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Fire1098
31-01-2008, 13:47
I did a search and didn't find much on this. I was looking to build a Tau Titan and was wondering if anyone has built or maybe seen some Titans. I was thinking the Mechwarrior Madcat or Vulture chasis with a devilfish frame and some apocolyptic style weapons. Heavy railguns, maybe some sort of high rate of fire plasma defence system. Maybe a blast weapon and some missiles. I would appreciate any input you guys might have.

~C

Damocles8
31-01-2008, 13:52
I personally think that the Madcat or Thor, possible even a Daishi....these would be easy converts and you can use their existing weaponry as needed, it would make sense too

Anardakil
31-01-2008, 13:55
A swede on the forums named Vash or Vash the stampede or something like that has made a couple of great looking tau titans. Either on the painting forum or project logs. Look for them :)

Bregalad
31-01-2008, 14:01
Here is the link to Vash's Tau Titan:
http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114247&highlight=tau+renegade&page=3
Also have a look at my Gundam Apocalypse Tau thread (see link below).

Cambion Daystar
31-01-2008, 14:02
I don't expect the tau to use titans like imperials. Those are far to slow for tau to use. I expect them to use superheavy skimmers and ships like a manta without the troop carrying capacity (super-heavy gunships)

[SD] Bob Plisskin
31-01-2008, 14:09
I don't expect the tau to use titans like imperials. Those are far to slow for tau to use. I expect them to use superheavy skimmers and ships like a manta without the troop carrying capacity (super-heavy gunships)

This it what I'd heard, but then the Tau are always developing new tactics and weapons, so why not?!

You can get Gundam models that you assemble from sprues (but the only place I've seen them is in tokyo!)

Fire1098
31-01-2008, 14:11
I don't expect the tau to use titans like imperials. Those are far to slow for tau to use. I expect them to use superheavy skimmers and ships like a manta without the troop carrying capacity (super-heavy gunships)

I was thinking something fast like and Eldar Titan that skims along or moves really fast. Something akin to the Mechawarrior mechs that can cruise but still carry a big gun. It would all be VDR of course, but it could get interesting. I'm not a real big fan of the super heavy flyers. I understand the tactics for them, just not really interested in them. That, and they are rather pricey from forgeworld.

~C

MrMojoZ
31-01-2008, 14:13
Bob Plisskin;2312881']
You can get Gundam models that you assemble from sprues (but the only place I've seen them is in tokyo!)

I have several Gundam models I assembled from sprues and I bought none of them in Tokyo...

[SD] Bob Plisskin
31-01-2008, 14:14
Good for you.

sukigod
31-01-2008, 14:16
As much as I'de hate to give up such a great model to the Tau (wink), going back to some of the original inspiration for the Tau designs should help. My first thought - if I were to make a Tau Titan - would be the Macross Destroid Monster

http://www.collectiondx.com/node/1276

http://www.fridaynightfirefight.com/forums/index.php?act=Print&client=printer&f=4&t=3134

Scroll down a bit on the last one and see a model showing some scale for the plastic kit.

I'd be scared of that one.

sukigod
31-01-2008, 14:23
Here's another that might work very well and it's available in various scales...

http://www.gamerabaenre.com/glaug.htm

The Tactical Pod Glaug or the original Marauder from the Battletech tabletop game.

Again, similar styling from the original sources.

Damocles8
31-01-2008, 14:33
wow can they actually get away with that crap?

pookie
31-01-2008, 15:40
thing is tho, Tau dont use titans and it doesnt fit into there style of warfare.

a search on the forums owuld have been a better idea as this question/related topic comes up every few weeks.

at the end of the day tau use the Manta etc as there 'titan' support and dont need giant machs too!

Forbiddenknowledge
31-01-2008, 15:42
Tau do not use titans - they do not fit in with the style of war. Nor do they need any thing to make people think Gundam IMO, but just because it goes against fluff, don't let it stop you. No reason you can't make one if you want, they just don't use that kind of vehicle.

whiteperegrine
31-01-2008, 15:44
thing is tho, Tau dont use titans and it doesnt fit into there style of warfare.

at the end of the day tau use the Manta etc as there 'titan' support and dont need giant machs too!

...agreed. from everything I have ever found on the Tau they dont even use Titans...to "static" for their fighting style. the Manta, as mentioned, is their answer to the Titans used by other races...~

Frecus
31-01-2008, 15:53
Everyone needs giant mechs!

Whether they want to or not....

Frecus
The glade wanderer
Madwarrior

Orca
31-01-2008, 15:53
Nothing's stopping you from doing a flying mecha suit that "counts as" a Barracuda or some such. Anime style robots are more flight capable than the Imperial 40k giant walkers.

LoneSniperSG
31-01-2008, 16:17
What creeps me out is that Vash's Titan Hunter looks like it belongs... It has the Tau look without being Tau.. scary.

Fire1098
31-01-2008, 17:02
Allright, enough already with the it doesn't fit into the Tau battle style. I don't know too many folks that can afford a Manta to begin with. Next, it's something that is "in my opinion". So stop telling me I wrong. The Tau move fast and strike hard. I already mentioned it would be a fast moving vehicle. Maybe a defense for an occupied world. Something that wouldn't need to be re-deployed quickly. I did a search here and didn't find a whole lot on it. Thank you Bregalag for your input and aiming me towards Vash's Titan, or Titan hunter whatever it was. I'm not looking for reasons not to do it, so please keep those to yourself, or another post, or where ever.

