View Full Version : 2250 Ogres vs WE

30-01-2008, 13:34
I'm playing tomorrow with a friend's Wood Elves. This is the army list I'm thinking of taking. Any comments welcome, especially regarding Gnoblars and their best uses, as this will be the first time I'll be packing so many of them (but my Gnoblar Hordes are slowly amassing, muahahahahaha! Ahem:angel:). Here goes:

Ogre Tyrant pts281
Heavy Armor, Luck Gnoblar
Tenderiser, Wyrdstone Necklace

Butcher pts155

Butcher pts155
Sword of Battle

Butcher pts150
Sword of Might

3xOgre Bulls pts117
extra Hand Weapon

3xOgre Bulls pts117
extra Hand Weapon

3xOgre Bulls pts117
extra Hand Weapon

3xOgre Bulls pts117
extra Hand Weapon

3xIronguts pts189
Standard, War Banner

3xIronguts pts144

21xGnoblars pts42

20xGnoblars pts40

20xGnobblars pts40

3xLeadbelchers pts175

4xYhetees pts260

1xGorger pts75

1xGorger pts75

Total: 2249pts / 92 Models / 8 Casting / 5 Dispel

A few comments: My typical OK list includes 2 more units of Leadbelchers and no Yhetees. I've kept one unit of 'Belchers to deal with a Cavalry unit, if there is one, or to take a pop at some archers, or even a Treeman, if I'm feeling real desperate. :P The Gorgers are there to deny his archers retreat and for general usefulness. Also, I tend to use very few command models, what's your take on this?

30-01-2008, 13:43
I dont think the grogers will really be very usefull as his entire army can move and will move so you really dont need to deploy on his side. I think you should take some trappers as the 360 los will really help. Also they should be able to charge alot of wood elf units and hold them for at least a turn so that you can get a bullcharge off.

Jack of Blades
30-01-2008, 13:50
Standards may not be that necessary against WE, but with around 4 models per unit you're going to be eating your own leg after the fight because you didn't bring bellowers.

3 Butchers is a seriously good choice. Toothcracker is imo the better spell against WE. Their arrows will wound you on 6's now, and 5's at close range, plus they have to hit and make sure they don't get hit. Then if you do lose a model you're stubborn on LD9. Might want to check that you do get stubborn if testing on your general's leadership and he is stubborn though, I haven't really looked into it.

Gnoblars are fine distractions, but that is imo a bit many. 2 units is enough, one to provide some distraction and another to clog up eventual treemen ancients with the annoyance of netlings.

The magic items on the butchers however, make no sense. Nor do they on the Tyrant. Why do you want a great weapon that causes D3 wounds against WE? you don't want to get involved with the Treeman and the rest is cake. Also, wyrdstone necklace is one of the most overrated items in Warhammer. Not only is it a meager save, it also has a 1/6 chance of causing a wound on you. In addition to this the save is almost never needed (seriously, T5 and 5 Wounds - your Tyrant just isn't going to make use of that Wyrdstone Necklace). It's a waste of points, take Longstrider instead. At least you can pursue them better that way, and get a longer charge. Then, just take a Sword of Striking and the Fistful of Laurels. You don't really need more than that against WE.

As for the Butchers, put the Skullmantle on one and cast Braingobbler on any Wild Riders (can't remember if they're ItP or not, if they are just target the general's unit). Next, get the Halfling Cookbook on the third.

If he has any Treekin, put the Cannibal Totem on your Ironguts and go hunt 'em. AFAIK they have the same base size, but I don't really know...

Rest looks good, do what you want with the remaining points. I'd fit a Scraplauncher in there if you have one, in some way.

30-01-2008, 14:24
As far as Stubborn goes, you can use either that or the general's leadership, so no stubborn on ld9 unless we're talking about the tyrant's unit. Anyhow, Gut Magic is indeed very good, and 3xButcher is my typical set up anyhow.

