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Try Again Bragg
15-02-2008, 11:53
Does anyone else think that these things are the most rediculous pieces of technology in the 40k universe?

I first read about them in "For the Emperor" and due to the less-than serious nature of the Ciaphus Cain novels it did not bother me to much, but then it shows up again in "Ravenor: Returned". Basically, they are highly minaterized defensive shielding/teleporter devices. When a person wearing a displacement field is attacked, they are teleported away, or displaced, before the damage can be done, usually reappearing a few meters away from their original position.

I understand that these devices are probably products of the dark age of technology, during which many miraculous devices were created, but there are still so many things about these that I cannot accept.

Teleportation device in the form of a ring or pendant.
-I understand that the displacement only covers a very short distance, but the Imperial teleporter technology used for deep-striking and other things along those lines are huge and require large amounts of energy to function. Shinking that stuff down to "digital weapon" size seems beyond even the DAoT.

Danger Sensing Field
-I get that a person wearing the device is surrounded by some type of energy field, but in order to make it work right, the device would have to have the power to interpret whether or not things hitting the field are dangerous enough to warrant displacement and it would have to do it in tiny fractions of a second.

Power Source
-It's got to take a lot of energy to preform these actions. I can't believe that on top of all the tech needed to make the energy field and teleportation system work, a small piece of jewelry also contains a tiny generator or battery? Again, that is too much for me to accept.

Sorry for the rant, I just felt the need to vent. If you agree or disagree, please add some feedback.

Burnthem
15-02-2008, 12:12
Whilst it is entirely possible that Tech' like small teleporters was common during the DAoT, i agree that it is taken a little too far with this. A teleporter is one thing, but an intelligent 'early warning' system etc etc is a bit too far fetched IMO as well.

As with anything Black Library, take it with a pinch of salt, and adjust accordingly in your head. Dont feel as though you have to take absolutely everything written by some half-wit author as absolute canon :)

Killgore
15-02-2008, 12:18
i believe displacement fields are very 40k and fit in perfectly,they have also been around since at least 2nd edition when they where an item of wargear for characters

The imperium has giant starships that can travel vast distances, huge city destroying weapons and displacement fields, but what you also have to remember that this same imperium is also incapable of creating something as simple as an electric screwdriver or a kitchen toaster

Burnthem
15-02-2008, 12:53
ibut what you also have to remember that this same imperium is also incapable of creating something as simple as an electric screwdriver or a kitchen toaster


No, some worlds cannot do this, others can build Battleship Warp Drives over a weekend. You cannot make such a sweeping statement about the standard of technology in the Imperium, there is no such thing as a 'normal' or 'standard' Imperial world, they vary tremendously. Some are barely Steam-age, others are far, far in advance of anything we know or can dream of today.

Finnith
15-02-2008, 13:20
Refractor fields are roughly the same tech but use the energy from an attack and convert it to light energy robbing it of all kinetic/thermal ability to do damage.

If they can build a field that can convert that energy into light then it must just be the next step up to use the tech to convert the energy into something more useful such a powering a mini teleportation device. Dont forget the most the displacement field needs to move is 1 person and their clothes or whatevers inside the field. The big teleportation banks on starships will have to move squads of guys in heavy armour, plus all their weapons to a site hundreds or thousands of miles away.

It could be the amount of power required to move someone 2 foot to the left is alot less than moving the same person 3 foot to the left. As the distances and volume of matter being moved increases the amount of power doubles for every extra foot you want to move or trebles for every extra person. The big ones will also have to get through jamming signals, layers of rock etc meaning their size and power requirements would increase even more.

Im sure someone will have a nice physics style example for what im suggestion.

Malforus
15-02-2008, 13:58
I always immagined Displacer fields functioned off two principals...

First for its danger sense...its warp attuned to the psychic impression of the wearer when the wearer is under stress it triggers the device.


The actual "displacement" is a misnomer based off frame of referance, basically everything in a known universe is moving respective to some other part, a "true" center is impossible simply because the total knowlege of all movement in referance to all others is impossible to know by a sentient being (the limitation of being only able to congnate one sense of being limits this). As such the "displacement" simply flickers the user into the warp and returns them. The small "distance moved" is a reflection of the lack of physics application in the immaterium, the user simple "stops" relative to the local warp eddies and then returns to the materiam slightly out of phase due to the violation of physical laws in moving in and out of the warp.

Course we could all just be lazy and say a wizard did it.

Ikkaan
15-02-2008, 14:08
The imperium is probably not able to produce displacement fields, but maybe someone can clear up if those devices were built by humans in the first place? It may be jokaero technology (which is known to produce effects indistinguishable from magic).

TheLionReturns
15-02-2008, 14:23
If you mean that such tech seems out of place given the rest of the tech in the 40K universe I can see what you mean. However, I think GW have been quite clever in creating the universe in a way that really anything is possible in this regard. With the idea of a dark age of technology, and what borders on a fear of innovation they have set up a technological landscape of great variety. Some pieces of technology can be unbelievably advanced whilst others seem remarkably basic. It is technology borne of scavenging rather than innovation if you will.

In this landscape even technologies which seem similar can be at different levels as there is unlikely to be any cross pollenisation from different techs as technological discovery is based on finding STC's rather than research. For me this explains the disparity between displacer fields and teleporters.

Emperor's Grace
15-02-2008, 16:08
Refractor fields are roughly the same tech but use the energy from an attack and convert it to light energy robbing it of all kinetic/thermal ability to do damage.