~C

jfrazell
31-01-2008, 17:19
Tau superheavies are nice giant skimmers. Why would they need titans? Thats so last millennium.

Leunam
31-01-2008, 17:30
Are you sure you did a search? Tau Titan threads are pretty common.

Tau super-heavy equipment would either be their flyers (which the Manta works well as) or a massive skimmer.

Fire1098
31-01-2008, 17:56
Are you sure you did a search? Tau Titan threads are pretty common.

Tau super-heavy equipment would either be their flyers (which the Manta works well as) or a massive skimmer.

Well, the Eldar Titan counts as a skimmer. That's a start. Do you know anyone with a Manta? People continually bring that up but I don't know anyone that has one or has 2K in one drop for one.

sheck2
31-01-2008, 18:42
Fire1098,

I am in the camp that also beleives the TAu would not build / produce a 'titan' like the imperials.

On the other hand, here some thoughts on how you could integrate a titan into your Tau army...

* Capture of an imperial Titan...mod'd by Tau...for example replacing imperials weapons with Railguns, MPs, target arrays, etc.

* Splinter sept cutoff by 'X'...viable fluff is an army of ONLY suits i.e. no vehicles (HHs, DF, etc.) just FWs and different suits...with a 'titan' being the largest suit on the block.

* A mini-titan i.e. something at most twice as large as a Crisis with upgraded firepower...

:)

Raven Down
31-01-2008, 18:47
Another possible design is a Multi leg walker like this http://www.wargamerau.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=47119

Leunam
31-01-2008, 20:06
Do you know anyone with a Manta? People continually bring that up but I don't know anyone that has one or has 2K in one drop for one.

No, actually, but I personally have enough money to buy one (not that I would). Even if you don't know anyone who has one, that doesn't mean it hasn't sold at all.

And by super-heavy skimmer, I meant more along the lines of the Eldar Cobra and Scorpion.

Derling
31-01-2008, 20:15
Bob Plisskin;2312881']This it what I'd heard, but then the Tau are always developing new tactics and weapons, so why not?!


I'm of the opinion the might have a few prototype Oversized battlesuits as well. They probably do have many in the main stream (as indicated in back ground material regarding the Manta Missile destoryer), but in an eternally large galaxy,some smart little earth caste probably developed such a thing.




You can get Gundam models that you assemble from sprues (but the only place I've seen them is in tokyo!)


I generally think Gundam suits make bad Tau conversions because they look similar, but are still too stylized to really look like a 40k model. slapping a railgun in the hands of a Rick Dom makes it look like just that...a Rick Dom with a 40k bit attached to it.

someone has already pointed this out, but Vash's work with Bionicles and plasticard really to make a better base for a true Tau (and unique) looking SH walker. You might want to consider that route!

Bregalad
31-01-2008, 21:00
Well, people might know that I am a bit touchy with armies contradicting official fluff. Here is why I think that Titans are okay with Tau and do NOT contradict current background.

1.) Tau are evolving fast, in technology and strategy/tactics. So no definite answers can be given on what is possible in technology and strategy/tactics.
2.) Tau have had very few clashes with Imperial Titans. The first one was desastrous, the second one was victorious because of special Tiger Shark flyers. With Apocalypse, Tau might encounter more and more Titans, so they will have to develop more tactics than this one trick pony.
3.) Not all Titans are clumsy and static. Have a look at the Eldar Titan that is highly mobile.
4.) Tau already have mobile suits, so Earth Caste developing mobile anti-grav Titan suits seems credible.

BTW, many people say, Tau are just a Gundam rip-off, so using those seems acceptable to many.

Baltar
01-02-2008, 00:02
Why wouldn't the Tau Titan just be a REALLY REALLY big Battlesuit?

shadowen
01-02-2008, 00:43
the tau don't use titans. the only "titan" version for them is the manta missile destroyer.

Imperialis_Dominatus
01-02-2008, 04:18
A swede on the forums named Vash or Vash the stampede or something like that has made a couple of great looking tau titans. Either on the painting forum or project logs. Look for them :)

I'm not sure what your sig means but your avatar intrigues me.

And Vash's stuff is pretty sweet.

VanHel
01-02-2008, 04:48
I could easily see a giant sized battlesuit used as a tau titan.

Ddraiglais
01-02-2008, 05:17
Allright, enough already with the it doesn't fit into the Tau battle style. I don't know too many folks that can afford a Manta to begin with. Next, it's something that is "in my opinion". So stop telling me I wrong. The Tau move fast and strike hard. I already mentioned it would be a fast moving vehicle. Maybe a defense for an occupied world. Something that wouldn't need to be re-deployed quickly. I did a search here and didn't find a whole lot on it. Thank you Bregalag for your input and aiming me towards Vash's Titan, or Titan hunter whatever it was. I'm not looking for reasons not to do it, so please keep those to yourself, or another post, or where ever.

~C

The problem is that they are correct. Tau don't use titans. Noone said that you had to buy a manta. You could scratch build one. If you don't have the skills to do it, then pay someone to do it for you. It would still be cheaper than buying the FW one.

I have always been tempted to start a Tau army. The big thing that keeps me from doing it is that they don't use titans, and I really love my titans.

