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metro_gnome
17-04-2005, 14:33
so as the subject of the future of CDs has come up on this forum... i thought i might share my view on our future... i do realize that rules development is not at the forefront of this forum... but i look to you for adjustments to these rules based on balance...

this treatise is meant to complement the exisiting list... and suggest new units... that is to say... it is one part of the proposed codex... it forsees including the hellcannon and the current CD list... greenskins and all...

consider: Demonology is to Chaos Dwarf what Clan Skrye is to Skaven...

---------------------------------------------
What would a new idea be without a New Character:

Demonologist - 65 points

Hashut looked down at the world and He saw that the great storm was coming. And the Father of Darkness, looked down on his children and their industry in the Darklands. He knew of the evils to come, and he was cunning. Mortals and Daemons are both seduced by power. Then give it to them.

The process of Demonology, as practiced by the Dawii-Zharr, is the most deliberate and cruelist form of Slavery. Daemons are lured from the Chaotic plane using cunningly baited traps. The Daemon' s capture is unexpected and unpleasent for all. But the worst of points of their existence are yet to come as they are taken in irons by the Demonologists to the great forges within Zharr Naggrund. And there bound with the most cruel and evil arts to metallic weapons of war. And let there be no mistake, this process is quite horrible for the unfortunate captured Daemon. Their trouble is not at an end until the ordinace in which they have become the power source is delivered on the battle feild releasing the Daemon from its agony and from exisitence. Worse yet is the fate of the Daemons bound to cannons whose raw energy is used upon the field, they might see many battles before the agony of their captivity might be relieved.
The Demonolgists summoned by Hashut come from the engineering forge guilds nearly exclusively. As a result, these guilds are growing in stature in Chaos Dwarf soceity and have more than one ear amongst the highest councils. The guild concentrates on capturing daemons and tapping the raw energy contained within to power their war machines, and power to mighty city of Zharr-Naggrund. Though still rare in numbers the Demonologist can sometimes be encountered on the battle field, surveying an invented weapon and so often found amongst the crew of their war machines.

M 3
WS 4
BS 3
S 3
T 4
W 2
I 2
A 1
LD 9

A Demonologist counts as 2 Hero choices.

If a Demonologist is the armies general, Death Rockets and Blunderpus count as core choices and all slaves count as special choices. (note: Daemonic ordinace still counts as a special choice)

Equiptment: Hand weapon and heavy armor.

Options:
- May have a shield (+2pts).
- May be upgraded to a level 1 Sorceror (+ 35pts). If a Sorceror, he may use the Lore of Metal only and may take arcane items.
He may no longer wear armor.
- May choose a mix of magic items from the Common and Chaos Dwarf magic item list, with a maximum total value of 50 pts.
- May ride a Chaos Dwarf Juggernaut (+ 90 pts). This is as a Juggernaut of Khorne (see below).

Special Rules:

Artillery Master: Demonlogists are experts in the war machines they make. If a Demonolgist joins any war machine unit that machine may make two guesses when declaring the range they are firing at (one for the crew and one for the Demonologist). Measure the two points you hve guessed and the decide which one you want to use for the shot before rolling any dice. The Demonologist also counts as crew if started with a warmachine unit for the purposes of Daemonic Ordinance (see below).

Daemon Binding: Daemons bound by to war machines are untrustworthy and in the heat of battle may take matters into their own claws. Should a machine escape its crew, it will follow no ones lead except the Demonologist through whos will it was bound. At the start of the compulsory movement phase all rampaging bound daemons within 12" of the Demonologist may take a leadership test. If failed they rampage as normal. If passed, the player may control the bound deamon in the same manner as one would control a Spawn of Chaos. That is: nominate a direction and then roll 2D6. The daemon will move the value in that direction any unit it encounters will count as having been charged with all normal reactions taking place.

