PDA

View Full Version : Dark Emissary in a Daemonic Legion (Storm of Chaos) List ?



Fulgrim's-Chosen
01-02-2008, 12:11
Hi all.

Recently, I heard that the powerful (Lvl-4 Wizard) Dark Emissary model from the older Albion campaign can be taken in a Chaos Daemon list from the Storm of Chaos, though I'm not entirely sure of that ?

I read the online PDF on them from the US-GW site and the exact wording on what armies may use them is:

".......Chaos (all types, including armies with a daemonic general)......"


---------

Going off of this, it would SEEM that Daemonic Legion armies can use them ? True/False ?

---------

Also...how useful might they be, if they could be put into a DL list (non-Tzeentch, ie-in need of Magic most of the time !) ?

They take up a Rare AND a Hero choice.... so if they COULD be tossed into a list... the most you could get for Magic Levels might be something like:


Daemon Prince (Undivided)- Lvl 4 Wizard (Lord + Hero)

Dark Emissary- Lvl 4 Wizard (Hero + Rare)


- That alone would give you 10 PD, 6 Dispel Dice (not bad !)

- If you threw in a Tzeentch Herald (Lvl. 2-Wizard), that would up it to 12 PD, and 7 Dispel Dice (quite nice for a non-pure-Tzeentch Legion to muster !)

Milgram
01-02-2008, 12:17
SoC demon armies are illegal anyway ;)

Fulgrim's-Chosen
01-02-2008, 13:57
No their not. I always have to chuckle when people say this, for no real reason. They are (sometimes) not allowed at Tournaments - but that's based on a general "no SOC armies" - rule. However...MOST countries and Tournaments DO allow them. The recent Chicago GT, for instance, allowed them with no problems (only SOC armies that have NOT yet had a new Army Book released are generally prohibited everywhere - thus Slayer Army of Karak Kadrin is no longer Legal since the new Dwarf Book was put out after that list was released in SOC - - - but Daemonic Legion has NOT (yet) had a "new Book" released, which is one reason why it's still allowed in 75-80% of Tournaments, places).

lokigod
01-02-2008, 14:09
SoC demon armies are illegal anyway ;)

hmmm More disinformation from the masses.... here is a tip.. just cause some one says on the internet that a list is illegal that doesnt make it true. Also on a negative note if you dont know what your talking about dont respond to people questions.....

EvC
01-02-2008, 14:20
Oof, burn!

Storm of Chaos lists generally have no option to take DoW and so cannot take DoW. The Dark Emissary could be a special case, however, I'm not sure.

Braad
01-02-2008, 14:24
But GW says that you should not look at entries for DOW in the list themselves, but at what the DOW rules say. If those rules say "any army" this includes SOC armies.

Dominatrix
01-02-2008, 14:56
I read the online PDF on them from the US-GW site and the exact wording on what armies may use them is:
".......Chaos (all types, including armies with a daemonic general)......"
---------
Going off of this, it would SEEM that Daemonic Legion armies can use them ? True/False ?

The only problem I see here is that daemonic legion armies didn't exist at the time of the albion campaign. So the "chaos armies with a daemonic general" bit is refering to the army lists from the hordes of chaos book where you can have a daemon general. Daemonic legion lists on the other hand appeared for the SoC campaign and fluffwise they are supposed to be strictly daemons only lists.

But since there is no official decision about it I guess it could go either way.

Milgram
01-02-2008, 15:01
The only problem I see here is that daemonic legion armies didn't exist at the time of the albion campaign.

and in addition the statement from gw about missing DoW entries was made way after SoC - I think it was when the o&g book was released without Dow entry.

yes I know that the army is not 'illegal' but also the 6th ed o&g are not 'illegal'. where do you draw the line? considering the upcoming demon book, the discussion about SoC demons will stop. :)

Urgat
01-02-2008, 15:04
Oof, burn!

Storm of Chaos lists generally have no option to take DoW and so cannot take DoW. The Dark Emissary could be a special case, however, I'm not sure.

Mmh, yeah, it's kind of special indeed (it's really not a DoW character):
I don't really quote since I have the french rules, but basically, it's as follows: you can take one if both the players agree (so...), it does not cost anything to take one, and he does not take a character slot. He gives 256VP if slained. If you take a dark emissary, your opponent MUST have an oracle or whatever the name is in english (the nice guy opposed to the dark emissary), though.

EvC
01-02-2008, 17:13
But GW says that you should not look at entries for DOW in the list themselves, but at what the DOW rules say. If those rules say "any army" this includes SOC armies.

But GW define what armies can take Dogs of War either in the army lists themselves, or in the Dogs of War pdf. And Daemonic Legion is not granted the ability to take DoW by either of those lists. It's essentially the same as Bretonnians where it comes to DoW, so can Bretonnians take a Truthsayer?

Urgat
01-02-2008, 17:28
As I posted above, neither truthsayers (thanks for the english name) nor the dark emissary are DoW units, they're just special choices from the Dark Shadows supplement that came with a White Dwarf issue. They don't follow the DoW rules.

EvC
01-02-2008, 17:44
There are two ways to take them, one is as you describe, and irrelevent to the discussion, the other is as a rare and a hero choice, as the opening first describes.

Urgat
01-02-2008, 18:03
Woops, my bad, sorry about that.