Khaine's Messenger
01-02-2008, 05:21
If you were gonna include a Titan with Tau forces, it wouldn't be a battlesuit, it would be an entirely separate "program." And since they would probably be crewed by more than one Tau, they might have looser restrictions on who can crew them (as opposed to battlesuits, which are only granted to those who are considered politically trustworthy) and a less associated risk of "battlesuit neurosis," although commanding them might still fall under the same restrictions. Tau Knight-scale "walkers" might have singular crews, though, and may be little more than large "suits" themselves.

Here's what I think:
--General Appearance--
Tau Titans aren't anthropomorphic as such, but neither are they purpose-build "aerodynamic" flyers (no wings!) or troop-carriers engaging in "hover mode" to assist ground forces. Unlike superheavies, however, they do have some appearance similar to actual animals. Overall, they're not like suits writ large, since they use a cockpit/command center design that looks, on the outside, almost like the profile of a Hammerhead or the pilot's bubble from a Manta Missile Destroyer, rather than the sensor node you see atop Crisis Suits or the "helmet" of a stealthsuit. The main body is rather boxy, but with all the rounded edges you'd expect from the Tau, and studded with weapons, with some complex landing gear.

Knights are basically "bigger" battlesuits, but their size prevents them from being as easily concealed as their smaller brethren, and (to my knowledge), stealth field generators at that scale are either impractical (the sheer bulk of space displaced would make it rather hard to pull off if you use something analagous to what stealthsuits and railrifle squads have) or just not scalable. Still, one can try.

So,
1) "Battle Titan": Like the scout titan below, but large enough to house a command center and act as a "flagship." If you want to add a super weapon of mass destruction, I would suggest a scaled-down gravitic wedge.
2) "Scout Titan": Drone racks and point-defenses a must. Most absurdly heavy weapons mounted on gimbles and turrets rather than fixed positions or "arms" (giving the impression of a multi-armed no-elbowed floating monster). No legs per se, but at least four "flexible" landing gear mandatory (creative commanders can use them as manipulator arms, or, on a bad day, legs). Massive forcefield effect used as a screen for troops maneuvering beneath and behind. Atmospheric and trans-atmospheric flight impossible, but can be docked with specialized landing ships.
3) Knight-scale escorts--primarily equipped with jamming units and weapons that provide distractions and nuisances, mostly MBT(hammerhead)-scale. Small drone cohort and scout network optional, but encouraged so as to maximize orbital strike capabilities of a strike force including such high-profile targets.
4) If you really want to push your luck, throw in Kroot Gargants just for giggles (hey, they're not all salt of the earth types who blame technology for the near-genocide of their entire race...).

Note that 1) and 2) are not meant to function like the C3I trailers and missile boats from the proposed Epic Tau list, since those are both based on the Orca drop ship frame. Here you get something that's a sort-of blend between Eldar and Ork approaches to Titan-building: the Ork "pile of guns pointing every which way" and Eldar floatiness.

Anyway, if that doesn't sound Titan-y enough, then I think "battlesuit writ large" can work...I've seen a fair few conversions floating around the net that basically follow that pattern, and even though I get nervous twitches, it's all good.

Hatemonger
01-02-2008, 05:59
The answer is quite simple, really.

Tau technology is based on the understanding of scientific principles. Therefore, Tau know that it is physically impossible for a 100m-tall anthropomorphic warmachines to walk on 3m-wide feet without sinking into the ground. Therefore, Tau cannot use Titans.

Imperial technology is based on religious belief in psychic space magic. Therefore, they have no such qualms about blatantly violating natural law, and are allowed to think that superheavy tanks are viable in the 41st millennium, even though the Germans proved otherwise before the end of the 2nd millennium.

- H8

byteboy
01-02-2008, 06:41
The Heavy Arms Custom or Serpent Custom, 1/100 scale model is perfect for a Tau Titan.Two pairs of Twin Linked "Mega" Burst Cannons and a ton of either Missile Pods or SMS units for heavy Arms and a whole ton of custom weapons for Serpent Custom.

http://www.gundammad.co.uk/index.asp?section=products&idd=41

Heck I'd think almost all of them, including the Serpent custom would make great Tau Titans. I've got all the 1/100 scale from both Wing and the Endless Waltz except the plated custom Zero. They look amazing.

Gorbad Ironclaw
01-02-2008, 07:55
Don't know, the Tau seems to have a slightly more 'realistic' approach to warfare than almost any other army in the game, and that alone should rule out a vehicle such as a Titan. I mean, they might look cool, but they would really not be all that practical. Even most of the super heavy vehicles in the game is pushing it, and Titans just takes that to a whole new level.

centy
01-02-2008, 08:02
there is one being made on www.wargamerau.com in the modeling section.

Bregalad
01-02-2008, 08:10
The problem is that they are correct. Tau don't use titans.
Again: Tau evolve fast, so there is no telling what they will use tomorrow. If FW decides to do a Tau Titan, then Tau WILL officially use Titans. And Tau never had to face so many Titans on the battlefield before, with Apocalypse games getting more common. So they HAVE to adapt technology and tactics to the new situation! And the Tiger Shark Titan Killer is a one trick pony easily overcome with anti-aircraft support.


