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View Full Version : So...have you stopped using GW miniatures?



Wolfblade670
17-02-2008, 04:30
Well I've recently decided I'm gonna stop buying GW miniatures as I can't get enough bang for my buck anymore. I still plan on playing 40k, just not with the company's minis. (No doubt they'll have the =I= on me before long...)

Has anyone else here decided to stop paying absurd prices for their models?

BrainFireBob
17-02-2008, 04:43
Probably, but their minis are the best out there if you like heroic proportions.

Give ebay or bartertown a shot for second hand (including whole sprues) if you can't afford retail anymore.

byteboy
17-02-2008, 05:04
I "plan" to stop buying minis after completing 5k points of Necrons/Imperial Guard and possibly the Daemon Legions army coming out. Other than that, I have enough to keep me happy till I am six feet under.

snurl
17-02-2008, 05:30
Stop buying? no, but I don't exactly run right out and get the newest stuff anymore. The price has cut way into my impulse purchases.

There are bargains to be had on Ebay.

Zink
17-02-2008, 05:48
I still spend about the same amount as always on minis. But now instead of GW getting 90% of that money they get about 20%. I'm not selling the minis I already have finished. I'm still buying a few odds and ends to fill out armies that I do have and will buy the occasional interesting model. But I have no plans for any new GW armies unless I get them somewhere for half price or less. The only exception is that I may do a Rohan army someday. But the LOTR plastics are cheap compared to the other lines.

ankara halla
17-02-2008, 07:33
I'm pretty much done buying GW as well and it's not about not being able to afford them. I literally have more than ten times the entertainment budget that I had when I started the hobby. It's simply the percived value for money, I don't find it there anymore.

I'll propably keep on buying the codexes (some of them...) and the rulebooks and the occasional minies, but even them I'll buy second hand. I'll usually only need to wait a month after release to get a mint condition codex/rulebook for less than half what it retails for.
I'm old, I'm not in a hurry to get anything :)

bringerofdecay
17-02-2008, 08:08
i'll keep buying till i can't afford them/fall away from the hobby, the price still isn't a huge problem (to me) yet and they really do do some nice models

Huw_Dawson
17-02-2008, 08:38
The thing is, GW far outstrips its competition when it comes to more specialised things, like WFB Artillery. The Dwarven Grudge Thrower is £18 (!) which is jolly expensive. However, the crew members inside are some of the best Dwarven models going, and as such I was glad to buy them. I think with GW you theoretically should be paying for quality, rather than cheapness. If you want cheap armies, go with the starter boxes, or LOTR. ;)

- Huw

devolutionary
17-02-2008, 08:41
Let's see...

I can pay $65 for 6 metal infantry (who are on the small side) from Privateer Press (or $110 if I want 4 heavy infantry).
I can pay $16 for a single very small, poorly cast, but well scaled model from Corvus Belli for Infinity.
Or I can pay $55 a get a whole damn regiment/squad in ******* plastic, with options and accessories, that aren't a pain in the but to clean mold lines and flash from.

So no, I don't think I will stop buying GW any time soon :p

Son of Morkai
17-02-2008, 08:52
I doubt I'll ever stop using GW miniatures. Other companies produce some models I like... but on average they're more expensive (due to shipping and handling and/or currency conversion rates) than GW miniatures, and it tends to be just one model here or there in a range. Never enough to build a coherent army. Rarely enough to build a single squad. Similarly, I only buy GW models that I like. If I don't like the models for a unit, but want to field it in my army, I'll just make models for 'em myself.

Khornies & milk
17-02-2008, 09:14
I won't stop using them...I paid good money for them, and at 25% off in the main, but it's STILL good money. I only have to spend about another A$600 and I will have all the Army lists I'm interested in collecting....then that's it. I'll spend my time learning the in's and out's of my lists, and play a lot of games so I'll get the most out of them.
Done and dusted!

The_Warsmith
17-02-2008, 09:33
way too addicted to GW mini's to stop using them :D

but i've been using e-bay and other cheeper sources of gettin them for some years

Axel
17-02-2008, 09:41
I buy what I like, which means an Ork army lately, though for mass I loot eBay.

As someone who playes Empire in WFB for well over 15 years I was severely disappointed by their new range. This "heroic" scale only goes so far before it becomes ridiculous, and some of the guns or handguns are definitely on the wrong side of that line. So my empire army is 50% Foundry and some 20% from other manufactures, only around 30% from GW (and thats from 15 years of collecting).

For 40k there are plenty of alternatives for IG, but the other races are usually so specialized that its hard to find minis that fit well in. Not that it keeps me from buying these other minis, but they won`t see usage in 40k.

Darnok
17-02-2008, 09:42
The miniatures I have were bought because I liked their look, or the possibilities in modelling they offered. So why should I stop using them? Correct, I won't.

Easy E
17-02-2008, 09:59
I have stopped buying new models for the most part. Instead, I use the all ready existing hordes I have, and try to make my own versions of things I need/want.

Damien 1427
17-02-2008, 10:24
Not really. I buy what I like and I feel is worth the money. Though the online store fiasco has meant I've been unable to buy what I like, for the most part.

Bookwrak
17-02-2008, 10:34
Essentially, if you're going to keep playing 40K and buying models, then there's not a whole lot of point in not buying GW miniatures. You're not going to find that much of a monetary difference buying some other company's models for a whole army, but whatever floats your boat.

Griefbringer
17-02-2008, 10:38
I have always been buying from multiple companies - on the fantasy side of things, there is no shortage of alternatives at decent prices.

The Judge
17-02-2008, 12:05
As someone said before, resin dust is like cocaine for geeks like me... Forgeworld will certainly not be losing my custom (despite their infuriating order speed).

As I've never liked plastic models (compared to metal, that is) the purchase of the main GW miniatures will certainly slow down though.

Death Korp
17-02-2008, 12:05
I won't stop buying GW minis, ever, becuase they are some of the best minis out there for price. As some people have already said, there are some companies who you have to pay loads for not alot of minis, and they are not really good looking. But, even though GW is a little expensive, it seems cheaper to buy their goods then from anywhere else.

I buy Online most of the time now, from Gamers Warhouse and E bay, but i make that occasional LOTR purchase from a store, since they are the cheapest range about :)

DK

Gaebriel
17-02-2008, 12:07
I still use my GW models, of course, though I play GW systems less and less (and didn't get around to buying into specialist games when I was still willing to shell out that money).

I was litterally drowning in GW miniatures, but I stopped buying more a couple of years ago, cut down my plans, and sold the overhead.

Given the latest developments, I will not buy GW miniatures in the future, and play my army until it becomes incompatible with the ongoing editions.

twj
17-02-2008, 12:43
I will still buy GW models. When I first started it was £13 for 10 lead IG models, now it is £18 for 20 plastic IG models with far more options. However, like most people here I have far too many models already and should probably invest in storage instead...

TheLionReturns
17-02-2008, 12:53
No I still by GW models and happily do so. I think on the whole they have improved over the years. I am heartened to see so many decent minis from other manufacturers now too however. I definitely buy more non GW that I used to but that is because they are offering good minis rather than there being a problem with GW's. The price is largely irrelevant to me. I buy to paint, model and collect so my rate of purchases is lower than most. As a result I don't feel the prices in the way others might.

Freakiq
17-02-2008, 12:56
The minis are the reason I play this game.

If I only did it for the rules I'd use bottlecaps with names on them instead of minis.

mrtn
17-02-2008, 13:54
I won't stop buying GW completely, but mostly I buy second hand or from other manufacturers. Why pay £12 for a GW minotaur, when you can pay £1.50 for a mino that's slightly smaller, but doesn't have that ugly pig snout?

