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View Full Version : Wood Elves Vs. Bretonia: TIPS PLEASE!



Alex Under
12-02-2008, 01:00
Hello and thanks in advance for your help,

I'm playing a 1.000 point game vs. Bretonians with my Wood Elves. I've been painting them for a few months but still haven't played with them, so it is going to be my first battle with them

What should I do? I am pretty sure my opponent will take his 3 pegasus knights and at least 10 Peasents with bows, the rest of the army he will fill up with knights, as obvious.

I have the following miniatures to choose my army list from: loads of archers and scouts, 10 dryads, 10 war dancers, 3 hawk riders, 8 glade guard, treeman, spellsingers, branchwraiths and nobles. More than the exact army list, I would like to know any specific tactics I should bear in mind.

Cheers!

xragg
12-02-2008, 04:20
Brets can be tough, so much armor, and so few ways for WE to get around it. I found to best way to beat Brets is to disrupt their advance across the field. I have gotten very good at it with my skaven, havent really got to play Brets with my WE yet.

Basically, make it so that they cant hit you with everything at once, and if at all possible charge them to avoid those lances. 1000 points is really light and too much into characters and magic items will severely weaken you. I wrote a list that focuses on shotting as they come across, while using treesinging/skirmishers to disrupt a unified attack. I wouldnt expect Brets to have more then 1 dispel caddy, if any, for a 1k game. If so, they are really weakening their offense. So I would expect that 1 of the 2 treesingings should get off each turn, enough to make the woods an annoyance.

Set up your archers in a way that they are protect each other, and the dryads/wardancers/treeman accompanying each of them. (U shape, bait and trap) Glade riders would do a better job then the dryads/wardancers, but you can make the skirmishers work too. Basically set your free woods off center, leaving one side clear to go around, while the other side will only let 1 unit through at best.

Characters
Noble-Arcane Bodkins, great weapon, light armor
Branchwraith-Pageant of Shrikes, lvl 1 wizard

Core
Glade Guard x10
Glade Guard x10
Glade Guard x10
Dryads x8

Special
Wardancers x6

Rare
Treeman

Total=998

Lady Raviaries Silverkin
12-02-2008, 06:18
I am a Bret player, and I have played against Wood Elves a few times. I found their skirmishing units in the trees to be the most difficult to get a hold of (Since the trees interfered with charge, line of sight, etc...) use the terrain to your benefit.

I can't remember how I fared against Wood Elves to be honest... I /do/ remember somehow my peasant bowmen managing to fend off tree-men somehow... I think that and my soreress pecking apart another group fo skirmishers with rabens were my only shining point of the battle.

Good luck!

Malorian
12-02-2008, 12:06
Your biggest problem will be the peg knights, but the best thing to use against them is the hail of doom arrow. They will only get a 4+ save and 6+ ward.

Kam
12-02-2008, 13:37
(sorry for the length, theres just many different ideas, all which ive gone into detail about)

Well then... i havent seen this question for some time.

I have been playing warhammer for over 12 years, my main opponent has been my brother, I played ONLY brets for about 8 years and he played wood elves for the same amount of time. Recently ive seen tactics that could beat the brets but he doesnt. so trust me... as a bret player here are my fears....

First off i dont like being charged. I use an all knight army (as all bretonnian armies should be) i dont like polluting my army with mere peasants. so right off the bat, i hate being charged. This kills my lance formation's charge benefits and i dont get to use my lances, not to mention that will be the only chance i get to strike first against elves.

Second, I dont like seeing a swarm of dryad units. if i charge one unit of dryads and kill them all and run through like 3" and hit another unit of dryads... then that leaves my flank exposed and horribly vulnerable. Remember, one unit of dryads is expendable.... always go for the greater good. If you make him hit one unit of skirmishers and have another unit of skirmishers right behind then you have one unit right where you want it. Use dryads in groups of 8.

Third, Wardancers IIIIIRRITATE ME. Them and their fancy dances. Killing blow is your best friend against knights, especially since they have their barrage of attacks. Wardancers in my flank is depressing to see, because i know how much damage they can do.

Wood Elf Archers. Lots of them. Have one huge unit, like... 25 or so... then give them a standard and the banner that lets them stand and shoot no matter how close the enemy is. Remember when you stand and shoot (with ranged weapons of 20" or more) your enemy always counts as being in close range (this applies only to this specific situation). SO that would be roughly 25 shots of their +1 strength bows, never a fun thing to be shot with.