Tau technology is based on the understanding of scientific principles. Therefore, Tau know that it is physically impossible for a 100m-tall anthropomorphic warmachines to walk on 3m-wide feet without sinking into the ground. Therefore, Tau cannot use Titans.
Ever heard of Tau anti-grav technology? ;)


Don't know, the Tau seems to have a slightly more 'realistic' approach to warfare than almost any other army in the game, and that alone should rule out a vehicle such as a Titan.
Tau have flying battlesuits, not common in modern warfare. Besides, 40k is about cool fights, not realistic fights :)

pookie
01-02-2008, 08:44
Allright, enough already with the it doesn't fit into the Tau battle style. I don't know too many folks that can afford a Manta to begin with. Next, it's something that is "in my opinion". So stop telling me I wrong. The Tau move fast and strike hard. I already mentioned it would be a fast moving vehicle. Maybe a defense for an occupied world. Something that wouldn't need to be re-deployed quickly. I did a search here and didn't find a whole lot on it. Thank you Bregalag for your input and aiming me towards Vash's Titan, or Titan hunter whatever it was. I'm not looking for reasons not to do it, so please keep those to yourself, or another post, or where ever.

~C

the thing is tho, some of us dont like the idea because it doesnt fit with the known info that we already have ( and if you had searched you would know this - but would have also answered your own question and seen some other peoples ideas who do like what you saying).

if thats what you want, then cool, but Titans just dont fit the 'theme' of a Tau force, id propse a Giant mech suit, maybe knight height etc, 2/3 times bigger than a Battle suit but not on the same size as a Imp Titan, that would fit in more with what we all know currently about the Tau ( and fill your need to use a titan ).

use the revenat as a basis just swop out the Holo Fields and Weps for something more Tau like. ( also do Tau currently have anything that operates like a Void field? or do they just use advanced armour?)

Baltar
01-02-2008, 09:12
The Tau might be a bit too sophisticated to use Titans. Titans, to me, represent a huge lack of imagination in the Imperium.

[SD] Bob Plisskin
01-02-2008, 10:05
Ever heard of Tau anti-grav technology? ;)


I just got a mental image of a big titan wearing Pirahnas for shoes.

pookie
01-02-2008, 10:41
Again: Tau evolve fast, so there is no telling what they will use tomorrow. If FW decides to do a Tau Titan, then Tau WILL officially use Titans. And Tau never had to face so many Titans on the battlefield before, with Apocalypse games getting more common. So they HAVE to adapt technology and tactics to the new situation! And the Tiger Shark Titan Killer is a one trick pony easily overcome with anti-aircraft support.

yes that is very true, but as it stands they do not currently use titans and it still doesnt really fit with the theme of there background, which is my point ( although im happy if people want to do there own thing, and use VDR - hell id even have a game against someone who did this).


The Tau might be a bit too sophisticated to use Titans. Titans, to me, represent a huge lack of imagination in the Imperium.

it wasnt lack of imagination on the Imperiums part that led to the Creation of titans, but the need to fight on Mars due to its deadly atmosphere.

Super Ninja
01-02-2008, 11:24
Titans were included in 40k because... we all wanted them. Who could resist wanting a 100 foot (or Meter) tall walking death machine with guns for arms?
A few of us could of course, but thats just a few. Now, to the point, Tau are supposed to be a mobile hunter force (at least thats what their fluff says).
Titans are huge and lubering and kinda noticable. Tau+Titans=no. It doesnt fit their fluff. Game wise you could just use a Gundam or a cardboard Tauish robot, but I wouldnt do it.

[SD] Bob Plisskin
01-02-2008, 13:07
Space Marines are supposed to be a rapid insertion force : in -> cut off the head -> out : there's no room for Titans there either.

Imperialis_Dominatus
01-02-2008, 22:09
...

And Space Marines don't have Titans.

Bregalad
01-02-2008, 22:26
Let me put it this way: Claiming that Tau won't develop new tactics and technology is against their fluff. (it's like saying: "Tyranids will never evolve winged Ravenors, because I haven't seen them yet.").

And basically the whole Tau army/race concept is build around Japanese Mecha, who would deny that? I will use a 1/60 scale Gundam (see link below) "counting as" Eldar Revenant Titan in Apocalypse games. And Eldar Titans are not clunky immobile Dinosaurs of War, but fit perfectly into the Eldars dynamic strategies.

And for practical reasons: It is more fun to field a Tau Titan in Apocalypse games than nothing or a flyer proxy.

kikkoman
02-02-2008, 07:46
Titans are not Tau, because they are too unrealistic? Well, let's think about what the Tau field in the first place


The Tau bring their political (religious sorta) leaders to battle. etherals, they come within firing range of enemy artillery to stand around and be inspirational
http://gamesday.us.games-workshop.com/GamesDay2006/Atlanta_2006/Coverage/Golden_Demon/images/demon_models/8_gold_small.jpg
This one in particular is a swordstick master somehow in a society of ranged fighters that hire mercenaries to do the bladework...


Their oldest wisest most important dude rides in a pod thingy so he can yell.
http://oz.games-workshop.com/games/40k/tau/catalog/images/aunva.gif

and his elite guard from this hyper technology advanced scientific fighting force?
A bunch of shirtless guys with big spears

http://oz.games-workshop.com/games/40k/tau/catalog/images/aunva_guard1.gif
look at this guy.
Does he look like he fits in with the Devilfish mounted fire warriors, the jump shoot jump battlesuits, or the giant flying Manta?

http://oz.games-workshop.com/games/40k/tau/catalog/images/aunva_guard2.gif

if these tank topped pole handlers can fit in the Tau, a titan (which is an upscaled version of a unit they already have, a unit ICONIC of the Tau) can fit in. Yeah, Aun'Shi is a special character, Aun'Shi is a special case, his honor guard is a special case, but they still look ridiculous and go against the entire look and theme of the Tau. They are official.