TheOneWithNoName
17-02-2008, 13:58
I haven't stopped buying from GW, but I have recently discovered the great lines from Gamezone Miniatures and Reaper and have started purchasing from them for use in GW games.

Imperialis_Dominatus
17-02-2008, 14:13
The minis are the reason I play this game.

If I only did it for the rules I'd use bottlecaps with names on them instead of minis.

QFT. Though I play it for fluff in addition- I'm addicted. Just got done writing what will turn out to be a thirty-page story when I type it out- Chaos is so fun. :evilgrin:

Patriarch
17-02-2008, 14:19
I only use GW minis, but mostly from eBay. I purchase direct from GW for stuff you can't generally get second hand, like the newer SG stuff. Having said that, thanks to downgrading bitz I don't see too many GW mail order purchases in the near future.

As a part-time fanboy old git I get the impression GW doesn't want the loyalty of people like me, so that overrides any "guilt" I might feel about not directly supporting them these days.

Killus Maximus
17-02-2008, 14:47
I love GW minis - won't stop buying them. Our group stopped buying GW Rules quite some time ago though and instead use homebrew rules that don't make us pull our hair out.

Vic
17-02-2008, 15:18
I use GW minis, but also Star Ship trooper ones, and Pig Iron, and EM4 etc. My table, my house, my rules, my minis.

Supremearchmarshal
17-02-2008, 18:47
The only thing I've decided is to not start any new armies because of the price hikes, the bitz fiasco and GW's tendency to make units or even entire armies redundant/illegal in their next update. My current armies are almost finished (exactly 10 models left to go: 5 SM + 5 LatD). After I finish my armies I'll just buy the codexes and maybe the occasional really cool-looking model.

CapitanGuinea
17-02-2008, 19:55
yes. Or in the fact, as ordered by my minstress, I ceased buy from GW, on her trust. She was very right...

Templar Ben
17-02-2008, 21:45
I will continue to buy LotR models for as long as they are made.

Lars Porsenna
18-02-2008, 01:32
Let's see...
I can pay $16 for a single very small, poorly cast, but well scaled model from Corvus Belli for Infinity.


Your experience must be different from mine then, because ALL of the Infinity figures I've bought are phenomenally high quality, best on the market. Even the multi-part figures have better fit than some high end plastic kits!

Damon.

Lars Porsenna
18-02-2008, 01:39
The minis are the reason I play this game.

If I only did it for the rules I'd use bottlecaps with names on them instead of minis.

This is really where it's at. When I decide to collect a specific army, I do so not because its the "killingest" but because the figures are cool. Sometimes fluff can bring me around too, but its mostly about the figures.

Damon.

devolutionary
18-02-2008, 04:29
Your experience must be different from mine then, because ALL of the Infinity figures I've bought are phenomenally high quality, best on the market. Even the multi-part figures have better fit than some high end plastic kits!

Damon.

Yep, you definitely have a completely different experience to all the infinity players I know. They're very nice sculpts with very good detail, but the arms never fit quite right and the amount of flash is infuriating. Putting the legs on my Scouts is a mission and a half - the thighs don't even line up since the dagger and cloak end up trying to share the same space of existence. And the Tankhunters are just craziness!

Of course, I have two of each of those models because they're my favourite, but that's not the point :p

cailus
18-02-2008, 04:47
I really limit my spending these days and every purchase is usually planned well in advance so I can actually afford it (and I earn good money - however if you want to have a life outside of the hobby.

Last thing I brought was an Ork trukk and that was only because I had a gift voucher.

DonkeyMan
18-02-2008, 09:07
I think many people have stopped buying GW minis, but many just continue to play with their existing range. You really won't find alternatives for 40K that easy (much easier for Fantasy). Infinity doesn't cover everything.

Pokpoko
18-02-2008, 11:29
I think many people have stopped buying GW minis, but many just continue to play with their existing range. You really won't find alternatives for 40K that easy (much easier for Fantasy). Infinity doesn't cover everything.
for more...esoteric things like orcs or eldar,yes. but beefy power armor is common as mud,in all forms-plastic,metal,resin...same with IG. tyranids could be proxied with arachnids. tau might be a bit more trouble,but mixing some sort of humans with karamans from AT-43 for battlesuits might work-same with vehicles,there's plenty of companies doing resin sf tanks and apc's. necrons? the damn therians from AT-43 are cooler if anything, and i hate rubber models:p

yeah, so i don't buy GW models anymore;)
i would want some of them,like the new trukk,but seeing as i don't need them for immediate gaming, it's hard to justify the price for a plastic kit really.


They're very nice sculpts with very good detail, but the arms never fit quite right and the amount of flash is infuriatingi'v never had any trouble putting the models together(well,maybe the fiddly antennas).in fact,after seeing the avatar and cutter,i'm in love-these guys were designed in such way to not reuire a single pinning for a big metal model:D. but yes,they do contain exessive amounts of flash,the older models more so than the new ones.

DonkeyMan
18-02-2008, 12:40
for more...esoteric things like orcs or eldar,yes. but beefy power armor is common as mud,in all forms-plastic,metal,resin...same with IG. tyranids could be proxied with arachnids. tau might be a bit more trouble,but mixing some sort of humans with karamans from AT-43 for battlesuits might work-same with vehicles,there's plenty of companies doing resin sf tanks and apc's. necrons? the damn therians from AT-43 are cooler if anything, and i hate rubber models:p

Well, they don't look similar enough for me, but that's my viewpoint.
In Fantasy I can get much closer to the original.

mark.k
18-02-2008, 14:37
stop using nope but ill stop buying after ive got 40 more eldar and 20 more space marines then ill be moving on to Hordes Legion Everblight which i think look very cool
http://www.privateerpress.com/HORDES/default.php?x=world/legion

Pokpoko
18-02-2008, 16:09
Well, they don't look similar enough for me, but that's my viewpoint.
In Fantasy I can get much closer to the original.
the real question then is not "can i get models to represent the units in codex",but "can i get alternative sculpts of X GW models". and that's two different things:D

Wolflord Havoc
18-02-2008, 17:24
Nope - happy with the models and the prices - if you were paying for simular quality for say WW2 or Modern model kits available from i dunno Tamiya for example - you would be paying as much if not more for them.

Pokpoko
18-02-2008, 18:09
not really. 15 WWII infantrymen from Tamiya (1/48,37mm high)cost about 8~9Ł.
Challanger 2 tank, 1/35 scale, roughly the same size as Land Raider-18Ł(also Tamiya,so high-quality)

Chaos and Evil
18-02-2008, 18:18
I buy a lot from Specialist Games (Epic, BFG)

floyd pinkerton
18-02-2008, 21:18
I've stopped buying from GW, though i still use Ebay and trade here.

It's not so much not being able to spend that much, but it just twigged to me that I was paying £18 for, at the end of the day, ten lumps of plastic. It's ridiculous. I'd rather stick hot pins in my eyes then spend that much again.

Jedi152
19-02-2008, 08:39
Erm ... no. I'll still buy them, but i do tend to look round for online stores and eBay more.

Gazak Blacktoof
19-02-2008, 10:05
I've not bought any models in a long time.

The last purcases I made were the might empires tiles and the warhammer buildings boxed set.

My most recent miniatures purchases were some dacians, persians and indians from Foundry.

There's simply nothing I need at the moment. I'm tempted to get a few daemons and start a 40K/ fantasy army when the rules are released however I'll take a look at the rules first because I'd be purchasing them for use at GTs and club events rather than for using a home where we house rule anything we want.

