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terrornid
06-02-2008, 01:08
Hi,

I was wondewring if anyone would like to help me on where to start A IG army. Whats good / bad . What not to buy. What is the first thing to buy? I browsed the tactics but it was not helpful. So any advice is appreciated.

Resurrected
06-02-2008, 01:11
Well first of all you should start with the codex. If you already have this then you have to decide which range of guard you want to go with ( Cadians, Catachans etc)

If your going with Cadians, the battleforce and a box of shock troops is always a good place to start, and allows customisation to different forces at a later date ( mechanised etc).

Hope this is some help to you!

Captain Micha
06-02-2008, 01:12
Do not buy Ogryn. Buy Kaskrin, Kaskrin are awesome. If you like vehicles, get a hellhound or two, along with a couple russes.

Avoid Ratlings... you can do better with the special weapon squad in the hq.
Avoid tech priests... unless you are seriously trying to be fluffy and not competitive.
Avoid most of the advisors... except the Commissar.


The rest of the units and their viability is a thing of constant debate. Some for example -swear- by sentinels while others think they aren't worth the entry in the codex. Same with Rough Riders, conscripts and basilisks.

Also, really first first thing, the Codex.

Ps, don't expect to win with guard for quite a while, regardless of what type you go with, guard are quite abit overpriced in everything they field.

My first purchase was the Ig infantry company when Apocalypse was released along with a tamiya t72 tank (I think you can guess what I use it as)

jasdc1
06-02-2008, 01:12
Welcome to the club. My first purchases were a box of shocktroops, a Battleforce and a command squad boxset. Justabout have the guardsmen assembled, still out on a colorscheme to go with.

terrornid
06-02-2008, 01:17
I was thinking urban chaos for a color scheme. The cow looking pattern. I have the codex and appreciatte the what not to buy. Thanks men!

SepulchreKnight
06-02-2008, 01:43
I did the Cadian 85th in red and black.

Get a codex and maybe an army builder program

I started with 2 command groups with a few variours officers and 2 boxes of cadians to make 4 squads with vox and grenade launchers.

Quickly added 2 russ, basilisk and 2 chimeras and later 9 auto cannon teams and command groups.

Look into doctrines. They can heavily influence army.

Captain Micha
06-02-2008, 01:46
I did a blue, black, teal, turquoise and coastal blue scheme (think ice blue)

They are xeno fighters nids and well,
they came out looking like cops. Needless to say, I'm going to model one of my genestealers to be in cuffs being led away by a guardsmen.

I've already fielded them with the "Cops" theme song playing.

Hicks
06-02-2008, 01:57
Whatever regiment you choose, when starting follow these guidelines:

-Get lots of core troops
-Get lots of heavy weapons
-Get lots of troopers w/plasmaguns
-Get lots of leman russes

-Don't buy the Command boxed set (most figs in it aren't usefull, you want to maximize special weapons, so buy that instead).

Anything else in the codex is to avoid like the plague until you can field 1000pts of pure troops with 3 heavy support choices.

xibo
06-02-2008, 02:26
Duh? I could field 2.5k points of HQ and Troops only o.O"
The officer from the command squad box looks quite cool other then his haircut which just sucks imo ( i greenstuffed him a cap ) and the casualty is just priceless ( although it's also useless ).
If you need meltguns ask your (chaos) sailor friends ( or foes ) for spare bits as they get a meltgun in each tactical squad sprue iirc ( they also get plasguns but they usually use those themselves ).
If you're up to a catachan or shock troops (classic cadian) army also try to get hands on cadian's sprues for grenade launchers.

Dantès
06-02-2008, 02:34
Do not buy Ogryn. Buy Kaskrin, Kaskrin are awesome. If you like vehicles, get a hellhound or two, along with a couple russes.


Opinion. Ogryns can be useful, however its more difficult to use them than Stormtroopers (Kasrkin), who can also bust tanks well.



