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neo_ebrick
19-02-2008, 18:49
ok what about teclis for howler wind on his unit and 50 sword masters with two units of dragon princes for flank/ shock troops. no str 4 or less could shoot at SM so they will get in close. 2 nobles one with str 7 for chariots. one with great defense and banner of ellyrion for moblity. two units of archer as core and a couple of bolt throwers.

any thoughts/

W0lf
19-02-2008, 18:53
Swordmasters are good but not unstoppable?

seriously thats a terrible idea. What would you do when 2 Chariots hit your unit and destory your front rank? When irresitable castign of plague hits you? When your enemy is forcing 4 LD 9 Panic checks a turn on you from Screaming skull catapults?

What about a unit of Grail/chosen/blood knights hitting you in the flank?

neo_ebrick
19-02-2008, 19:15
my unit op dp's with str 7 would make short work of chariots and with teclis thats ld 10 and yes war machines you always have to be careful. any unit with plague in high elves are bad. the really moble unit of dp can get behind the lins easy.

enyoss
19-02-2008, 19:23
Any thoughts? Well, first thing I would do as your opponent would be to dispel the Howler Wind in my own turn before I let rip with all my shooting.

Really, this is a pretty terrible set up to consider for two reasons. Primarily, it probably won't work very well for you. Secondly, it will probably be incredibly dull for you and your opponent, with you probably winning should you make it to combat, and definitely losing otherwise.

My advice would be to ditch Teclis and experiment with the many viable army builds which are now available to you. Even though this is one of them, a quick search of the forums will remind you have much fun Teclis is for your opponent!

Cheers,

enyoss

klstrider28
19-02-2008, 22:48
that many swordmasters in one place is just bad...

that much infantry will be begging for some dakka...

what about an empire great cannon? or many of them?
depending on how you set them up you can lose a lot of pointy-ears

Hellblasters? Organ Guns? Bolt throwers?

stone throwers and rocket batteries?

basically war machines in general will be scary.

if those elfs panic you will be screwed...

what about the banner of the lady (bretonnia) that ignores rank bonuses? or the bretonnian heraldry that ignores outnumbering?

howler wind can be easily dispelled.

CHARIOTS!

Any units that can flank...

not to mention how expensive the army will be compared to other armies at that level of points.

any opponent who faces you will be prepared for this or will just refuse to play against that list. You won't be very well-liked either way...

sulla
19-02-2008, 23:45
ono str 4 or less could shoot at SM so they will get in close.

Spell doesn't work on war machine shooting does it? So multi shot RBT's would rip them a new one while they are busy chasing dark riders around all day...

neo_ebrick
20-02-2008, 16:56
ok let me say when i say 50 sword masters i mean units 0f 12 probley 4 and two units of DP also yes certin units will hurt a lot my bolt throwers are good for fast cav. so i' think that over all i can counter most things. with good movement i think this will be a hard list to beat as for holler wind throw 5 dice at howler wind its going to be IR forces any doubles but one! yes i could get a regular arch mage with book of hoeth and it would be cheaper. with extra points i could get a couple of eagles to help hunt targets.

neo_ebrick
20-02-2008, 16:58
and yes RBT's are str 4 so id still get somewhat of a save

warlord hack'a
20-02-2008, 18:13
swordmasters are special choices right? and dragon princes? How many specials do you get?

Anyway, how about all warmachines targetting Teclis and his unit, is he immune to rocks and cannon balls? Or a suicide charge by a chariot or a well armoured enemy character killer.

not one armybuild is invincible, but indeed with the new HE rules swordmasters are very hard to beat, especially if you have that many of them. Still, static CR is a threat to them as it is for all small elite units..

neo_ebrick
20-02-2008, 18:26
yes static cr is my biggest fear however im not going with teclis any more im pretty sure im just going with an arch mage and the book of hoeth. of and high elves at 2k can have 6 specials and 4 rare. i saw a game where the HE player took two cannons and two bolt throwers. as for me i like HE so i don't take DOW units.

Jack of Blades
20-02-2008, 20:52
Fifty nice little Swordmasters, in one place?
Bring it on! :D

*hides his unit of 4 Spirit Hosts that can be healed*

Or perhaps I should just drop my Four-Comet setup on them. There's nothing the comets like more than T3 with no save in one collected place.


