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wizuriel
17-02-2008, 16:18
So looking over the US GT rules it appears that DOW and Chaos Dwarf armies are now illegal to use :(. No love for the PDF folk huh

http://gt.us.games-workshop.com/2008/gt_promo/rules_wh.htm

ChrisAsmadi
17-02-2008, 19:35
That's stupid and lame.

Jack of Blades
17-02-2008, 20:12
GT is stupid and lame.

DontMessWithHashut
19-02-2008, 15:44
Im glad about the DoW thing, just I hate the fact they ban the CD.

Reason for hating DoW: My friend and my other friend were playing a 500pt warband ogres VS vampire counts. The ogre player had a regular list, but the VC player had minimum core and the rest of his points were put into the armoured orcs with crossbows, he had at least 30. Safe to say the ogre guy got owned, we checked the warband rules we were using and turns out you arent allowed to use DoW. Ever since then I've been bitter towards them, if you cannot win with your own army then to bad for you, learn.

Above that, the VC guy did not have the proper rules for the orcs, making it up as he goes along...

wizuriel
19-02-2008, 15:49
Im glad about the DoW thing, just I hate the fact they ban the CD.

Reason for hating DoW: My friend and my other friend were playing a 500pt warband ogres VS vampire counts. The ogre player had a regular list, but the VC player had minimum core and the rest of his points were put into the armoured orcs with crossbows, he had at least 30. Safe to say the ogre guy got owned, we checked the warband rules we were using and turns out you arent allowed to use DoW. Ever since then I've been bitter towards them, if you cannot win with your own army then to bad for you, learn.

Above that, the VC guy did not have the proper rules for the orcs, making it up as he goes along...

I don't think the rules say you can't use DOW in your army, you just can't field an entire DOW army

Coragus
19-02-2008, 15:56
GT is stupid and lame.

GT might be stupid and lame, but local tournaments take their cues from them. I've already seen notices for tournaments that are falling into lock step with the approved GT lists. If GW won't support armies for the GT, then their retailers won't either.

ZeroTwentythree
19-02-2008, 16:05
Im glad about the DoW thing, just I hate the fact they ban the CD.

Reason for hating DoW: My friend and my other friend were playing a 500pt warband ogres VS vampire counts. The ogre player had a regular list, but the VC player had minimum core and the rest of his points were put into the armoured orcs with crossbows, he had at least 30. Safe to say the ogre guy got owned, we checked the warband rules we were using and turns out you arent allowed to use DoW. Ever since then I've been bitter towards them, if you cannot win with your own army then to bad for you, learn.

Above that, the VC guy did not have the proper rules for the orcs, making it up as he goes along...



I once played an ogre player (before I was familiar with the army) who totally misused the gut magic, the bull charge (no min. charge distance) and didn't roll to hit with his leadbelchers. Therefore I would be glad if they banned ogres.

Someone cheats, therefore everyone should be penalized. Just following the same logic.



if you cannot win with your own army then to bad for you, learn.

So are you that is the only reason people take DoW?





GT might be stupid and lame, but local tournaments take their cues from them. I've already seen notices for tournaments that are falling into lock step with the approved GT lists. If GW won't support armies for the GT, then their retailers won't either.


And beyond that, people seem to be obsessed with "official"-ness of everything, and even friendly games people are falling in step with the GT rules too. :(

Wargamejunkie
19-02-2008, 16:44
Well, I like the more official aspect of things.

Not a fan of banning the armies, but if you do any traveling you will appreciate going into a game store and knowing they play the same rules as you.

I might be upset if I actually had my beasts army built in time.

Feefait
19-02-2008, 21:17
While I do agree that it is nice to have an "official" house rule set it is also nice to see somethign different once in a while. Using GT rules everywhere means aslo seeing the same armies and compositions everywhere as people wnat to compete in an offical tourny.
Yes conversions and alt lists can be used at home or against friends, but when you spend as much time on some of these as some people do you hate to not be able to show them off to everyone. I think it squashes some creativity and railroads people into a set "follow or else" mentality.

I can see where DoW can get banned as they can be abused. Myself I love the Skink cold one riders in my lizardman list. Nothing overly powerful, but fun to play. But when it comes to DoW that thought seems to be the exception, or at least the leats publicized.

For CD 2 things can be read into it. Either they are just saying screw it we are tired of pretending we care bout them, or they have something new and exciting (lol!) planned fo rthem and don't want them further promoted in their current form. More then likely they just don't want to hear people bitch about facing an army they never even knew was legal.

DontMessWithHashut
20-02-2008, 00:04
I don't think the rules say you can't use DOW in your army, you just can't field an entire DOW army

I am 90% sure that in warband games you are not allowed DoW


I once played an ogre player (before I was familiar with the army) who totally misused the gut magic, the bull charge (no min. charge distance) and didn't roll to hit with his leadbelchers. Therefore I would be glad if they banned ogres.

Someone cheats, therefore everyone should be penalized. Just following the same logic.

If you want to ban OK in your gaming group go right ahead, I would like to mention that I am not the only one in our local gaming group that feels this way about DoW





So are you that is the only reason people take DoW?


No, some people take it for fluff and army theme, but when your only excuse is: My army has no shooting, how am I supposed to win?

This is my personal experience, I realise others may not share the same view.

txamil
20-02-2008, 02:24
How many CD players were in the US GT last year? Anyone know?

ZeroTwentythree
20-02-2008, 14:39
I once played an ogre player (before I was familiar with the army) who totally misused the gut magic, the bull charge (no min. charge distance) and didn't roll to hit with his leadbelchers. Therefore I would be glad if they banned ogres.

