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CELS
14-02-2008, 13:47
Alright, citizens, I'm looking for some ab-humans! Specifically, I want to know about all the official ab-humans, but I'd also like to hear any suggestions for possible unofficial ab-humans. For those of you who aren't quite sure what an ab-human is in the fluff, an ab-human population is a human population that has developed a stable mutation, like blue hair. Thus, all the people in this population will have blue hair. This is different from mutants, who mutate unpredictably. In a mutant population, one child might have blue hair, the other red hair (the horror!) and a third child might have feather-tentacles instead of hair.

So I'm looking for the official ab-humans, like ratlings and ogryns, but I'm also interested in possible unofficial ab-humans. Does anyone have any good ideas? Preferably something that is based on scientific observations rather than Tolkien. For example, I guess it's not particularly likely that a human population would suddenly develop wings. But what about double-jointed legs, would that be possible?

Any help at all would be much appreciated, though I guess this request is a bit weird for many fans. And since it has nothing to do with C'tan or Space Marines, I'm not sure anyone will be interested :D

Spartan
14-02-2008, 14:02
Basicly you are talking about evolution which is a change in the inherited traits of a population from one generation to the next. This process causes populations of organisms to change over time. Inherited traits are the expression of genes that are passed on to offspring during reproduction. Mutations in genes can produce new or altered traits, resulting in the appearance of heritable differences between organisms. Such new traits also come from the transfer of genes between populations, as in migration, or between species.

Usually if a mutation has occured it is to benefit the Organism and therefor anything is possible if you have the right explanation. Take your blue hair maybe their was a blue bush which allowed them to hide perfectly in that bush and hide from predators therefor the would survie where as the red hair guys would get eaten.

As for exact ones in fluff sorry cant help there not come across any myself but as for ideas here are a few:
> Gills and/or webded feet and hands - Lots of water on a planet advantageous to have said traits.

> Fur Coat - Cold planet

> Bad site but great hearing - Live underground

> Skin colour - To match the planets main surface colour

> Thicker tougher skin - Volcanic world

Commander Dante
14-02-2008, 14:09
Spartan got some interesting ideas, Furry Men, and Mole Men, i would imagine are quite common...esspicialy the mole men....and you forgot Squats, though they were eaten by Nids but i imagine some are still around.

qUOTIFON
14-02-2008, 14:16
In the official Fluff there are the Nightsiders, abhumans who have adapted to low-light environments. Their skin is extremly pale and their eyes are completely black since their pupils are so large. This trend could be continued to create Abhumans adapted to a no-light environments who have no eyes and orientate themselves by hearing and other senses.

Another type of Abhumans could develop in low-gravity environments. Very long and thin, but with reduced muscle mass (since muscles aren't needed as much in low gravity). Sort of reversed Ogryns or Eldar-like Abhumans.

Also vestigalities (organs that lost their function in humans and are only retained in reduced form) could re-develop in Abhuman populations:
- Abhumans with tails (developed out of the Coccyx)
- Abhumans with fur
- Abhumans with a developed Cecum allowing them to eat grass and leaves
- Abhumans with webbed feet and hands as adaption to aquatic environments
- Abhumans with freely movable and bigger ears for enhanced hearing capabilities
- Abhumans with other sets of teeth adapted for only eating meet or only meating hard plant material (like grass)
- Abhumans with a nictitating membrane as adaption to protect the eye in harsh desert environments or while diving

Ikkaan
14-02-2008, 16:35
I think it was a short story in "Galaxy in Flames" where a shipwrecked guardsman survived on a planet where four-legged humans lived. My memory fails me what happened exactly, but i recall that the four-legged humans were rather strange but otherwise ok and it also involved fighting chaotic natives. Later the guardsman faked a commissarial report when he was picked up, making sure that nobody looked after the planets inhabitants (which would have resulted in a purge or worse).

Background was that the adeptus mechanicus altered the genes of the first colonists to help them with the high gravity. Must have been before the Horus Heresy then. I donīt know if that matches Cels description of abhuman, but they bred true, so i guess they are abhuman in a way.

Lockjaw
14-02-2008, 16:59
squats, ratlings, ogryns are the ones everyone knows about.
then there's the nightsiders already mentioned.
i think the 40k beastmen were supposed to be abhumans back in rouge trader
scaleys were like orgyns with alligator skin.
thats about the only official ones i can think of

Malforus
14-02-2008, 17:24
Abhumans with a nictitating membrane as adaption to protect the eye in harsh desert environments or while diving

I have always thought the catachan were some form of adhuman, but I think the nictitating membrane would be a very appropriate mutation for them. Remember the eye is one of the most exposed places to infection and damage, and the jungles full of nasty.