Avoid Ratlings... you can do better with the special weapon squad in the hq.
Avoid tech priests... unless you are seriously trying to be fluffy and not competitive.
Avoid most of the advisors... except the Commissar.

Ratlings are actually much better than the special weapons squad in HQ. Plus they get the +1 Cover save.



The rest of the units and their viability is a thing of constant debate. Some for example -swear- by sentinels while others think they aren't worth the entry in the codex. Same with Rough Riders, conscripts and basilisks.

I've used all the above units, and they're all great. It really depends how you want to play your army, and have them fit into your tactics.

However, rough riders are the best close combat unit Guard has, theyre amazing for hitting advancing squads trying to get into close combat with you.

For an easy start to a Guard Army, I recommend you getting the following for a good base:
Battleforce
(http://store.us.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.us?do=List_Models&code=301901&orignav=301304&ParentID=250372&GameNav=10)
Armored Fist Squad (http://store.us.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.us?do=List_Models&code=306025&orignav=301304&ParentID=253874&GameNav=10)

Heavy Weapons Team
(http://store.us.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.us?do=List_Models&code=301870&orignav=301304&ParentID=250373&GameNav=10)
2 Cadian Special Weapons Blisters
(http://store.us.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.us?do=List_Models&code=301862&orignav=301304&ParentID=250380&GameNav=10)
Cadian Shock Troops
(http://store.us.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.us?do=List_Models&code=301861&orignav=301304&ParentID=250135&GameNav=10)

The base of the army is a platoon made from the 2 squads from the battle force, one of the squads from the shock troopers box, and a command squad converted from the box of Shock Troopers. The second troops choice is the Armored fist squad.

Your hq will be converted from the remaining 5 troopers from the Cadian Shock Troopers box.

You've got 6 Heavy Weapons squads to put either in the line squads, or in a support squad in the platoon.

The Leman Russ will be your heavy support.

All the converting is very easy, and for your HQ commander all you'll have to do is give him a torso and head from the Leman Russ sprue to make him stand out.

The junior officers can just be painted to look more higher-ranking than the rest.

For an easy paint scheme that looks really good, I recommend black armor with codex grey fatigues, with black in the recesses and highlighted with fortress grey. With yellow squad markings, rank markings, etc.

grumpy old gamer
06-02-2008, 02:49
Read up on Napoleanoic up to First World War tatics because this is basically what the IG are designed to replicate.
Though don't try Column attacks as they lack any sort of CC ability.
In general remember your going to end up playing a static gun line with a variety of counter attack ie Ogryn, Rough Riders, Grenadiers etc.
Oh and learn to love tread, lots and lots of tread.

Deadmanwade
06-02-2008, 04:59
Dont buy kasrkin or stormtroopers. Buy extra cadians, customise their equipment here and there and use them as Veterans.
Why?
They can have 3 special weapons in place of 2
Thier sergeant is 1 point cheaper.
They infiltrate for free rather than paying 1 point a model (or deepstrike if you use that doctrine)
They can have a heavy weapon.
If you infiltrate with cameleoline they're cheaper and more survivable.
They dont cost a doctrine point (unless you want lots)
They can have the same armour at the same price
Hellguns are worthless if your opponent has saves of 4+ or better.
Its cheaper for a new army.

Loki73
06-02-2008, 05:17
Ps, don't expect to win with guard for quite a while, regardless of what type you go with, guard are quite abit overpriced in everything they field.

Sorry but thats not true, I have won my last 8 games in a row with my guard at various point levels. They can win, it takes effort and a little bit of risk. They dont come with a win button for sure. They are a tad over priced in points, I can agree on that. Esp the Ogryns which I use in Apoc.

Ok back OT:

The battle force is good. A box of Storm troopers is good as well. You will be tempted to over do it (possibly) with las cannon teams. Do not, maybe one team at the most. If I were starting i'd go with Missle launchers instead.

With the aformentioned box sets you could muster up an officer from the russ sprue, maybe another for the platoon command squad, maybe.