Avian
19-02-2008, 11:31
I've ordered some grot crewmen from their bitz catalogue, but that's it for these last six months (and probably the next six months too). I still play as much as ever, though, but now I focus more on fixing up old models and converting things rather than buying new stuff.

I was a bit tempted by the new daemons, but at current prices I won't be buying any.

Cacodemon
19-02-2008, 11:53
I've bought only from online stores with big discounts or from other players. I won't be buying anything for the full retail price anymore.

gjnoronh
19-02-2008, 13:11
Let's see...

I can pay $65 for 6 metal infantry (who are on the small side) from Privateer Press (or $110 if I want 4 heavy infantry).
I can pay $16 for a single very small, poorly cast, but well scaled model from Corvus Belli for Infinity.
Or I can pay $55 a get a whole damn regiment/squad in ******* plastic, with options and accessories, that aren't a pain in the but to clean mold lines and flash from.

So no, I don't think I will stop buying GW any time soon :p

QFT

Same idea for some of the bargain basement miniatures of dubious qualities you sometimes see advertised in some of the trade magazine or rarely in a FLGS - so I get a worse looking single pose metal figure in a smaller scale than GW's plastics for a higher price for the metal? And I can't use it in the next GT I go to. Why would I do that?

Jim
19-02-2008, 13:25
Erm ... no. I'll still buy them, but i do tend to look round for online stores and eBay more.


Seconded!

Although I am mostly using online stores / ebay to buy specific 'bitz' for conversions, etc... rather than whole new armies.

I know there are other companies out there that might be cheaper but I really like the GW style - although thats not to say that they don't release some stinkers occasionally - Yes, I'm talking to you metal possessed CSM's!!!

Jim

Osbad
19-02-2008, 14:14
Same idea for some of the bargain basement miniatures of dubious qualities you sometimes see advertised in some of the trade magazine or rarely in a FLGS - so I get a worse looking single pose metal figure in a smaller scale than GW's plastics for a higher price for the metal? And I can't use it in the next GT I go to. Why would I do that?

Sure if you just want to walk in off the street and buy plastic models and you specifically want the "GW look" to your models, then GW have got you cornered.

BUT.

If you are prepared to buy off the internet and prepared to look beyond the end of your nose, and prefer metal, then there are loads of decent suppliers of sci-fi and fantasy models out there.

And they are often cheaper.

For instance, just off the top of my head, GW charge £2.50 for a Kasrkin sniper:
http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk?do=Individual&code=99060105224&orignav=10

Yet em4miniatures charge £1.25, half GW's price, for something very similar:
http://www.em4miniatures.com/acatalog/TROOPERS.html

And even for plastics (although admittedly the non-GW options are more limited here):

GW charge £18 for 20 plastic Cadians (90p each)
http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk?do=Individual&code=99120105008&orignav=10

Yet em4miniatures charge £2.50 for 5 sci-fi troopers (50p each):
http://www.em4miniatures.com/acatalog/Science_Fiction.html

Now, I am aware it is possible to go around and around the houses picking off individual models where GW prices are reasonable, and someone else is charging a lot more for something similar. Also, I can rack up a long list of GW models for which I could find an acceptable (to my eyes, if not yours) proxy by a cheaper non-GW manufacturer.

In the end it all boils down to which models you like and whether you think they are worth the money.

That's missing the point.

My point is that if you dismiss non-GW manufacturers as being of "poor quality and anyhow more expensive than GW", then you are doing yourself a disservice. It is simply wrong to broadbrush GW's competition like that. Doing so means you miss out on the offerings of many, many good companies out there, and no one is suffering for that other than yourself.

GW have a comparative advantage when it comes to multi-part plastic kits, and if they float your boat then it may not be worth your effort to look elsewhere. Also if you simply *must* stick rigidly to GW's designs then of course no-one else does quite the same thing (although Gamezone come pretty close ;)) But when it comes to more generic sci-fi and fantasy metals, GW are rarely the cheapest.

It sometimes boggles my mind the lengths some people will go to in terms of converting, sculpting and bitzing their models in search of a "unique" look to their army. When all they had to do was order some models from another manufacturer and they could have had a pretty "unique" army at far less hassle, and probably cost too.

Shoot, I've even heard of someone who is doing a Tau "counts as" army with AT-43 prepainted Karmans! Giant, power-armoured space monkeys FTW!

Odin
19-02-2008, 15:27
No, I haven't completely sworn off GW minis, but I have decided to start buying non-GW minis, such as the Gamezone version of the Warhawk Riders. And I'm generally sticking with the GW models I currently have, rather than buying new ones. If the Bloodletters are still legal in a Mortal army I'll have to get a unit of them, they're great. In fact, I suspect a lot of the new Chaos stuff will have a go at emptying my wallet. But generally I don't buy much GW these days.

Sir_Turalyon
19-02-2008, 15:32
90% of miniatures I buy are from second hand; only minis I buy from GW are cheaper then older equivalents (new plastic DA veterans are cheaper then second hand old metal ones). My ork army is made from OOP models on principle, and my marine army includes models from all ranges, mostly OOP.

I don't buy models of other manufacturers, through, except as basis for conversions. Most of them are eighter purposefuly made ugly in attempt to create original (unlike GW) range, are just butt ugly and uninspired, or are not that much cheaper then GW. I don't avoid other companies on principle, I'm just buying models that look good and will look good painted, and non-GW models rarely qualify.

gjnoronh
19-02-2008, 15:59
@Osbad let's be clear I think there are a number of very good manufacturers those EM4 minis aren't bad - but the folks who I think in the top tier for sculpts are Privateer, Reaper, Rackham, and GW.

Those lines all have some dogs and some real winners but overall those are four of the best lines. IME they are all priced around the same point - with GW actually being a bit cheaper.

The bag of bargain basement minis - I was referring to didn't include the stuff you pointed out (which is indeed quite reasonable) but rather mini makers like Old Glory for example. (great now here come the old Glory fans. . . )

Paul I just converted out 16 'minotaurs' using GW's ogre and chaos spawn plastic bits. I might have been able to buy 'unique' miniatures (e.g. single pose metals) from someone elses line and had something 'different' but to me busting things out of the box, filling off the flash and putting them on bases doesn't feel like I've done something unusual/interesting (except pick a new manufacturer to give my money to.)

But that floats my boat - I like painting and converting for me it's part of how I get value from these little toy soldiers i buy. If you don't and you want to have something different to play with than the other boys it's cool to have lots of manufacturers to work with.

yabbadabba
19-02-2008, 16:59
Stopped using? Never - I have a lot of great models and a lot of money invested in them!

Stopped buying? - No, but not as much as I did.

Still looking for alternative models and other wargames? Definitely.

heretics bane
19-02-2008, 17:06
I havent bought any GW minis in months, they just dont seem to be in the same region as food,clothes,friends and more food

sunkist
20-02-2008, 02:07
I prefer to trade and buy second hand minis (OOP or latest version) in almost all conditions. My LGS provides me lot of bitz, so, it's easy to find proper bitz and restore OOP tanks, vehicles or figures with a good Dremel, sand paper, putty, styrene sheets, time and passion. Once done, my minis look like new one :)

Occasionally, I buy new stuff.

dodicula
20-02-2008, 07:18
These days my money goes to Gamezone and Rackham as their miniatures are clearly superior, its funny you should mention this as I used to be tempted by every new GW army, but the last few releases not so much, for example...the only thing I'm planning on getting for the current set of releases High ELves/Demons/VC is the Plague Bearer command.

