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View Full Version : Playtesting Army Lists for 5th Edition... How will you change your list and why?



dethray
06-02-2008, 13:54
With the pre-released rules made available, surely some of you are thinking of playtesting these rules.

The main purpose of this exercise is for anyone, who intends to playtest these rules, share with us how your lists will change.

As a guideline, you could include as much information as you can without infringing on IP issues or forum guidelines, and also if possible kindly include the following:


The number of scoring units in your army
How much your army is worth in Kill Points (KP)
An explanation of why you made these changes..etc.


To start the ball rolling, here's my adjusted Tau Empire army list at 1500 points:

HQ:
Shas'o with Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Hardwired Multitracker and Blacksun filter, Stimulant Injectors

Elites:
6 Stealthsuits with Team Leader with Markerlight and Bonding Knife

2 XV8 Crisis suits armed with Plasma Rifles and Missile Pods. Team Leader with Hardwired Multitracker and Targeting Array and Hardwired Drone Controller and 2 Shield Drones

Troops:
8 Fire Warriors including Shas'ui with Bonding Knife
8 Fire Warriors including Shas'ui with Bonding Knife
8 Fire Warriors including Shas'ui with Bonding Knife
12 Kroot
12 Kroot

Heavy Support:
Hammerhead with Railgun, Smart Missile System, Sensor Spines, Multitracker, Disruption Pod, Target Lock

Hammerhead with Ion Cannon, 2 Burst Cannon, Multitracker, Disruption Pod, Target Lock

2 XV88 Broadsides with Advanced Stabilisation System. Team leader with Hardwired Target Lock and Hardwired Drone Controller with 2 Shield Drones.

Scoring Units: 5
Kill Points: 18

Summary/Explanation of Changes:

Jet Pack infantry being able to JSJ with heavy weapons gave me the chance to try out a Stealth team with markerlight...it can hit at long range without fear of retaliation
Having run 2 single XV8 Crisis "Monats" before, doing that in 5th edition gives away too much KP. Hence the new single team of 2.
Instead of using 2 units of 12 like I used to they are split into 3 teams of 8. All are given Bonding Knives to ensure they can regroup even below half strength, an important distinction for scoring units that can still hold objectives down to the last man.
With Skimmer Moving Fast being reduced to a 5+ cover save, the Hammerheads are given disruption pods so that they can get the save even without the risk of moving at crusing speed. As such decoy launchers are exchanged for sensor spines to make better use of cover. Decoys were once awesome coupled with glance only results but with the SMF change in 5th edition this is no longer necessary.


May make some edits to the analysis as it is a little rushed...

Now, lets see your take on your "future" list;)

RSIxidor
06-02-2008, 13:59
I was just curios since you're playing Tau about whether you've considered a few things . . .

Markers in Crisis suit teams - They count as 'Relentless' (I think that's it) where they can move and fire heavy weapons, Marker Drones will always be able to fire the Marklerlights because they count as moving in the same way as they're parent unit.

Skyrays - Markerlights count as defensive weapons. Seeker Missiles are not fired by the SR, they are fired by units with MLs. Its an interesting option now at least.

Nicoca
16-02-2008, 07:59
Hmmm....
If i understand the rules correctly, that only "TROOPS" choices from your codex (ie not elite infantry or fast attack infantry) count as scoring units then i will be expanding my sisters (sob) squads to 20 models and filling up my troops choices with as many of them as possible.

I really hope this isn't the case however and is just a misunderstanding or a misprint (begs that his huge unit of celestians can still hold the center of the board against allcomers and still count for something)

Apart from that my list wouldn't really change. I don't often rely on vehicles (or squadrons ) to capture objectives, compensating for this by taking transports.

Azzy
16-02-2008, 08:12
Hmmm....
If i understand the rules correctly, that only "TROOPS" choices from your codex (ie not elite infantry or fast attack infantry) count as scoring units then i will be expanding my sisters (sob) squads to 20 models and filling up my troops choices with as many of them as possible.

I really hope this isn't the case however and is just a misunderstanding or a misprint (begs that his huge unit of celestians can still hold the center of the board against allcomers and still count for something)

Apart from that my list wouldn't really change. I don't often rely on vehicles (or squadrons ) to capture objectives, compensating for this by taking transports.

Sorry, you'll need more sisters (good choice of army, BTW). According to the leaked PDF, it is indeed only Troop selections from your FOC that count as scoring.

Nicoca
16-02-2008, 08:32
Oh well (sighs out loud). That rule kind of makes picking armies a little bit harder then.