If you take the Grenadiers doctrine you could take the storm troopers as a troop choice. That would satisfy the force org for now.

The big thing is when modeling...plan ahead know what ya want before you build of coarse. If you like a particular model field it. As long as your having fun who cares right? After all we are pushing around little doods!
Right?

Good luck welcome to the IG!

Oh almost fprgot I will echo here that plasma and meltas are your best friend of you have the points!

Loki73
06-02-2008, 05:20
Geez forgot about the vets! Yes indeed.

LoneSniperSG
06-02-2008, 05:34
Do not buy Ogryn. Buy Kaskrin, Kaskrin are awesome. If you like vehicles, get a hellhound or two, along with a couple russes.

Avoid Ratlings... you can do better with the special weapon squad in the hq.
Avoid tech priests... unless you are seriously trying to be fluffy and not competitive.
Avoid most of the advisors... except the Commissar.


The rest of the units and their viability is a thing of constant debate. Some for example -swear- by sentinels while others think they aren't worth the entry in the codex. Same with Rough Riders, conscripts and basilisks.

Also, really first first thing, the Codex.

Ps, don't expect to win with guard for quite a while, regardless of what type you go with, guard are quite abit overpriced in everything they field.

My first purchase was the Ig infantry company when Apocalypse was released along with a tamiya t72 tank (I think you can guess what I use it as)

Dude. Are you serious? People debate mobile artillery? :o

Basilisks are worth it. One or two are a solid investment.

Now.. I think the units he takes should be entirely up to him. Ogryns are awesome in a brawl, although it can be kind of hard to get them to the enemy.

Hellhounds are useful for sure, as can be Sentinels. But we had a massive debate thread over that and I don't want to bother with the issue anymore.

Conscripts are good for soaking up enemy fire, since they are cheaper.

Wyatt
06-02-2008, 07:49
Though I didn't start with it personally, the battleforce is great for starting an army.

But I just got two boxes of shock troops, a blister of lieutenants, and a chimera, and that's er... it.

One box becomes two squads for an Infantry Platoon.
Half the other box becomes an Armoured Fist squad, with the Chimera.
Then use half the remaining for the command squad (with a lieutenant).
The other half becomes the Infantry Platoon's command squad.

This gave me a HQ and two troop choices.

imperial_communist
06-02-2008, 10:05
I had the same problem in september i decided to go forr the codex and check out the bits and rules i decided to get off to a good start so i baught a box o 20 shockers a command squad and a £50 battleforce there you have your 2 infantry hq heavy support and some support platforms which i use with my troops :D:D

Bunnahabhain
06-02-2008, 13:18
To buy.
Codex.
Battle-force( or two)
N boxes of shock troops
A few special weapon blisters
Blister of officers.
Two boxes Empire pistoleers

To build-
Command squads- there's an officer head on the tank sprue. Convert a standard bearer, and maybe some medics.

Assorted squads of infantry- build sergeants with lasguns

Assorted heavy weapons teams. From the three heavy sprues, you can quite easily build 3 lascannons on tripods, 3 missile launchers on shoulders, and 3 heavy bolters and autocannons sitting on rubble/sandbags/being carried, so leaving the bipods for the mortars if you want them, which you don't yet.

Rough riders.
The pistoleers are easy to convert into rough riders. By using lasguns for the sergeants, you should now have lots of chainsword arms, which are posed well to hold a lance..

To expand, add another battleforce, and more boxes of basic troops with plasma and melta. Build veterans as you go along, using bits and bobs.

Eulenspiegel
06-02-2008, 14:43
Oh my, and now everybody is forcing their opinion again ...

Terrornid, what do you like about the Imperial Guard? That should give you the first ideas what to get.