Deamon Feared: For some inexplicable reason daemons are hesitant in the presence of the Demonologist. They're limbs become heavy, and sometimes they feel the urge to flee. The deamon is expierencing Fear though it has no knowledge of what that means. The Demonologist causes Fear in all daemonic characters, models and mounts even if they are normally immune to pschycology and even if they cause Terror. This can cause an auto-break in combat resolution if the conditions are met, in which case the daemon unit is broken before normal daemon combat resolution and behaves as any broken unit would. The Demonologist and any unit he leads is immune to Daemoinc Fear and Terror caused by Daemons.

---------------------------------------------------
0-1 Blunderpus - 20 Points per model

Nurglings being numerous and easy to catch have found their way into the standard blunderbusses. These oozing dripping hand guns are handled by brave Chaos Dwarves and do not need to be reloaded. They spray the rank liquid stench of disease onto their enemies causing them to turn in fear.

M 3
WS 4
BS 3
S 3
T 4
W 1
I 2
A 1
LD 9

Unit Size: 0-1 units of Blunderbuss models may be upgraded to Blunderpus for +8 points per model (so each model costs an even 20 points).
This unit upgrade counts as a special choice, and the unit is no longer a core choice.

Firing the Blunderpus: Blunderpus fires in the same manner as a blunderbuss (see page 32 of the Ravening hordes) with the following exceptions. The Blunderpus fire a stream of corruption and use the Blunderbuss rules to hit and to damage (including rank bonus), but they also benefit from an additional -2 armor save due to the liquid nature of the weapon. Each unit, that is not immune to pschycology, and is even partially in the fire zone must immediatley pass a leadership test or flee directly away from the Blunderpus unit.

Firing into close combat: Because the weapon does not need to reload the Blunderpus unit may continue to fire into close combat. The entire unit must fire or use its hand weapons. If they elect to fire, the fire zone is created and models within it are affected as usual (including rank bonus).

Rampage: Blunderpus are easy to control as long as the chaos dwarf warrior is still alive. Should the unit be destroyed however, place a nurgling base in place of the unit (see page 37 of the hordes of Chaos book). If in close combat the base will continue to fight on, if the unit was destroyed by missile fire or survives its current combat the base will rampage in the normal way. In the compulsory movement phase, roll 2D6. If the number rolled is equal to or greater than the distance between the base and the nearest unit (friend or foe), the base will immediately charge into combat with that unit if possible. The charged unit may react as ususal - the number rolled is both base's maximum and failed charge range.

metro_gnome
17-04-2005, 14:35
Death Rocket - 80 points

M -
WS -
BS -
S -
T 7
W 3
I -
A -
LD -

Crew

M 3
WS 4
BS 3
S 3
T 4
W 1
I 2
A 1
LD 9

Unit Size: 1 war machine with 2 Chaos Dwarf Crew.

Equiptment: Hand weapon and heavy armor.

Special Rules:

Artillery: Treat as a stone thrower in the rule book. You may only guess up to 48" range.

Misfire: Should you roll a misfire with the death rocket roll on the table below.

1 - Boom! The rocket explodes as the machine is being loaded. The machine is destroyed and the crew are slain.
2-3 - Malfunction The fuse fizzles and the rocket fails to fire. It takes a complete turn to replace the rocketand prepare to fire, so not only can you not shoot this turn but you cannot shoot again next turn.
4-5 - May not Shoot A minor fault prevents the rocket from firing this turn, perhaps the fuse is not set properly. The rocket is unharmed and may shoot as normal next turn.
6 - Beserk The rocket goes out of control and lands 4D6"in the direction you have aimed it. Place a token here and roll D6:

on a 1,2,3 The rocket explodes . Place the template where the rocket lands and work out the damage as normal.
on a 4,5,6 The rocket strikes the ground spins like crazy before relaunching itself into the air.The rocket lurches forward a further 4D6" in a random direction (use scatter dice). Mark where the rocket lands and roll another D6 (1-3 it explodes, 4-6 it spins off randomly 4D6"). Continue rolling until the Rocket explodes.