My sisters cost $10NZ more than a box of tactical marines and don't include nay different options for weapons.

This does mean that i will be taking more Stormbolters however because they're perfect for mowing down enemy "TROOPS" choices on the move.

It does mean that i only have 2 scoring units in my conflict army now. I'll have to change that, but points restrictions make that a bit hard. nevertheless, i am going to have to be very cunning with army building from now on.

Mad Larkin UK
16-02-2008, 10:47
what the hell are kill points??

Im going to be putting 2 tech priests into my imperial guard army since that on glancing russes cant be killed, just have weapons knocked off and stuff, so repair units are going to be useful

Dribble Joy
16-02-2008, 12:55
My army won't change too much. My only problem is my 10 strong, 60 point shoota boys mob that I only take to fill my FOC. Since MA nobs can't have cybork bodies without grotsnik, I can't take a Big Mek or a second WB to make my second MA nob unit troops or take a dread.

Since my experiences with CBs have been less than great (5+ is just... rubbish, a bit like the old armour plates, nice when it happens, but hardly reliable), I have been thinking about dumping the shootas, going with a Big Mek and taking a dread. 5th might make me think about this a bit more. Especially when the new wound allocation rules might make hidden PFs less common and rending won't hurst as much in CC.

Paulie Walnut
16-02-2008, 13:34
As it seems now, i will not be fieldin Support Tanks in my Eldar List anymore but probably some more Serpents. I think ill try a an Assault CC List with Scorps, Banshees and Harlequins transported in Serepnts who get support from Jetbikes and cheap Warwalker Squads as well as some Wraithlords and the Avatar.

Bob5000
16-02-2008, 20:50
While it is a bit of fun jawing about implications of V5 , I am going to wait till I get the 5th Ed BGB in my hands and maybe play a few games with the final full rules before making any decisions on changes .

==Me==
16-02-2008, 21:22
==My== list won't change all that much tbh.

I typically either run a mech DA list with a Master+Vets in a Rhino backed by 2 Rhino squads, 2 Razor combat squads, a Dread, a Pred, Devastators, and some Scouts, DW-heavy doublewing, or a mixed force.

Good amount of flexible Troops with a mix of shooting, assault, and mobility. Non-troops are sent to dislodge enemy objective holders, protect ==My== troops, and destroy enemy troops.

OverchargeThis!
16-02-2008, 22:40
For my BA, I'll run 4 tacticals in transport, a 10-man assault squad with fist (troop choice), dante, max out the DC, and take a chappy. Believe it or not, that's roughly 1900 points. Assault squads as troops help. Otherwise, I'd take veteran assault squads.

dvdhwk
17-02-2008, 06:27
My Current 1750 Chaos 4th Ed List (for comparison)

2x DP, wings, MoS, Lash
1x Greater Daemon

8x Noisemarines, SB's, Blastmaster, Champ (PW, Doom Siren, SB)
8x Noisemarines, SB's, Blastmaster, Champ (PW, Doom Siren, SB)

9x Chosen, IoCG, 3x Plasma, 1x Melta, AC w/PF
9x Chosen, IoCG, 3x Plasma, 1x Melta, AC w/PF
9x Chosen, IoCG, 3x Plasma, 1x Melta, AC w/PF

If I were using this list in 5th:
Scoring Units: 2
Kill Points: 26


5th 1750 Chaos

1x Chaos Lord, Daemon Weapon

7x Plague Marines, 2x Plasma, AC w/PF, Rhino w/XArmor
7x Plague Marines, 2x Plasma, AC w/PF, Rhino w/XArmor
8x CSM, IoCG, 1x Melta, Rhino w/XArmor (Lord rides here)
10x CSM, IoCG, 1x Melta, 1x Flamer, AC w/PF, Rhino w/XArmor
8x Noise Marines, 8x SB's

8x Chosen, IoCG, 2x Melta, 3x Plasma
8x Chosen, IoCG, 2x Melta, 3x Plasma

Scoring Units: 5
Kill Points: 13

1. I consider chosen units to be more expendable suicide squads. They don't warrant the extra points for an AC w/fist since I don't intend for them to be the mainstay of my army anymore. They will clear objectives, or serve as area denial.

2. I've gone from 2 scoring units to 5. I think CSM need 4-5 at 1750.

3. Plague marines are the ultimate scoring unit. They excel mid-close range and will hold well.

4. The noise marines lost their blastmaster and AC. With the new wound allocation rules its just too pricey to lose a 60 and 75 point model respectively. They will serve as mobile mini-HB's.

