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View Full Version : Challenge: The 'ardest 2000 point gunline.



studderigdave
16-02-2008, 01:31
my friend has been playing fantasy for a while now, and has NEVER won a game. he has tried his luck with chaos, and orcs, and a few other armies to no avail. rather than seeing him drop out of fantasy, we suggested a little more firepower, alot less movement. we all know how horrible gunlines are, but the challenege to beat one is always a cool thing to try.

so anyways, my friend needs YOUR help warseer, he wants a gunline. he doesnt want to MOVE AT ALL, just sit and shoot. so to you, i ask, post up your most hellish 2000 point gunline, so he can pick the best (worst) and build it to crush us and maybe JUST MAYBE get a win after long years of getting trampled on.

Dragon Prince of Caledor
16-02-2008, 04:34
You realize that with a few tricks and maneuvers the gunline will be even more useless than any of his likely other lists. He should join the site for tactical ideas.. Good luck with that:)

Fusarius
16-02-2008, 04:43
dwarf thunderers, four bolt throwers with enginers, two cannons (one with master enginer) and some quarrelers.

studderigdave
16-02-2008, 06:34
yes, i realize that the gunline is completly one sided and can be foiled by alot of things, but i do have to admit it would still prolly more wins then his previous attempts at army building.

any more help? im guessing it will be a toss up between empire and dwarves, please post specifici lists, with the units mapped out.

thanks all

Dranthar
16-02-2008, 06:35
dwarf thunderers, four bolt throwers with enginers, two cannons (one with master enginer) and some quarrelers.

Add Thorek with his Anvil of Cheddar and you've got yourself a nasty, rude and feasibly broken gunline. A stone thrower would also be a good idea to incorporate, if only for the mass-destruction of infantry.

Throwing in some miners for (in conjunction with the anvil) a rear charge to take out your opponents shooters would also be a good idea, but that requres actually moving something and thus, some slight degree of tactics. Hmmm, maybe stick with a straight Imperial Guard, I mean dwarf gunline army. :D

EDIT: Sorry, don't have the dwarf book so I cant sort out a list for ya. :P

W0lf
16-02-2008, 10:02
Thorek Ironbrow add anything.

Hell it dosnt even have to be guns. If you cant win with thorek im not sure the games for you...

Hes so broken its just silly (in a sad sad way)

Nickn
16-02-2008, 11:13
Why not this

Empire 2k

Wizzard lord 250ish
3 battle wizzards 150ish each
80 handgunners 640ish
4 cannons 400
2 helblasters 220

close to 2000

Neknoh
16-02-2008, 11:15
I'd actually go for two helstrom Batteries or Steamtanks instead of those Hellblasters.
And furthermore, I'd probably throw out three units of 10 handgunners in favour of two Inner Circle Knights (if possible) for countercharge.

THAT would be nasty

studderigdave
16-02-2008, 11:43
how does this look?

wizard lord, lore of fire, assorted goodies
battle wizard, lore of fire, scroll and stone
battle wizard, lore of fire, scroll and stone

10 handgunners, FC, marksman wirth repeater handgun
10 handgunners, FC, marksman wirth repeater handgun
10 handgunners, FC, marksman wirth repeater handgun
10 handgunners, FC, marksman wirth repeater handgun

5 knights FC
5 knights FC

2 great cannon
2 mortar

1 goblin hewer (he likes the model alot, said he wants to use it)
1 hellstrike battery

is this gunline enough? with a lil counter charge.

Jack of Blades
16-02-2008, 11:54
There's only a couple of things I wanna ask...

Will he and the opponent enjoy playing this?

Does he really require it? why doesn't he just come here instead?


Besides that, he could use a Wizard Lord and 3 Battle Wizards all with the Lore of Heavens, bucketloads of Handgunners, 2 Cannons, 2 units of Outriders (without barding btw) and 2 Steam Tanks. If he wants to use the Goblin Hewer, then replace a Steam Tank with it and take another unit of Outriders instead of a Cannon.

Give the Lvl 2 Wizards as much to help them casting as possible (like +1 PD items and such), and when you run out of such items, give them Power Stones.