Deamonic Ordinace

The lesser intelligent daemons are the easiest to capture and are thus to be had in the greatest supply. The effects that can be drawn from them are equally limited. These lesser daemons are often bound within rocket canisters in such a way as to destroy the daemon upon impact, thus releasing the raw chaotic power form within. Daemonic ordinace counts as a second special choice. One Daemonic Ordinace may be take for each crewman of the war machine. Note: a third rocket may be taken if a Demonologist is begins the game as part of a Death Rocket unit. If all of the Daemonic Ordinace is fired into combat then the Death Rocket reverts to normal. The effects that is produced varies based on which daemons are used for the binding. Daemons normally bound in this way include furies, plague mounts, flesh hounds, screamers, and steeds of Slaneesh. As bound Daemons they all share a common profile.

M -
WS 3
BS 0
S 4
T 3
W 3
I 4
A 3
LD 8

Unit Size: 1-2 (3)

Special Rules:

Mixed Unit: Daemonic Ordinace is treated as a war machine with the exceptions below. The unit has a 360 arc of sight. Two crewman form a unit with the Daemonic Ordinace. Daemonic Ordinace will line up with the crew in front of the machine in close combat.
When moving normally the unit uses the Chaos Dwarf's movement rate. When rampaging Daemonic Ordinace moves 2D6" (see below).

Unbreakable: See page 112 of the Warhammer rulebook.

Daemonic Aura & Daemonic Attacks: See page 29 of the Hordes of Chaos book.

Rampage: Daemonic Ordinace may not declare charges. However in the compulsory movement phase, roll 2D6. If the number rolled is equal to or greater than the distance between the Daemonic Ordinance and the nearest enemy unit, the Daemonic ordince will immediately charge into combat with that unit if possible. The charged unit may react as ususal - the number rolled is both Daemonic Ordinace's maximum and failed charge range. It may never pursue. Note: The crew does not charge with it.

Loss of Crew: If all the crew are lost or the Daemonic ordinace has charged into combat, the test for Rampaging must be checked on all units not just the enemy's - it may therefore charge friendly units. Furthermore, it will move the 2D6 result rolled towards the nearest unit even if it does not make contact with it. Note: the Daemonic Ordinace will not return to charge its intial unit in the way.

Firing Daemonic Ordinance: Daemonic ordinace has a range of 48" an fires in exactly the same manner as a stone thrower with the exceptions below.

Fury Rocket - 20 points: Because of its malign intellect and skill at flight the Scatter dice may be re-rolled.

Plague Rocket - 40 points: Once the point of impact and damage is worked out place the large template with the hole over the same point. Any unit (friend or foe) with a model even partially under the large template suffers the effects of Cloud of Flies (see page 49 of the Hordes of Chaos book) for the rest of the game.

Aura Rocket - 30 points: Once the point of impact and damage is worked out place the large template with the hole over the same point. Any unit (friend or foe) with a model even partially under the large template suffers the effects of Aura of Slaanesh (see page 49 of the Hordes of Chaos book) for the rest of the game.

Hound Rocket - 30 points: Once the point of impact and damage is worked out place the large template with the hole over the same point. Any unit (friend or foe) with a model even partially under the large template gains Magic Resistance (2) (see page 114 of the Warhammer rulebook) for the rest of the game. In addition, any spell cast from such a unit may be dispelled as though the target had Magic Resistance (2) .

Screamer Rocket- 50 points: A bound Screamer is so enraged that when it is launched it makes its Slashing Attack (see page 40 of the Hordes of Chaos book) on each model it passes over.

Unpredictable:
On a Misfire roll of Boom! place the large template with the hole over the center of the Deathrocket model. The Plague, the Aura, and the Hound Rockets will cause their effects to all units within the large template.
On a Misfire roll of Malfunction Daemonic Ordinance will not shoot and become useless as a rocket, though it may still Rampage.
On a Misfire roll of Beserk The Screamer Rocket will continue to make its slashing attack on each model it passes over until it explodes.

