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Riftsower
18-02-2008, 17:01
Iíve been play testing and tweaking my new VC lists for an upcoming Tournament at my local bunker and testing slightly larger lists for Adepticon. Last night I went up against a good buddy of mine and a hard player. 2250 pts VC vs Skaven.

The Lists:

Vampire Counts

Vampire Count Lvl. 3
Forbidden Lore -Necromancy
Dark Acolyte
Summon Ghouls
Von Carstien Ring
Dispel Scroll

Vampire (Summon Zombies, Vanhelís Dance)
Master of the Dark Arts
Summon Skeletons
Helm of Commandment

Vampire (Summon Zombies, Curse of Years)
Master of the Dark Arts
Avatar of Death
Book of Arkhan

Wight King BSB
Drakenhoff Banner
Heavy Armor, Shield, GW


Core:

10 Ghouls
10 Ghouls
10 Skeletons
7 Dire Wolves
Corpse Cart
Corpse Cart

Special:
19 Grave Guard w/ Banner of Barrows
5 Fel Bats

Rare:
Vargulf
Vargulf

Skaven:

Iím posting this from memory at work so I doubt Iíll remember exactly what he had item wise unless it came into play. So Iíll just post what the items did.

Grey Seer (Skitterleap, Vermin Tide, Pestilence Breath, Plague)
(+1 dice)
Dispel Scroll
4+ Ward Save
A lot of warpstone tokens

Warplock Engineer
Storm Daemon
Dispel Scroll

Assassin
Bands of Power

Plague Priest
(no idea, possibly the book that gave him pestilence breath)
Flail

Core:

29 Clan Rats w/ Ratling Gun
29 Clan Rats w/ Ratling Gun
30 Clan Rats
10 Gutter Runners*
10 Gutter Runners*
10 Night Runners*
14 Giant Rats w/ 2 packmasters
14 Giant Rats w/2 packmasters

25 Plague Monks

Special:

2 Globers
2 Globers
2 Globers
8 Jezzails

Rare:
Warp Lightning Cannon

ē I might have the names switched. Either way 1 was scouting, both were poisoned.

Deployment:

We more or less set up on only Ĺ the field as my army needs to stay together and his army wants to shoot mine in the face. So Iíll only list the pieces of scenery that were brought into play.

From my point of view I had a large hill on my left just outside my deployment zone and a forest near the center of the field to my right. He had a hill in his deployment zone on my left.

From left to right, my deployment was such:
Fel Bats
Vargulf > Grave Guard > Ghouls > Skeletons > Ghouls > Wolves > Vargulf
Corpse Cart > Corpse Cart

My lord was with the skeletons, Vampire 1 left most ghouls, Vampire 2 right most ghouls, BSB in Grave Guard. Grave Guard and Vargulf started behind the hill and the wolves ďbehindĒ the forest.

His deployment from my view, left to right.

2 Units of 2 Globers > Plague Monks > Clan Rats > Clan Rats w/ratling gun > Jezzails (on hill) > Warp Lightning Cannon > Clan Rats w/ratling gun > gutter runners > 2 Glober

Grey Seer is in the left most clan rats, plague priest in the plague monks, and Warplock Engineer in the middle clan rat unit.

He had 1 unit of gutter runners encircling his plague monks to keep their frenzy in check.
He had 1 unit of giant rats in front of the hill and 1 other across the way from my wolves.
His scouts deployed behind the forest.

This was a great game with a great opponent and with our magical prowess being fairly equal I expected a rough time.

I might add fluff to this report later but for now Iíll go with the game play mostly.

Riftsower
18-02-2008, 17:04
Turn 1: Vampire Counts

Movement:
Everything moves up. The Vargulf and Grave guard on my left move to the hill. The rest of the infantry move up between the hill and the forest. Wolves and Vargulf go full, angling my wolves to either charge the jezzails or the Lightning cannon next turn. Position the Vargulf behind them slightly and facing the right most clan rat unit. (this is where I made my first error) I moved my bats up to threaten either the Jezzails or Lightning cannon as well next turn.