- Do you like the masses of lowly humans? Buy the troops you like, assuming you will go with the plastic Cadians (cheap, good sculpts) and buy one or two Cadian boxes, some heavy weapons boxes.
- Do you like tanks? Hellhounds are great, and one Leman Russ is never a bad investmend. Sentinels if you like them. Fill up with infantry.
- Do you like the more specialist stuff? Get a core of guard infantry platoons or two. Fill up with Ogryns (might not be the very best there is for countercharging, but they have their uses), Rough Riders (alas have bad models as of now, you might want to convert your own), Ratling Snipers ...
- An Elite army - buy Stormtrooper models, maybe a Chimera or three.
- A static shooting army: buy infantry, many Heavy Weapons, a Basilisk or two.
- An airbourne drop-troop army: buy a lot of infantry with many Special Weapons, some Sentinels

If you like a mixture of the above, sure, go ahead. Buy what you like, Guards work in a thousand different ways. A solid core backed up with tanks and one or two faster squads like an Armoured Fist squad and some Rough Riders, supported by infiltrating Veterans (thats how my army looks like at the moment) works fine. Different builds are possible.

Your army might not do 100% satisfactory, but if you buy the models you like (model-wise and rules-wise), you might rotate them out of active duty for a while and substitute them with something that performs better. Later you´ll get back to those models you dropped out and see if you can get them to work.

incarna
06-02-2008, 16:00
I think the Imperial Guard codex is one of the most flexible codex in the game. I can’t wait to begin work on a second IG army. The first question you must ask yourself;

How do you want your army to function?

The IG can make an awesome static firepower-based army with huge swathes of troops or tanks pouring out wicked devastation.

They can also make a dynamic mid-range firepower-based army when loaded up with flamers, melta’s, plasma’s, grenade packs (large blast template).

They can make a hard-core mounted strike force army when loaded up with transports and sentinels.

They can EVEN make a wicked close combat army when you take Warrior weapons, Rough Riders, or Ogryns lead by a tricked out HQ or 2.

The IG army is one of the few armies that can offer you a taste of everything but I will suggest one thing. Do not make the mistake of thinking you are marines. IG cost less than half as much as a marine for a reason. You should have 2 to 3 times as many models on the table as a marine player. You will be pulling them off in droves.

Dengar
06-02-2008, 21:44
I second Eulenspiegel get the models you like for instance ive bought loads of tanks and air support by that i mean vulture and valkyries also think of a theme you dont have to but it makes it your army ive got a thing about the vietnam war so im mixing cadians and catachans sets together i think they work really well of course other people might not but then the fun is seeing all the different ways people have done their armys.

terrornid
06-02-2008, 23:27
Wow, thanks a lot. I started with Tyranids ( Surprise ). Then I tried Chaos ( yuck ). My current army is Eldar ( my first win with them last week ). IG has attracted me because of the models. I love tanks. I bought the Leman Russ Squadron at my lgs. I want to go with A urban chaos scheme for them. Again, thanks a lot.

Polonius
07-02-2008, 00:04
The general advice of buying what you like is probably not bad. Everyone has favorite and least liked units in the IG codex, but there are few solid rules:
1) Nearly every IG army needs about 4 infantry squads with heavy and special weapons, a command HQ, and 2 command sections to start with.
2) Leman Russ is a good tank, and using 2-3 in tournament armies is often easier for newer players than all infantry armies.
3) Every metal model (except plasma gunners) is an optional unit: some are great, some aren't, but none are 100% required.
4) As a general rule, plasma guns are top notch, while meltas, grenade launchers, and flamers are much more specialized.
5) Proxy, proxy, proxy.... at least until you know what you like
6) For heavy weapons, lascannons and heavy bolters are very common, while autocannons and missile launchers are used less often (they aren't worse, just only useful in certain areas). Mortars are very rare.

Drakon
07-02-2008, 00:19
i too just started an IG army and have
90 troops
10 shocktroops
2 russess
9 heavy weapon teams

What i want too get is
1 or 2 hellhounds
6 sentinals
50 more troops
1 basiks
3 chimeras

and off course a stormblade with a 10" blast marker :evilgrin:

Im going for a mass troops as thats what IG seem to rely on.

