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Big Chief Slapahoe
11-02-2008, 21:50
I am a high elf player and am asking for help against a bretonian player. I will start by stating that he spams knights errant, trebuchets and peggies...
He is an intelligent player and seasoned.

My problem is whenever i take white lions, he simply ignores them and attacks other things. Last game my lions couldn't even get into combat, and i had two units... I was thinking if he will spam errants i will spam swordmasters, but that seems cheezy and not as fun.

I was thinking of taking eagles as trebuchet hunters, but they are easy for his 25 man skirmishing bowmen unit to take down. Also hit peggies would rip them apart, and they cost like 9 points more...:confused:

I mean he has a lot of experience with me, but im finding it hard to overcome his 2+ save, 6+/5+ ward save knights errant, when he has more of them than i have infantry, and he always double charges units so he does incredible damage, any help on this?

Also im not mad at him, he takes a well designed elf killer list, its just that its not really an all comers list, and are there any anti bret lists out there?:confused:

(BTW a not broken army is preffered for me.)

Malorian
11-02-2008, 22:10
Things to take:

-bolt throwers
-dragon princes
-dragons
-eagles
-mages (metal)

Keep him at bay with your faster knights, keep the pegasus at bay with the dragon. Then shoot and magic him to death.

Remember that if he flees a charge then he loses his ward.

Lucky24/7
11-02-2008, 22:11
say it with me ....4 bolt throwers, teclis taking law of gold, and then a banner of sourcery and then lots of white lions :D

Oh and then there are star dragons :D

could always go HE flying circus :D
2 drags and 4 egals :D

Crube
11-02-2008, 22:15
Personally, if youre facing Brets, then whatever army you take, avoid elite infantry. In my experience, they'll run rinigs around you.

I fight fire with fire. Go mobile and go ranged. Eagles, a Dragon or 2, RBTs...and your own cavalry - should make a mice Bret pate with a bit of luck...

Grubnutz
11-02-2008, 22:47
I have been a long time Brett. player and my friend is a long time HE player. What I've noticed with his army which is very effective and oh so annoying is the beloved "Nugget" move. Use your Great Eagles in front of his errant knights. Put them somewhere that after he charges the eagle. You can set him up with the counter charge. Revers are good for this too. Having them go after what you want him to charge not what he wants to charge. And you will leave his flanks wiiiide open! Or You can also throw them right in front and have them angled so that way u want him to kill the Eagle and pursue off to the side leaving himself open. The great Eagle is a dispel scroll for the movement phase. Just like everyone else said bolt throwers are good too. Another thing that is really hard to over come and will make him scared to get near is a double chariot side. Keep two chariots next to each other Sure they only move 9 put they charge 18. Its a good way to deny a side. Shadow warriors is another one of his strong units. Use them to get close and take out the trebuchets. Or use the Eagle hopefully this will give you some Ideas. Just remember with High Elves your movement phase is the most important part. You got limited numbers but have elite fighters. (blocks of spear men never hurt 21: 7x3 = SAUCY)

Goldenwolf
11-02-2008, 22:58
The thing I see wrong with what you do, and please I am not trying to be rude, is you lose the movement phase badly.

If he relies on speed and gets to plan every combat, you will lose. How do you combat that?

As stated previously, you be as fast or faster.

You can take some great magic and hurt him badly as well, if needed smash his trebuchets with some magic, but if you can kill 2-3 knights a turn with magic, then he will quickly panic on turn 3-4.

Elite infantry wil lose games to fast armies, so do not use them.

Your HE bolt throwers are some of the best in the game, use them wisely. If you can't get a good shot at the knights, shoot the peggies. Make every shot count. If you do this enough, he'll start to hide behind terrain and that let's you dictate the movement phase.

Your chariots cause impact hits, and can run straight at his archers. Ever seen 1 chariot wipe out a unit of archers? I have.