----------------------------------------
Chaos Dwarf Juggenaut - 70 points (Mount Choice)

Demonology is not the new science it appears to be. Much was learned from early experiments with Blood letters of Khorne. Remarkably, Khorne endorsed these excercises and remains the most tolerant of the Chaos powers to the efforts of the Chaos Dwarves. This is probably because he is so intolerant of weakness amongst his own servants. The Juggernauts were comissioned by the emissaries of Khorne and still are from time to time but the Dawii-Zharr retain the technology and sometimes great lords or Demonologists are seen to ride these great Juggernauts in battle themselves.
The Juggernauts are massive creatures that are part-Daemon and part-enchanted steel an sinew. They are mighty beasts of groaning iron and brass, standing taller than a man, rivetted and clad in sheets of metal, but with fire for blood and a beating Daemonic heart. After the Chaos Dwarf fashion these giant metallic mounts are sometimes forged in the shape of great bulls.

M 7
WS 5
BS 0
S 5
T 5
W 3
I 2
A 2
LD 8

Armored: Juggernauts are covered with armored plates over their iron-hard skin, and so make an armour save on a roll of 4+.

Daemonic: Juggernauts follow the Daemonic rules on page 29 of the Hordes of Chaos book, with the exception of instability tests.

Unbreakable: See page 112 of the Warhammer rulebook.

Rampage: The Juggernaut requires constant supervision and can therefore only ever be used as a mount by powerful Chaos Dwarves. It does not rampage unless the rider is slain if that happens the test for Rampaging must be checked on all units not just the enemy's - it may therefore charge friendly units. Furthermore, it will move the 2D6 result rolled towards the nearest unit even if it does not make contact with it.

metro_gnome
17-04-2005, 14:35
Flamer Cannon - 200 points (Rare Choice)

All expierments with Horrors of Tzeench have proved fruitless, as this type of daemon was far too unstable for binding. But work with the Flamer daemons has led to great sucess with the Flamer Cannon. The Flamer Cannon is a spitting, drooling, flaming monster of steel iron and corrupted flesh. The stench of fire and sulfur is only ovecame by the smell of the daemon buring itself from within. On the battlefield the flamer cannon serves the short range anti infantry role bringing its crew in deadly contact with the enemy. This war machine is often set to rampage by design and creates great areas of havoc in the battle.

M -
WS 4
BS 0
S 4
T 5
W 4
I 4
A 4
LD 8

Unit Size: 1 war machine with 3 Chaos Dwarf Crew.

Unit Strength: 4 +1 for each Chaos Dwarf Crewman.

Equiptment: Hand weapon and heavy armor.

Armor Save: 3+. The Three Chaos Dwarf crew has heavy armor.

Special Rules:

Mixed Unit: The Flamer Cannon is treated as a war machine with the exceptions below. The unit has a 360 arc of sight. Three crewman form a unit with the Flamer Cannon. The crew will line up on either side of the Flamer Cannon instead of in front of it in close combat. When moving normally the unit uses the Chaos Dwarf's movement rate. When rampaging the Flamer Cannon moves 2D6" (see below).

Unbreakable: See page 112 of the Warhammer rulebook.

Daemonic Aura & Daemonic Attacks: See page 29 of the Hordes of Chaos book.

Terror: The Flame Cannon emits an aura of palpable horror. It causes terror.

Rampage: The Flamer Cannon may not declare charges. However in the compulsory movement phase, roll 2D6. If the number rolled is equal to or greater than the distance between the Flamer Cannon and the nearest enemy unit, the Flamer Cannon will immediately charge into combat with that unit if possible. The charged unit may react as ususal - the number rolled is both Flamer Cannon's maximum and failed charge range. When the Flamer Cannon is rampaging or in combat it may only use Flaming Breath in the shooting phase. It may never pursue.

Loss of Crew: If all the crew are lost or the Flamer Cannon has charged into combat, the test for Rampaging must be checked on all units not just the enemy's - it may therefore charge friendly units. Furthermore, it will move the 2D6 result rolled towards the nearest unit even if it does not make contact with it.

Magic Flames: This is a bound spell, as described on page 153 of the Warhammer Rulebook. All power is generated by the cannon itself and no magic dice are used. The casting value is 6+. This is a magic missile with a range of 12" range and line of sight are worked out from models in the front rank it inflicts D6 S3 hits.