Someone cheats, therefore everyone should be penalized. Just following the same logic.


If you want to ban OK in your gaming group go right ahead, I would like to mention that I am not the only one in our local gaming group that feels this way about DoW



So to review the updated logic... it's ok because you and other people in your gaming group feel that if someone cheats with an army it should be banned in official events.








So are you that is the only reason people take DoW?


No, some people take it for fluff and army theme, but when your only excuse is: My army has no shooting, how am I supposed to win?

This is my personal experience, I realise others may not share the same view.


So once again, just reviewing... because some people "misuse" an army, it should be banned people who don't "misuse" the army should suffer.

Warsmith Strader
20-02-2008, 14:54
To quote Nelson-"HA HA!" to the appendix lists, but I did notice that the daemon legions book will be valid for the GT, so I guess that makes daemon legion from hordes of chaos illegal?

So its Iron Guts for my Chaos Mortal army after all.

DontMessWithHashut
20-02-2008, 15:32
So to review the updated logic... it's ok because you and other people in your gaming group feel that if someone cheats with an army it should be banned in official events.


No, maybe you did not relise that I am not the one making the decisions for the GT. I was simply stating the fact that I am okay with them banning DoW in the GT because: insert life experience here.



So once again, just reviewing... because some people "misuse" an army, it should be banned people who don't "misuse" the army should suffer.

Pure DoW armies should not be banned, only when using them with other armies, plain and simple. We voted as a group to ban it in our gaming circle, everyone was okay with banning them, so pretty much for us: one person ruined it for all, because it was unfun playing/watching that match.

Coragus
20-02-2008, 18:11
How many CD players were in the US GT last year? Anyone know?

There was one CD player at the Baltimore GT and one at the Las Vagas GT. There was not one at the Chicago GT. In total for the years 2005 throught 2007, there were 5 CD players, out of 708 total players.

Unfortunately, the three-year total does not include the Minneapolis GT, because that data on the GW site points to the Seattle result, so what you're seeing is the total of 7 GTs; three in 2007, one in 2006, and three in 2005.

Coragus
20-02-2008, 18:19
I did notice that the daemon legions book will be valid for the GT, so I guess that makes daemon legion from hordes of chaos illegal?

Not to be contradictory, but look again at the GW site. The Daemonic Legions is listed as a legal army for 40K, but NOT for Fantasy.

See this: http://gt.us.games-workshop.com/2008/gt_promo/rules_wh.htm

This despite the fact that in the March White Dwarf, GW announced that they are launching DL for both systems in May. I suspect that this is an oversight and that DL will end up being added.

Ethlorien
20-02-2008, 18:26
That's a shame. While I don't play either (though I am working on a DoW army), I always find it a bit lame to exclude a reasonable choice for an army. There are people out there (I don't know how many) that take the time to collect and paint these armies and I feel bad for them when they are told 'your army is not allowed'. Oh well.

Weemo
20-02-2008, 18:27
Someone cheats, therefore everyone should be penalized. Just following the same logic. Zerotwnety three

No offence or anything but i think that, that is a bad logic, it goes back to primary school where teachers keep the whole class in for a select few's behavior. Peer pressure rarely works on these individuals even up to adulthood, most of these culprits simply dont care otherwise they wouldnt be commting the act in the first place.

If the GT organisers did this then many people would be more angry at the organsisers for making a bad decision than the culprit. If someone cheats then they should be either penalized or shown the corrrect rules and the situation be rectified (i.e in fantasy).

Sorry for the rant but these logics reallly touch a nerve nothing personal

intellectawe
20-02-2008, 18:28
That is a shame....

The battle is lost... Good thing I sold my CD off last month.... So for me, so dies another great line..... Hopefully, just for now...

txamil
20-02-2008, 23:51
There was one CD player at the Baltimore GT and one at the Las Vagas GT. There was not one at the Chicago GT. In total for the years 2005 throught 2007, there were 5 CD players, out of 708 total players.

Unfortunately, the three-year total does not include the Minneapolis GT, because that data on the GW site points to the Seattle result, so what you're seeing is the total of 7 GTs; three in 2007, one in 2006, and three in 2005.

Those are some sad numbers. Thanks for the information.

guillaume
21-02-2008, 00:43
Well, this is all nice and happy.

Let see, as an ogre player, to be told that cheating ogres should force GW to cancel ogres. Well it is a shame that players cheat. Anyone who does should never find a player again. As for the warband player, warband should be fun. If he wants to use 30DOW (which is not allowed) then dont play against that player.

As for CD not allowed in tournaments: that makes no sense because they have always been allowed, and no change in rules is making them obsolete or to powerful. Therefore there is no reason to disallowed CD.

As for DOW, as a lizardmen player I sometimes use a DOW canon to pack a bit of punch. Is that cheesy? i dont know, this seems to make sense to me.

DOW actual armies are not that powerful, good but not great. I dont see why they are not allowed.
To allow DOW units in regular armies, maybe there should be more restrictions: like 0-1 DOW unit in an army. That should limit their use.

Still this move makes no sense.

odmiller
21-02-2008, 01:24
Not to be contradictory, but look again at the GW site. The Daemonic Legions is listed as a legal army for 40K, but NOT for Fantasy.

See this: http://gt.us.games-workshop.com/2008/gt_promo/rules_wh.htm

This despite the fact that in the March White Dwarf, GW announced that they are launching DL for both systems in May. I suspect that this is an oversight and that DL will end up being added.

From what I understand it's because the Fantasy DL list works with Hordes of Chaos, and that new codex won't be released in time, so it's a no go for Fantasy. The DL in 40k is completely stand alone, so it's OK.