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IRONFOE
08-02-2008, 19:20
1977

HEROES:
Thane (Great Weapon, Shield, RoResistance, RoStone, MRoChallenge) = 126
Thane (BSB, MRoGromril, RoResistence) = 140
Runesmith (Great Weapon, Shield, RoStone, 2x RoSpellbreaking) = 131

CORE:
20 Longbeards (Shields, MRoGrungni, Full Command) = 315
20 Warriors (Shields, Full Command) = 205
20 Warriors (Shields, Full Command) = 205
10 Thunderers (Shields) = 150
10 Thunderers (Shields) = 150

SPECIAL:
Bolt Thrower (Engineer, RoPenetrating) = 80
Bolt Thrower (Engineer, RoPenetrating, RoBurning) = 85
Cannon (Engineer, RoForging, RoReloading) = 150

RARE:
Organ Gun = 120
Organ Gun = 120

How could you improve this list if you're fighting the majority of High Elves (some Magic heavy, rest is Special'd out) and Wood Elves (one player has Tree Sing + Archers, other has mass Dryads).

Murdoch
08-02-2008, 19:42
Personally I think 2 Organ guns are a bit OTT and you are better off with a gyrocopter.

Given that you want a balanced army I would consider losing a unit of thunderers and giving one/both of the warrior units great weapons (you are always striking last anyway so why not) and shave one off of the each of your H2H infantry units to get an engineer for the cannon.

Cant help but think that your BSB is a bit wasted as well but I don't tend to use one in my dwarves unless I am taking a stroll.

Also against both of the armies you mentioned I would at least try to put anvil in (they really are that good) and will really help you out against skirmishers/cavalry

Shadowsinner
08-02-2008, 20:10
for the thane I always give him 2 runes of fury and a rune of cleaving with a rune of stone... having 5 S5 attacks and a 1+ armor works well enough

Instead of the BSB Id Throw in a Master engineer to guard one of the bolt throwers... this will also allow you to entrench a warmachine, preferably one of the organ guns...

you should give your runesmith a master rune of balance... its much more effective in preventing your opponents from casting at all.

for the longbeards just give them hand weapons and shields... while S6 attacks are nice, Id rather have the 3+ save in combat. My trick is always make your soldiers really hard to kill to tie up enemies for a few rounds... I actually use ironbreakers instead.

put engineers on all your machines... for cannon put the rune of forging and rune of reloading with a champ... it comes out to 150 points, so your math is wrong on what you listed ( a cannon with RoF is 125 not 135

for the bolt throwers give one the rune of penetrating and a rune of skewering... if you man the other thrower with a master engineer then you should be good to go on turn 1...

other than that the outline is good

IRONFOE
08-02-2008, 20:18
You don't take BSB? I figured a BSB holding Thane in a Longbeard's unit would give all my units around him better combat results.

I'm not 100% sold on the Thane configurations just yet. And as for the Ironbreakers over Longbeards, why would they be better? Longbeards could take MRoGrungni or MRoSlowness depending on who I'm facing, likewise the disruption factor offered by MRoChallenge is a little too good to pass up :)

Shadowsinner
08-02-2008, 20:38
if i ever take a BSB then ill use the master rune of stromni and that REALLY helps with combat res... the whole master rune of challenge and slowness combo is ok but can also be ineffective if youre facing a wood elf army due to the majority of immune to psyc units. Ironbreakers are just better just because they have the better armor save... while the immune to panic ability can help, if you carry a BSB then you basically have 2 chances to roll a 9 anyways so no biggie. you forget that Ironbreakers can carry a banner too ya know :)

IRONFOE
08-02-2008, 20:45
So I take it Ironbreakers are better overall if I'm not taking any Great Weapons on my Longbeards?

Wonder which one is better vs. High Elves? I'm thinking Ironbreakers over Longbeards for High Elves and vice versa vs. Wood Elves? It all depends on where I need the immune to Panic.

If I drop the BSB, what configuration should I take on my two Thanes?

Shadowsinner
08-02-2008, 21:13
well with a natural LD 9 I really wouldnt worry too much about panic. your biggest fear with wood elves will have to be wardancers and waywatchers, alongside with treemen and treekin... killing blow will most likely be your biggest threat which really isnt saying much. I wouldnt really bother with great weapons when facing elves simply because with S4 youre going to wound on a 3+... so you might as well keep the shield and boost your armor... Keep in mind things like eagles, treemen, and dragons are going to be fodder for your other war machines... so what id do is this...

thane, shield, rune of stone, 2 runes of fury, rune of cleaving (1+ save in combat and 5S5 attacks...

Thane Bsb with master rune of Stromni + rune of Battle (adds 3 to combat rez and +1 to any other unit within 12 of standard)

20 ironbreakers fulls command with master rune of grugni...

add all this together and you have a full unit of S4 T4 troops with a 2+ save alongside a 5 ward against shooting and an auto +4 to combat resolution before ranks wounds and size are even accounted for!

AFoolProofPlan
08-02-2008, 22:04
Looks more like a Gunline than a Balanced list to me

HEROES:
Thane (Great Weapon, Shield, RoResistance, RoStone, MRoChallenge) = 126
I would give him MroGromril instead. But everything else is great.