The treeman is nice to have, but honestly a treeman doesnt threaten me. Its there for staying power but its only effective if you have something to charge into the side to negate the lance's rank bonuses. I do not like fighting treekin, they have a high strength and toughness and more wounds then i care to go up against. Get at least 1 unit of 3 treekin in your army. for 65 pts each you cant go wrong.

ignor your opponents archers. 10 archers is 60 points.... and they're 6 points each for a reason. concentrate on the knights. remember all knights die the same, concentrate on grail knights first then whichever. it makes me sad when i lose even one grail knight to bowfire.

to be honest, as bretonnian i completely ignore warhawk riders. the points they take up could be better spent anywhere else.

a wood elf noble who is an alter kindred.... with the amber pendant who has a great wepaon always makes me sweat. any character who strikes first with a great weapon and has a charge range of 18" is to be feared.

a wardancer noble with the murder of spites is always mean. he gets +D6 poison attacks at S2, but remember, these are his attacks. it clearly says they are his attacks, and therefore benefit from any dance you might be using (like killing blow), and they also benefit from the wardancer weapons rule, so if you charge they will count as S3 on the charge.

wood elves are really restricted in anything less then 2000 points. wood elf lords can take some of the meanest combination of items int he warhammer world if you know what to exploit.

all in all, against bretonnians, get some treekin, 2 units of 6 is ideal, wood elves are more maneuverable then bretonnians, use it to your advantage. get more dryads, i use wood elves, too, i use at least 3 units of 8.

Final thought. To insure you get into the flank of at LEAST one bretonnian knight lance formation heres what to do. you have that huge archer unit i mentioned before, the one that can always stand and shoot no matter how close the enemy is. Take a battlestandard bearer and give him the banner where your unit is unbreakable for a turn. you should probably use at least 25, maybe 30 for this. doesnt have to be all in one line, you just want to have a few left over. when when the knights charge and kill a whole bunch.... it wont matter because the unit is unbreakable for the turn. they remain unbreakable even if the battlestandard dies because the ability affects the unit and its triggered at the beginning of the phase. then the knights will be stuck there. Treemen are excellent for flank attacks, negate ranks and will more then likely crush a few knights. Dryads are skirmishers and so cant break ranks, but their powerful attacks are always welcome in any situation (powerful for a 12 point troop that is). i told my brother that little trick and now he annihilates at least one unit of knights.... because no matter the army, you CANNOT ignor a unit of 25 or 30 archers that can always stand and shoot who have S4 in close range. it just draws them in to get stuck, flanked, and killed. not to mention having a battle standard bearer near a stubborn treeman is always just a good idea, plain and simple.

Alex Under
12-02-2008, 15:24
Wow, thanks for the replies. Some of your ideas are quite cool, I'll try them out tomorrow and let you know how thing went.

Cheers!

Krootman
12-02-2008, 15:28
As stated take a alter noble with the hail of doom arrow (this will make short work of the peg knights), take a branch wrath with pagent of strikes, take a few 10 man units of archers (2 prob would be fine) Take a unit of glade riders (which you will use to flee charges so dryads and wardancers can counter) and remember woods are ur friend. As the person above stated avoid the charge knights suck when they dont get the lance charge off so make him come to you and then hit his flanks. Finally dont take the treemen hes not as good vs brets as you would think espec in smaller games.

So remember deployment is key, make sure you know your distances so you can use ur archers and riders to flee charges then counter with your dryads, characters and wardancers. Hail of doom arrow will kill the peg knights and once the knights are dead the game is urs.

Try something like this

Heros:
Noble
-great weapon,light armor
-hail of doom arrow
-helm of the hunt
-alter kindred
156

Branchwrath
-pagent of strikes
-annoyence of nettings
165

Core
5 glade riders
-musican
129

9 dryads
108

10 glade guard
-musican
126

10 glade guard
-musican
126

Special
5 war dancers
90

5 war dancers
90

992

Chaos Mortal
12-02-2008, 15:54
Kam has left some great advice and there is alot there to read but just as an added note to him telling you that you have greater maneoverability also remember that a lance is very difficult to manoever and has big flanks, also a grail knight is just as easy to kill as a knight errant so shoot them if you can and have magical attacks so your forest spirits wont get ward saves against them, as a WE player i think that wardancers are a must and along with the alter noble combo that Kam has suggested i would consider a wardancer noble with the murder of spites.

Thanks, and good luck, Chaos Mortal

Gaftra
12-02-2008, 17:21
theres alot of really good advice in general in this thread but one thing i would suggest against brets that i use with my WE is either skirmishing glade guard or glade riders to flee from charges. best thing that can happen for a WE army is to have a unit of knights laying there waiting for a counter charge.