Magic:
A rather uneventful turn, raised some ghouls and skeletons but rolled terribly for the numbers summoned. Possibly 10 models after all of my dice. Winds of Undeath was scrolled. And with that it was the end of my turn.

Turn 1: Skaven

Movement:
And just like that, Turn 1 charges were declared due to my ignorance. I forgot giant rats could charge 12Ē so in they went against my fel bats, passed their fear. Night runners into my wolves, also pass their fear barely. On my left the gutter runners covering the monks moves up and right in front of my Vargulf. Everything else moves up to shoot at me.

Magic:
My priorities were to keep plague and warp lightning on lock down. And I do just that. He gets vermin tide off and sends the mass of rats toward the fel bat and giant rat combat. Kills about 5 rats and 3 wounds off of the fel bats.

Shooting:
Warp Lightning cannon shoots at my right most Vargulf and gets only strength 2 which does nothing. Jezzails take 2 wounds off my Vargulf. Rating guns didnít have range at the start and ended up moving this turn.

Combat:
My fel bats fight valiantly and after wounds and CR they end up surviving with 1 wound left (thank you BSB!). Wolves get completely destroyed by the night runners, they over run into the Vargulf (poor choice!).

Turn 2: Vampire Counts

Movement:
Only 2 charges this turn with the Vargulf on my left going into the gutter runners, who fail their terror and run the hell away. I then redirect into the clan rats and hoped to either have him fail a terror test or kill the Grey Seer. He passes his LD test and in I go. Skeletons with lord charge giant rats who flee from fear into my new spirit hosts and die. Everything else moves up to stay in line with the Grave Guard.

Magic:
This was the turning point in the game. Got a couple raises off, some ghouls, brought back a bat, nothing really special. Then on 3 dice I went for Winds of Undeath, irresistible force. My opponentís mouth drops and curses my luck. The spell goes on to do 9 wounds, killing both ratling guns and wounding one of the small units of globers, causing it to panic and flee off the board. The new unit of 3 Spirit host bases (one only at 1 wound) now are sitting less than 6Ē from the jezzails on the hill. I also get curse of years off from the thrall onto the plague monks, kills 5.

Combat:
Vargulf vs Clan Rats did not go well. The assassin showed himself and I directed all of my attacks into him, hitting with 4 then only wounding with 1Ö the unit strikes back and does nothing. I lose combat by a lot, need to pass 3 out of 4 regen saves to keep him alive. Sadly it was not to be so and I only passed 2, Vargulf goes down. The giant rats see off my fel bats. Night Runners actually do a wound to the Vargulf, who then goes on to kill 4. They break, are chased down and I over run into the naked Clan Rat unit who pass their terror.

Turn 2: Skaven

Movement:
Plague monks had to charge either my Grave Guard or Ghouls. He made the wise choice and went for my ghouls. Gutter runners fail to rally and go off the board. Terror on the right flank sees the other unit of gutter runners fleeing and also the pair of globers fleeing. He moves his left most globers around my grave guard and angles the rest of the army to give/receive charges next turn.

Magic:
Iím once again making sure to keep warp lightning at bay, vermin tide goes off which really doesnít do much even though it went through almost my entire army. And I scroll Plague. He forgets to dispel curse of years which kills about 5 more.

Shooting:
Warp Lightning cannon aims at the new spirit hosts and hopes to take down a base. But apparently the spooks were too imposing and the crew shoved too much warpstone into the contraption, causing it to explode. Jezzails do only 2 wounds to the host, bringing down the smaller base.

Combat:
Going from right to left, Plague Priest destroys my armorless vampire and the frenzied rodents do enough to kill me off perfectly with CR. They over run into my skeletons with count due to the monks being 7 wide. Vargulf on the right kills 4 rats. Loses combat but regens the wound.

Turn 3: Vampire Counts

Movement:
Charges go off, 2nd unit of ghouls go into the flank of the plague monks. GG try for the Grey Seers unit and fail. Spirit hosts go into the jezzails who cant stand and shoot due to me being too close. 1 cart moves up to cover the rear of my ghouls who could be flanked by close by giant rats. Other cart moves so it can cover the grave guard and skeletons with its bound spell.

