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View Full Version : Mengil manhide's Manflayers again..



londo
17-02-2008, 17:06
Hi,
This question is old, very old. Sorry about that, but i really need to know for sure.
Can i join Manflyers unit with my Dark Elf characters?

Ive read already so many opinions on few different forums...

Point is: What are they? Dark elves or Dogs of War? And if they are DoW, why GW place them along with the Dark Elves on the GW internet page, why they sell them as a Dark Elf unit on the internet shop? Why i can use them witn ALL Dark Elves army variants if i cannot do that with "standard" DoW units?
Thank you

Festus
17-02-2008, 17:19
Hi


They are a DoW unit and can be hired by Dark Elves as a special choice.
They are not a Dark Elf unit as part of the DE Army List, they are a DoW unit consisting of Dark Elves.

As a DoW unit, Characters may join the Manflayers with the normal exceptions. Note that Menghil may not leave the unit.

The rules can be found here: http://uk.games-workshop.com/whitedwarf/assets/wd298/menghils-manflayers.pdf

Festus

Oh, I forgot: You cannot use most other DoW in SoC lists, because the DoW list does not allow you to include them. Such is the case with side-armies... ;)

theunwantedbeing
17-02-2008, 17:23
They are a dogs of war unit.
They are placed in the DE section for convenience, and DE players will be more likely to notice and buy them if they are in the DE section.
They can be used in all DE variant lists as those are the rules for taking them.

I wonder if you can take multiples of them?

Festus
17-02-2008, 17:27
Hi

I wonder if you can take multiples of them?
No, as a Regiment of Reknown, they are as unique as any special character ... or any other Regiment of Renown.

Festus

londo
17-02-2008, 17:50
As a DoW unit, Characters may join the Manflayers with the normal exceptions. Note that Menghil may not leave the unit.

What are this exceptions? Sorry, but ive heard so many different opinions...
Id like to join some sorceress or noble with battle standard..
Iv read somewhere that it is allowed, and it was wroted by somebody from GW. Then i come across different words, that i cannot..

I want to play fair..

Thank you

Jack of Blades
17-02-2008, 18:56
Oh, I really hope they can be joined by other characters. If someone answers this question, could you answer if my Vampire Count can join them too?

Then again, you just answered that Festus. Thanks :)

londo
17-02-2008, 19:19
Hi,
I think i found an answer:

"Characers normally move and fight on their own. In effect, a character counts as an individual unit comprising of only one model. However, during the course of a battle, a character is allowed to join a friendly unit of troops - infantry, cavalry, unit of chariots or a war machine's crew, but never a monster, single chariot, unit of flyers or another character! In this case, he become part of that unit until he decide to leave it."
Warhammer Rulebook 7th ed, page 72

Simple :D
Thanks everyone.

Festus
17-02-2008, 19:33
... could you answer if my Vampire Count can join them too?
Undead characters may only join Undead units. So sorry, no Vamps in the Dark Elves.

Otherwise you would have very stupid situations like your Vampire being broken and fleeing for panic - he loses his ItP then :)

Of what happens if the unit lost combat? Where do the Wounds go and who tests on Ld? ;)

Festus

Jack of Blades
17-02-2008, 19:56
Noooo!
Ah well - I can still include them, no big loss.

Lord Zarkov
17-02-2008, 20:17
Undead characters may only join Undead units. So sorry, no Vamps in the Dark Elves.

Otherwise you would have very stupid situations like your Vampire being broken and fleeing for panic - he loses his ItP then :)

Of what happens if the unit lost combat? Where do the Wounds go and who tests on Ld? ;)

Festus

and it says that where?

Jack of Blades
17-02-2008, 20:22
Hmm, that's true. There may still be hope for me...
If it turns out my Count can actually join them, I'll blossom like a flower.

Festus
17-02-2008, 20:33
It says so in an 6th ed FAQ, which seems to be still valid, as the VC list is still a 6th list as well -

but this will not change with the new VC, I think: There are too many problems with mixing Undead and non-Undead in one unit.

Note how Kreuger has this ruling explicitly in his DoW unit's entry.

Festus

Jack of Blades
17-02-2008, 20:35
Page 79 - Unbreakable characters may not join non-unbreakable units, and non-unbreakable characters cannot join unkreakable units.

Festus
17-02-2008, 20:41
Hi

Funnily enough, Undead are not unbreakable ;)
they have their own set of rules for Break Tests -

but basically you are right, this is the 7th ed way to deal with that and it will be something along those lines with 7th VC as well.

Festus

Jack of Blades
17-02-2008, 20:45
Yep... arguing that because they aren't literally unbreakable, they can join non-unbreakable units, would be really strange.

sulla
17-02-2008, 23:21
Oh, I forgot: You cannot use most other DoW in SoC lists, because the DoW list does not allow you to include them. Such is the case with side-armies... ;)

Possibly an outdated concept if the little aside on DoW in other armies on the GW online store DoW site is taken into consideration?

Festus
18-02-2008, 06:11
Hi

It is because of this, too: The DoW rules tell you which army may hire whom.

The generic DoW list has a list of the Armies that can hire DoW. Kislev and SoC armies do not factor in there. RoR OTOH usually say something like: *all other armies may hire...*, which includes those niche lists.

Festus

Lord Zarkov
18-02-2008, 13:08
It says so in an 6th ed FAQ, which seems to be still valid, as the VC list is still a 6th list as well -

but this will not change with the new VC, I think: There are too many problems with mixing Undead and non-Undead in one unit.

Note how Kreuger has this ruling explicitly in his DoW unit's entry.

Festus

Even if the 6th Ed FAQ still applies (which it shoudn't really, if it did it'd be in the online ones) it definitly won't come next month.

As for problems, a character is bound by the units psychology so will be forced to flee if his unit is, even if he usually won't/can't. The only time problems start to arise really is when living characters join undead units that are then killed (with excess) by CR (do they take wounds or not).

Kreuger explicitly can't be joined, if he couldn't be joined anyway why would such a ruling be necessary? The Cursed Company kind of acts as a different army anyway; with it's own general (Kreuger) and it's own battle stick (well kind of).

Edit:
@ Jack of Blades: The Rules for Unbreakable units and characters (including the restrictions on joing units/being joined by characters) only apply to units/characters withe the Unbreakable rule, Undead units atm lack this rule so aren't bound by it. This may change next month, but I doubt it.