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Toonces
14-02-2008, 19:54
High all,

Getting ready for my first game of Warhammer after nearly two decades of being away from the game and want to make sure I get the rules right the first time.

Fighting in Ranks - book says any model in a subsequent rank can fight if it is behind a model that is engaged.

Also - you can't have moved to fight in a rank.

But when it comes to removing casualties, the process is to remove a guy but remove it from the back because, while a dude in the front row died, effectively someone in back stepped forward.

If I have a unit of ten guys with spears like this:

ABCDE
FGHIJ

And soldier "B" is killed, does spearman "G" behind him get to attack? I'm guessing no because he's not behind a model that is engaged anymore - nor can he fight because he stepped into B's position and so moved...

Then again, a spearline seems much less powerful if the second rank soldiers only attack if their front file counterpart lives...

Anyway... hopefully I worded my question correctly. Insights would be appreciated - thanks.

Malorian
14-02-2008, 19:59
Yes he can attack.

Festus
14-02-2008, 20:04
Hi

Also - you can't have moved to fight in a rank.
Here's your mistake: A unit may always fight in rankS, even if the unit has moved. It is just that they fight in one less rank if they've moved this turn.

All surviving troopers in the second rank (or third or fourth with HE or Pikes) may still fight if the unit did't move.

Festus

Toonces
14-02-2008, 20:30
Oh, cool. Thanks for the clarification.

Still not 100% sure spears are wort the points but... guess you never know 'till you try it half a dozen times.

lparigi34
14-02-2008, 22:07
If they are worthy or not depends on your plan and tactics.

If you want a tarpit unit, then HW&Sh, but if think they can kill something, then Spears.

I always give spears to my NG's (unless they carry bows) and sometimes to my skeletons, but almost never to my Orcs (unless bigguns, then spears are good).

Remember the bigger the unit, the more expensive the upgrades become, so Big Spearmen units are way expensive and should be probably disregarded, but small units to cover flanks maybe are Ok.

Also it will depend on your enemies. IMHO, against always-charging-ASF low tough Elves, spears are gold. Against high T, heavy armour Chaos warriors, tehy are less useful.

Toonces
14-02-2008, 22:29
Thanks for the advice.

I'm mostly figuring out what to do with my Skavens... on Slaves, Spears seem so not worth the points. On Clanrats... again, just not worth it... I'd rather have more rats with slightly more survivability... I think... Hmmm...

SuperBeast
14-02-2008, 22:55
Spears have always struck me as a particularly Skaven weapon (even though they don't involve warpstone or triggers); killy-end as far away from you as possible...

Also, Ranks are usually something Skaven armies are never short of.

Try Spears for a while, see how you go.
Don't forget, all models are considered to have a handweapon, so if armed with spears & shields you have the option of spear & shield for charge-breaking (less defence, double the attacks) or HW&S for tar-pitting (much better defence, half the attacks).

Gorbad Ironclaw
15-02-2008, 03:50
Still not 100% sure spears are wort the points but... guess you never know 'till you try it half a dozen times.


Occasionally they are, but it's rather dependent on the match up and what else is happening.

forthegloryofkazadekrund
15-02-2008, 08:15
on a similar question about spearmen, if you have a character fighting in the front rank can a spearman behind him fight, a friend of mine insists he cant but im not sure

T10
15-02-2008, 10:28
Yes. The Spearman is behind a model in a fighting position.

-T10

EvC
15-02-2008, 11:00
Worth noting I suppose if you have a character on a horse in a unit with spears, then that might mean less spear attacks for you ;)

Festus
15-02-2008, 12:10
That depends: If you follow T10's diagram, where one model is one model, the model in the second rank may still fight... even if there is a Dragon in front of it :D

Festus