Firing the Flamer Cannon: The Flamer Cannons shoot in a similar way to a Flame Cannon (see page 15 of the Dwarf Codex) with the following exceptions. Because of its malign intellect the Scatter dice may be re-rolled each turn. Place the flame template with the narrow end over the point of impact and the wider end directly away from the cannon so that the flame continues in a straight line. Any model under the template are hit and models partially covered are hit on a 4+. Any model struck by the flame suffers a S6 hit and any model wounded takes D3 wounds. Now place the large 5" template with the point of impact on the circumfrence of the the template and the template directly away from the cannon so that the point of impact represents the closest part of the template to the cannon. All models (friend or foe) who are not immune to pschychology must immediatley pass a leadership test or flee directly away from the Flamer Cannon.

Flaming Breath: Instead of firing normally, the Flamer Cannon may elect to to spew fire directly from the cannon itself. Place the flame template with the narrow end over the cannons maw and the large end over the target. Determine which models are hit per a breath weapon these models take a Strength 6 hit. Any model even partially under he template must take a terror test.

Unpredictable: The Flamer Cannon is unpredictable and if a misfire is rolled roll on the Hellcannon Misfire table for effects. (see page 17 of the Strom of Chaos Book.)

----------------------------------------
0-1 Iron Golem - 250 points (Rare Choice)

The pain caused by binding is so exquisite that it often times rivals the pain caused by the Dark Prince. Therefore, bound daemonettes are often found to be most loyal servants of Chaos Dwarves, betrying their master and leading Slaanesh to despise the Dawii-Zharr. Exploiting this obvious and perverted weakness, Demonologists use all of the demonettes willing energy to drive the most powerful war machines of all, the Iron Golem. Iron Golems are great constructs of iron, brass, and steele that lumber across the battlefield bellowing huge gouts of smoke to squash the enemies of Hashut with heavy Iron Fists. Standing as tall as an Ogre and weighing more than several cannons these great giants of iron are nigh indestructable and strike fear in the hearts of all but the bravest of enemies.

M 6
WS 4
BS 0
S 6
T 7
W 6
I 1
A 4
LD 9

Unit Size: 1

Unit Strength: 6

Armor Save: 3+.

Special Rules:

Unbreakable: See page 112 of the Warhammer rulebook.

Large target: The Iron Golem counts as a large target.

Daemonic Aura & Daemonic Attacks: See page 29 of the Hordes of Chaos book.

Terror: The Iron Golem emits an aura of palpable horror. It causes terror.

Rampage: The Iron Gloem does not rampage like other daemonic warmachines. Instead roll D6 at the start of each turn (at the same time as you roll for animosity). On a roll of 2-5 the Iron Golem is ok and does what you want, on a roll of 1 however the Iron Golem must take a leadership test, this test may be made with the general's leadership value if he is within range. If passed the Iron Golem may be controlled in a similar manner to a spawn of chaos. (see page 27 of the Hordes of Chaos book) if it is failed the Iron Golem goes beserk and rampages as though it has lost its crew. In the compulsory movement phase, roll 3D6. If the number rolled is equal to or greater than the distance between the Iron Golem and the nearest unit (friend or foe), the Iron Golem will immediately charge into combat with that unit if possible. The charged unit may react as ususal - the number rolled is both Iron Golems maximum and failed charge range. It may never pursue.

Heavy Fists: Because of its massive heavy fists, a model struck and wounded by the Iron Golem take 2 wounds with no armor save.

metro_gnome
17-04-2005, 21:40
nobody have anything to say?

Xand0r
25-04-2005, 06:14
I really like the daemon angle you are taking. As an albiet-brief CD player myself in 5th Ed, I think you have done a good job here. The new Chaos Dwarves should be dark and industrial, like many have said.

I have read all the fluff I can on CD, and I have always liked them as an army. They have some really interesting fluff. If you remember, the CD fashioned the Black Orcs. So experimenting with Daemons just seems like the perfect step to take. Of course SoC started that, but I like how you are incorporating it into the very core of the fluff.