If they can build a field that can convert that energy into light then it must just be the next step up to use the tech to convert the energy into something more useful such a powering a mini teleportation device.

I had always assumed this to be the case for the power source of the teleport.

The energy of the attack hitting the field is used to power the teleport or "recharge" the energy expended.

As for the "sensing", I just assumed that it read the speed of incoming objects and moved you if the speed was over a certain preset. Sort of like the modern Aegis radar, but with defensive rather than offensive results. Incidentally, this preset would also ensure that the incoming object could provide enough energy transfer for the full teleport as well.

The non-teleport functions could also use the same/similar system on ambient radiations to recharge the internal battery/capacitor. I think the "Iron Man" armor in Marvel was also explained to recharge in this manner (thermocouple-ish action on ambient radiations including light) at one time.

Brother Siccarius
15-02-2008, 16:22
I had always assumed this to be the case for the power source of the teleport.

The energy of the attack hitting the field is used to power the teleport or "recharge" the energy expended.

As for the "sensing", I just assumed that it read the speed of incoming objects and moved you if the speed was over a certain preset. Sort of like the modern Aegis radar, but with defensive rather than offensive results. Incidentally, this preset would also ensure that the incoming object could provide enough energy transfer for the full teleport as well.


You could also change that slightly and have it read the energy give off by an incoming attack striking the field, rather than speed, and teleport the user a short distance after reaching a threshold.

Spyros80
15-02-2008, 16:48
I believe that the Imperium is a lot more advanced that it appears on books, but in order to intensify the dark gothic style they just don't mention it thus appearing no better than today's tech.

Here is some info about the energy fields that they were available as wargear in the 2nd edition:

Refractor field (5 pts)
An energy field projected by a generator no larger than a pistol holster. It operates by dispersing the incoming energy (kinetic, heat, etc) of shots all over the total area of the field. When it's on it's visible by a hazy band of light, making hiding impossible.
(It gave a save of 5+ on a D6. When active the wearer cannot hide.)

Conversion field (10 pts)
This field converts incoming energy to light.
The same field is in the Rosarius.
(It gave a save of 4+ on a D6, and on successful saves it projected a blinding light at a radius equal to the weapon's strength, blinding unprotected troops on 4+. When blind no move/shot and HtH combat at WS1.)

Displacer field (20 pts)
A miniature warp drive with proximity detector, capable of detecting kinetic/energy shots, HtH attacks, and psychic attacks. It teleports the wearer out of harm, and has a safety mechanism that prevents materialization into solid walls etc. It doesn't work against a vortex grenade.
(It gave a save of 3+ on a D6, instantly shifting the character D6" at a random direction.)

Power field (35 pts)
A powerful bubble of energy that deflects any harm. The field tries to keep its spherical shape against incoming shots by diverting additional energy on penetration points. To save energy and allow the wearer to fire it flickers on/off in a rapid cycle. They are barely man-portable and normally are used in siege and boarding actions.
(It gave an awesome 2+ save on a D6 but only against shooting, a HtH opponent actually enters the field's perimeter thus offering no protection. Due to large size it gave a -1 penalty on the wearer's HtH score.)

Magos Explorator
15-02-2008, 16:56
Back in 2nd edition,a lot of this equipment wasn't limited to the Imperium--I remember playing with my Eldar, using lots of fields on my Exarchs. :) So some of the stuff in use by the Imperium could certainly be xenos-made.

Spyros80
15-02-2008, 17:03
So some of the stuff in use by the Imperium could certainly be xenos-made.
Either that, or the alien stuff worked in similar manner, or produced similar effect with different mechanics.

Try Again Bragg
15-02-2008, 18:05
Ok, thanks guys. Some of the stuff you mentioned was stuff that I had not thought of before. I still don't like it very much. I did not realize that you could take them in 2nd edition.

Champsguy
16-02-2008, 05:56
Well, as I played 2nd edition, I don't like the fact that you can't take them now. :)

The whole idea with 40K is that the Imperium of Man is built on the ruins of tens of thousands of years of civilization. What was life like before the Imperium? Star Trek? Sure. Star Wars? Sure. Babylon 5? Sure. Any sci-fi show you like can be shoehorned into the background. A lot of this stuff is leftover from those ancient days. And some of the factories are still capable of producing it.

nurgle_boy
16-02-2008, 16:02
I presume, like a lot of digital equipment, they are built buy the Jokaro, who have the tendency to do annoying things like take a working baneblade, and turn it overnight into 2000 laspistols.
Like orks, they have the ability to make what they like, but not know how, and i remember some background about them not being able to be forced to build things, as in one experiment they were walled in, and given a pile of scrap to make digital weapons, and the jokaro simply constructed an elaborate teleportation device to escape.

Either way, it it likely that these displacer feilds come from someone leaving vehicles near jokaro overnight, and waking up to find their armoured company replaced by a bunch of field generating rings...

DapperAnarchist
16-02-2008, 16:26
The Jokaro are great! Part of their description in RT was that it was a bad idea to capture one, as he'd likely take his cell and turn it into a teleporter that explodes afterwards! They're the 40K MacGyver, with fur. They were one of the odder parts of the Old Ones big life-creating thing.

Art Is Resistance
16-02-2008, 16:47
D-Fields came from the RT era, when all that was weird and wonderful ruled! the same tech that powers the D-Fields was also available to all armies as a D-Cannon, which was one of the most powerful heavy weapons out there.


As for the Jokaero, they were always an enigma as Dapper says, trying to force one to work for you in creating weapons was generally a bad idea - they would as soon make you a more efficient kettle as a world destroying weapon!