Plus it would add the reasons people don't like hanging out with catachan...other then the fact they are all bonkers by normal guardsman standards.

Commander Dante
14-02-2008, 18:10
o and we almost forgot Navigators, probably the most important Abhumans to the Imperium

stormblade
14-02-2008, 20:04
Would an addiction or resistance to a certain type of radiation due to the proximity of a certain type of star be an ab-human mutation?

Kandarin
14-02-2008, 20:20
Since the Navigators came up, do deliberately induced mutations count? I'm pretty sure that's what Navigators are, and if they count, other genetic-engineering should count too. I don't mean the "Fabius Bile" sort of engineering, but deliberate, informed, planned development of the sort that's probably hardly been done since the Dark/Golden Age.

On that note, how about working monotreme-like traits into humanity? The fluff on countless Imperial worlds goes on and on about how terrible and bloody things are in these places and how barely anyone lives past their (insert low number here) year. For worlds like that, it might actually make sense to lay 20 eggs that might survive instead of having a couple of babies that will almost certainly die. However, such a thing would never evolve naturally in the time frame we're dealing with.

How about some quaddies? I want to see some quaddies. :evilgrin:

stormblade
14-02-2008, 20:29
Since the Navigators came up, do deliberately induced mutations count? I'm pretty sure that's what Navigators are, and if they count, other genetic-engineering should count too. I don't mean the "Fabius Bile" sort of engineering, but deliberate, informed, planned development of the sort that's probably hardly been done since the Dark/Golden Age.


Like Afriel Strain?(or however you call it)

CELS
14-02-2008, 23:09
Basicly you are talking about evolution which is a change in the inherited traits of a population from one generation to the next. This process causes populations of organisms to change over time.
Mmm, that's just the problem though, and I wish I would have mentioned this in my first post. Evolution takes time and the whole "The people of planet X have six pairs of eyes because it is so dark" doesn't work on a scale of 10,000 years (Age of Imperium) or even 20,000 years (Age of Technology).

Thus, the mutation would very rarely be natural, in my opinion, if it's going to spread to an entire population and then stabilize.


I think it was a short story in "Galaxy in Flames" where a shipwrecked guardsman survived on a planet where four-legged humans lived. My memory fails me what happened exactly, but i recall that the four-legged humans were rather strange but otherwise ok and it also involved fighting chaotic natives. Later the guardsman faked a commissarial report when he was picked up, making sure that nobody looked after the planets inhabitants (which would have resulted in a purge or worse).
Ah damn, I forgot about that story. That's an excellent point, actually. Since natural selection would usually take too much time for a normal population to evolve and become abhumans, we have to look for other causes. The warp is an obvious solution, but also a very boring one. The handiwork of the Cult Mechanicus / Adeptus Mechanicus is a much more interesting solution, and while I've actually been thinking for a while that this is the origin of the Ogryns, I never thought to let it apply to many other abhumans. It wouldn't just be the Cult Mechanicus though, but experiments in the Age of Technology could easily have led to the appearance of abhumans. Awesome point. I think I have the answer I'm looking for.

Now I just need to think of what weird abhumans the Cult Mechanicus and the older high-tech civilizations from the Age of Technology might create...

Ikkaan
15-02-2008, 10:01
Theoretically, every abhuman subrace could be the result of admech manipulation. The four-legged humans had history records where servants of machine god did something to their ancestors, which was supposed to adapt them to the high gravity. Ogryns supposedly evolved because their homeworld are hell holes...but it wouldnīt rule out the possibility that they also got some starting boost.

Other possibilities would be rather constricted as even the most feverish dreams of an magos geneticus/biologis would seldomly deviate far from the human norm. In most cases they would retain the typical human traits, two arms, two legs, two eyes. Adaptions would only be required if environment calls for them. To name them: Athmosphere conditions (heavy modifications to the lungs or complete changes to enable the human to filter o2 from liquid sources), Natural lighting (skin coloration, natural shielding from weak radiation, additional membranes for the eyes), gravity (muscle and skeleton alterations), Weather (hair growth) and amount of water found (camel-o-humans).

Additional limbs would be nice, but donīt really fit the "keep the human look" line.

malika
15-02-2008, 13:14
For some reason I'm getting flashbacks to the Futars and Phibians from the Dune universe. Futars are basically the result of adding feline genes to humans and phibians are humans with added amphibious/fish genes.

The Futars were used to hunt down the Honored Matres (some powerful plundering female imperialist army) because they were fast and strong creatures. Quite crude and primitive though but programmed to be loyal to the so called "Handlers".

