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barbarella
30-09-2005, 20:30
do you have to have ogres 4 abreast in order to get a rank bonus?

Ganymede
30-09-2005, 20:41
Naturally, yes

Avian
01-10-2005, 14:16
4 or more.

The only units that can get a rank bonus with less than 4 models wide are bretonnian knights.

Griefbringer
02-10-2005, 20:32
And it is not the first time I see this question. Time for FAQ on this one?

Avian
03-10-2005, 12:14
There is really nothing anywhere that indicates that ogres (or anything else) should get a rank bonus with a formation less than 4 models wide, so I don't think an FAQ would be all that productive and may instead lead people to think that the question was a valid one in the first place.

Luke
03-10-2005, 13:37
its strange that 3 burly ogres are not as effective as a rank as 4 gobbos.....

are they telling me that 3 minotaurs cant push as hard as 4 skavenslaves?

T10
03-10-2005, 13:41
A unit of four Miontaurs with great weapons can easily deal 6-9 wounds on a unit of basic infantry. Against a basic block of 16 troops it will result in the defenders losing combat and auto-breaking due to Fear.

Still strange?

-T10

Luke
03-10-2005, 13:42
no, im talking about rank bonus.

peteratwar
03-10-2005, 14:14
As has been said Ogres will follow all normal rules unless otherwise stated.

Luke
03-10-2005, 14:25
i know, im trying to get across the realistic-ness (if there is such a word) of the situation.

ignore the rules for a second

in regards to rank bonus, they are basically saying, even though 3 ogres are massive huks of muscle and anger, they do not count as a rank. however, 4 night goblins does? i probably weigh as much as one and a half gobbos, so do they expect us to believe that 3 ogres cant support a unit as well as 4 gobbos? does anyone get what im trying to say?

Festus
03-10-2005, 14:37
Hi

The rules are there to make the game balanced and playable, not to be *realistic* (which is a big no-no in a FANTASY game).

BTW this is a rules-forum, here is a discussion about rules, not *realistic-ness* (whatever that might be).

Festus

T10
03-10-2005, 15:06
Yes, I get you.

Perhaps it would be realistic to allow larger models a +3 to rank bonus per additional rank. After all, they are generally three times as powerful - A3 , W3 being the norm.

However, the game is scaled with man-sized models in mind so that's just the way it is.

-T10

Luke
03-10-2005, 15:10
BTW this is a rules-forum, here is a discussion about rules, not *realistic-ness* (whatever that might be).

Festus


sorry lord, chuck us a couple of nails and i'll go crucify myself over there, save you the effort.

Festus
03-10-2005, 16:44
Hi

sorry lord, chuck us a couple of nails and i'll go crucify myself over there, save you the effort.
Easy there, mate, easy!

It was you who said

i know, im trying to get across the realistic-ness (if there is such a word) of the situation.

ignore the rules for a second
If you want to discuss background, tactics, or anything at all, you are very welcome to do so.
There are quite a few boards for exactly these purposes at this site.

But this is the *Fantasy Rules Forum*, got it? Here rules are discussed.
The rule on rank bonus is clear.
Why GW chose to make it that way is none of this board's business, this should go in either the *Fantasy General* or *Rules Development*.

Some people consider it bad netiquette to discuss irrelevant things at an improper place.

Back OT:
The only exception to the minimum numbers to gain a rank bonus still are the Bret knights in lance formation. That's about it.

Festus

Tarax
06-10-2005, 09:10
There was a rumour though, that Ogres would get a rank at just 3 models wide. That was before the book come out.

However, I was just as much surprised that they didn't get it.

I wouldn't mind if they did, as do Minotaurs for that matter. And I don't play Ogres or Beastmen.

Wintersdark
12-10-2005, 03:04
meh... I still firmly believe that getting ranks of ogres is a silly idea. Forget ranks, take lots of units. Paying so many points for a +1 cr that you'll likely lose to shooting anyways (leaving 2 or 3 models in the rear of the unit not contributing anything) is a bad idea, IMHO. I played a few Ogre armies with BoC before OK came out. Big ogre units look badass, but several small units are VASTLY more dangerous. They are very fast, break ranks, and generate lots of attacks.

Units of 3 are idea. They can afford to lose one model and still break ranks, generate lots of solid attacks, and are still quite maneuverable. Leadbelchers and the like work better in units of 2, where they can get around better and reduce the effects of really bad misfires.

While MSU vs Regular Ranked Units is debatable with normal armies and regular infantry, it's far more lopsided with ogres. 100 pts for +1 in CR is really not a good deal.

Outnumbering and autobreak? Multiple units can get multiple units into that fight and still get you equal US in combat. You can still do it, IF you want (so your not stuck with giant Ogre units in combat with things that won't autobreak)

Da GoBBo
12-10-2005, 21:16
i know, im trying to get across the realistic-ness (if there is such a word) of the situation.

ignore the rules for a second

in regards to rank bonus, they are basically saying, even though 3 ogres are massive huks of muscle and anger, they do not count as a rank. however, 4 night goblins does? i probably weigh as much as one and a half gobbos, so do they expect us to believe that 3 ogres cant support a unit as well as 4 gobbos? does anyone get what im trying to say?

First off all, 4 gobbo's being more able to push hard then 3 ogres is a misconception since you don't get a bonus for one rank.

But aqtually, yes, I do agree, and so does GW. Instead off altering a basic rule though, they invented another rule, the bull charge rule, which gives the ogres an edge when charging in greater numbers, and an extra advantage when charging with more then one rank. As you can see, the difference between en mere humansized critter and a half giant has been taken into account.

Harrisondaly
14-10-2005, 21:49
yea im with ya but thenmore people would complain chaos are harder than gobbos that aint fair so thats the way it is and thats the way its stayin