become Ethereal. This would have to be announced by the controlling player at the beginning of the turn, but would have the down side of giving the Hellshades -1 attack on that turn (ie. 1 rather than 2). They would still, however be vulnerable to magic and magical weapons as is fitting for daemons.

Hideous Loon
28-09-2005, 07:28
Hmm. I don't know, really. From one perspective, I love them (partically because, as far as I know, noone has attempted to make the Undivided side of Daemons before), but from the other... They *are* very fluffy, if we're to follow up on Be'Lakor's fluff, but I'm not sure that Undivided are that that sneaky.

And what models will you use for them, as all the other Daemon models are aligned? Converting would be swell, but how?

nurgle_boy
28-09-2005, 08:03
black cotton wool! the perfect daemons!

otherwise, i can see horrors painted black, with different arms could work...

Nekharoth
28-09-2005, 08:19
the idea came about as a reaction to the polarisation in opinion of what Chaos Undivided actually means, as there are two 'theories' supported by GW's supplements for chaos armies over the past years:

either (1) followers of Chaos Undivided worship the four main chaos powers with equal fervour and are granted equal favour by each deity.

...or (2) the 4 'main' chaos gods are the most powerful out of many (perhaps infinite...) chaos gods, or possibly just principal aspects of one all-powerful chaos god. followers of Chaos Undivided worship all chaos gods in all their aspects.

i tend towards the second theory, and if there are other lesser chaos gods or if chaos itself is more monotheistic in structure (if chaos can be said to have structure in any sense...), then it stands to reason that daemonic entities of Chaos Undivided should exist.

as far as the fluff is concerened, i didn't mean 'sneaky' so much in the sense of Skaven for instance, but more malicious, cruel and deceptive, but they should still have a sense of more straightforward aggression to distance them from the same evil scheming/conspiracy ideas that underpin Tzeentch.

the idea was more to distance them from the heavily conceptually bound chaos god themes such as war/bloodshed, magic, pestilence, pleasure/pain into more straightforward, evil daemons. the special rules i came up with, mostly associated with the whole 'shadowy' theme, i think are necessary to establish them as daemons, not just another basic regimental unit.

i was thinking of doing some concept art, and maybe some conversions for the miniatures, but i'd like to hear some other people's thoughts and opinions first.

Nekharoth
28-09-2005, 08:24
lol at the cotton wool idea.

cheapest. army. ever. :p

the imagery i had in mind was largely based around Be'lakor. i was thinking legions of darkly angelic figures. not necessarily with wings or anything, except maybe for the Furies. in fact, anyone who did something to replace the existing Fury models would be doing the world a service. damn they suck!

Hideous Loon
29-09-2005, 18:07
Perhaps you should make something resembling a Fury, since they would be devotees of the same "power", so to speak. Or Be'Lakor and his 'angelic army of Doom', as you indeed said. (Damn, need to start reading other people's posts...)

And stop the double-posting, please!

Hellebore
09-10-2005, 01:29
Convert furies from the dark elf harpies perhaps with less human heads.

The lithe bodies work well with the 'dark angel' image.

As for greater daemons and such- if you are following chaos undivided shouldn't they be the most POWERFUL daemons, being the combined power of ALL the chaos gods together?

hellebore

Nekharoth
09-10-2005, 04:14
thanks for the ideas about conversions, they all sound good. although i think i was looking for some thoughts/feedback on concepts, rules and playability before i got too involved with the models themselves.

hellebore - i understand what you mean about them having the power of all 4 of the (major) chaos gods, but i wouldn't make them too super powerful for the sake of playability. at the moment i have based the (so-called) Shadow Tyrant on a daemon prince, but it would be good if it was more on the level of the other greater daemons and have it's own daemonic gift(s), though it should not be more powerful than say Bloodthirsters and Lords of Change, that would just get a little ridiculous.

GW's fluff on Chaos Undivided is contradictory. i see it more in the context of worshipping chaos holistically in all it's myriad forms - not so much specifically worshipping Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle and Slaanesh equally. there are other chaos gods as well such as Malal, and the existence of others is hinted at, though not discussed specifically.

it's also worth noting that Furies (the only existing undivided daemons) are quite weak. their points cost is really just pushed up because they can fly. their low leadership makes them highly susceptable to instability. one of the problems that i see with Furies is that they seem to have become a compulsory choice in Chaos armies to use as war machine hunters, everyone takes them just for that reason.

oh and sorry for the double posting stuff. i'm not used to forums where you can edit...