Hopefully having my first game with IG this weekend so hopefully itll go well but im playing against dark angels so im only expecting to learn :rolleyes:

simplemindedfish
10-02-2008, 10:06
When starting IG think back to your favourite war film. What was it about the soldiers in those that really captures your imagination? The simplicity of them, the hordes of them, or was it because they were elite, hard-hitting soldiers? Airborne or Armoured? Then theme your army like that.

Emperor's Avenger
10-02-2008, 13:39
Ratlings are good. Ogryns probably are, but at £10 each I'm not going to find out.

unclejimbo827
10-02-2008, 17:43
6) For heavy weapons, lascannons and heavy bolters are very common, while autocannons and missile launchers are used less often (they aren't worse, just only useful in certain areas). Mortars are very rare.

The rocket (not ____ile) launcher is my bread and butter. I take them in 3/4 of my infantry squads that get a heavy weapon, simply because of the versatility. Between the frag and krak rounds you have options for taking on hordes, meqs, tanks (well... most things with an armor value, anyway; I wouldn't waste the shooting on a LR or Falcon), and anything in between.

Mortars can be a nasty surprise if people aren't being careful... or if they're idiots. They might as well shoot silly string, but if you somehow manage to pin something with big nasty chainsaws once, you've made your points back. They're dirt cheap - 1 six strong squad with 3 mortars is only 80 points. Go ahead and take a squad if you have points to play with - they aren't a priority.

Also, take Rough Riders. Best unit in the codex, point for point.

jason_sation
10-02-2008, 17:44
Ratlings are good. Ogryns probably are, but at £10 each I'm not going to find out.

I play guard, and I wonder if some people would be more willing to give Ogryns a chance if there was a cheaper (plastic) alternative. I also think you'd see a lot more Rough Rider models being used if the models were different. (My vote goes for motorcycles).

simplemindedfish
10-02-2008, 17:48
If Ogryns were cheaper then there should be a place for them in every IG Army. For now we should just be content with using Warhammer Ogres with left over Grenade Launchers as an alternative.

Frep
10-02-2008, 18:12
Another way to make ogryns, more useful is if they were not subject to instant death from krak missles.

dannytheman444
10-02-2008, 18:53
Motorcycles are my wish for IG as well, rough riders are extremely useful but the models are crap. also get either lots of guardsmen or lots of tanks.

Pvt. Ratt
11-02-2008, 06:34
If I may give my opnion. adn question.
do you like a bit of a fluffed out army?
not amazingly stupid but you use certain types of units (minus the tech priest haha) for your regiment's back ground?
If so find the units you love the most (mine has legalized storm troopers and rough riders , and maybe i have 1 last doctrine point heavey weapon platoons) and start to base tactics and an army around them.
decide if you want an army you'll love that isnt all tourney upped (the people who love to tell you what to collect specifically are tourney heads in my opnion, its a game for fun not feckin football[U.S])
So collect your own that you like is my ADVICE
Above all else get to love your army. thats where I started with my IG (woo hoo! 300 pts!)

Brother-Captain De Angele
11-02-2008, 06:45
Like Micha said Ogyrns not a good idea depending on what army you do it could kinda be we gots da muscles or something. if you are doing cadians, you should buy, shock troops(take a conscript or armoured as well as infantry platoon), storm troopers, russes and commands squads, but if your doing catachans buy some catachans, captain, russes and probably ogryns.
my first guard purchase was 2 boxes of catachans, catachan captain, heavy flamer blisters, leman russ and 3 sentinels(birth day present) but this is when they first came out when catachans were $35 a box! i bought ogryns when the new apocolypse came out my army is basically we have muscles! basically lots of ogryns and i got a iron hand straken and you know not much in armour.(except a baneblade):D
De Angele.

