PDA

View Full Version : Are Space Marine Scouts "Space Marines"



Zagstruk
19-02-2008, 02:33
Hello, I was trying to get an idea of what the DA Chapter looks like overall, and while I was counting to see how many their were, It occoured to me, do Scouts actually count when you're adding up the beakies, In some of the fluff I found it's said that until they aquire the Black carapace, they aren't true Space marines. Opinions? And while I'm at it is there anyone else that doesn't matter when it comes to counting heads?

Oh yeah I should probably mention that I understand that most Marine Chapters are larger than 1000 men, but they are usually pretty close I would Imagine

starlight
19-02-2008, 02:59
Close to 1000? Sure.

Sometimes way under due to losses? Of course.

Sometimes way over due to over recruiting or fewer losses than projected? Why not?

It's just a number that GW came up with that sounded good and worked with the *ten companies of ten squads of ten marines* (history buffs will note the similarities with Roman Legions...;)). I'd be willing to bet that few (if any) are ever at full strength of 1000 Marines.

To answer your question, according to the Codex Astartes, I do not believe the 10th Company counts (aside from the HQ/instructors seconded for training). In reality, it's likely a chapter tradition thing more than anything else. Some chapters may use the 10th Company as a way to *hide* Marines and bolster their numbers, others may use it to inflate their numbers after particularly bad losses to avoid having the chapter *retired*...

I'm pretty sure that most of the First Founding Chapters (and many of their Succesors) have found ways around the 1000 Marine limitations, possibly by mounting Crusades (which are hard to check up on) or by creating many Successor Chapters with binding ties of allegiance...

WorLord
19-02-2008, 03:51
Not really...scouts (or neophytes for the Black Templars) have been inducted into the chapter, but still have not received all the implants and training required to be considered a "true" space marine. As a general rule, if it's not in powered armor (or terminator armor ;)), it's not a space marine. And no, not everyone in powered armor is a space marine either...(SOBs I'm looking at you!!! Not a marine!!!)

Imperialis_Dominatus
19-02-2008, 04:02
As I'm given to understand it, only Battle Brothers count towards the full 1000, with higher ranking members and specialized personnel not counting. I'm not sure if Scouts count; I'd lean towards yes.

Dark Apostle197
19-02-2008, 04:23
Not really...scouts (or neophytes for the Black Templars) have been inducted into the chapter, but still have not received all the implants and training required to be considered a "true" space marine. As a general rule, if it's not in powered armor (or terminator armor ;)), it's not a space marine. And no, not everyone in powered armor is a space marine either...(SOBs I'm looking at you!!! Not a marine!!!)


What about Space Wolf Scouts. They dont have power armor but aren't they supposed to be veterans? Could be wrong, I know next to nothing about SW...

Gorbad Ironclaw
19-02-2008, 04:42
The problem is that the numbers given doesn't really make any sense. No matter how good a marine might be, you can't accomplish the things they supposedly do with the numbers they use. Marines makes much more sense if you add a zero or two to there numbers, and then most of these questions also goes away as there is much more leeway in there make-up

starlight
19-02-2008, 04:43
Indeed they are. Wolf Scouts are Veterans who follow the Lone Wolf path, rather than that of the Pack Hunter seen in Blood Claws (closer to regular Marine Scouts in the Space Wolf world) and Grey Hunters.

GodofWarTx
19-02-2008, 07:58
space wolves are far from codex compliant though.

Pimp My Rhino
19-02-2008, 09:32
I Would describe scouts as elite infantry, not your average guardsman ;)
too bad their stats are too similar to SM in current codex..

FarseerMatt
19-02-2008, 19:48
I Would describe scouts as elite infantry, not your average guardsman ;)
too bad their stats are too similar to SM in current codex..

I think that's because they DO have most of the marine implants at this stage - the only implant Scouts don't have is the Black Carapace (the one which allows you to interface with power armour, hence why Scouts don't wear power armour, but have all the other marine strength/toughness/initiative - etc - benefits)

Killgore
19-02-2008, 20:15
id say that count as a spacemarine just not a fully fledged member

a scout could easily best an elite imperial guardsmen in a 1 on 1 fight and have many super human abilitys

fisher368
20-02-2008, 04:40
well, technically they are considered the lowest of the low but are still marines. (besides those just jining from the start

Sojourner
20-02-2008, 09:05
As a Scout, you're already fully developed and a capable soldier. It wouldn't be unusual to have Scouts in the mid- to late thirties in 'ordinary' years. Your time in the Scout company is time used to hone your skills and for instruction in advanced tactics, not as a training creche for the newbies.

Burnthem
20-02-2008, 10:47
I agree, IMO Scouts would be counted towards the Chapter total, but remember that this magic '1000' figure refers only to Marines themselves. Once you add up all the Chapter Serfs, Servants, Techmarines (?), etc etc you have something approaching 3000.

Then you have to consider that Marines have fleets, so add 3/4000 for every cruiser (slightly lower than Navy cruisers due to advanced ships needing less crew), 5/600 for every Escort, and 8000 for any battle barges, and you have even the smallest Chapters totalling over 20,000 personnel in total!