Now, to the point, Tau are supposed to be a mobile hunter force (at least thats what their Fluff says).
what kind of mobile hunter force brings the LEADER OF THEIR SOCIETY into WARFARE on FOOT?
The Tau do


Titans are huge and lubering and kinda noticable. Tau+Titans=no.
what's more lumbering and noticable than a bunch of half naked guys on foot with gaudy attention grabbing clothing, while everything else with them moves twice as fast as they do?


and comparison to Eldar... even the Eldar, swift, fast hit and run dudes, have the most rock hard, slow plodding "one out of six chance of doing nothing" indestructable big robot dude around, the dreaded Wraithlord.

A Tau titan would fill a similar role in the Tau force, relentlessly advancing, screening more fragile units, allowing faster units to flank.



-hmmmm, since I compare them to Ethereals in clumsiness...

howabout an Ethereal riding in the Titan? heheh.



or another idea: Secret development by the Farsight Enclave. Fielding many battlesuit veterans, they've been researching more powerful and larger battlesuit designs. Constant warfare with orks and defense means they need more staying power and brute force.
The close combat experience of the Farsight Enclave, it can only do so much with the XV-8, never intended for close combat, so new designs are drawn up...

Shinzui
02-02-2008, 08:06
If I remember correctly the no Tau titan thing came from when Specialist games wanted fan based ideas for the Tau Epic army. One thing Jervis did say specifically is in no way would they accept Tau titans other than Manta type vehicles. That's where the Titan hunting aircraft was made to give some serious anti-Titan which other than the Manta the Tau Epic list serious lacked.

IMO the presence of Battlesuits does not mean the Tau will make massive robots. Battlesuits are fairly large armour which allows Tau to mount large wepaons as well as perform functions a normal humanoid can while inside a protective shell. A Titan on the otherhand is a glorified weapons platform which the only difference to a Manta is the presence of legs which imo are inferior. Legs and Arms/hands have no wantable function at that size.

Using the Unusual representation of the Ethereals in the game (cause they aren't like that in the fluff) is hardly proof. It's as silly as using the argument that there are Close combat Tau\ Battlesuits which train totally close combat because the Ethereals have honor blades.

kikkoman
02-02-2008, 08:56
Using the Unusual representation of the Ethereals in the game (cause they aren't like that in the fluff) is hardly proof.

so the Tau field a unit that has no basis in the fluff to be on the tabletop

and titans do not belong on the tabletop, because of the fluff...

Bregalad
02-02-2008, 09:00
Jervis was not involved in the original conception of the Tau. And, being a strategically thinking guy, he is probably afraid of copyright problems and manga-hatred, so he wants the Tau to steer away from the original Mecha concept (Like he wants the Tyranids to steer away from the original Giger-Alien-concept, the Necrons from Terminator and the Space marines from Starshiptroopers and Star Wars Stormtroopers). I have no problem with that and will happily field a Tau Titan.

BTW, a flyer is not always superior to a Titan, given e.g. heavy Anti-aircraft batteries, low clouds or debris in the air. The ethereal example is amusing, but then again, ALL races put their highest command in close combat danger. That's why Eldrad has died a thousand pointless deaths on the battlefield so far ;)

CyberShadow
02-02-2008, 10:15
I have stayed out of this up until now, largely because if the OP wants to create a Tau titan then go for it. It is not in the current GW cannon, and probably never will be, but so what? (Surely, GW would never change background! ;) )

To clarify, Jervis was responsible for setting up the guides and limits for the Epic Tau force. He consulted heavily with the 40K development group (yes, they do exist!) and Tau anthropomorphic titans do not exist in the 40K universe. We have the Manta and other fliers as alternatives (not direct compensation, or even similar roles in many cases).

The Tau background and design has changed a lot through several reasons, for example the FW BFG vessels as a result of the Fire Warrior game, but I am fairly sure that we wont see GW sanctioned Tau titans.

The lack of Tau titans does come from GW directly.

[SD] Bob Plisskin
02-02-2008, 12:06
...

And Space Marines don't have Titans.

fluffwise no but I've seen plenty on Apocalypse battle reports.

MrPickles
02-02-2008, 12:12
I am currently considering buying and converting the haloclix scarab:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psJQ2q1jkqA

Note that I am using it in a farsight tau army, so I can easily explain that it is a walker because of their less advanced technology.

sukigod
02-02-2008, 13:51
I still see no reason why Tau couldn't have aTitan-style unit. Notice I said Titan-style. The two Robotech-original models I mentioned earlier would fit stylisticly and comply with the "fluff" about Tau advancement. How else would they get to the next step except through trial and error?

In my mind, the culmination of thier "rapidly developing sciences" would be a giant anti-grav platform of some sort with gun platforms all around the perimiter and deployment ramps in between said gun emplacements for troop disembarkation. How efficient in the mind of the Tau. Force fields (Void?) protect the personel on top of the open-topped (yet not open topped for rules - void shield) platform so the commanders can have an unobstructed 360 view of the battlefield. I'm thining round as well since you don't have to make things aerodymic in styling, like aircraft wings, when using anti-grav.

Anti-grav would also be consistant with the harmony aspect as the vehicle itself would not damage the terrain (unless shot down) - Green Certified, Tau Floating Battle Fortress.