Sergeant Uriel Ventris
18-02-2008, 05:17
I've heard so very many good things about Rough Riders but I'm reluctant to try and convert my own. The old ones look like crap in a hat and who knows when they're going to get around to redoing them. Also who told the modellers it was a good idea to do the Ogryns in metal? No one buys them because they're expensive, ugly, static, and even the rules aren't that fantastic! I'm hoping that when they finally get around to the Guard we'll see some plastic Strom Troopers, Ogryns, and maybe a command sprue with Commisars, officers, preachers and psychics, new Rough Riders and... I don't know, a plastic Titan? Give us something good, Games Workshop. I know a lot of veteran Guard players have been patient. Don't drop the ball on this one.

Dantès
18-02-2008, 05:27
Motorcycles are my wish for IG as well, rough riders are extremely useful but the models are crap. also get either lots of guardsmen or lots of tanks.

No no no I definitely don't want Rough Riders to be on Motorcycles. If GW releases models like this, it's a very safe bet they'll be changing the entry from Beast movement to Bike movement...and we can't have that!

If you really, really want a Rough Rider squad on bikes, just buy some Ork bikes and put Guard torsos onto the Ork legs. Easy.

JCOLL
18-02-2008, 05:31
Hi,

I was wondewring if anyone would like to help me on where to start A IG army. Whats good / bad . What not to buy. What is the first thing to buy? I browsed the tactics but it was not helpful. So any advice is appreciated.

I was in your shoes a while ago. I started by surfing around the GW site, coolminiornot and here looking for which army to go with. I had some Vostroyans sitting around so I bulked up on them. IMO they are the nicest IG sculpt that GW has done and really help lend a hand to the gothic overtones of Warhammer 40K that all other IG armies lack. They are a bit pricey now, but if you can get a squad or two DO IT. It'll be worth it. So yeah, the best place to start is go with what you like I.E. what looks cool. Starting out you tend to play with what looks cool over what will win the game because you haven't played the game. Some people swear by some units, others swear them off. I don't play to win - I play to have a good time. I like the look and aspect of Ogryn's so I take them. Are they worth it? No everytime, but it's still fun playing with them. The same goes for Rough Riders. It all depends on your taste. Hope this helps a bit.

JCOLL
18-02-2008, 05:32
I've heard so very many good things about Rough Riders but I'm reluctant to try and convert my own. The old ones look like crap in a hat and who knows when they're going to get around to redoing them. Also who told the modellers it was a good idea to do the Ogryns in metal? No one buys them because they're expensive, ugly, static, and even the rules aren't that fantastic! I'm hoping that when they finally get around to the Guard we'll see some plastic Strom Troopers, Ogryns, and maybe a command sprue with Commisars, officers, preachers and psychics, new Rough Riders and... I don't know, a plastic Titan? Give us something good, Games Workshop. I know a lot of veteran Guard players have been patient. Don't drop the ball on this one.

For Rough Riders, I used the Attilians and cut their funky hat's off and sculpted Vostroyan ones. I also added doo-dads to help bring them in line with the Vostroyan sculpt. It changes the entire look of them - even though they are still just dudes on horses.

JCOLL
18-02-2008, 05:37
Motorcycles are my wish for IG as well, rough riders are extremely useful but the models are crap. also get either lots of guardsmen or lots of tanks.

I so disagree. Don't the Rough Riders move through Terrain? The entire concept is that horses have a better time than wheels. I think it brings a lot of what IG in Warhammer are about: A lot of different styles of warfare from many different planets coming together in a hard hitting fighting force. Well, not hard hitting all the time, but whatever. I've seen some cool bikes done before, but it just doesn't seem to fit for me. But I play Vostroyans and horses seem to fit better than motorcycles. For Cadians and the like maybe, but not for me.

Vaktathi
18-02-2008, 06:31
I'd love motorcycles, maybe not as RR's but as a general IG unit (fast moving Demo charge maybe?) they'd fit in with lots of armies thematically (cadian, DKoK, Steel Legion, Tallarn, etc, it would all fit at least as well as horses) and finally give IG another actual fast unit.