If he can't win with that, tell him to come here.

xragg
16-02-2008, 12:07
Easiest army to play, but I dont have the exact copy of it in front of me, is a powerhouse chaos tzeentch. My friend uses this list every so often in a 2k game, and the stuff is so strong. To the best of my memory:

4 chaos knights
1 tzeentch hero on demonic mount

1 chariot w/ tzeentch hero

1 tzeentch hero on disc
1 tzeentch lord on disc (though the lord might be in the chariot/mount)

Thats it, 8 models, i wish i knew what magic items he uses, but wow they are a beast to take down.

studderigdave
16-02-2008, 12:19
ok, thanks for that chaos list, but i clearly stated he wants a gunline.

also, we have taken into account the fact that it would not be crazy fun to play against, but id rather keep him in the gaming group playing simething rather then out of the group playing nothing.

so are the empire better at making a gunline or what?

Neknoh
16-02-2008, 13:32
The chaos list is illegal, it's only got two Core.

If you want the 7 model Chaos list, it goes something like:

Tz. Lord on Dragon w. Staff of Change & Golden Eye
Tz. Exalted in Chariot w. goodies
Tz. Exalted in Chariot w. goodies
3 Chariots
Shaggoth

W0lf
16-02-2008, 18:23
Thorek Gunline beats empire gunline by miles.

warlord hack'a
16-02-2008, 18:36
I am going to repeat what has been said because I'm sorry to say but it's just silly to make a gunline as last resort to winning. Why is he not winning, that is the question you should ask yourself, over and over again. It should be possible to win with any reasonable balanced armybuild, not every game, but some of them. If he fails to do that then he might be much better helped by posting the lists he used and the manner in which he lost, so that people with experience in playing those lists can help him out.

You see, playing against the gunlines posted above will perhaps make him win, but will not be fun for him or his opponents, so maybe he will win but who will want to play him after a few times being splattered from a distance? And then where is the fun in his gaming experience?

studderigdave
16-02-2008, 19:29
look, this is what he wants to make. i tried to help him on other builds, he dosn't want to hear it. i think 3-4 of the posters on this thread have actually tried to help me out on what i actually need, and the others are trying to get answers for things i cannot answer.

he wants to play gunline, i asked him if he is sure, he said yes.

we want a gunline for the challenge, i have no problem playing against it.

i made a post asking for a good gunline list at 2000 points. if your not gonna help me with what im looking for, please DON'T post ffs.

Murdoch
16-02-2008, 20:30
Dwarves do gun lines best.

Although they lack the magic of Empire or HE, the thunderers on their own make up for it. Throw in an Anvil with or without Thorek and a block of infantry to mop up the rest and he should do alright.

Oh and cannons over stone throwers, stone throwers over bolt throwers IMHO

studderigdave
16-02-2008, 20:55
so thunderers over quarrelers?

i think the anvil is a given, he likes that model as well, i think im gonna suggest the dwarf gunline, seems to be the general consensus here.

thanks for staying on topic.

W0lf
16-02-2008, 21:16
Dwarven Gunline:

Thorek
3x 10 Thunderers
4 Bolt throwers, S7 ones at that.
stone thrower
organ gun

Thats ALL the shooting you need. Thow in the best unit of ironbreakers you can with the remaining pts, add a thane if poss.

wizuriel
17-02-2008, 02:42
Do chaos dwarves.


uber cheap bolt throwers
blunderbusses

and the earthshacker is just full of win.

edit for 2k

1 lvl 4 sorc lord + black gem = 260
lvl 2 sorc = 100
lvl 2 sorc = 100
1 hobgoblin hero + harm + E shield + wolf + sword of might = 86

17 blunderbusses + champ + banner = 224
17 blunderbusses + champ + banner = 224
17 blunderbusses + champ + banner = 224
10 larm/shield wolfboys + command = 160
10 hobo = 20
10 hobo = 20
10 hobo = 20
10 hobo = 20
20 hobo = 40
20 hobo = 40


2 bolt throwers = 60
2 bolt throwers = 60
2 bolt throwers = 60
2 bolt throwers = 60

1 earth shacker = 110
1 earth shacker = 110

total = 1998

KUMA
17-02-2008, 05:39
I find that the chaos dwarf goblin chuckkas are vastly inferior to the death rockets, I find that 2 dr and 2 chuckers is enough. but you can toss 2 dr and 4 bt with 2 earthshakers on and pwn everything.