Magic:
Poor rolling and a dispel scroll later sees a couple ghouls being raised and my center always striking first (not the GG). I ended curse of years as I attempted to vanhels spam my grave guard into combat unsuccessfully.

Combat:
Between my skeletons, ghouls, count and fighty vampire, it sees about 8 dead rats. Plague priest kills 2 skeletons. I outnumber and cause fear, they flee far, but not far enough from my counts unit and are caught. Nearby giant rats didnít like seeing the ferocious plague monks being butchered, and panic through the forest. Vargulf swings at some more rats, kills 3-4, loses combat, regens the wound (this is the pattern for the rest of that combat lol). I botch my rolls with the spirit hosts, 2 hits, 0 wounds. Lost combat by 2, outnumber and high ground. They suffer CR wounds.

Turn 3: Skaven

Movement:
He throws his grey seer unit into my Grave guard, as it was a charge or be charge situation. Glober and gutter runners on my right fail to rally and run a bit more.
Middle Clan Rats move up more.

Magic:
Once again the magic duel is pretty uneventful, he skitterleaps his grey seer into the center clan rats for safety. Vermin tide goes off and doesnít do much.

Shooting:
Globers toss into my grave guard and donít do anything.

Combat:
Grave guard kill about 3 rats, assassin goes into my BSB and doesnít do anything. BSB returns the favor. Rats lose but hold. Spirit hosts finally do something and kill 3. I outnumber and cause fear, chasing them off the board. Vargulf kills 3-4 Clan Rats and regens the CR wound.

Turn 4: Vampire Counts

Movement:
Ghouls with vampire charge clan rats with grey seer/warplock engineer in it. They hold. Spirit hosts return, Skeletons turn toward the clan rats and carts move to make their spells most effective.

Magic:
Once again uneventful, lots of failed casts but the GG strike first thanks to a corpse cart.

Combat:
BSB KBís the assassin, grave guard kill 3 more. Rats lose combat and flee, are chased down. Panics the near by globers off the board. Ghouls botch it and kill no clan rats, vamp also botches. 1 Ghoul dies in return, only lose 2 ghouls to CR thanks to the BSB barely in range. Vargulf kills 3-4 rats again, finally breaking some ranks but still loses. Regens the CR wound.

Turn 4: Skaven

Movement:
Gutter runners and globers on my right rally. Giant rats rally on the other side of the woods, back near my deployment zone.

Magic:
Grey Seer skitterleaps his warplock engineer out of combat to start blasting my skeletons as I can no longer raise them (the vampire that died could summon them.). Grey Seer chugs some warp tokens and vermin tides the combat he is in. Killing 3 skaven and 1 ghoul. Warplock Engineer eats a stone and gets warp lightning off, rolls a 1 for the number of hits and wounds himself. Plague fails to cast.

Combat:
Ghouls still fail, but vampire kills 2. Rats fail to wound the ghouls. I lose combat by 1 but donít suffer a wound thanks to the BSB. Vargulf into clan rats does 3-4 wounds and loses combat by 1 now. Finally suffers a wound. Still has 2 left.

At this point my opponent surrenders; he knows hes locked in combat until I get more units in there to break him. He curses my luck on the irresistible Winds of Undeath and my obscene amount of passed regenerations with my Vargulf.

Recap:
I really like how this list played, the Vargulfs are fantastic and my friends scoffed at me when I said they could go toe to toe with a basic T3 block. But I honestly thought my opponent had me due to his shooting. If Winds of Undeath hadnít killed both ratling guns and spawned a huge spirit host, it wouldíve been a completely different game. As for rolling, the luck generally balanced out. Beyond the game winning roll, my close combat and other casting rolls were horrid. While my opponent rolled fairly well for his magic, combat and LD tests (for skaven) but failing hard with his shooting. We both had our mistakes, I misjudged the movement on some of his units (been forever since I played skaven) and got needlessly charged. While he forgot to use his warpstone tokens earlier in the game before we got into the swirling melee. Great game and looking forward to going against him again.