We obviously can not give you too much tactical advice, as each game will be different, but each time he sets up a charge, set up a counter charge. This may lead to him being frustrated and making mistakes.

What units do you have available?

Da Black Gobbo
11-02-2008, 23:24
Tons of white lions, phoenix guard, Hoeth swordmasters they all strike first and hard (excepting the phoenix guard that is higly resilent due to its 4+ save) some reavers to take flanks, 2 boltthrowers a dragon mage and win.

R Man
12-02-2008, 00:10
There are several things you can do to even the odds. First of all don't try to fight them like you would a regular battle. They'll just overrun you. The best tactics is baiting them and then smasing them with a counter charge. Bret knights are tough but if they are robbed of the charge they will struggle to kill heavier troops. SM's and WL are great knight killers but you want them in small flanking units and not big blocks or they will just be targets or avoided. Another thing to consider is high ground or low walls to help you win combat. Knights also cannot enter buildings so putting shooters in them is a good idea.
You can also use fast cavalry, skirmishers and eagles to lure knight units into forrests where they will become stuck for a few turns. And do not be eager to deploy to close to your opponent.

Magically there are 2 lores to consider: High and Metal. One of Bretonnia's greatest strenghts is armour. When that is lost the knights are just as frail as your elves. This is what metal is good for. Its also good for destroying lances. Next high magic can improve you bolt throwers power, make your units stubborn and protect them with a ward save.

The best magic item against Brets (In my opinion) is the Blade of Sea Gold. Give it to a lord and he should be able to do quite a bit of damage for a reasonable cost. Anything that can ignore armour saves is gold.

Your opponent has several units to watch out for. Pegasus Knights are deadly against elves in combat. But they are expensive and few in number and can be quite easily panicked if you focus fire with bolt throwers. Peasant Bowmen are nastly against elves and cheap but weak in combat. A mere 5 SH could munch them easily but getting to them is a problem. KE are strong and numerous (for Knights) but they are still only WS 3 and LD 7.

Double charges are almost impossible for non-stubborn units to resist but they will also involve your opponent using between 400-500 points of his army, more if character are involved. If you can set a trap up you could wipe out a quater or more of your opponents army in a single turn.

The key to wining is to take away the advantages of speed, impact and armour and use psychology to break up his attacks. Away from the General bret LD isn't all that flash.

Dragon Prince of Caledor
12-02-2008, 00:38
I own brets with he all the time... I would say no bolt throwers.. just peg prey... First thing is first... keep ur flanks hidden / under control. Assuming ur playing 2000pts take a l4 caster with seer staff and take that really mean spell.. give him folariaths robes.. GIve a unit of phoenix guard the banner of sorcery. Take phoenix guard, white lions, lion chariot, maybe dragon mage. With all the fear tests and terror tests he will be running in no time. You just have to hit the skirmishing bowmen with the dragon mage along with the flaming sword. They will get smoked. Then take eagles to his trebuchet. Bathe his army in fire. He just has to lose one for a panic test. Let alone the terror tests and the march blocks. Remember that you can flee as a charge response. Try to be about 14 inches from his heavy units. Bait him with something like spearmen. He declares charge.. U flee. U charge him! White lions are stubborn... if u really want to hold him take 20 with command and give the champion the gem of courage.. Stubborn and essentially cold blooded for a turn will ensure that they go no where. Korhil can make phoenix guard or something else stubborn on leadership 9. After his charge he has nothing. If his peg knights hit any unit in the high elf army in the front they will be feathers and hooves in seconds... Dont let him flank you and you will own them. I recommend uber fighting/magic. Against the annoyingness that is brets they will not die to shooting.. Take things that dont die, cause fear, and dont run i.e. lion chariot, korhil in phoenix guard. dragon mage, white lions, archmage and maybe some dragon princes to keep the run on him. I would not recommend swordmasters... personal experience tells me to only use them against noob armies like orcs. Good luck:)