For slaves. They should have generic slave units. A mish-mash of orcs and gobos, and other slaves they have collected. Perhaps all wearing a common slave garb of some kind.

So all in all, I see them as Twisted, Metal Working, Slave-Driving, Experimenting Dwarves.

One last thing, not too many Bull refrences in your list. I really liked that aspect of their fluff.

Another last thing. The hats never bothered me, but I am glad they were not used on the SoC cannon thing. They need to lose the hats to be more mainstream.

metro_gnome
27-04-2005, 01:19
i try to keep away from the bull refrences with this list... i don't think we would use servants of our own god in such cruel ways... i forsee retaining bullcentaurs and much of the CD list... but i see demonology as another branch of the army... and hobbie driven salves being another aspect... with perhaps a stand alone army list for each...

check out:
http://www.chaosdwarf.com/phpbb2/index.php

for other Dawii-Zharr...

Xand0r
28-04-2005, 22:01
i try to keep away from the bull refrences with this list... i don't think we would use servants of our own god in such cruel ways... i forsee retaining bullcentaurs and much of the CD list... but i see demonology as another branch of the army... and hobbie driven salves being another aspect... with perhaps a stand alone army list for each...

check out:
http://www.chaosdwarf.com/phpbb2/index.php

for other Dawii-Zharr...

Cruel Ways? Pssht. We are bringing glory to our God! Taurus please! :)

I retain my position about bulls. ;)

KDP Morgoth
03-05-2005, 06:13
First off, very nice touch with the mix of Daemonology and machine craft.

Secondly, the WFRP Bestiary mentions Chaos Dwarfs using a Hell Cannon (it's from the perspective of one of their Sorcerers iirc) and it also gives a nice descreption of the Bull Centaurs (not much different from the regular one, but I thought it was pretty good) so you might be interested in checking it out.

Kensai X
07-05-2005, 09:55
Wow those ideas sound awesome especially the ones about the golem and the blunderpus. Hell I just got this cool idea of having a huge cannon with like a nurgling woodchipper on top and like a giant daemonic Helblaster...

metro_gnome
01-06-2005, 19:20
you're mocking me aren't you?

armos
09-06-2005, 14:40
really like the ideas metro - I've had a go at creating some (albeit totally unbalanced) army lists for Chaos Dwarfs myself inj the past and I like the idea of basing an army around war-machines.
I really like the idea of expanding the Deamonologist aspect of Chaos Dwarfs... this is an aspect which would make the Chaos dwarfs unique as an army in there own right and also set them aside from regular dwarfs (rather than simply being an evil version of another race ala Dark Elves).

One thing is i'd be loath not to include the Bull Taurus from the army - this is a fantastic image and I believe this model in itself was the reason many people were attracted to CD's in the first place. In Liber Chaotica Khorne there's a brief secton on Chaos Dwarfs that draws parallels between Bull Taurus' and Juggernaughts - One idea I had was to change the Bull Taurus into a kind of Juggernaught... rather than have CD characters riding standard Juggernaughts CDs could ride animated iron constructs in the shape of great bulls (i think they're described in the LC as living furnaces) - bigger and more powerful than the standard Juggernaught and more 'flamy' - molten metal for blood (similar to an Avatar) and able to breath fire (lose the wings obviously) - this would give CDs their own unique mount and also help reinforce Hashut as a deity in itself rather than simply a Khornate off-shoot.

Plus it would make a cool model IMO


Plus I too think Bull Centures cannot be forgone quite simply because they're cool - given the standard of sculpting nowadays I could imagine really awesome models which is reason enough to include them.



Having read the CD bacground again recently they repeatedly make the point that CD's aren't that interested in expanding their empire - but rather strengthening the terratories they already control. When they do venture out en-mass it is for the sole purpose of aquiring slaves... both to labour in factories and to be sacrificed to Hashut... this puts me in mind that a CD book could comprise two seperate army lists... a (defensive) Deamonologist army with planty of war-machines, bluderbusses, infantry, etc... and a (expeditionary) Slaver army comprising slavers, bull-centures and plenty of slaves obviously... just something to think about.