I have a few other Battle reports written up using the new counts. If people like this one I will post some more. Had a lot of brutal games vs a Walter bound spam empire list, wood elves, high elves and lizardmen.

danko
18-02-2008, 18:36
That was a bloody battle indeed. And your report doesnt quite portray how very upset the skaven guy was at the irresistible Winds of Undeath; he did much more than curse your luck. I was hoping the Grey Seer was gonna bring it back despite such a setback, but it just wasn't gonna happen.

EvC
18-02-2008, 18:57
Wow, one of the first battle reports I've read with less than 15 power dice, well done on showing such restraint!

gondarion
18-02-2008, 19:08
Yes, I'm sure we'd all appreciate seeing the others. Great battle!

Riftsower
18-02-2008, 19:26
Thanks for the replies. I'll post up one of the empire battles tonight or tomorrow morning. The Walter alone makes those games vicious.

Zoolander
18-02-2008, 20:38
Nice game Rift! How were the mages picking spells? Was that house rule you guys used? Also, Master of the Dark Arts will take all their points allotment, so they couldn't take Avatar or Lord of the Dead. Unless you meant they both had Forbidden Lore. But even then, that's too many points for Avatar too (Lord of the Dead, yes.).

I'm going to try a Wight King BSB in a unit of GG next. Sounds fun!

Riftsower
18-02-2008, 21:45
Thanks Zoo. I only got to pick with my count, I listed the other spells for my normal vamps just so people knew what I rolled. I probably got the names of my abilities switched around. My vamps had the +1 Caster level bloodline. Not the +2 power dice, in which my Count actually had. Sorry for the confusion.

But picking my spells is huge on the count. Its true I use my lord mostly to summon, but when i need something else, at least I know I have that spell in my roster 100%.

Zoolander
19-02-2008, 07:33
Ah that makes sense. Thanks for clarifying! Yes, I like Forbidden Lore as well. I took Dark Acolyte earlier today, and like that also (6 PD a turn is mean).

sainthale1988
19-02-2008, 10:11
yea i'm starting to swing towards dark acolyte, considering the amount of time i speand just raising dead, and i'm never going to use another lore (except mabie beasts onces to get my combaty vamp realy pissed off with bears anger!) but i do like having all the spells to play with, esp wind of undeath (that spell as you saw is amazing!). sorry it took you 4 turns to win (most new VC seam to be averaging 3 at most!)

Riftsower
19-02-2008, 14:28
I had a long and drawn out 2k game vs Wood Elves last night. Not worth posting as it was boring as hell until turn 6. My Vargulf went completely berserk and took 4 wounds off of a treeman ancient in one round of combat, who had exactly 4 wounds left at the start. My opponent was more than displeased.

I'll try to get an interesting report up today.

Feefait
19-02-2008, 15:11
ahhh poor poor skaven. My friend and i just did a skaven vs. counts battle for one last hurrah of the old book. Just to see how it was since he hadn't use dit in forever compared ot when the new one comes out. I stomped him but good. Don't think that could happen with this army and this list though. Very competitive game but those poor rats should have done more cr damage I would think. how does the bsb help nearby units with cr? I will need to deal with that one! lol

Riftsower
19-02-2008, 16:30
A VC BSB allows units within 12" to take 1 less wound from CR. I never thought it would help much in the last edition, but now that you can put the banner on your back, I don't think I'll ever play a game where i dont have a BSB.

Zoolander
19-02-2008, 17:23
On your back? In English that means...? :-)

Riftsower
19-02-2008, 18:02
My group refers to the "back banner" when a BSB is allowed to take great weapons and shields and still carry a battle standard. The image in our head is the old samurai style of carrying banners.

Nedar
20-02-2008, 02:36
I'll prob always have a Wight BSB. He'll almost always have a GW too. 110 points right there. Next i'll either give him the Drakenhoff banner or Flayed Hauberk. 100 points difference in the end if I wan't a regen banner. I might also consider the War Banner as an alternative, but since Skeletons units can buy those themselves, I don't see a need for it. Just a BSB with a 2+ armor save or a BSB with a 5+ armor and 4+ regen and a GW :evilgrin:

A Vampire BSB with War Banner and Walking Death is hella funny, however (I THINK you can take BL powers with magic banner, just not magic items). +3 CR to something like ghouls would be hillarious.