BTW I played this list once. I never will again. its ******* disgusting, if I wanted to play 40k i would :)

I now never take more than 1 ES, I love the bull centaurs and people will actually enjoy a game against you if you make it more fun...here is my current list:


Lord with Taurus, Black hammer of hashut, armor of the furnace and great weapon
centaur hero with armor of gazrakh, great weapon
level 1 sorcerer with 2 scrolls

Core
19 blunderbuss
19 blunderbuss
20 warriors with FC
pts 10 wolf riders with armor shield standard musician
pts 10 wolf riders with armor shield standard musician

Special
pts Death rocket
pts death rocket
pts 2 chuckkas

Rare
pts Earthshaker
pts 10 Bull centaurs with great weapons and heavy armor full command

studderigdave
17-02-2008, 06:24
as much as i would LOBE to see some CD's on the table i know for a fact he won't go for them. he would either have to pony up a crazy amount of money for the OOP models or spend alot of time converting them all from dwarf and BFSP plastics. a great idea for anyone else im afraid, but not him. i think he really has to decide between empire double stank and dwarven anvil death.

KUMA
17-02-2008, 06:34
Actually studder why dont you guys play some warbands games. I understand its not the same sort of tactics, but they are fast games that do allow people to understand the rules better, and they are quick so you can point out errors and offer advice. its easier to proxy at that level too. I would rather have you teach him how to use armies effectively than to have you teach him 40k. playing against a gunline is no fun, and its not fun to play a gunline either

Sarael
17-02-2008, 15:58
Dwarves w/o a doubt. I don't have the book, but can't quarrellers have GWs along with their Xbows? Or is that just for Rangers?

Anyway, were I to make a dwarven gunline, I'd at least have an anvil, w/ or w/o Thorek. DEF. w/ a Rune Lord.

1 Runesmith w/ dispel runes
1 M.Eng. for a cannon
1 Slayer Hero, for counter attacker, or Thane for BSB

3x10 quarrellers or thunderers

4 BTs w/ runes and engineers
2 Cannons, 1 w/ rune of reroll art, both w/ rune of burning
(or 6 BTs and one cannon, depending on which he prefers)

1 Flame Cannon (if points are still available), I think the Anvil takes up a rare slot.

If you still have any points left take more quarrellers / thunderers.

Disciple of Caliban
17-02-2008, 18:38
Dwarf gunline with Thorek, a few have been suggested, the only other thing to consider adding would be a gyrocopter, ok it involves moving, but it grants extra firing time, which is of huge benefit to a gunline

Conotor
17-02-2008, 21:52
...Why does he want a gunline? They are lame and boring to play with and against. If he wants to win he should mass white lions as high elves.

studderigdave
18-02-2008, 00:33
...Why does he want a gunline? They are lame and boring to play with and against. If he wants to win he should mass white lions as high elves.

again, thanks for keeping on topic :rolleyes:

anyways, thanks for the imput from people who stayed on topic, dwarves are defintly in fsvor i guess. ill still try to convinve him to make a more hybrid force, but he really just wants a gunline. he said he will make it more of a hybrid force after he sees how the gunline works.

again, thanks to all who stayed on topic.

Angelwing
18-02-2008, 01:12
For something a little different:
Tomb Kings

Queen Khalida
3 liche priests
loads of skeleton archers with the poison upgrade (from Khalida)
two catapults or swap one catapult for the casket of souls
flavour with chariots and scorpions for counter charges.

Whilst this isn't as tough as the dwarf gunline, it's a wee bit different.

warlord hack'a
18-02-2008, 08:45
8 speak chukka's, 2 doom divers, 4 orc mages, night gobbo blocks with fanatics (to slow down enemy advance), night goblin archers (loads of them are bound to hit something), a few fast cav units and 2 bolcks of orc with choppa shield and you have a list that can stand and blast and delay and divert and on turn 6 use waaagh to charge whatever is left of the enemy.

magic plus the chukkas and doomdivers will hurt the enemy quite a bit..

Neknoh
18-02-2008, 08:59
I'd have to say that either Angelwing or Hack'a has put the best suggestions sofar, it's not really what you'd expect from Gunlines and both armies are easely workeable into completely different ones without adding too many new units.

