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HobbitTank
30-01-2008, 19:04
Just a few quick questions...

What is the Adeptus Mechanicus position on the Emperor; divine or not? Has this changed much since the Horus Heresy? How does the Emperor relate to the Machine God in the view of the Adeptus Mechanicus? How do the Inquisition, Ecclesiarchy, and Space Marine Legions view the Adeptus Mechanicus belief in the Machine God? Is the "machine spirit" concept part of the Imperial Creed?

Just wondering. Thanks.

HT

Chaplain Dionitas
30-01-2008, 19:22
Most of The Adeptus Mechanicus view the Emperor and The Omnissiah as one and the same. The Emperor had long agao forged forged an alliance with Mars(The treaty of Mars).
The birthplace of the Adeptus Mechanicus was the ancient Forge World Mars. Mars was colonised early in human history, and developed separately from Terra in both cultural and technological lines. The arid surface of Mars was terraformed, and under a man-made atmosphere the colony flourished.

The Cult Mechanicus believes knowledge to be the manifestation of divinity, and holds that anything embodying or containing knowledge is holy because of it. The supreme object of devotion is therefore the omniscient Machine God (also known as the Deus Mechanicus or Omnissiah), an immanent and omnipotent spirit governing machinery and knowledge. Generally, this deity is held to be either subordinate to or an aspect of the God-Emperor (or, most commonly within the Cult itself, both are held to be aspects or faces of the same being). The Omnissiah is believed to be friendly to humanity, and to be the originator of all human technological and scientific knowledge.

HorgothTheGreat
30-01-2008, 19:24
I think it's something along the lines of, the Machine God and the Emperor are seen as the same entity and that by worshipping the Machine God they are in turn worshipping the Emperor. I'm not sure if this is right, however. So please, feel free to say if it isn't. I just remember that some how everyone gets along just swell and things go about as normal.

jimbobodoll
30-01-2008, 19:24
All answers to the best of my STC knowledge:


What is the Adeptus Mechanicus position on the Emperor; divine or not?
Yes he is divine in their beliefs, they acknowledge his divinity in terms of his dual-role as god of machines as well as man though. (Whilst the Ecclesiarchy worship his other aspect)


Has this changed much since the Horus Heresy?
Quite definately, as pre-Heresy there was no Religion in the Imperium, the cult of the Emperor started well after his internment on the Golden Throne (sponsored by Andrex)


How does the Emperor relate to the Machine God in the view of the Adeptus Mechanicus?
As stated above, the Adeptus Mechanicus believes the Emproer has 2 aspects, one based on the flesh, one on machine. They worship his divinity in the latter of these forms.


How do the Inquisition, Ecclesiarchy, and Space Marine Legions view the Adeptus Mechanicus belief in the Machine God?
Inquisition: Such a varied organisation (Puritan and Radical) you are likely to find the whole gambit of beliefs here... From viewing the Adeptus Mechanicus as treading on thin ice (but perhaps untouchable as an organisation because of the power they wield?) all the way to co-operating with them (Re: Ordo Xenos working with them to recover and investigate Alien Artefacts)

Ecclesiarchy: Definitely in disagreement here. Both sides have vastly different views of the nature of the Emperor's divinity as discussed above.

Adeptus Astartes: Again, a wide range of beliefs. From the Iron Hands Chapter with close links to the Adeptus Mechanicus, to the Black Templars with close links to the Ecclesiarchy (IIRC).


Is the "machine spirit" concept part of the Imperial Creed?
A bloody good question. What do you exactly mean by "Imperial Creed" though? Will you irritate the Ecclesiarchy by not blessing your re-caff machine? Probably not... This is a tricky one for me - perhaps another poster will give you a much better answer.


Just wondering. Thanks.
You're welcome. :p

Chaplain Dionitas
30-01-2008, 19:40
The Imperial Infantrymans Uplifting Primer has a couple pages of litanies and devotionals to the machine spirit(s).e.g. Bleesing the spirit of your lasrifle

dr.oetk3r
30-01-2008, 20:30
(sponsored by Andrex)

That made me laugh :p

So, the Emperor and the Machine god are one and the same?

Mechanicus
30-01-2008, 20:51
I'd agree with pretty much what everyone else is saying, though I'd add that the Emperor was seen as the Omnissiah, the avatar of the Machine God (though like God and Jesus in Christianity, they are often seen as one and the same in 40k) since the alliance with Mars. Whether the 'Imperial Truth' Imperium knew the religiosity of the Mechanicum, or whether more secular members came into power (and later betrayed the Emperor), or whether they accepted the Mechanicum as a necessary evil, we don't yet know.

Baltar
30-01-2008, 21:27
Essentially, as I understand it, the Machine God and the Emperor are two aspects of the same god, the Machine God is the aspect that rules over machines, and the Emperor is the aspect that rules over humanity.

Or so it was explained in Dark Adeptus.

HobbitTank
31-01-2008, 02:01
Thank you, all.
By "Imperial Creed", I meant the general religious beleifs that people are tought. Understanding that there is some friction between the Ecclesiarchy and the Adeptus Mechanicus, would members of the Ecclesiarchy still teach Imperial citizens the importance of the Machine Spirit? Would they even acknowledge it?

What of the traitor AdMech units? Do they still harbor any recognition of the machine god ( as corrupted a form as may be), or have their old beliefs been entirely replaced by those of chaos.

Mad Jack Deacon
31-01-2008, 02:33
It's my opinion that the Mechanicus views the Omnissiah and the Emperor much like the Holy Trinity of the Catholic Church.

Keep that in mind and you probably won't be too far from wrong.

Khaine's Messenger
31-01-2008, 04:15
Would they even acknowledge it?

I think that priests of the Ecclesiarchy/Ministorum and the AdMech don't really acknowledge each other in theological discussions; at the most, an Ecclesiarchy priest would make some remark, and the tech priest would make some remark about it being the same god, but letting it drop there. The AdMech cult is sorta "mysteries"-based, unlike the Ecclesiarchy. The latter won't rail against the former, since the former doesn't really make active attempts to convert others into the fold, and in the end, people know who to go for when they want particular advice....


What of the traitor AdMech units? Do they still harbor any recognition of the machine god ( as corrupted a form as may be), or have their old beliefs been entirely replaced by those of chaos.

What was once the core of the Dark Mechanicum was probably made up of a collection of stereotypical lobotomized sociopaths and self-modifying kooks. They believe in the Quest for Knowledge, but they've literally crossed the line, and like the traitor legions, they may revel in the fruits of betrayal. More recent traitor AdMech groups could make the mistake of equating certain chaos gods or entities with the Machine God (there are several prominent examples in the BL novels), and those that are just plain traitors...well, that's all circumstances.

ryng_sting
31-01-2008, 17:32
The cult of the Emperor, in fact, existed before the Heresy.

The BT have no links to the Ecclesiarchy whatsoever, and fought against its troops at the height of the Reign of Blood.

Many AM equated the Emperor with the Omnissiah, a state of affairs he could not refute openly, since the GC would not have been possible without them. Some, however, felt the Emperor was nothing more than an impostor, and it was this resentment that Horus's agents preyed on prior to the heresy,

Malevon
31-01-2008, 21:40
As I understand it, the Adeptus Mechanicus is as riven with division as the Inquisition, ranging from those who think the Emperor was the Machine God incarnate (the Omnissiah), and those who respect the Emperor's work but believe he was no more than a great man, to those outright deny the Emperor's divinity. Some of those in the latter group might acknowledge a less savory deity as the Machine God incarnate...