And as for your bat rep: Nice, i've yet to see VC lose heh.

And on your vampires I assume you mean Dark Acolyte and not Master of the Dark Arts. One is +1 Magic Level one is +2 PD, one uses up all of your Hero's BL alotment, the other does not ;)

Your lord is interesting indeed. Carstien Ring means that your opponent would lose a lot on an allout lord assault, then he'd just pop up somewhere else 5/6 of the time.

Zoolander
20-02-2008, 03:37
My group refers to the "back banner" when a BSB is allowed to take great weapons and shields and still carry a battle standard. The image in our head is the old samurai style of carrying banners.

That's a great way to picture it. Nice!

sainthale1988
20-02-2008, 10:45
noooooo not like the stupid marine banners that were so prevelent in 3rd and 4th edition 40k! i rather think that the vamp is so strong and skilled he can weild a GW one handed!

PeG
20-02-2008, 11:40
Nice report, thanks. I am looking forward to seeing the new VC taking on a War altar + Stank empire army or a couple of HE dragons in a magic heavy army which are combos that I think will give them serious problems.

sainthale1988
20-02-2008, 11:48
Nice report, thanks. I am looking forward to seeing the new VC taking on a War altar + Stank empire army or a couple of HE dragons in a magic heavy army which are combos that I think will give them serious problems.

right spirit hosts for the steam tanks/ tarpit zombies. having the waraltar its not that tough, and an arch lector can't take on large number of average stat infantry, thus good unit of gouls will deal with that. we have two great magic weapons VS monsters, and can take dragons areselves and can take a lot of greatweapons. that said these match up you mention should be a good laugh! :evilgrin:

VladtheLad
20-02-2008, 14:15
Great report, more plz!

I would like to see how vampires fare against empire (especially the war altar and steam tank one).

Zoolander
20-02-2008, 14:18
I agree with Saint IF we take the right troops. The BKs can handle the stank or ethereal stuff can, IF we take them. A lord on dragon combo might be an issue unless he's dumb enough to tackle the vampire's unit. Otherwise, he can eat most other units. A zombie unit might keep him busy for a round or two if he charges one, which we can continue to raise until vampire or blood knights can get over there, I guess. I'm hoping to face one of those this weekend, so I'll tell you how it goes.

gd09garett
20-02-2008, 21:37
What is the cost of a Vargulf?

sainthale1988
20-02-2008, 22:46
hello welcome the warseer! just to say that you should realy red the forum rule as arn't allowed to put points costs of anyting except total costs in armylists. this is also blatent thread jacking which could irritate zoolander. however just this once i can say that its about 165pts.

gd09garett
21-02-2008, 02:22
No thread jacking, I am just concerned that power creep is again occuring in the books and was looking for prices. I happen to like Warhammer where are armies are actual armies rather than a few little units to meet requirements while heroes and monsters do all the work. So, a single monster who can again deal with entire units seems somewhat concerning. But, at 165 the point cost is maybe somewhat close to correct though with flying [IIRC] and being a single model he has far greater choice in where and who to engage than any infantry unit does.
I am just not looking forward to being forced into playing a shooting or knight heavy Empire army or static/shooting Dwarves just to compete with the 'standard' set ups of the new armies.

Volker the Mad Fiddler

Ward.
21-02-2008, 02:29
IIRC the Vargulf was only movement 9.

I'm just looking forwards to an entire skaven armies worth of shooting and magic being used to wipe those knights of the blood keep away in one turn, even if it costs me the game.

Balvine
21-02-2008, 02:47
I am just not looking forward to being forced into playing a shooting or knight heavy Empire army or static/shooting Dwarves just to compete with the 'standard' set ups of the new armies.

I agree with you. Seems like there's no other choise but to go with SAD or the likes to win against new VC or HE and that to me is quite depressing. On the battle report we can see how easily he won in 4 turns although he was outnumbered with 180 models against 69. I think that is shocking. I think I'll try to cope with these new powercreeps the way I can and if I can't then I'll switch to one of them until my army gets their 7th ed. rules also.

