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Admiral Koppenflak
06-02-2008, 00:53
I've spent the last 18 months or so assembling an Armoured Company. So, I'll try to approach this one objectively and simply put it on the table for a bit of discussion, rather than bitching and whining about it.

If I understand the current build of 5th edition correctly, then there is little point in taking sponson heavy bolters on Leman Russ tanks. This doesn't bother me too much, as when my tanks move, they'll probably be firing battlecannons anyway, thus denying any chance to fire bolters to begin with.

What's got me though is the rule that Vehicles will not be able to take objectives...

I realise the rules are still being playtested and as such nothing is concrete, but it seems to me that in their current form, it means my army was just shelved...?

Thoughts...?

cochise
06-02-2008, 01:40
Well, "only" 2 of the 3 new missions uses objectives. And another one only uses 2 objectives, one of them in your deployment zone. Just stand there with your more durable tanks shooting the hell out of the enemy (area terrain won´t block your shoots and gives your tanks a nice cover save) and lying ordnance blast (that now hit even partials) on the objectives and yo are ready to go. No need to claim objectives if you deny the enemy the possibility of claiming them. Your army will still work...but as it will move even less it will be boring as hell to play. But my feelings on all Guard armies is the same, they all seem boring to me...

Natura
06-02-2008, 01:42
In the Q&A with Jervis Johnson that's been posted over in Rumours, he said that AC would not be supported in future rules releases outside of Apocalypse. So in standard games at least, your force probably won't have a place for much longer.

However, anything goes in Apocalypse, so it's not like your army will be a complete wash-out.

Admiral Koppenflak
06-02-2008, 02:04
Well crap...

That's all I can really say. :(

SanguinaryDan
06-02-2008, 02:30
If you want to stick with the the Armored Company in 5th your going to have to switch over to the Imperial Armour version. At least then you can have infantry Troops to hold objectives.

I my opinion it's actually a better "game" list anyway. You get the ability to field all the armor you want but still take advantage of all the things that make the IG a cool army. Plus you don't have any of the incredibly stupid Skills/Drills that the WD list came up with.

Admiral Koppenflak
06-02-2008, 03:02
If you want to stick with the the Armored Company in 5th your going to have to switch over to the Imperial Armour version. At least then you can have infantry Troops to hold objectives.

I my opinion it's actually a better "game" list anyway. You get the ability to field all the armor you want but still take advantage of all the things that make the IG a cool army. Plus you don't have any of the incredibly stupid Skills/Drills that the WD list came up with.

I actually agree with you entirely. I love that list, but as it stands, its rare I have an opportunity to play that list because IA isn't allowed at many events here in Oz.

Still, you are correct. Between IA and games of Apocalypse, it should give me a few opportunites.

Varath- Lord Impaler
06-02-2008, 03:43
I actually agree with you entirely. I love that list, but as it stands, its rare I have an opportunity to play that list because IA isn't allowed at many events here in Oz.

Still, you are correct. Between IA and games of Apocalypse, it should give me a few opportunites.

Im sorry, but do you want everything at once?

You take vehicles, mass vehicles.

This means that yes, they cannot capture objectives.

But it also means that all blasts dont cause partials

It means ALL of your vehicles are harder to kill.

Its a tradeoff. You will be strong enough as it is, you shouldnt be able to capture objectives aswell, unless you take some infantry.

Vaktathi
06-02-2008, 03:53
Im sorry, but do you want everything at once?

You take vehicles, mass vehicles.

This means that yes, they cannot capture objectives.

But it also means that all blasts dont cause partials

It means ALL of your vehicles are harder to kill.

Its a tradeoff. You will be strong enough as it is, you shouldnt be able to capture objectives aswell, unless you take some infantry.

Vehicles will only really be more resilient to shooting attacks, they will be more vulnerable to CC if vehicles are hit on rear armor in CC, they won't be able to shoot as much with Defensive weapons being S4 (making sponsons useless for anything wanting to move) and then they won't be scoring either.

Stezerok
06-02-2008, 04:15
Vehicles will only really be more resilient to shooting attacks, they will be more vulnerable to CC if vehicles are hit on rear armor in CC, they won't be able to shoot as much with Defensive weapons being S4 (making sponsons useless for anything wanting to move) and then they won't be scoring either.

the CC/rear arc rumor has already been dismissed...

as for the OP. I feel sorry for you tbh. But at the same time I am incredibly impressed by your maturity, this thread has not yet turned into a flame/whine-fest, which is an impressive feat. luckily the book is not out yet, and the source that everyone seems to have is roughly 6 months old (so I'm told) meaning changes have yet to be made. There is still time left for GW to perfect their rules balancing, and I think you'll find a way to pull off your army (with slight tweaks to theme), in the new book. Just keep optimistic, and keep chill. You're a cool dude!