There are amazing new sculpts coming out these days but it seems GW has a smaller and smaller % of them

Col.Gravis
20-02-2008, 11:26
I buy as an when I need or want something, thats generally but not excluisvely small purchases or Forgeworld stuff though, but not for any reason other then not desiring to expand my collection with more core bits.

Hrafn
20-02-2008, 12:47
@Osbad let's be clear I think there are a number of very good manufacturers those EM4 minis aren't bad - but the folks who I think in the top tier for sculpts are Privateer, Reaper, Rackham, and GW.

Those lines all have some dogs and some real winners but overall those are four of the best lines. IME they are all priced around the same point - with GW actually being a bit cheaper.

The bag of bargain basement minis - I was referring to didn't include the stuff you pointed out (which is indeed quite reasonable) but rather mini makers like Old Glory for example. (great now here come the old Glory fans. . . )


Couldn't agree more. (even to your point about Old Glory - but I'd add Black Tree just to add to the angry mob :D )

The Guy
20-02-2008, 17:47
I haven't stopped but I've cut down. I've started buying less over a longer time. That way I can spend more time painting and assembling and actually getting something out of them before I but again. I also buy tanks from tamia for my IG. 2 APCs for £22 or 1 chimera for 18? Hmm...

Etienne de Beaugard
20-02-2008, 17:52
I generally don't buy GW minis any more, but then again, I haven't bought a new mini in over three years. Several years ago, GW exceeded my price-value tolerance, but many other companies have done the same since then.

Personally, I've found myself attracted to more realistic/historical minis, while GW moves further and further toward heroic/comic sculpts. Their multiple years of large price increases/box reductions also left a bad taste in my mouth.

The other thing that has put me off GW are the directions their core games started to head. Most new releases would leave me frustrated and disappointed.

Ethlorien
20-02-2008, 18:22
The majority of my purchases are still GW (my last purchase was 11 boxes of HE over Christmas). I like their quality, their sculpts, plastic, stuff like that. I have no problem buying other company's models if I like the look of them, but those purchases are rare. I don't really care that much about price. I'm certainly not made of money, but if I like something enough I can usually justify spending money on it.

Templar Ben
20-02-2008, 20:16
I generally don't buy GW minis any more, but then again, I haven't bought a new mini in over three years. Several years ago, GW exceeded my price-value tolerance, but many other companies have done the same since then.

Personally, I've found myself attracted to more realistic/historical minis, while GW moves further and further toward heroic/comic sculpts. Their multiple years of large price increases/box reductions also left a bad taste in my mouth.

The other thing that has put me off GW are the directions their core games started to head. Most new releases would leave me frustrated and disappointed.

You should consider LotR.

antin3
20-02-2008, 21:40
I have checked into other miniatures and for rank and file troops you can't beat GW. Do I like all of their mini's...absolutely not, in fact I think Reaper have some of the best looking mini's anywhere. But I like plastic, I realize some complain about plastic but with GW improving their plastic range much of the plastic that has come out in say, the last two years is awesome. So easy to clean and convert and so many extra bits. I guarantee you will find that with no other company period.
I would like to see improvements in HE spears and clanrats but I can find alternatives for the spearelves (old LSG). I play HE and I really wish that they had more models in plastic.
I can see using other companies mini's for hero or lord characters but I feel if I am playing with GW's rules at game stores that are still filled by far with a majority of GW gamers then I will use their products. I like to convert models too much to just buy another company's mini for something different.
Believe me I would like to see another company come along to give GW competition, I mean that's always a good thing, but for now Reaper hasn't tried hard enough to create or build a gaming community and for some reason PP hasn't taken off too much yet and I am not sure I like thier model range any more than GW.

Etienne de Beaugard
21-02-2008, 00:44
You should consider LotR.

I have. Things holding me back:

* My main hobby is the SCA, and I'm prepping my combat archery kit for this season (i.e. all expendable cash going toward armor and weapons.)

* While I love Tolkien's work and world, I've rarely enjoyed gaming in it, be it RPG or wargaming (though it did like ICEs old trading card game).

* I still balk at GW prices.

I have a plan to make a Hundred Years War company using Perry Minis and Gondorian rules, but this is on hold until the budget frees up.

Templar Ben
21-02-2008, 01:27
I have. Things holding me back:

* My main hobby is the SCA, and I'm prepping my combat archery kit for this season (i.e. all expendable cash going toward armor and weapons.)

* While I love Tolkien's work and world, I've rarely enjoyed gaming in it, be it RPG or wargaming (though it did like ICEs old trading card game).

* I still balk at GW prices.

I have a plan to make a Hundred Years War company using Perry Minis and Gondorian rules, but this is on hold until the budget frees up.

Fair enough. I just know that if you are tired of pumpkin heads and mitten hands LotR can be a great break.

Vaz84
21-02-2008, 18:57
Let's see...

I can pay $65 for 6 metal infantry (who are on the small side) from Privateer Press (or $110 if I want 4 heavy infantry).
...
Or I can pay $55 a get a whole damn regiment/squad in ******* plastic, with options and accessories, that aren't a pain in the but to clean mold lines and flash from.



Uhh..

First things first, PP models are 30mm to GW's 28mm.
Second, the most expensive metal infantry for say, Cygnar are 31$ for Six, and this is on the expensive side, most units of 6 cost 20$, with 6-8$ for 2 more tropers to fill out. Heavy infantry (man-o-wars, khador) are 60$ for 5 models made of metal, bigger than terminators.

I've bought 200$ of PP models this week and seen minimal flash and mold lines. (all dollar amounts are US amounts)

Ive been a GW fanatic untill recent, but I care not to support that cause anymore.

Crazy Harborc
22-02-2008, 01:40
I have cut WAY back on buying GW's goodies. I have a "pickup at the store WD subscription". I am lucky, I don't plan on buying any "new to me" armies. I have no need to spend the big bucks direct. No longtime customer's discount, no senior citizen's discount.

Hrafn
22-02-2008, 08:27
Uhh..

First things first, PP models are 30mm to GW's 28mm.
Second, the most expensive metal infantry for say, Cygnar are 31$ for Six, and this is on the expensive side, most units of 6 cost 20$, with 6-8$ for 2 more tropers to fill out. Heavy infantry (man-o-wars, khador) are 60$ for 5 models made of metal, bigger than terminators.

I've bought 200$ of PP models this week and seen minimal flash and mold lines. (all dollar amounts are US amounts)

Ive been a GW fanatic untill recent, but I care not to support that cause anymore.

Yes, PP's mini are a slightly larger scale - that does not mean they perform differently on the table, right? All it really does is making them more expensive, which was kind of the poster's point?

As to prices, you seem to forget that
1) Armies varies a great deal in price, since PP has the politic of customers paying the actual and individual price for the product, not like GW who has decided that all factions pay more or less the same across the board. I can tell you that there is a world of monetary difference between playing Trollbloods and Legion of Everblight! I pay almost double the price for my basic troops (Kriel Warriors) as opposed to LoE troops like Blighted Archers - and don't get me started on cavalry! :mad:
2) PP's games are not as standartized as GW's as to the basic composition of the army. That means that a lot of army builds are really, really more expensive than the others in Hordes/Warmachine, as there are no connection between price and points in WM/Hordes. This is not bas as such, but it means there are some cheapish troops which are hideously expensive in the real world.
3) Not all of us live in the US, you know? You might pay those prices you mention - I most certainly does not! Since PP does not have production facilities in Europe, their products have become insanely expensive here. Therefore, from my POV, GW is relatively inexpensive. I laughed heartily when some posters went ballistic over the price of the new VC Blood Knights, endlessly ranting about GW pruces. Try playing Trollblods and go buy some Longriders, then come back and claim that GW is outrageously expensive :rolleyes:

devolutionary
22-02-2008, 08:43
First things first, PP models are 30mm to GW's 28mm.