Zoolander
21-02-2008, 04:01
Vargulf is only MV8. I wish he was 9. And he is less than a giant in cost. So well worth it. I always build my lists like I don't know who I might face, so it's a well rounded army. You might find better luck doing it that way than trying to build a list for a specific army. Just MO.

eldereth
21-02-2008, 17:40
not sure about VC, but I'm pretty sure you don't have to go SAD when playing against HE. Either that or my regular HE opponent is really bad.

At first glance, the VC seem to be a lot stronger than the HE, especially with the 15+ PD cast half your spells as much as you like. Still, reserving my judgement untill a few months of adapting.

Zoolander
21-02-2008, 20:12
Eld, 15 PD is more of a rarity, and that means they don't have the flexibility or tactical options as other lists, as they have devoted everything to magic. I'd expect closer to 12 PD for most magic based lists, and 10 or less for combat ones (the last combat list I played with had only 7).

Riftsower
22-02-2008, 05:57
Sorry for the delay, moving into a new place this weekend. Expect a 2k Dwarf vs VC report coming soon, was a fun game (1 Spirit Host > block of Slayers). I tried to get a new game vs my empire buddy, but he refuses to play another game until he finishes painting is 2250 tournament list.

Balvine
22-02-2008, 09:23
Eld, 15 PD is more of a rarity, and that means they don't have the flexibility or tactical options as other lists, as they have devoted everything to magic. I'd expect closer to 12 PD for most magic based lists, and 10 or less for combat ones (the last combat list I played with had only 7).

7 PD in a combat list is still hell of a lot more than in any army that goes down the CC road ;) Reading these reports here and others in other sites I can see that the new VC are indeed powerful. In fact they have never lost a single game :evilgrin:. Being able to take both bloodline powers and magic items and being able to mix between the bloodlines themselves make some of the most powerful combos in the game. VC will truly be THE army to play if one wants a force that is both extremely forgiving (you can raise units back from the dead when you mess up) and have the advantages of ITP, Fear and unpreakable (somewhere I heard that you could ward and regen the crumbling effects also but not sure of this).

Well sorry about the rant :cool: Maybe I'll go buy myself a spearhead :evilgrin:

Boss_Salvage
22-02-2008, 15:58
I'm reposting this from the Ogre Stronghold, was sooo happy to read about a) new VC losing and b) ogres doing the stomping.

Thanks to guillaume for the batrep!

---------

Very short battle report as well as some info on the new VC in combat.

I brought:
1 tyrant, tenderizer, mawseeker and jade lion
3 butcher: 3 dispel scrolls, skull mantle, bangstick, halfing cookbook

3 units of IG
1 unit of bull
2 units of 2 leadbelchers
8 gnoblar trappers.
3 yethees
1 gorger
1 unit of 3 maneaters

he brought something along the lines of
Special character: Manfred von cast
2 vampires

2 units of 20 ghouls with a vampire in one unit, and Manfred in the other
2 corpse carts
2 units of 5 black knights
4 units of 5 wolves
3 spirit hosts

1 unit of 7 wraith with a banshee and 1 vampire.

The result was a crushing massacre for me. He was playing this army for the first time.

The few things that really struck my mind were:

The wraith have great weapons cause terror and are etheral and chewed through a unit of ironguts like butter. The banshee and its song of death can be pretty potent and be cast while in combat.
A large unit of wraith led by a vampire with a banshee is bad news basically for anything. Eventually they ended up charging my tyrant who was on his own, but with toothcracker on him and mawseeker for a mighty T7, and a magical weapon, he cleared that unit outright.

The ghouls are deadly: 2 attacks each with poison really is annoying, and irongut armour hardly protects much. One of the irongut unit had trollgut and regen on them and were able to deal with poison well enough.

The magic, the incessant magic and the raising of the dead ! Oh god. manfred had 8 or more power dice for himself, and he just kept on rolling 1 dice at a time for raising the dead. Plus I think the cart gave him +1 to a casting, so on average, he was able to use that tactic pretty well. Oddly the vampires can get the ghouls to move before the first turn. I though that was nice touch, since it would take us less time to get into combat.