Add to that that the Gobblin horde offers loads of fun whilst the Tomb Kings can be developed into true tactical goodness.

Sarael
18-02-2008, 11:58
I totally forgot about TK and O&G firing lines :P

TK gun lines have the advantage of poison (though I don't recommend it on EVERY unit). The casket is like an overpowered Anvil.

O&G lines have fanatics, more magic, more heroes (if they're all goblin), and more numbers. Stopping the enemy in their tracks and automatically getting an extra turn of shooting in with O&G is bound to be nice. Animosity would be a pain in the rear though (and if he were to choose this route, find ways to mitigate/negate it). Is Azhag back in yet? He used to be a good way to negate animosity.

Krootman
18-02-2008, 13:30
how does this look?

wizard lord, lore of fire, assorted goodies
battle wizard, lore of fire, scroll and stone
battle wizard, lore of fire, scroll and stone

10 handgunners, FC, marksman wirth repeater handgun
10 handgunners, FC, marksman wirth repeater handgun
10 handgunners, FC, marksman wirth repeater handgun
10 handgunners, FC, marksman wirth repeater handgun

5 knights FC
5 knights FC

2 great cannon
2 mortar

1 goblin hewer (he likes the model alot, said he wants to use it)
1 hellstrike battery

is this gunline enough? with a lil counter charge.

if you would run something like this why not give every gunchamp the hochland long rifle, your bound to take out a character or 2 and just having 4+ of them will make your opponent think twice when deploying.

studderigdave
19-02-2008, 00:47
he has chosen empire offially. i think because no one in our group plays empire,while 2 people play dwarfs already. he is gonna start at 1k and get a few games under his belt before moving to 2k.

thanks for al the help.

@krootmam. the original list i had drawn up had all the champs having the hochland, i just threw the reapers in for looks. i think the hochland is great for taking out characters.

warlord hack'a
19-02-2008, 12:30
starting empire at 1000 points is good, if he goes for 1000 pts in almost entirely guns and later decides he wants to have more close combat then he can just add 1000 points of knights and foot sluggers and you have a 2000 pt balanced list!

wish him well and get him to join the forum, or the empire website for tactical tips and fun in general..

Disciple of Caliban
20-02-2008, 11:19
more heroes (if they're all goblin),

Is Azhag back in yet? He used to be a good way to negate animosity.

Sorry for going off topic, but i just thought i'd clarify these points for you:

O+G no longer get the option to field extra big boss's if they decide to have all goblin heros, this is a bit of a shame, but helps ensure those Goblin armies have plenty of points for fast cav and fanatics!!

Azhag is back, and can still quell animosity, but only to a very very small portion of the army, and by fielding Azhag you'd be unable to field a real mage lord, which is half the fun of the magic and gunline army!

Kabal of The Ordo Mallius
20-02-2008, 12:43
Drop Fantasy and get wh40k. Get your freind to play static gunline Tau. Watch your opponents tears.

warlord hack'a
20-02-2008, 13:15
now that sounds like great fun to play against! (kidding).

The point was not that someone liked shooting, but that they wanted to have an army that would actually be able to win in warhammer fantasy, so static gunline tau does not really meet the needs of this customer..

Krootman
20-02-2008, 14:32
Drop Fantasy and get wh40k. Get your freind to play static gunline Tau. Watch your opponents tears.

static tau sucks everyitme i play vs it I laugh as I tear it to shreds....mech tau is so much better then static tau in every way shape and form.

As for the long rifles id take, if your buddy wants to win they will really help you win and you should take them.

Just throwing it out there so you can use it or not heres what I would take in a 1k empire gunline.

Heros
warrior priest'
-great weapon//heavy armor
-sigil of sigmar
113

warrior priest
-great weapon/heavy armor
98

Core
10 handgunners
-long rifle
120

10 handgunners
-long rifle
120

10 handgunners
-long rifle
120

each with a 5 man free company detchment
75 points

19 halberdiers
-standard musician
107

with a detchment of 8 halberdiers

Special
Great cannon
100

Rare
hellblaster
110

i pretty much sit back and shoot while the free company delay my opponent and then the my warrior priests help the halberdiers with combat