With over 5000pts combined across three PP armies, I can happily say that Vlad, Mechanithralls, Kayazy, Deneghra, Praetorians, Venators, etc are all smaller than a single Vostroyan sergeant by volume of metal, looking at the models I have them on my desk. 30mm? That's wonderful. Utterly irrelevant to the fact that I get less volume in most PP models than I do in GW models, and with PP I don't get any options whatsoever. Absolutely 0 customisability unless I wanna spend hours doing a metal conversion, because it is a game that is built around a tournament scene.


Second, the most expensive metal infantry for say, Cygnar are 31$ for Six, and this is on the expensive side, most units of 6 cost 20$, with 6-8$ for 2 more tropers to fill out. Heavy infantry (man-o-wars, khador) are 60$ for 5 models made of metal, bigger than terminators.

Wouldn't know about your costs, I spend New Zealand dollars, and I'm not talking about metal compared to metal here, I'm talking ranges compared to ranges. I tend to use a lot of plastic in my armies, since I play with core/troops based force.

I would point out that 4 Cataphracts cost me $110. 5 Terminators cost me $75. For the cost of 5 Cataphracts, I can almost afford a Battleforce or Batallion.


I've bought 200$ of PP models this week and seen minimal flash and mold lines.

You either can't play Cryx then or you were very lucky, because every damn model, up to and including Bane Knights and Soulhunters, is loaded to the gills with flash and mould lines. Whereas my entirely metal Imperial Guard army? Yeah there's some, but it's not in stupid places. Hell, I have a McThrall I've had for 3 years that I still haven't attempted to clean, I'm that annoyed by the lines. And then there's my Skorne beasts. And Helljacks. Don't forget the Behemoth either, that things a pig.


Ive been a GW fanatic untill recent, but I care not to support that cause anymore.

Congrats. Don't make the same mistake with another company.

I'm happy your experiences have been great with PP, that's excellent and all that. But I had 12 mispacks in 12 months. I've had more drama and annoyance with PP models in three years than I've had with GW models in a dozen. They have done NOTHING to stop me playing GW games. Quite the opposite, at a time when I was happy to move well away from GW, they went and pulled a whole lot of utter crap that pretty much made me neutral in these precocious little system wars.

noneedforaname
22-02-2008, 08:52
it makes me laugh when people complain about GW prices after all what about thigs like bottled water that costs £4 a litre, people dont complain about that when tap water and a filter are a damn site cheaper.

Also how many of you complain about the price rise of coca-cola?

when 500ml bottles where first released they used to cost 50p, now they cost £1.09 at most retailers. Thats approx. a 120% price rise.

In the same period of time a box of wfb plastic orc boyz went from £15 to £18, a whole 20% price rise, anyone see a difference here.

If we applied the same price rise as abottle of coca-cola a box of wfb orc boyz would cost approx. £33.

So which companies price rises are worse GW or Coca-cola?

Also lots of models that previously where in metal that where converted to plastic in general halved there prices, thats right instead of raising prices they where reducing them.

5 pistoliers where £30 now they are £12, thats a 110% reduction.

10 black orcs plus full command whould have cost you £25.50 now £15 thats a reduction of approx. 40%

even some metals have come down in price, eldar aspects when they where reboxed essentaily meant you got the exarch free in every box.

s for complaining about bits orders, there is a whole new mail order website being tested ready to come online where you will be able to order bits again.

People try doing a little research before you have a hissy fit about prices.

Osbad
22-02-2008, 09:26
stuff

BUt you are missing the point. The fact of the matter is that a complaint about prices (at least to the extent of posting about it on Warseer) shows that the individual CARES. Personally I couldn't care less about the price of Coca-cola as its just a soft drink. I happen to quite like it, but if its too expensive I'll just drink something cheaper.

Toy soldiers on the other hand are something I care about and have the potential to generate desire in large quantities. The toy soldier hobby is also something I have invested huge amounts of my time and energy in, so when someone's decision adversely affects my enjoyment of that hobby, hell I'll whinge!

Sure it doesn't achieve anything directly, but just sharing the pain and hearing the reverberations from others similarly affected is catharsis enough!

Oh, and per-lease don't give me that guff about I should be grateful for their swapping lead for plastic and thereby reducing the price per model of certain troops. That's just a non-starter of an argument. Lead models have a quality in and of themselves and are worth more - they are tougher and feel nicer and retain their value better than plastics. So naturally they should be priced higher. That's an unfair comparison. Its like saying a car dealership that used to stock BMWs now stocks Fords. Sure the unit price has gone down, but so has the quality so value for money hasn't necessarily improved.

I suggest you get off your high horse, before you complain about "hissy fits".

If it wasn't for the constant whingin about prices Warseer and many other GW-related forums would be completely dead! :)

Shamfrit
22-02-2008, 09:38
I have to admit, I currently buy GW models for O&G and Skaven, because nobody has anything on the current ranges, but, I am a little fussy when it comes to my Empire Army, which I have decided to build a large chunk with the Ring of Rule range, which is the same dress, style, weaponry etc, only it has say, 10% less detail, which is still detailed enough, 2 battle mages down, and two large boxes of multi-part 'state troops' to go, and I've saved myself a packet, and now I have to buy some GW to buff up.

I think GW is so worth the expense because of quality it's indistinguishable if you buy regular but small, a box a week or fortnight etc. Not to mention, using an entire army (if this is possible) with another range, excludes you from tournaments, gets snide comments from other players, and makes playing games incredibly complicated because your opponent has to keep going 'what's this...oh, yeah, what's that?'

God, the myth about nerd snobbery is true...Lol.

Patriarch
22-02-2008, 10:41
Not to mention, using an entire army (if this is possible) with another range, excludes you from tournaments, gets snide comments from other players, and makes playing games incredibly complicated because your opponent has to keep going 'what's this...oh, yeah, what's that?'


This? This is my proxy minotaur regiment. And this? This wad of cash is what I saved by not buying it from GW *slap opponent with it*.

Pokpoko
22-02-2008, 11:20
Try playing Trollblods and go buy some Longriders, then come back and claim that GW is outrageously expensive aren't they the size of rhinoxen rather than cavalary tho? i mean,they are bisons, in gw's nomenclature-big-target beast rather than cavalry.

as there are no connection between price and points in WM/Hordes. This is not bas as suchit's not bad at all. it's great. nothing irks me more than the stupid "yes,it is in fact just a infantry model with some more bits added,but we'r gonna charge you like it's made from depleted uranium, since it's a HERO":rolleyes:
infinity minis are a bit on the expensive side individually,yes. but i pay exactly the same price for a special character, and a normal guy of the same size for example.

anyway, PP is actually bad example really,the prices are just as ridicoulus as the GW's,except maybe a bit more justifiable as they'r proper,honest metal.

OrlyggJafnakol
22-02-2008, 12:23
I buy to paint. I love a decent miniature and GW minis just do it for me! I must admit that the terrible cartoon sculpts of the mid to late 90s and beyond let me into the arms of Harlequin's Dr Who range. But with the quality (IMO) of the latest VC and Chaos releases (skeletons and daemons particularly) GW are going to be seeing a fair amount of my money, even if I am buying to store and the kits won't actually get worked on for a while.