Also you are NEVER going to win static combat res contests so you kind of have to play the "run around your army until everyone hits one unit" game. dont be lured into epic heroic battles that look cool on the table, WE just dont win those.

Sir Lambard
12-02-2008, 21:15
i personally play brets and have fought along side of we

u must takes different plans depending on which knights ur opponent takes

if ur opponent takes Knights of the Realm, stop them w/ a cheap unit, then kill them after the 1st round
if ur opponent takes knights Errant, lure them out and ocntrol his charge, if you control the charge proceeding rounds of combat are yours

good luck :)

Your Mum Rang
13-02-2008, 11:39
2 things in your army can bypass their armour. Wardancers and Waywatchers.

A unit of 9 or so Waywatchers could work well. Marchblock Knights, circle them and keep firing.

NOTHING in your army bar a Treeman can stand up to a Lance charge. Eternal Guard and a BSB can but even that gets risky with the possible death of the BSB.

I'd suggest you avoid combat as much as possible. Glade Guard are okay for this but will get about 2 rounds of shooting before the Brets charge and then it's easy VP's for them. Consider 1 unit in a wood as when he charges you have a good chance of getting away. After that you want Glade Riders for speed and some Wild Riders with War Banner to flank. I'd suggest:

Spellsinger: Lvl 1 - Scroll - Deepwood Sphere @ 140pts
(Auto S5 hits in the woods are awesome. TELL your opponent this. USE that to your advantage and place your soft units in the wood whilst your faster elements cause him headaches)

12 Glade Guard @ 144pts
(Place them in a wood and fire away)
5 Glade Guard: Musician @ 129pts
5 Glade Guard: Musician @ 129pts
(Bait and flee to open up flanks for the Wild Riders)

5 Wild Riders: Musician - Standard - War Banner @ 173pts
(Have a good chance of Breaking Knights on the flank)
6 Wardancers @ 108pts
6 Wardancers @ 108pts
(Killing Blow Knights to death!)

Great Eagle @ 50pts
(Disposable bait)

Now, this army is based on keep-away and taking opportunistic charges. If you don't like it then ignore it but perhaps use it to remember that you can't win head to head.

Krootman
13-02-2008, 13:37
he only has a limited number of models to work with. Also a tremen will get eaten alive by a lance charge so I would stay away from that, tho everyone is right when they say glade riders, glade guard and scouts are your best bet to flee from charges so other units can counter.

Alex Under
13-02-2008, 19:16
Thanks for all your comments. I played today and... I won! Mainly the battle was won before the first round; I was really happy when I saw that he took no pegasus knights. 2 blocks of knights of the realm, one with the lord and the other one with the battle standard, one large infantry unit with a mage inside and 1 unit of grail knights.

I was lucky with the scenary deployed; the whole right side of the table was covered with forests and hills, I had one hill on the centre of my side and some rocks to my far left. He *******d up with his deployment; He put his two knight units on his right side's corner, a unit of KotR in the centre and the infantry with the mage near all the forests that covered the right side. I deployed my glade guard on top of my hill, explorers in the forest next to his infantry and the rest of my army (driads with branchwraith and the wardancers) to my right, so they had a highway of trees down to his side of the table, plus, the two nasty blocks of cavalry were far away and they were going to get march blocked with my alter who was placed within the free forest that I deployed in the centre.

Basically, I reached his infantry and mage with my wardancers and managed to flank charge with them. I won, he run away, I caught him and the whole unit and the mage was destroyed. The Glade guard and the noble HoD arrow killed 4 grail knights, the other 2 where killed by my branchwraith and the dryads (after 3 rounds of combat, bloody armour saves...).

His knights reached my Glade Guard on turn 4, I had shot down a couple, but even so, as logical, he run through them. In the end my only loses were a unit of 10 glade guard and a wound on my branchwraith thanks to a daemon smacking her face after a miscast...

As said, he lost his whole unit of KotR, the infantry and the mage. Thanks for your advice, the alter noble was really useful and so frustrating for him!

Thanks to all!

Chaos Mortal
14-02-2008, 10:35
well done =)

FatOlaf
14-02-2008, 11:17
Yep well done indeed, sounds like you had a lot of terrain go your way there, how did you deploy it, or was it pre-generated?

Alex Under
14-02-2008, 19:32
The terrain was generated, so I guess I was lucky with that. :) Thanx for the comments!