EvC
01-02-2008, 23:05
No problem, your post was good, but tehre was just more to the situation ;)

Fulgrim's-Chosen
04-02-2008, 22:45
So what's the view of the masses though ? CAN you take them or not (in a SOC-Daemonic Legion army list) ? - T10 / Festus / DeathlessDraich ? - care to chime in with your sage opinion ? :cool:

lokigod
04-02-2008, 23:54
[QUOTE=yes I know that the army is not 'illegal' but also the 6th ed o&g are not 'illegal'. where do you draw the line? considering the upcoming demon book, the discussion about SoC demons will stop. :)[/QUOTE]

Well in the US GT 6th ed. O&G are illegal and DL are not.... so I assume I will draw the line right there. Now with the new list comming out soon the SOC list will be illegal but till then they are still allowed, and should not be treated like they are not!

Urgat
05-02-2008, 09:56
There are two ways to take them, one is as you describe, and irrelevent to the discussion, the other is as a rare and a hero choice, as the opening first describes.

Btw, this got me wondering: is that way I digressed on still legal or anything?

Fulgrim's-Chosen
05-02-2008, 14:17
I'm not really sure what you were saying there since it's clear in the online PDF for the Dark Emissary (available for free from GW site - just do an online search for "Dark Emissary" and you'll find it right away) .... says they ARE Dogs of War and they DO count as "Rare and a Hero" if they are selected.


It also says they can be taken in ANY Chaos Army, even one that has a Daemonic General (like a Storm of Chaos list does).

So can you take Dark Emissary's in a Storm of Chaos - Daemonic Legion Army, or not ?

- - -

It would be quite nice if you COULD, since you could boost the relatively weak Daemonic Legion Magic Power (Non-Tzeentch armies at least) and defense by including one.


. . . and while I'm at it...is there anything preventing you from taking TWO, in the same Army ? (like is there a general Dogs of War rule that says you can't take a given model/unit twice ?)


I shudder/drool at the prospect of having:

Daemon Prince - Lvl 4 Wizard (4 Power, 2 Dispel)- Lord Choice , Hero #1

Dark Emissary - Lvl 4 Wizard (4 Power, 2 Dispel) - Hero #2, Rare #1

Dark Emissary - Lvl 4 Wizard (4 Power, 2 Dispel) - Hero #3, Rare #2

- - -

That'd be 12 Power dice , plus 2 you get naturally = 14 PD !

You'd also have 8 Dispel Dice - which is quite good as well.


And the Dark Emissary spells are pretty powerful too (Fog of Death is crazy).



Now...if you are limited to just one even, they would still be a big boost to a D-Legion army since you could do:


Prince - Lord / Hero (Lvl 4 Wizard - Undivided)

Dark Emissary - Hero / Rare (Lvl 4 Wizard)

Daemonic Herald - Hero (Herald of Tzeentch - Lvl 2 Wizard)


Power Dice: 12 (10+2)

Dispel Dice: 7 (5+2)


Still quite good.


Normally the max you can get if you are not playing with Tzeench units in a Daemonic Legion list is 8 Power Dice and 6 Dispel Dice....and you can only get this by taking a Prince or Greater Daemon (Lvl 4) and an Exalted Daemon (Lvl 2), and that takes up all your character slots (so you can't take any Heralds, which are great currently thanks to their magic banners, BSB, etc.)

This would be a welcome addition, if you actually do it.

Hence my curiosity and question. . .

Grimtuff
05-02-2008, 20:48
The only problem I see here is that daemonic legion armies didn't exist at the time of the albion campaign. So the "chaos armies with a daemonic general" bit is refering to the army lists from the hordes of chaos book where you can have a daemon general. Daemonic legion lists on the other hand appeared for the SoC campaign and fluffwise they are supposed to be strictly daemons only lists.

But since there is no official decision about it I guess it could go either way.

HOC did not even exist at the time of the Albion campaign. Chaos players were still using the Ravening Hordes list back then....

lokigod
05-02-2008, 22:58
Even if you could get them they couldnt join a unit per daemonic rules, so there easy vp.

Fulgrim's-Chosen
06-02-2008, 10:31
Just screen them and use their powerful spells like Fog of Death that don't require Line of Sight....right ? That'd work ? They also have a 5+ Ward save so they aren't totally helpless against light amounts of shooting anyways.

The Red Scourge
07-02-2008, 06:25
The only problem I see here is that daemonic legion armies didn't exist at the time of the albion campaign. So the "chaos armies with a daemonic general" bit is refering to the army lists from the hordes of chaos book where you can have a daemon general. Daemonic legion lists on the other hand appeared for the SoC campaign and fluffwise they are supposed to be strictly daemons only lists.

But since there is no official decision about it I guess it could go either way.

Well.. Fluffwise did you then notice, that the Dark Emissary cast the same spells as Belakor..?

Lycannus
08-02-2008, 02:12
Thats because they are Be'Lekor's Preists, They were trying to make him Coporial again (Which they failed, but he coporialised later anyway).

I don't see why They wouldn't still serve him.

The Red Scourge
14-02-2008, 21:03
How about an army like this then?

1 Be'Lakor 650

2 Dark Emissaries 530

9 x 6 Horrors of Tzeentch

Total 1990 points

That's 14 Power Dies with which to cast Nightmare and Fog of Death, and 9 bound spells to drain those dispel dies – of which you have 8

Lord Zarkov
14-02-2008, 21:21
wouldn't 6 x 9 horrors be more appropiate?

Lijacote
16-02-2008, 15:03
6 horrors wouldn't draw out any dispel. And the minimum unit size is 10 last I saw?