Templar Ben
22-02-2008, 13:45
it makes me laugh when people complain about GW prices after all what about thigs like bottled water that costs £4 a litre, people dont complain about that when tap water and a filter are a damn site cheaper.

People do complain about bottled water. In fact, I can't tell you how many comic routines I have seen about that same thing.


Also how many of you complain about the price rise of coca-cola?

I do not.


when 500ml bottles where first released they used to cost 50p, now they cost £1.09 at most retailers. Thats approx. a 120% price rise.

So you are saying that since they had a market penetration price they should be locked in?


In the same period of time a box of wfb plastic orc boyz went from £15 to £18, a whole 20% price rise, anyone see a difference here.

Yes one is a company that prices according to the local conditions.


If we applied the same price rise as abottle of coca-cola a box of wfb orc boyz would cost approx. £33.

Wow. So the fact that they are selling different products in different markets shouldn't have any impact.


So which companies price rises are worse GW or Coca-cola?

Define worse.

Not that it matters but a 2 liter bottle of coke was $.99 in 1994. Three days ago a 2 liter bottle of coke was $1.25. That is the thing about prices. Which is why I won't bother going into the pricing examples you wrote


as for complaining about bits orders, there is a whole new mail order website being tested ready to come online where you will be able to order bits again.

I think the complaint there is that people had that for so long and now they don't.


People try doing a little research before you have a hissy fit about prices.

Or try to not compare apples to space stations.


I think GW is so worth the expense because of quality it's indistinguishable if you buy regular but small, a box a week or fortnight etc. Not to mention, using an entire army (if this is possible) with another range, excludes you from tournaments, gets snide comments from other players, and makes playing games incredibly complicated because your opponent has to keep going 'what's this...oh, yeah, what's that?'

It only excludes you from GW run tournaments. That is one reason they charge what they do. PP no doubt does the same. You are what is known as a "captive market" in that you must use their products and it is not uncommon. Many manufacturers say you must have a certified part installed by a certified dealer or you will void your warranty for instance.

I can't imagine a player giving me a snide comment but then again there are some serious elitists that demand opponents paint minis so I would not be shocked to learn of people on here doing the same.

It would be less complicated then proxy which happens much more often. It would not be much different then using Necromunda gangers mixed in to the units.

Crazy Harborc
23-02-2008, 01:15
I really do not understand why the price of milk, or golf clubs or clothing or a auto or whatever is a good price comparison to miniatures/toy soldiers.

Comparing prices between different wargaming minies from wherever, in whatever scale is well, much more relevent.

Stella Cadente
23-02-2008, 10:04
I'd probably stop using GW minis because GW's sculpting has gone to the dogs, the new vampire counts are aweful, the Company masters are aweful, well pretty much everything they sculpt these days suck

The boyz
23-02-2008, 10:42
I still buy and use GW miniatures from GW, but mainly just stuff from their SG range. Although, I do get a fair bit of ebay when I can.

When it comes to my main armies for WFB (Dwarfs & Skaven), I tend to get alot of the stuff that I need, cheaper of ebay or other online retailers.

For my Empire army, when I eventually get round to finishing it. I plan on buying a fair amount of stufff from Wargames Foundry. I'm not a big fan of some the latest Empire range and the whole £12 for 10 plastic models, is a very big turn off for me.

In the forseeable future, I will still be using GW miniatures. Just some of my planned armies will rely alot more on miniatures sourced, from other various companies.

gjnoronh
23-02-2008, 23:22
I really do not understand why the price of milk, or golf clubs or clothing or a auto or whatever is a good price comparison to miniatures/toy soldiers.

Comparing prices between different wargaming minies from wherever, in whatever scale is well, much more relevent.

While I agree comparing mini prices is more relevant - there's a good reason to look at changes in prices of minis over time compared to other goods we buy all the time.

They provide a real life comparison to what inflation is doing to the purchasing power of our dollar/pound/peso over time.

It's also amazing how folks can say "those bastards at GW are ripping us off by rising prices by X amount" but ignore the fact that our manufacturers of soft drinks / fast food / cars or whatever have raised prices by teh same amount in the same time.

One industry (miniature makers) are soulless bastards for raising the price and the other is just business as usual that we dont' take notice of?

Hrafn
25-02-2008, 14:46
aren't they the size of rhinoxen rather than cavalary tho? i mean,they are bisons, in gw's nomenclature-big-target beast rather than cavalry..

I believe they are somewhere in between. But that has nothing to do with my point. I realize they are more expensive because there are more metal in them. My point is that they are of the troop type "cavalry" and that they fulfill a similiar role to other faction's cavalry - but are up almost 100% more expensive. Like all TB minis, really - and that is what I don't like. I don't like that one faction pays a great deal more for core troops than others. A player should not be punished because they like one faction more than another.


it's not bad at all. it's great. nothing irks me more than the stupid "yes,it is in fact just a infantry model with some more bits added,but we'r gonna charge you like it's made from depleted uranium, since it's a HERO":rolleyes:..

We can't really disagree on that. Except that this is more or less what PP are doing as well for Solos/Warcasters, so no points for them on that account. Besides, I was moaning the difference with troops, not with heroes. Yes, GW do have some core troops which a mindnumbingly expensive (Wraithguard for instance), but you can always get acceptable alternatives for much cheaper. That is not the case with PP.


anyway, PP is actually bad example really,the prices are just as ridicoulus as the GW's,except maybe a bit more justifiable as they'r proper,honest metal.

If you believe that PP prices are just as ridicolous as GW, why are they are bad example :confused:

Now, I just need to state that I don't hate PP in any way. I am a great fan of their product and enjoys especially Hordes a great deal. I am just very tired of the proliferation of the myth that GW is horridly more expensive than their direct competitors. That, and because I am very annoyed at the insane price raises on the awesome PP products :mad:

Crazy Harborc
26-02-2008, 01:45
$70(USD), before sales taxes were added to the total, used to buy two plastic boxes of 20 in each of infantry....

There are companies out there that $60(USD) plus taxes or shipping will get you 60 foot or 20 cav....all metal, 25mm.

Check out what's out there......non-GW plastic and or metal, 25/28mm, non-out of scale bodyparts and or weapons. Some prices are more, others the same, many, many are less. Quality will vary too.

GW and the couple of companies that are all after GW's target market are only a part, a small part of what's available for the hobby of wargaming.

Hrafn
26-02-2008, 08:16
$70(USD), before sales taxes were added to the total, used to buy two plastic boxes of 20 in each of infantry....

There are companies out there that $60(USD) plus taxes or shipping will get you 60 foot or 20 cav....all metal, 25mm.

Check out what's out there......non-GW plastic and or metal, 25/28mm, non-out of scale bodyparts and or weapons. Some prices are more, others the same, many, many are less. Quality will vary too.

GW and the couple of companies that are all after GW's target market are only a part, a small part of what's available for the hobby of wargaming.

Could you give us some examples (links)? It's a bit hard to discuss this without having a reference...

Pokpoko
26-02-2008, 11:02
I don't like that one faction pays a great deal more for core troops than others. A player should not be punished because they like one faction more than another.khem...youd said it yourself-the models are by a good deal larger than from the rest of the armies. it's pretty natural they cost more:confused:
i'd be extremly irked if i had to pay for the wolf riders the same as for bison cavalary twice or thrice the size...like i was paying for materials that aren't on
the models...plus, with all respect, you knew it when you started,no?

Except that this is more or less what PP are doing as well for Solos/Warcasters, so no points for them on that account.maybe. i'v sold out my hordes stuff after a month or so as it was boring and too slow. quite possibly,and it's a bad practice regardless of fo doez it.