Two cents, spend it how you wish.

sukigod
02-02-2008, 13:58
...

And Space Marines don't have Titans.

Space Marines don't have them but they are attached to Space Companies when the battles are deemed too large for a single company to tackle. Planetary invasion forces spring to mind. The Horus Heresy Novel have Titans supporting Death Guards on Isstvan and nary an IG trooper in sight.

Ixajin
02-02-2008, 15:45
Also remember the titan accompanying a Tau force could be from a xeno race that has joined the Greater Good.

Imperialis_Dominatus
02-02-2008, 17:59
Bob Plisskin;2318982']fluffwise no but I've seen plenty on Apocalypse battle reports.

Yeah, but they're still the Imperium's. Different animal.

Plus, as they always say, that's Apocalypse. Tyranids and Orks are only 'suspicious' of each other in Apocalypse. At least according to that ridiculous Allies matrix.


Space Marines don't have them but they are attached to Space Companies when the battles are deemed too large for a single company to tackle. Planetary invasion forces spring to mind. The Horus Heresy Novel have Titans supporting Death Guards on Isstvan and nary an IG trooper in sight.

Yes. I can imagine the Imperium supporting the Space Marines. But Bob Plisskin was implying that because Space Marines have been supported by Titans before, even though they don't fit their fluff as a unit that is part of their army (which Titans are not), that Tau can have Titan-style units irregardless of fluff. That is, if I understood his post correctly. Thus, I saw fit to object. There's enough separation between the Imperium and the Space Marines that the two acting in mutual support isn't analagous to Tau suddenly getting a unit that doesn't fit their fluff.

Son of Morkai
02-02-2008, 21:06
BTW, a flyer is not always superior to a Titan, given e.g. heavy Anti-aircraft batteries, low clouds or debris in the air.
This is absolutely correct. Aircraft are not always ideal. Are the Tau so wrapped up in their own military dogma that they cannot upscale a battlesuit to suit their needs? I think not. Not for a culture who believes that "the only constant in the universe is change. The wise adapt."

I would expect any Tau titan to be extremely mobile, with limited flight capability (possibly able to deep strike in game terms), and small enough to take cover behind buildings or other large terrain features, more on the scale of a Knight than a Titan.

CyberShadow
02-02-2008, 21:27
In my mind, the culmination of thier "rapidly developing sciences" would be a giant anti-grav platform of some sort with gun platforms all around the perimiter and deployment ramps in between said gun emplacements for troop disembarkation. How efficient in the mind of the Tau. Force fields (Void?) protect the personel on top of the open-topped (yet not open topped for rules - void shield) platform so the commanders can have an unobstructed 360 view of the battlefield. I'm thining round as well since you don't have to make things aerodymic in styling, like aircraft wings, when using anti-grav.

Anti-grav would also be consistant with the harmony aspect as the vehicle itself would not damage the terrain (unless shot down) - Green Certified, Tau Floating Battle Fortress.

Interesting that you mention this. The Tau do have Titan equivalents, but not the 'Titans' that people think of - two legs, two arms, etc.

In the Epic Tau list, we have a Scorpionfish, which you can upgrade to be the Supreme Commander (Army Commander). The result of this is a Super Heavy skimmer War Engine, protected by a Deflector Field, with multiple missile racks.

In fact, many Tau players simply use a converted Orca for this.

Ironhand
02-02-2008, 21:36
The Tau do have a "Titan-style" unit. It's called the Manta. It's in the fluff that the Manta is the Tau equilvalent of a Titan. You can even buy one from Forge World. :D

marneus54
02-02-2008, 21:43
Bob Plisskin;2312881']This it what I'd heard, but then the Tau are always developing new tactics and weapons, so why not?!

You can get Gundam models that you assemble from sprues (but the only place I've seen them is in tokyo!)

Very wrong, I bought a few a couple months ago from a local pharmacy.

Fire1098
03-02-2008, 16:24
There are some great ideas in here, thanks to everyone with positive contributions. I wasn't asking if the idea made sense, and most of you caught on to that. Thank you for the links and the ideas. I like the "bigger battlesuit" not as big as an imperial titan idea and I think that is what I am going to run with. Something highly mobile that can mount heavier firepower than an XV8.

kikkoman
03-02-2008, 17:39
There are some great ideas in here, thanks to everyone with positive contributions. I wasn't asking if the idea made sense, and most of you caught on to that. Thank you for the links and the ideas. I like the "bigger battlesuit" not as big as an imperial titan idea and I think that is what I am going to run with. Something highly mobile that can mount heavier firepower than an XV8.

I'd recommend a multiple limbs designs. It's more 'realistic' feeling than "arms+leg big humanoid"

Also serves as a good visual compliment to the humanoid, smaller battlesuits.

The idea would not so much be mobility as stability. Maybe this Tau Titan mounts shield projectors meant to cover a ground advance, or too heavy/interferes with flight.

A solid unrelenting base for more mobile Tau units to flank around.

Maybe it houses a battlesuit team for the purpose of defense against anything that gets close to the legs, like drones to a battlesuit or devilfish, but since it's upscaled.