5. No Daemon princes. I don't like running only 1. 1 is too easy to deal with. I prefer to run 2, but can't seem to justify running 2 when I can better spend points on troops. This essentially nets me another CSM squad. I will probably toy with throwing in a GD because they are so cost effective, but I'm not crazy about getting rid of an AC in my scoring troop choices, and my chosen no longer have AC's. The lord will help beef out one of the scoring units and help its survivability.

6. Rhinos are no longer death traps they are in 4th. I will likely get out of any rhinos that survive after the first turn and run behind them as mobile cover.

Obviously I'm not melting the models I don't foresee using as much. And final decisions await the release of the final rules.

Icarus
17-02-2008, 07:50
Well, I'll probably end up using even more Guardians (Ulthwe ftw :D ) for objective grabbing, my Pathfinders will come out of retirement for the same reason. My Falcon will go on the shelf given that it will be overcosted and unable to fire on the move. I'll probably switch to using more fast infantry given the vehicle changes, Swooping Hawks will proably be a must - a fast easy way to take out those now-much-tougher tanks.

shabbadoo
17-02-2008, 12:22
I'm not sure why anybody would be making any army changes or even playtesting the leaked pdf rules when they have already been debunked as incomplete/inaccurate. Might as well do something more productive during the next four months(after which the REAL rules come out) instead of making any uneducated purchases/army changes.

dvdhwk
17-02-2008, 16:50
Who said they're making purchases? That would be silly. I already have all of the models. A lot of the changes being made are based on the broader concepts that will probably remain and have not been "debunked."

It's not like we'll be using these 5th ed lists in tournaments. And you can't say that any proposed changes to our competitive lists are uneducated, they're based on a document that we know will be changing to a certain degree.

Ultimately there's nothing really productive out of our hobby. It's leisure and enjoyment. Whose to say how we choose to use our time within the hobby?

Deathpepper
19-02-2008, 13:33
My Current 1500 marines DIY 4th Ed List
Reclusiarch w/bp, infiltrate
5 man command squad w/ ccw/bp, 2xflamer PF sarg
5 man termi squad 2x AC
10 man tac squad w/ ccw/bp, infiltrate, melta, PF sarg
10 man scout squad w/ ccw/bp, PF sarg
10 man scout squad w/ ccw/bp, PF sarg
Landspeeder -AC
Landspeeder -AC
6 man dev squad w/3x ML
6 man dev squad w/3x HB

Works pretty well, lots of different units keeps thing interesting. Pretty good in escalation, traits are a lot of fun. I usually play over 1500pts with more tac squads, but in 5th I'll probably stick to smaller games because I don't think I could efficiently spend more than 1500pts in just 1 HQ and 6 troops.

If I were using this list in 5th:
Scoring Units: 2
Kill Points: 11

5th 1500 Marines
Reclusiarch w/bp, infiltrate
Commander w/ infiltrate, combat shield, 2x lighting claws
both attached to
10 man command squad w/ ccw/bp, 2xflamer PF sarg
10 man tac squad w/ ccw/bp, infiltrate, melta, PF sarg
10 man tac squad w/ ccw/bp, infiltrate, melta, PF sarg
10 man tac squad w/ ccw/bp, infiltrate, melta, PF sarg
10 man tac squad w/ ccw/bp, infiltrate, melta, PF sarg
6 man tac squad w/ bolter, infiltrate, plasma, HB
6 man tac squad w/ bolter, infiltrate, plasma, HB
Scoring Units: 6
Kill Points: 9

1. Only troops are worth taking now. I can't think of any elite/HS/fast choice that is a better buy than 20 tac marines. Even if there was, it still wouldn't be a scoring unit. The meltas are primarily to destroy transports (worth a tasty 1 kill point if anyone's ballsy enough to use them, woo!).

2. This assumes traits stick around. Otherwise, I'll play even smaller games minus the infiltrate. Run makes footsloggers reasonably fast. I'll use infiltrate if possible, flank deployment looks interesting, but might be too risky to see much actual use (much like deep strike). The main benefit of infiltrate has always been deploying last anyway.

3. 180 orcs would be better, but I don't own any. Maybe swap to lots of bolter/plasma/HB squads instead if the orc lists get too common.

4. The new missions and scoring system are sooo much worse, I have trouble expressing what a step back they would be. They're so restrictive, I think most lists will be 6 troops and a really spendy HQ (might as well, it's worth so many kill points). I don't think I'd play these rules much, probably wind up using sensible houserules instead.