If you believe that PP prices are just as ridicolous as GW, why are they are bad example erm,wasn't the beggining of this particular discussion that other companies actually come cheaper than Great Watchshop?

Hrafn
26-02-2008, 11:28
khem...youd said it yourself-the models are by a good deal larger than from the rest of the armies. it's pretty natural they cost more:confused:?

Define "natural" for me, will you? Going by the same logic, the actual cost of sculpting would have to be factored in the cost of each model so that no one pays "unfairly" for their minis. Some minis take longer than other to sculpt, so these should be more expensive? Does this sound bizarre? Well, it's part tof the cost of a given mini, so could just as easily be incorporated into the price. From this POV, I can't see why the minor material cost is more "natural" than production time..


i'd be extremly irked if i had to pay for the wolf riders the same as for bison cavalary twice or thrice the size...like i was paying for materials that aren't on
the models...plus, with all respect, you knew it when you started,no?

So, the main objection you have is that you don't want to pay more for your minis? As long as you get what you want, screw other players? Even if I accepted that viewpoint, it contains an inherent paradox, since PP consumers already share some costs equally, ie. the development process.
On another note, there is the point that this policy is not that clever for the company as a whole, since it may cause an imbalance in the spread of factions and how they are composed. In a game with 4 (or 8-10 including WM) factions, cookie-cutter armies is not what you need.


...plus, with all respect, you knew it when you started,no?

Err..no. As a matter of fact, I did not. Neither did other Hordes players, since PP has a rolling release schedule which does not neccesarily reveal prices from the set go. For instance, we did not know of the price of all the cavalry when Evolution was released. That said, I am certainly not implying that PP is trying to deceive its customers. Just that you comment here is not entirely correct.
Besides, I don't share your basic sentiment here. I do not pick my army after what is cheapest moneywise. Nor do I think that should really be the main reason for picking a faction in any game. Sure, price can easily be a concern, but not the main reason. I am certain that few players pick their forces according to price, but rather from impressions on style, minis and feel. Which is as it should be, since such an emotional connection will form a much stronger bond than one based purely on $$. This type of connection should also be desirable for the company, as it make the chance of retention much bigger - and that is yet another reason for a mini company to adopt a more level pricing policy!

mrtn
26-02-2008, 14:16
Could you give us some examples (links)? It's a bit hard to discuss this without having a reference...

Here (https://www.connectstores.com/ralpartha/sp_37311.html) is just one example; this minotaur costs £1.50. It's a bit smaller than the GW ones, and neither of them would win any beauty contest. The Ral Partha one has a silly g-string, but it actually looks somewhat like a humanoid bull, and not a humanoid pig, like the GW one does. :wtf:
GW charges £12 for a minotaur, so you could get two units of four each from Ral Partha, or just one mino from GW.

t-tauri
26-02-2008, 17:44
Here (https://www.connectstores.com/ralpartha/sp_37311.html) is just one example; this minotaur costs £1.50. It's a bit smaller than the GW ones, and neither of them would win any beauty contest. The Ral Partha one has a silly g-string, but it actually looks somewhat like a humanoid bull, and not a humanoid pig, like the GW one does. :wtf:
GW charges £12 for a minotaur, so you could get two units of four each from Ral Partha, or just one mino from GW.
That's from a range which was tanked years ago. I like RP Europe but all they do is spin ancient (decade old?) moulds. They don't invest in much new product or bring out new ranges. The sculpting/design cost on that minotaur and the mould have long since been paid off.

You're paying for little more than the cost of the metal and the caster's time. It might not even be blistered if you buy it mail order. Hence they make a profit at £1.50. I know some GW figures are almost as old but at least there are new products from GW.

hallowed_are_the_ori
27-02-2008, 01:18
I still buy them, off ebay, so it's cheaper. I like GW models, better than some of the dogsh*t that comes out from other companies. All hobbies are expensive (except scab collecting or collecting paperclips) so i guess i fyou like the hobby you can always find ways to lower the cost slightly.


Plus, GW needs to make a profit, it's not like they'll wanna just give us the models for free :)

Crazy Harborc
27-02-2008, 01:47
Could you give us some examples (links)? It's a bit hard to discuss this without having a reference...

The minies I mentioned came today.....VERY good detail, very little flash. That is true in all four bags.;)

Old Glory Miniatures - Welcome to our site! (http://www.oldgloryminiatures.com)

Um, I am in my second year of belonging to OG's discount deal. THAT makes these minies way, way cheaper than GW's

grickherder
27-02-2008, 03:17
The minies I mentioned came today.....VERY good detail, very little flash. That is true in all four bags.;)

Old Glory Miniatures - Welcome to our site! (http://www.oldgloryminiatures.com)

Um, I am in my second year of belonging to OG's discount deal. THAT makes these minies way, way cheaper than GW's

You don't even need to be part of their discount club. Most of their stuff is 30 metal figures for $30. $1 per metal figure!

As for quality, I'd describe Old Glory as "perfectly fine." They're certainly not amazing, but they look great painted up and are excellent value for the money. I love their late Medieval and Renaissance stuff (Empire army) as well as their Victorian/Colonial stuff. Made a Imperial Guard army out of Zulu Wars redcoats some years back. Gatling guns for heavy bolters, 7 pounders for lascannons, simple conversions for special weapons, etc.,.

Now if you're building a few armies, $50 a year membership gets you those metal figures for 60 cents a piece. I don't know the last time one could get metal miniatures for 60 cents a piece from GW or anyone else.

That said, I can't wait for Wargames Factory's 28mm plastic Romans made from the same type of plastic that GW uses. 48 of them for $30/15GBP? Yes please!

Hrafn
27-02-2008, 07:39
@Crazy Harborc & mrtn
Thanks for the links. However, I must confess that I still stand by my original points; The Ral Partha Minotaur is OK, but damn, the ogres and trolls are ugly :eek: They are very reminiscent of the style produced by Citadel in the late 80's, except that IMHO the Ogres in particular are far below that standart. Whether you like the style or not is of course a personal opinion, but I think it make them look severely dated. Judging from the pics, the detail work also seem bad, don't know whether it's the casting or the sculpt, but IMO that also make the impression of lower quality product. Which really is fair, considering the price difference between these and GW, PP, Rackham and Reaper.
As to Old Glory, I must admit that my personal experience with them are bad. I have painted quite a lot of their WW2 minis, and these are not very good compared to competitors like Black Tree and Bolt Action. The WW2 minis sport static poses, lack of detail and badly sculpted elements, eg. faces. But again, you get what you pay for, and if I want some bodies to fill out my WW2 army, they do nicely.

Lastly, I should add that I am very much a modeller and painter, and its important to me that my armies look good. I'd rather pay more for the individual mini and be content seeing them on the tabletop, rather than getting more minis which will be stick out like a sore thumb each time I use them. As I really don't care how long it takes to finish an army, time is not of essence to me. But all this is my personal preferences, and if other people feel otherwise, be my guest. I won't condemn anyone for using minis of their choice, but to me it makes a difference...

yabbadabba
27-02-2008, 10:08
I don't know if anyone has posted this but here goes ... ...

A tip from some ancient's friends of mine. Use nice miniatures in the front ranks, and possible the side files. Use cheap, not so nice stuff in the middle. Why?

It gives you units that look good, have an individual feel and keeps the costs down.

For instance my Greek army has Foundry (very nice, very expensive) and Black Tree (ok, but cheap through a sale) models in it with no overall reduction in the quality of looks. Doesn't help 40K too much I know.

Might help, I don't know.

Osbad
27-02-2008, 12:13
I don't know if anyone has posted this but here goes ... ...