The Phibians were used to harvest some kind of stone (forgot the name) on the bottom of the sea of some waterplanet.

It's very possible that old empires or worlds from the Dark Age of Technology were trying to create their own kind of superhuman soldier. Some sort of feline type of ab-human could have been made for hunting down enemies. For some reason I can also imagine a more canine based ab-human. (oh oh oh werewolves???)

By the way, Beastmen were also considered ab-humans right?

RusVal
16-02-2008, 06:14
It's very possible that old empires or worlds from the Dark Age of Technology were trying to create their own kind of superhuman soldier. Some sort of feline type of ab-human could have been made for hunting down enemies. For some reason I can also imagine a more canine based ab-human. (oh oh oh werewolves???)

This thought had popped into me noggin' at one point or another. Sort of a Dr. Moreau situation on some planets with human/animal hybrids. I even know about a guy who modelled some catgirls as count-as ratlings (much to the chagrin of his Inq ally :rolleyes:).

Thing is, these themes are already covered by other races, like those Tallern (?) Dog-soldiers allied with the Tau (as well as some sort of catgirl race, as far as I heard), not to mention Wolfen of the Space Wolves Chapter are dead-bang werewolves. You could extend the Wolfen mutation to a regular population, though that might tick off the SW players out there.


By the way, Beastmen were also considered ab-humans right?

Yep.

malika
16-02-2008, 07:37
Thing is, these themes are already covered by other races, like those Tallern (?) Dog-soldiers allied with the Tau (as well as some sort of catgirl race, as far as I heard), not to mention Wolfen of the Space Wolves Chapter are dead-bang werewolves. You could extend the Wolfen mutation to a regular population, though that might tick off the SW players out there.
Talaran (sp?) dog soldiers are an alien race, no canine ab-human. There is no catgirl race out there. Wulfen from the Space Wolves might be considered mutants, but why would the Space Wolves be the only ones who have a canine styled mutation? It's typical wargame perspective in which each "race" has totally unique stuff others could neeeeeeeeeeever have. :rolleyes:

Messiah
16-02-2008, 12:10
Mmm, that's just the problem though, and I wish I would have mentioned this in my first post. Evolution takes time and the whole "The people of planet X have six pairs of eyes because it is so dark" doesn't work on a scale of 10,000 years (Age of Imperium) or even 20,000 years (Age of Technology).

Thus, the mutation would very rarely be natural, in my opinion, if it's going to spread to an entire population and then stabilize.

Actually, recent studies have shown that small amounts of mutation might happen very quick, and if a species is set upon by dangers that will benefit something that is already in a small part of that species genepool e.g. webbed hands and feet (e few people are born that way every year, doctors mostly cut the webbing off), that trait will come to dominate the species fairly quick.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5657338
http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Fast_evolution_observed_in_butterflies

CELS
16-02-2008, 13:07
Well, do you think this is easily transferred to humans? And do we have any other nifty genes in our genepools, that might make for a cool abhuman race?

The thing about humans vs butterflies or clams though, is that I guess it might be easier to see the effects of having a small (mutated) group of individuals dominate the genepool when it's humans. If this group of individuals with an adaptive characteristic (like webbed feet) is too small, then you eventually get in-breeding, which results in more problems that might not be immediately apparent in butterflies, I suppose. I'm just guessing though.

And come to think of it, this might not be a bad thing anyway, for some abhumans...

schoon
18-02-2008, 02:34
Since the Afriel Strain has only been off-handedly mentioned by stormblade, I thought I might expound on them a bit.

One of the few genetic experiments embarked upon by the Imperium, they were created from the combined genes of many of its heroes. While they proved able, they also were widely regarded as unlucky and unpopular.

PhonelessInAtl
18-02-2008, 03:03
they published an article in the US WD listing rules for a bunch of different abhumans about the time of the ogre kingdoms release. they were a bit different then the kind youre discussing, but worth checking out if you can

jhon
18-02-2008, 03:48
what about the gator man and the goul in nercomanda ? can they go to the group of ab hemen?

RusVal
18-02-2008, 04:15
Talaran (sp?) dog soldiers are an alien race, no canine ab-human.

I know that. I was just pointing out that there was already a dog force out there.


There is no catgirl race out there.

Well, it was just a rumor.


Wulfen from the Space Wolves might be considered mutants, but why would the Space Wolves be the only ones who have a canine styled mutation? It's typical wargame perspective in which each "race" has totally unique stuff others could neeeeeeeeeeever have. :rolleyes:

Point, but like I always say: "Don't give Space Marine players more things to whine about." :p