5. Where did victory points go? Tiebreakers? :wtf:

6. If these rules are printed, GW will go out of business. You only need to buy troops minis, and tactics are gone. My infantry walks up to your infantry, winner sits on objective.

Fingers crossed the developers already burned the missions section of that leaked ruleset and are reusing the current one (which isn't perfect, but very playable). Maybe this whole leaked pdf is a scare tactic by GW so we appreciate the actual, sensible 5th ed more?

dvdhwk
19-02-2008, 17:39
I'm no longer ballsy enough to use Rhinos. I hadn't realized that as of "now" dedicated transports are worth kill points. I will probably drop them for a second noise marine squad.

graveaccomplice
19-02-2008, 19:37
I'm not sure how I'm changing my nids yet. So far I already have 5 troop choices (hormies, guants w/ flesh borers, guants w/ devourers, and two units of stealers with feeder tendrils). Against vehicles I have three venom cannons and two biovores. It's not much, but co-ordinated fire between them might strip the more dangerous vehicles enough to kill it.

I might look into a winged Hive Tyrant now. With jump infantry now all getting deep strike, getting it behind a key unit with any of its weapons choices could be a critical moment in the game.

I might look into replacing my lictors for a fex until a tyranid FAQ comes out. As it stands, a player in fifth ed can force them to take dangerous terrain checks every time they come on the board. A cheesy means of reducing effectiveness, but cheesy folks are out there.


I don't think I'll be changing my eldar too much. With dedicated transports picking up other units and war walkers getting to run, I think I actually got more bonuses than set backs. I wanted a fast army; it just got faster.

A friend of mine is looking into adding ratling snipers to his list for the first time. Lower cost, a 2+ cover save if they voluntarily pin, and rending makes for some evil times. They'll do a number on any monsterous creature they can target.

Dribble Joy
22-02-2008, 19:49
1500 Orks.

HQ
Warboss (Ghazzy) - no change.
Big Mek - no change.

Elites
9 MA nobs - no change.

Troops
9 MA nobs - no change.
Deff Dread - no change.

Fast Attack
2 Buggies - no change.

Heavy Support
2 Wagons - no change[/b]

Kill points - 18
Scoring units - 2 (?)

Since it's a themed army, there won't be any more scoring units. Thankfully one of them is a buggar to kill.

Warsmith Strader
23-02-2008, 11:52
My current list- 4th edition
Chaos lord in terminator armour/daemon weapon

chaos terminators- 5 man with RAC
5 possessed
10 chosen with power weapon and 4 meltaguns

10 marines with power weapon and plasma gun and missile launcher.
10 berserkers with twin plasma pistols and power weapon(in rhino)
9 berserkers with twin plasma pistols and power fist.

Defiler

List additions for 5th edition
15 man marine squad
9 thousand sons
5 more terminators
Vindicator and some oblits(2x)

Paulie Walnut
23-02-2008, 12:50
I was able to test a Chaos Army from my Buddy and im pretty much happy with it, i'll get one... Packed with Icons and nasty Equip and very much evil Psychic Power. It worked very well for me and was about 2k:

-Slaanesh Sorcerer, Jump Pack
-10 Plague Marines, Rhino
-10 Berzerkers
-10 lesser Demons
-10 lesser Demons
-8 Raptors
-Land Raider
-Vindicator
-10 Havocs
-2 Chaos Cybots

FigureFour
24-02-2008, 00:52
I was just curios since you're playing Tau about whether you've considered a few things . . .

Markers in Crisis suit teams - They count as 'Relentless' (I think that's it) where they can move and fire heavy weapons, Marker Drones will always be able to fire the Marklerlights because they count as moving in the same way as they're parent unit.

Skyrays - Markerlights count as defensive weapons. Seeker Missiles are not fired by the SR, they are fired by units with MLs. Its an interesting option now at least.

Marker drones move at the same speed as their parent unit, but they DON'T gain any of the parent units special abilities. They can't move and fire.

I also don't know what you're trying to say about the Skyrays. Nothing has changed about them.

Draconian77
24-02-2008, 12:50
The only change for me will be replacing 144pts of rippers for 29 spinegaunts.

This is because I dont want to sell my MC, I dont want to use Stealers and so my only remaining option is to increase my gaunts from 60 to 89. Overall its a inor change and my list should be fine. Whats interesting to me is that now my opponents will probably fire at my Gaunts whereas in the past my MC's where the fire magnets.