A tip from some ancient's friends of mine. Use nice miniatures in the front ranks, and possible the side files. Use cheap, not so nice stuff in the middle. Why?

It gives you units that look good, have an individual feel and keeps the costs down.

Taking that to its logical extreme I actually saw a fellow with an Orc & Goblin army where the units were standard models on the front, back and sides, but the centre units were just represented by a block of wood, cut to the right height and painted black with Orc heads stuck on the top. It looked surprisingly good as it happened. Not nearly so dire as one would expect from the description I'd just given as mainly the block was hidden in shadow. I wish I'd taken a picture at the time as I've never seen it again.

To be honest, this goes to the root of one of the problems I have with WFB - I just can't be bothered to go to a load of effort to paint up a unit of 40 models when a) most of them aren't visible, and b) most of them are only there to give the unit a rank bonus and they play no active part in the game other than to present a vulnerable flank for charging against! But that's a whole other rant...

mrtn
27-02-2008, 16:01
@t-tauri: I'm sure GWs minos have paid off too, and those still cost 8 times as much, and are just as ugly.
The RP mino comes blistered, btw.

@Hrafn: In no way did I imply that all those Ral Partha minis are good, in fact GWs ogres are much better (and much cheaper than minos). But when you compare ugly unit lines to each other then I think price plays a rôle, especially if the difference is so big.

Pokpoko
27-02-2008, 17:13
Going by the same logic, the actual cost of sculpting would have to be factored in the cost of each model so that no one pays "unfairly" for their minis. Some minis take longer than other to sculpt, so these should be more expensive? Does this sound bizarre?not at all bizarre. i don't know,but i guess sculptor payment is based at least partially on the sculpting quality,so it's already factored in the price(i think, i might as well be 100% wrong though.)

So, the main objection you have is that you don't want to pay more for your minis?and you don't? it's hardly sensible to be charging the same for a huge model as for a small one,even if they are both troops. i can't think of any company that does that.even if you pay the same(as in GW's case of regiment boxes),you get far less models-6 orges to 20 humans for eg.

as for imbalances-as i say, i haven't played the game long,but don't trollkin units cost more than "normal" sized ones in points as well as in cash?so you don't need to buy as many as the other players?(not to mention that warbeasts actually cost very simmiliarly iirc,regardless of the race allegiance)

i'm sorry,but i don;t see the huge injustice of it. we might argue if the actual price PP gave the model in question is right,but only that. i'm not really angry at CB for releasing a new TAG model that costs some 50% more than the last one as it's twice as massive, despite not knowing that it'd be more expensive than the first models.
then again, i think PP's pricing is ridicoulos as a whole,especially as you go past the starter and two blisters needed for 500pts.

Hrafn
27-02-2008, 20:39
@Hrafn: In no way did I imply that all those Ral Partha minis are good, in fact GWs ogres are much better (and much cheaper than minos). But when you compare ugly unit lines to each other then I think price plays a rôle, especially if the difference is so big.

Can't disagree on that one..


not at all bizarre. i don't know,but i guess sculptor payment is based at least partially on the sculpting quality,so it's already factored in the price(i think, i might as well be 100% wrong though.)
and you don't? it's hardly sensible to be charging the same for a huge model as for a small one,even if they are both troops. i can't think of any company that does that.even if you pay the same(as in GW's case of regiment boxes),you get far less models-6 orges to 20 humans for eg..

My point was exactly that sculpting IS included in the price, and that it's apparently evenly distributed across the line. Whether that is "sensible" and material cost is not, depends entirely on your perception of sensible.
As to your other point, I must add that I don't advocate the same prices for individual models within a given mini line, regardless of size. That would indeed be without sense. What I am trying to get across is that the units which form the core of an army should be equally accesible. This is where points value comes in. In your example, the Ogre unit is points-wise roughly the same as the humans. Which is also exactly what GW is doing with their boxed sets of core troops. So, to counter your argument about which company does that - the answer is that you can think of GW :p


as for imbalances-as i say, i haven't played the game long,but don't trollkin units cost more than "normal" sized ones in points as well as in cash?so you don't need to buy as many as the other players?(not to mention that warbeasts actually cost very simmiliarly iirc,regardless of the race allegiance)

Nope. They don't. In fact, Kriel Warriors is among the cheapest troops points-wise, but are among the most expensive minis money-wise! The irony is that TB Champions is costed money-wise at 3/4 of Kriel Warriors, but cost double that in points:eyebrows:


i'm sorry,but i don;t see the huge injustice of it. we might argue if the actual price PP gave the model in question is right,but only that. i'm not really angry at CB for releasing a new TAG model that costs some 50% more than the last one as it's twice as massive, despite not knowing that it'd be more expensive than the first models.
then again, i think PP's pricing is ridicoulos as a whole,especially as you go past the starter and two blisters needed for 500pts.

No "huge injustice" as such. I'd rather term it an annoyance. Of course you are right that I can't really be surprised angry at the price of unreleased minis, my comment was mostly aimed at your objections about knowing prices beforehand.
But at least we can agree that PP's pricing is insane ;) Really a pity, since I adore many of those minis..

Which, BTW, lends to those kinds of surrealistic moments when browsing Warseer and getting drowned in angry shouts at GW's prices. From my POV, GW is a cheap(er) alternative :eek:

Pokpoko
27-02-2008, 21:52
Which, BTW, lends to those kinds of surrealistic moments when browsing Warseer and getting drowned in angry shouts at GW's prices. From my POV, GW is a cheap(er) alternative now,now,this i think is dependant on the army list-if you go monster-heavy and not pass 500pts it's very reasonable. infantry-heavy army is on par with GW normal list for 1500 in 40k i guess,while a big 1000 infantry horde/machine is downright insane in pricing:angel:

Nope. They don't. In fact, Kriel Warriors is among the cheapest troops points-wise, but are among the most expensive minis money-wise! The irony is that TB Champions is costed money-wise at 3/4 of Kriel Warriors, but cost double that in points
then the old man was right,the gods ARE crazy:eek::D

Hrafn
28-02-2008, 07:42
now,now,this i think is dependant on the army list-if you go monster-heavy and not pass 500pts it's very reasonable. infantry-heavy army is on par with GW normal list for 1500 in 40k i guess,while a big 1000 infantry horde/machine is downright insane in pricing

True. Which is really a difference between GW and PP. Hordes/Warmachine can be much cheaper than comparative GW lists, but they can just as easily be horridly more expensive.

But the discussion as to what company are more expensive army-wise is worth an entire thread in its own. And I believe we have seen plenty of (unresolved) threads on that subject, so I'll leave that for now :)



then the old man was right,the gods ARE crazy:eek::D

Indeed :D

Demise Of Sanity
28-02-2008, 15:55
I nkow wheny uo look at liek £18 for a squad or summat like that but i did a Railway project a few month back and the prices of some of the Model railway company's prices are ridiculous liek £15 for 4 small people.

Gussy
21-03-2008, 20:34
I haven't and I can't...at least until I find something else to enjoy. I have OCD. :)

Auzu
21-03-2008, 22:14
Yes I have, nor really related to price but more style as I can't get the old empire metal handgunners anymore since they gutted there mailorder department I will have to buy from Wargames foundry instead.

Putty
22-03-2008, 04:43
my purchases of GW products have plateau-ed alot.

my latest purchases will be another few boxes of marauders for my Storm of Chaos list.

after that is done, maybe the new Mortals of Chaos book and thats it.

I use vallejo paints and thats it.

I buy GW miniatures out of need nowadays rather than wants.