Now, as for the set up of the Magic Items, the Tenderiser might indeed be too much, but makes chopsticks out of the regular Treeman and provides tremendous overkill in challenges, if you can find any. Nevertheless, your Tyrant set up is very good too, so I might play that after all. As for the Butchers' equipment though, people tend to forget that they can hold their own in a fight, and a magical weapon also negates those pseudo-wards. Also, very few units of the WE are not ItP, and their relatively high leadership makes it a bit of a waste of the Scullmantle. It will probably only affect the archers, who, with Skullmantle, will be rolling on Ld7. I suppose it's not that bad, but I'm not very convinced... As for the Cookbook, I never liked that item at all, even though others swear by it. Let's call it a personal quirk.:)

I considered Trappers myself, but all they seem good for is denying him of a scout position, if I roll better. And I doubt that he'll be taking any scouts, really. They can't hold their own against anything, maybe only block a line of sight occasionally.

If he has any Treekin, I was going to take them on with the Tyrant, but the Cannibal Totem is totally out of the question, as I could never be sure that he'll be taking any.

Also, can I use the Ironfist as a shield if my Tyrant is wielding a magic weapon (not two-handed, of course)?

EDIT: Better reading of the army book, indicates that indeed I can. Nevertheless, 12pts seems a bit much for +1 AS in CC...

Jack of Blades
30-01-2008, 16:09
Indeed, and remember that Ogres are like Elves in an ironic way. They defend by smashing the opposition into a fine paste as you probably know. Aye, Butchers are decent in combat, but that doesn't really matter against WE. They'll be hitting on 4+, wounding on 3/2+ and have 3 attacks, it's not really spectacular but it's something I agree. Honestly, negating that 5+ ward save with a single Butcher per unit won't do much. Anyway, please edit out the Wyrdstone... it pains me to see it. :/

All right, no Skullmantle then!

That's the point, they can't hold their own against anything. What they can do is threaten to get the rear bonus if those wild riders charge your Ironguts, while still threatening those archers and screening your bulls and so on. Multipurpose things, really. Let's just say they're the spice. You don't see it, you don't question what spice it is, but it's there and it does something. Consider that your opponent will likely think of them like you do, harmless, and use this to your advantage. They're not COMPLETELY useless in a fight if the enemies are lightly armoured , don't cost a whole lot of points, and I assure you that Sharp Stuff will cause pain to him, and he may then begin to overestimate them once he rolls 3 1's for the Wild Rider's armour saves, or you kill a Treeman, both with sharp stuff.

Taking for example, 15/20 of them, will give you 30/40 sharp stuff shots hitting on 5+. The thing is, all this is good for is making your opponent roll as many dice as possible - some of it will turn out into 1s - so make sure you Sharp Stuff something valuable, but something that doesn't have multiple wounds. Sharp Stuffing some glade guards is hardly worth it, but Wardancers, Wild Riders and such could and probably will take damage.

When he begins to overestimate them, just align them to give your other units flank/rear charging opportunities.

30-01-2008, 16:38
Unfortunately, S2 sharp stuff can never wound a T6 target, like the treeman... Still, I'll try to put in a unit of Trappers. I will post the final list tomorrow, along with a battle report (probably), but until then keep the advice coming, guys! And thanks! :D

Jack of Blades
30-01-2008, 16:38
DOH! typical of me to make such mistakes. Ah well, battle report! I'm looking forward to it. Just make sure you take enough trappers. The more you take, the more 1s he can roll.

02-02-2008, 20:26
You should probably take a few of the ogre units up to 4 modles.

02-02-2008, 22:42
I like all the small units, the advantage of wood elves is almost none of them are your typical ranked units so they can run circles around u and prevent u from getting the charge...but with alot of units you will be able to give him a taste of his own and take away his mobility so I think you should keep ur units small and take lots of them.

03-02-2008, 21:13
This is what i tell everyone make a group of 6 ogre bull and put them with the tyrant it really helps because you get like a solid 24 str group and not much cannot avoid breaking after you attack