Bregalad
03-02-2008, 23:41
What IS this model in your attachment? Macross?

kikkoman
04-02-2008, 00:07
What IS this model in your attachment? Macross?
I don't know if it's the prototype for a kit, or if the guy just sculpted it for fun.

from the Appleseed 3D movie. It's an alright movie, watch it for the big robot fights.
http://www.appleseedthemovie.com/
though I think that's the better looking sequal I linked to


based on a manga by Masamune Shirow, who also did Ghost in the Shell.

it's introduction is at a parade showcasing the country's military power. I could imagine the Tau doing something similar (with their battlefield news media and all)

Scorpion
04-02-2008, 02:26
For some reason, the image that comes to my head when someone mentions "Tau Titans" is that of 5 "special" crisis suits (red, black, yellow, blue and pink) transforming and merging to form a super battlesuit!

Go, go, powergamers? :p

Varath- Lord Impaler
04-02-2008, 03:36
I can imagine Warhounds armed with pairs of Vulcan mega bolters would be deployed to tau battlezones. This is devastating to all forms of Tau including vehicles, Infantry, battlesuits AND aircraft.

This required a new form of Tau weapon. To fight the Titan on its own terms.

The Tau designate the new form the XVZ, also known as the Komodo Battlesuit.

It is crewed by a single Warrior of the Fire caste who has been well trained, bred and 'enhanced'.
Despite being slightly smaller than a warhound the Komodo is armed with a pair of heavy railguns and a few smaller anti infantry weapons.

The main pride and joy of the Komodo, however, is its advances shield Generator systems. It is able to channel an incredibly powerful deflector shield that protects the Battlesuit from a significant amount of Enemy fire, allowing its armour to take the last energy of the hits.

I imagine a slim Battlesuit, very streamlined. About 8 inches tall and armed with a pair of Snub nosed Heavy Railguns on its arms (with cables running to its back)

It should have a number of Shield generators, on its shoulders and Knees mostly.

Make it look wiry and powerful with a strong Jump Jet on its back.

I hate tau, but that would look Sexcellent

Bregalad
04-02-2008, 09:39
For some reason, the image that comes to my head when someone mentions "Tau Titans" is that of 5 "special" crisis suits (red, black, yellow, blue and pink) transforming and merging to form a super battlesuit!

Go, go, powergamers? :p
Sounds like the new Tau Apocalypse datasheet to me ;)

imperial_communist
04-02-2008, 09:49
i suggest u make like a giant battle suit but you incluse skyray pods on the shoulders the feet could be hammerheads kind of thing be sure to make up a weird uber 4 shot rail gun with some weird rules go knock urself out dont forget to get high of your glue fumes when maknig it good luck hope i helped:D

Imperialis_Dominatus
04-02-2008, 13:04
I think the English language will never recover from the trauma it has just been caused. :cries:

Ironhand
04-02-2008, 13:35
I like the "bigger battlesuit" not as big as an imperial titan idea and I think that is what I am going to run with. Something highly mobile that can mount heavier firepower than an XV8.

For those that remember the old Epic/Titan Legion game, those were called 'Knights". Bell of Lost Souls has Datasheets (not very good ones IMHO) for some. So neither original nor particularly Tau-like.

If you really feel the need for something superheavy for the Tau - I'd suggest a bigger, more heavily-armed grav tank, a sort of super-Hammerhead with heavy railguns, although I really think the A-X-1-0 is more than sufficient to deal with any Titans, more in line with Tau tactical concepts, and readily available.

Fire1098
04-02-2008, 17:27
The answer is quite simple, really.

Tau technology is based on the understanding of scientific principles. Therefore, Tau know that it is physically impossible for a 100m-tall anthropomorphic warmachines to walk on 3m-wide feet without sinking into the ground. Therefore, Tau cannot use Titans.

Imperial technology is based on religious belief in psychic space magic. Therefore, they have no such qualms about blatantly violating natural law, and are allowed to think that superheavy tanks are viable in the 41st millennium, even though the Germans proved otherwise before the end of the 2nd millennium.

- H8

So basically, the humans field Titans because they believe in them? The Tau are too smart to know that it shouldn't be able to work. That's the argument? This is an imaginary game last time I checked.

Temprus
04-02-2008, 18:16
So basically, the humans field Titans because they believe in them? The Tau are too smart to know that it shouldn't be able to work. That's the argument? This is an imaginary game last time I checked.

It would explain why Jetbikes, Speeders and other grav tech works but not as well as it did when the Emperor was around. ;) Besides, that is the reason Ork technology works, pure belief (or so fluff tells us). :D GW stance on why there are no Tau "Titans" or equivalents is that they just don't fit the Tau's design or combat philosophies.

Fire1098
01-03-2008, 13:27
Magic giant war machines. That's good fun I suppose.

Hokiecow
01-03-2008, 14:06
Well, people might know that I am a bit touchy with armies contradicting official fluff. Here is why I think that Titans are okay with Tau and do NOT contradict current background.

1.) Tau are evolving fast, in technology and strategy/tactics. So no definite answers can be given on what is possible in technology and strategy/tactics.


Tau line up with modern warfighting. Air power dominates and if you can do it without risking lives then it's worth it, hence drones. I can't see why Tau would want to develop a titan just to combat titans. Tanks and aricraft equipped with weapons to take down a titan would be smarter. They aren't as large targets and are more maneuverable. But then again Tau are fantasy, so anything is possible, I personally don't think it lines up with Tau Tactics.