Good Hunting,
-Stezerok

Admiral Koppenflak
06-02-2008, 04:23
the CC/rear arc rumor has already been dismissed...

as for the OP. I feel sorry for you tbh. But at the same time I am incredibly impressed by your maturity, this thread has not yet turned into a flame/whine-fest, which is an impressive feat. luckily the book is not out yet, and the source that everyone seems to have is roughly 6 months old (so I'm told) meaning changes have yet to be made. There is still time left for GW to perfect their rules balancing, and I think you'll find a way to pull off your army (with slight tweaks to theme), in the new book. Just keep optimistic, and keep chill. You're a cool dude!

Good Hunting,
-Stezerok

Cheers, man.

I'm inclined to go with the IA route, because as mentioned... It does give me some flexible infantry options. And I've lost too many battles to tooled-up Blood Angels Honour Guard who deep striked on my six to want to go in to battle without *any* infantry. They probably wont be be in enough numbers to secure objectives, but a couple of Stormtrooper units should still be enough to make marines think twice about charging at my backside.

Anyway, thank you all for the thoughts. I'll just chill my heels for a while before I do anything too drastic. ;)

Lord Cook
06-02-2008, 15:28
I too am a little disappointed, but I feel that Armoured Company functions much better in Apocalypse in any case, and there it is still perfectly legal and above board. I understand that isn't much consolation, but you'd be surprised what you can achieve with the standard Guard codex. Three Heavy Support gives you a solid core of main battle tanks and/or heavy artillery. Fast Attack can be used on the excellent hellhound medium tank, as well as sentinels. Salamanders are also possible, but as they are FW I know you mentioned that may be a problem. The rest of your points go into your preferred infantry unit (probably grenadiers for cheapness) and some form of transport. If you can't use FW, that basically means chimeras.

I know it's not ideal, but you can get a very tank-heavy force with limited infantry support, and it seems to function reasonably well even in 1,500pt games. For a true Armoured Company, you really need at least a 2,500pt game IMO.

In any case, I'm sure you'll find a solution.

DoctorTom
06-02-2008, 22:02
Im sorry, but do you want everything at once?

You take vehicles, mass vehicles.

This means that yes, they cannot capture objectives.

But it also means that all blasts dont cause partials

It means ALL of your vehicles are harder to kill.

Its a tradeoff. You will be strong enough as it is, you shouldnt be able to capture objectives aswell, unless you take some infantry.

But you can't take infantry as troops with the standard AC list. An Armoured Fist squad won't count since they're fast attack. You're in effect saying "it's a tradeoff, having all that firepower vs. knowing that there is no way possible to win 2/3 of the games you play" That doesn't seem like good advice.

Best to either go with the IA list, or to use a Mechanised IG army. You should still be able to use the AC list in Apocalypse games.

Bunnahabhain
06-02-2008, 22:43
Troops are units bought for the troops slot on the FOC, yes? Nowhere does it state troops have to be infantry, does it?

So the tanks bought for the Troops FOC can take objectives, surely?

Lord Cook
07-02-2008, 01:39
IIRC it's only infantry taken as Troops that can capture objectives. Possibly. I stopped reading my copy of the 'rumours' when I realised I was getting too wound up about stuff that might not happen.

Bunnahabhain
07-02-2008, 15:40
I've not seen a PDF of it, and am relying on the summeries about on here.

I don't want to have put up with endless offers of 'free' porn and interesting drugs, for the low, low price of a whole load of spywear on your computer, which is what most of the bit torret sites seem to be. Not really worth it to see badly written, out of date rules....

Vaktathi
07-02-2008, 15:58
I've not seen a PDF of it, and am relying on the summeries about on here.

I don't want to have put up with endless offers of 'free' porn and interesting drugs, for the low, low price of a whole load of spywear on your computer, which is what most of the bit torret sites seem to be. Not really worth it see badly written, out of date rules....

I have no idea what torrents you frequent, I've never had that problem, and there are other places to get such things that aren't torrents and are relatively easy to obtain.

That said, the PDF did say only "infantry" in the "Troops" FOC slot were scoring units.

Shasolenzabi
07-02-2008, 20:39
[[[ Just double checked the pdf scoring units/vehicle rules, sorry, AC can't use the Leman Russ for scoring purposes at all, totally screwed, and yes, troops in chimeras for AC are either 1.) Elites, or 2.) Fast Attack, relegating them to Non-scoring,,,but the pdf is old and only the new rulebook will tell for sure.

DasAtomkind
07-02-2008, 22:23
I'm sorry to say that, but while spending months building a weird (and by the way very unbalanced) list as the AC is an admirable effort, you should not be surprised that it won't be supported anymore. Lost And The Damned are gone and I bet that Kroot Mercenaries are also just waiting for someone to pull the trigger for them. Too many lists, too many special rules, too much trouble balancing them.