Thane (BSB, MRoGromril, RoResistence) = 140
Take a ME instead. You don't have enough CC units to benefit from re-rolling break tests.

Runesmith (Great Weapon, Shield, RoStone, 2x RoSpellbreaking) = 131
RoSpellbreaking or MRoBalance, That's just up to you.

CORE:
20 Longbeards (Shields, MRoGrungni, Full Command) = 315
Take out the champion unless you're going to put a character in. Smart opponent will just take the champ out just as easily as any other man in that unit. And that'll just cost you extra point, and you'll have lost an extra attack for nothing. MroGrungni is great though.

20 Warriors (Shields, Full Command) = 205
20 Warriors (Shields, Full Command) = 205
Same deal, no Champ unless you have a character with these guys

10 Thunderers (Shields) = 150
10 Thunderers (Shields) = 150

SPECIAL:
Bolt Thrower (Engineer, RoPenetrating) = 80
Should be 85 pts

Bolt Thrower (Engineer, RoPenetrating, RoBurning) = 85
For WE, definately RoBurning. But for HE, I'd take the +1 to hit instead

Cannon (Engineer, RoForging, RoReloading) = 150
Engineer AND RoReloading is overkill.
RoReloading isn't too useful either. Only time it would benefit you is when You lose 2 men, or misfire. Crewmens are hit on 5+ and even then they're still T4, like all dwarfs. And on top of that, RoForging will often prevent Misfire in the first place.

RARE:
Organ Gun = 120
Organ Gun = 120
I would also opt for a Gyrocopter. March blocks, so can get few more shots in.

That's essentially what I would do with the list.
Also, consider taking an Anvil. It'll help with the damned flyers, as well as magic defense.
Quarrellers are also good choice too. Since 4 of your shooty things only have 24 inch range, the extra 6 inches will help out wittling down weaker infantries before they get up close.

And Thane with RoStone, Shield, and a Runic weapon has 2+ save. Not one. You only get parry bonus with Mundane weapon

IRONFOE
09-02-2008, 06:26
2020

HEROES:
Thane (Shield, RoStone, RoCleaving, RoFury, RoFury) = 142
Thane (Great Weapon, Shield, MRoGromil, RoResistance, MRoChallenge) = 146
Runesmith (Shield, RoStone, 2x RoSpellbreaking) = 127

CORE:

20 Warriors (Shields, Full Command) = 205
20 Warriors (Shields, Full Command) = 205
20 Ironbreakers (MRoGrungni, Full Command) = 340
10 Thunderers (Shields) = 150
10 Thunderers (Shields) = 150

SPECIAL:
Bolt Thrower (Engineer, RoPenetrating) = 85
Bolt Thrower (Engineer, RoPenetrating, RoBurning) = 90
Cannon (Engineer, RoForging) = 140

RARE:
Organ Gun = 120
Organ Gun = 120

Above is the updated list. It's 20 points over.

Thane (attack happy) goes in one of the warrior units in front, the other Thane with the MRoChallenge goes in the Ironbreaker unit in the middle, and the Runesmith sits tight somewhere (not sure yet, any advice?).

With MRoGromil and RoResistence, the Thane with the challenging Rune can hold down a serious beating with his Ironbreaker unit. So he's geared with a Great Weapon giving him 3 S6 GW attacks with a 1+ rerollable armor save. The other Thane has 5 S5 attacks with a 1+ armor save with parry and 2+ vs. everything else. If my enemy has killing blow, I would take out one of his RoFury and add a RoPreservation in its place.

Here's a rough 5-second sketch of how things should look after deployment. The blue behind my army represents a hill for my War Machines and the arrows in front represent the direction facing my enemy.

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/6835/sketchuf7.jpg

IRONFOE
09-02-2008, 06:31
2018

HEROES:
Thane (Shield, RoStone, RoCleaving, RoFury, RoFury) = 142
Thane (Great Weapon, MRoGromil, RoResistance, MRoChallenge) = 144
Runesmith (Shield, RoStone, 2x RoSpellbreaking) = 127

CORE:

20 Warriors (Shields, Full Command) = 205
20 Warriors (Shields, Full Command) = 205
20 Ironbreakers (MRoGrungni, Full Command) = 340
10 Thunderers (Shields) = 150
10 Thunderers (Shields) = 150

SPECIAL:
Bolt Thrower (Engineer, RoPenetrating) = 85
Bolt Thrower (Engineer, RoPenetrating, RoBurning) = 90
Cannon (Engineer, RoForging) = 140

RARE:
Organ Gun = 120
Organ Gun = 120

Here's my revised list updated with some the suggestions noted above.

It's 18 points over, but that's because I buffed up my Thanes a little more for Dwarvey combat. One Thane has a 1+ rerollable armor save, 3 S6 Great Weapon attacks and a MRoChallenge to force units into combat with him. He'll be located in the Ironbreaker unit. The other Thane will be in one of the Warrior units with his 1+ CC save, 2+ normal, 5 S5 attacks. I have no idea where to put the Runesmith (anyone?).

The idea is to have the frontline being Warrior, Ironbreaker, Warrior.. Thunderers behind the meat shield and Organ guns on the side of that. War Machines behind that, ideally located on a hill.

If I was facing a lot of things with Killing Blow, I would drop a RoFury for RoPerservation.