Bregalad
01-03-2008, 19:16
1.) After the Taros campaign, every Titan will be accompanied by strong anti-aircraft-units, making the one-trick-pony Tiger Shark-AX-1-0 obsolete. Even if not, some atmospheres are full of debris, making aircraft operations impossible.
2.) City fights are not uncommon. Lots of cover, short fire lanes. Not much room for super heavy tanks that are long and wide to carry the super rail guns. But enough height for Titans.
3.) Tau have the technology and experience with crisis suits, so adjusting that knowledge for bigger suits is quite easy.
4.) There are of course other possibilities, like large missiles led by pathfinders with markerlights, but Titans sound like a believable option in the 40k universe.

shaso_iceborn
01-03-2008, 19:22
gere's one I like


http://www.coolminiornot.com/pics/pics7/img4172a84c98c65.jpg it would not let me post a pic so here's the link

The Orange
01-03-2008, 21:43
So basically, the humans field Titans because they believe in them? The Tau are too smart to know that it shouldn't be able to work. That's the argument?

:p This reminds me of a story. My friend plays SoB, he was facing another friend playing Eldar. Thanks to those darn faith points and abilities he was able to take down a wrathlord in hth with his battle sisters :wtf:. When thinking about why a battle sister can do this and not a stronger genetically enhanced space marine his answer was simple, the sister simply say "We believe!" while hitting the WL ankles with their bolters :D.


1.) After the Taros campaign, every Titan will be accompanied by strong anti-aircraft-units, making the one-trick-pony Tiger Shark-AX-1-0 obsolete. Even if not, some atmospheres are full of debris, making aircraft operations impossible.
How is it a one trick pony? Railguns still have great if not superior range, not to mention flyer's can move faster, thus cover more ground then a titan as well as react faster then titans. Realistically I don't see how in any way a titan is superior to a flyer. Yes anti-air may provide some protection for a titan, but it does not mean a titan is completely protected. Thats a massive use of resources that will need to be expended to protect just a titan. That AA will need to be moved along with titan to protect it, instead of behind the front lines where AA usually is placed. Then if AA is so good, why can't the enemy use their AA guns against a titan? Finally Titans are still target-able from space, right?


2.) City fights are not uncommon. Lots of cover, short fire lanes. Not much room for super heavy tanks that are long and wide to carry the super rail guns. But enough height for Titans.
How is a titan any smaller then a super heavy-tank? Even scout titans should realistically have problems walking around a city. IMO, city-fight environments should favor the small and nible, ala troops and even XV-8's.


3.) Tau have the technology and experience with crisis suits, so adjusting that knowledge for bigger suits is quite easy.
Thats a big assumption, Tau doctrine is based primarily on mobile warfare and it's going to be hard making a titan as mobile as something like a manta. Tau battlesuits are simply quick moving special weapons platforms. Just because they have XV-8 technology does not mean such technology can be upscaled to such an extent.

Simply put I don't think the Tau can make Imperial class titans as fast and as agile as Eldar titan. Or TBH I don't think the Tau can come close to Eldar equivalents. Tau rely on speed like Eldar, but their not as fast as Eldar are. IMO, their slower then eldar therefore rely on heavier armor to make up for it. Thus if Tau did make titans it would be between imperial grade and eldar grade titans.

But honestly I've got nothing against Tau titans. IMO their can be situations were yes, Tau will have to resort to titans-like technology. IIRC manta's became a problem in the Taros campaign because the Tau did not want to risk there main means of transport just to counter titans. I do see it as realistic if the Tau developed a bigger (but not titan big) battlesuit based off the broadside just to get a quasi mobile broadside suit (able to run, but no jet pack). A small (smaller then a HH maybe) mobile-railgun platform IMO would be exactly what the Tau would develop to counter titans. The smaller size would make it much easier to develop as opposed to full scale titan, a platform which would at least take longer for Tau to properly research and test, and it could be seen as Tau taking baby steps into the research of larger battlesuit technology.

Bregalad
01-03-2008, 23:04
Main argument for Tau Titans is that "counting as" Eldar titans, they work on in Apocalypse games and are cool stuff against all those thousands Imperial gimmicks (Baneblade variants, Titans etc) that are fielded in almost all Apocalypse games. Flyers are too vulnerable there. So in a universe (or game) where Imperial Titans rule the battlefields, Tau Titans also work.

BTW, a Titan has a smaller FOOTPRINT than a superheavy tank, while volume may be the same. So between skyscrapers, it might walk where Baneblades wouldn't fit.
And a Hammerhead has a regular railgun, while Tiger Shark and Manta have the bigger heavy railgun. Building a smaller tank with a bigger gun is not an easy task.
ANd the Gundam Mobile Suits in their universe ARE as mobile as the Eldar Titan.

The Orange
01-03-2008, 23:44
BTW, a Titan has a smaller FOOTPRINT than a superheavy tank
Foot print doesn't matter if a titans shoulders/hips are too wide to fit between buildings, or through streets.


Building a smaller tank with a bigger gun is not an easy task.
Neither is a titan :eyebrows:.


And the Gundam Mobile Suits in their universe ARE as mobile as the Eldar Titan.
I see that as a hard comparison to make, but okay. Still in the 40k universe it's the Eldar that can make the fastest large scale war-machines, no one else. Even in 40k Tau skimmer tanks aren't truly as fast as Eldar skimmer tanks. And the superiority of Eldar flyers (the only other example I can call off the top of my head atm) is emphasized quite heavily in the Apocalypse data sheet of their plane (forgot the name).

Hokiecow
02-03-2008, 00:58
So they build a bigger tank to hold the bigger gun.

Besides, air always rains supreme, even if you have good AA.