:)

metro_gnome
19-06-2005, 21:54
well yes.. this daemonology would be only one part of the list... the list would break down something like this...

Lords
-----
CD Lord
Sorcerer Lord
0-1 BC Lord

Mounts:
Lammasu (watered down - similar to Pegasus)
Great Taurus
Juggernaut (CD Lord only)

Heroes
------
CD Hero
Daemonologist
Sorcerer
Hobgobbo Hero

Mounts:
Lammasu (CD Hero and Sorc only)
Juggernaut (Daemonologist only)


Core
----
Warriors
BBs (0-1 Daemonic Blunderpus upgrade)
Hobgobbos
Wolfboyz
Slave Unit (either a swarm or an unruly mixed unit with hobbie slavers able to attack from rear ranks with whips)

Special
-------
0-1 Black Orcs
0-1 Bull Centaurs
Death Rocket (Daemonic upgrades)
Hobgoblin Bolt Thrower
Immortals (elite CD unit)
Rollers (steam driven chariot)
Sneaky Gitz

Rare
----
Earthshaker
Hellcannon
Iron Golem
DoW

removed the flamer cannon... to similar to the hellcannon...

now if a CD is your general u use this list as normal...
if a Daemonologist is your general... blunderpus and death rockets count as core... and slave and hobbie units count as special...
if a Hobgoblin is your general... hobbie units count as minimum core and CD units do not... and daemonic upgrades are unavailable...
if a BC Lord is your general... Bull Centaur units are un restricted and count as core...

note: that each of these possibilities only exist if you do not field a CD lord, CD Sorceror Lord or a CD hero... as each out leaderships the examples above...

for special characters i like the old ones... particuarly Gorduz... which could be a "slaver" lists only shot at a sneaky lord choice... something like this...

Gorduz BackStabber - 200 point (Lord choice)

Fluff according to WD presents. Augmented to include Raider entourage and specific magic items.

M:4 WS:6 BS:6 S:4 T:4 W:3 I:5 A:4 Ld:9

Equiptment:
Tar Armor - Black Leather Armor: 4+ armor save that is not modifed for strength
The Blades of Gash Kardak - Twin Curved Daggers: Poison attacks, +1A, reroll missed hits

Special Rules:

In Charge: Gorduz is the Hobgoblin High Cheiftan and must be the general of a "Slaver" army list.

Lucky: Gorduz is incredibly lucky. On his last wound He may make 4+ ward save.

Entourage: Gorduz travels with an elite unit of Sneaky Gits called Raiders. Adept and decending on unsuspecting villages in slave raiding parties, He and his raiders usually lie in wait on the battlefield in a scout position. Gorduz is a has the scout rule and may accompany a unit of skirmishers.

Raiders - 7 points
M:4 WS:3 BS:3 S:3 T:3 W:1 I:2 A:1 Ld:6

Unit size - 10+

Equiptment:
2 Hand weapons

Special Rules: Poisoned attacks. Skirmishers. Scouts. Units may never lap around Raiders. Raiders May Lap around any number of models against enemy units no matter whether they have won combat or not.

taer
02-08-2005, 08:20
I really hate the idea of Hobgob heroes in CD army....

metro_gnome
02-08-2005, 19:37
and none the less they are there...

but judging by Grudgebearer rumblings... you may just get your wish...
there appear to be no goblinoids in the new CDs... just generic slaves of every race...

i still havent read the book... its not released where i am... but these are the summaries i've heard...

Ok so without further pause lets have a look at the new Chaos Dwarfs.


Name: Chaos Dwarfs

Subtitled: Dawi Zharr, lost Dwarfs of Zharr Naggrund

Religion: Is still Hashut

Trait: Was the main hitting force in a Chaos army. As they appeared to be allies to Chaos, I would say Chaotic.

It appears that CDs, were the most effective part of forces allied to Crom.

Warriors are described as marching in phalanxes and being heavily armoured.

Colour Scheme: Black and Bronze armour

Standards: Streaming banners in red, with fell motifs of their bull god.