Keep your dispel scroll for the big 5D6 zombies anywhere spell or the 3D6 wound on any unit spell. They are hard to cast but are just too scary to think about.

The corpse cart are pretty resilient, and give the danse macabre which allow all units within 6" to strike first. That can be annoying at time, especially at one point I had three ogres units engaged in a single combat with 3 VC units.

The yethees were pretty useful against the spirit hosts obviously with their magical weapons.

The trick with the undead was really to get as best of a CR as possible, and plough all the attacks on the little guys rather than target the vampires, to force them to lose more wounds through the crumble rule.

He didnt have any blood knights or a walfurgh (or whatever it is called).

The dangerous unit really for ogres are fat unit of ghouls with vampire, wraiths, and the walfurgh which can fly and obviously go behind our lines. Hopefully the blood knights can be rendered pretty useless because of their frenzy.

Definitely go magic heavy against VC as you'll need as much dispel scrolls as you can.

Overall, some changes, but once they started crumpling and the wraith were out of the picture, I was good to slash through.

---------

- Salvage

Jack of Blades
22-02-2008, 16:09
Uh, Varghulfs can't fly Salvage :D

Then it is as it should. Reports of VC winning all the time gets bland, it's nice to get feet stamped on one's face sometimes.

Boss_Salvage
22-02-2008, 16:47
Yeah, dunno what the OP was thinking there, but like he says he didn't face one this time so ah well.

Ogres are looking like a quasi-decent anti-vamp army, though I kinda doubt how much ANY army can be reliably anti-vamp with this new book!

- Salvage

Jack of Blades
22-02-2008, 16:58
Frostblade, Hellsteed, Red Fury, Infinite Hatred and Beguile is going to demolish most things I'm afraid :(
Then again, for those of us that don't change their lists against specific armies it won't matter to much. I don't tailor like that either, so you may very well be right.

Boss_Salvage
22-02-2008, 18:31
Ignoring the massively expensive frostblade, I'll note that the one saving grace of the new vamps is that there isn't any multi-wound weapons / powers (that I know of). So they can grind the living hell out of RnF but can't obliterate characters like those armies in the Multiplication is Fundamental Club.

Tooling to beat lists is pretty weak IMO, though with my ogres if I know I'm up against some heavy beard - 2 trees, vamps of all kinds when they hit, etc - I'll upgrade the tyrant with his tenderizer to regulate. Otherwise I prefer to take what I want, which is rarely very "Łber" :D

- Salvage

Zoolander
22-02-2008, 21:17
7 PD in a combat list is still hell of a lot more than in any army that goes down the CC road ;) Reading these reports here and others in other sites I can see that the new VC are indeed powerful. In fact they have never lost a single game :evilgrin:. Being able to take both bloodline powers and magic items and being able to mix between the bloodlines themselves make some of the most powerful combos in the game. VC will truly be THE army to play if one wants a force that is both extremely forgiving (you can raise units back from the dead when you mess up) and have the advantages of ITP, Fear and unpreakable (somewhere I heard that you could ward and regen the crumbling effects also but not sure of this).

Well sorry about the rant :cool: Maybe I'll go buy myself a spearhead :evilgrin:

Just remember the HEs were exactly the same way when they were released. The ASF had people screaming at GW that they were broken and OP!! It took a few weeks or months to get some decent HE strategies down, and I'm pretty sure as more people play against them, the more they will find tactics to beat them. Expect to get some good wins in until then!

Oh, and yes, you can regen and ward vs. crumbling effects! Thank god!

tehhelios
23-02-2008, 23:50
Vamp lords are down to 3 wounds and there aint much in protective items in the list.

If he has the good ward save against melee you will know since he will be required to do a stupid test at the beginning of his turn..

So without even faced them(i even have an old vc army) the tactic is easy.

Kill the characters and concentrate shooting.

Im not sure but 10 man units in such point costs, verry possible the enemy can shoot away atleast 1 unit before you can summon in it if he gets first turn, id try 15 man units to be safe IMO, grats on win.