Now the really interesting part.

War machines.

Hellcannons, Earthshakers and Deathrockets are pulled forward by teams of slaves (all races). They are then shackled to the ground by Ogres who beat pitons in to the ground.

Now it is interesting to note, that the 3 are used in the same army, and they are ALL Deamon Engines. At one point a hellcannon breaks loose and bites in to its neighbour (an earthshaker) who opens it maw and screams and immediately trys to break its own shackles. This should give you an idea of the feel of the warmachines.

Earthshakers and Deathrockets do work in a similar fashion to what they do now though.

Next priests wearing scale coats and deamon faced iron masks come forward and sprinkle blood over the machines, and throw burning entrails in to the barrels of the cannons, which swell.

They then draw runes and consecrate in blood the deathrockets and earthshaker shells.

The machines then begin to awake, and where there was once inert metal, it is replaced by unnatural flesh, claws, tendrils and sprout faces with fangs. They buck and pull at their changes and an unholy screech feels the air.

The book goes on further so you can visualise the atmosphere these terrifying machines produce.

After the battle, the priests doused the magic and teams of slaves pulled them away again.

Lastly machine wise is the Kollossus. But I don't think or want this machine to appear in warhammer. The size of the machine I think negates its inclusion. It is made of Iron, and has teams of Dwarfs with fire throwers on platforms on its shoulders, a command/control room in its head and a cannon protruding from its mouth with more Dwarfs controling that. It is far too large and also seems to be on par with a small Orc gargrant to be included in warhammer. The head was shaped like a bull.

Lastly the elite warriors of Zharr Naggrund:

(dreaded) Immortals of the High Prophet of Hashut

Armour is painted completely black (I presume like the black armour and shields of the ancient persian immortals).

They wear heavy steel from head to toe. (I presume heavy masks again).

Beards are still in ringletts. Immortal beards are protected by steel sheaths, I guess similar to what Iron breakers are now.

Armour in parts is reinforced with marble and granite. (I have no idea how this works, or how it effects the colour scheme).

Weapons are large bladed axes, similar to the previous ones I guess.



There was no note of any goblinoids of any type. In fact Gav made the point of stating that the slaves were of ALL races, so it is looking like hobgobs are out too. Black Orcs have definitely been rebranded as Orc only I think, which to be fair is what they were originally. Black Orcs are GWs nod to the Uruk Hai.

Yes the Kollossus looks like it would be a warmaster piece only.

Being an ally to Crom is ok I think. How often does a rampaging Chaos Horde get as far down as our way (yes I know every GW campaign). But in warhammer terms every 500 years, so I can't see it being much of a problem.

Freak Ona Leash
02-08-2005, 19:39
New CDS? Book? Freak is confused :cries:

metro_gnome
02-08-2005, 19:42
not a new army book freak...
a new fluff book called the grudgebearer...
it should have been released in the UK 2 months ago...

ive edited in the summary above...

Freak Ona Leash
02-08-2005, 19:50
Ooo,sounds interesting. Now it has to be released in the US :D

metro_gnome
05-08-2005, 23:21
well the concept is that the daemons are bound by fire and magic to metal objects...
not loose daemons piled on a platform... seems like they might run away... or try to kill the crew...

but i suppose the idea is inventive... in a 4th ed goblin kinda way...

metro_gnome
06-08-2005, 13:41
well such a model set up would be in keeping with my rampaging daemonic ordinace idea... the cannon need not be daemon bound only the shells...

i'll take it under advisement...

but the plague cannon was removed from the current list...
currently individual nurglings are bound to individual BBs...

vampires are cool!
15-08-2006, 14:07
great! simply brilliant, i love what you've done here and i think its fantastic, GW should get you started on the CD project right now

UltimateNagash
15-08-2006, 17:17
I understand what you're trying to do, but I think it's better to keep all the army books seperate (so you don't need to buy two or more books to use one army).
Also, for ideas similar to yours (but done a while ago), look at my Dawi-Zharr site below (a feedback thread is on Rules Devolpment).