Seriously though, this is a horrible idea... go with what those above said. There are indefinite ways of doing nasty things to that unit (or should I say army?), and while it would certainly make good target practice for 2 Banshees and 3 Vampires with Power Stone and Lore of Death, I wouldn't want to play it much.

Dtae787
21-02-2008, 06:23
and yes RBT's are str 4 so id still get somewhat of a save


You dont get an armor save on the sword masters from RBT's. RBTS do a -2 to armor. You wear heavy armor. That kills it. I think the army would be frustrating to play imo.

neo_ebrick
21-02-2008, 06:56
You dont get an armor save on the sword masters from RBT's. RBTS do a -2 to armor. You wear heavy armor. That kills it. I think the army would be frustrating to play imo.[/QUOTE]

yes your right
as to the poster above once again im going to be running units of 12 12inches apart to still get howler wind effect.

sulla
21-02-2008, 07:27
You dont get an armor save on the sword masters from RBT's. RBTS do a -2 to armor. You wear heavy armor. That kills it. I think the army would be frustrating to play imo.

yes your right
as to the poster above once again im going to be running units of 12 12inches apart to still get howler wind effect.[/QUOTE]

Best thing you can do now is run this army. Maybe you're a tactical genius and we can't see it because we are too small minded. Run it. Prove all the doubters wrong...

warlord hack'a
21-02-2008, 07:37
the confusion was in the orginal post where there was mention of 50 swordmasters, so everybody assumed he meant one unit of 50, which he did not, he just meant he will be fielding 50 in total. And as far as I read in other threads, the SM are a very cost effective unit, so basically loading up on them is making optimal use of this fact, so it should be a tough list in theory. Of course, versus magic and shooting they die in groves with T3 and only a 5+ save at the best of times.

But indeed, run the army a few test games and see how it goes, remember that you do need to include at least 3 core units though!

Khorneflakes
21-02-2008, 08:38
two core units im afraid, plus howler wind has no effect on war machines at all!

neo_ebrick
21-02-2008, 17:27
to show the list i just played and beat an experenced lizzardmen army.

arch mage lvl 4
ring of fury 40
silver wand 10
reaver bow
350
lvl 2 mage
jewl of dusk 150

10 archers 110
20 spearmen standard 190
12 sword masters champ standard 204
12 sword masters champ standard 204
12 sword masters stadard 192
5 dragon princes 150
5 dragon princes 150
bolt thrower 100
bolt thrower 100
eagle 50
eagle 50
================================================== =====2000

his 4 units of blowdarts killed a unit of SM before they were all killed by magic fury of kaine. his steagadon did small damage, but my eagles held his carnasour up until it killed my speramen and my arch mage but by time that happend his kroxigore were dead along with his saurour warriors and his skink priest. moderate victory, good magic, good shooting, and awsome close combat i like this list. ready to play more games have a game with dwarves later im scared,

winkypinky
21-02-2008, 19:39
You can not take a reaver bow on a archmage. Since he can not have any mundane weapons. That is the way I read it in the BRB but I could be wrong...

Malorian
21-02-2008, 19:47
He can have the bow as it's not mundane.

Good to see you won.

neo_ebrick
21-02-2008, 20:03
since he is allowed to take a long bow he is also allowded to take a magical weapon of that type instead of the mundane version

Tarian
21-02-2008, 21:08
Why 12 Sword Masters? If you field them 5 wide, you have 2 spares, 7 wide would leave 2 blank spots in the back... unless you're fielding them 6 wide? That seems a little odd to me but...

Sword Masters are strong, but Brettonia can rip them into little pieces. That cursed Lance Formation combined with a Ward Save means that something gets to strike back, and with a T3 5+AS model, any hit's a bad hit.

I can't help but notice you don't field any Dispel Scrolls (I know some people hate them, but they are handy.) And other than the Spears, you have next to no static combat resolution.

Furthermore, your DPs have rather poor combat resolution, not even possessing a banner. 3 ranks + Banner + outnumber = +5 Combat resolution. You'd have to kill 5 guys and take no casualties in return just to break even with them, furthermore, you'd still lose if the other guy has a musician with him. DPs have nice killing power, but they still suffer against high T or high AS, or heaven forbid, both i.e. Ironbreakers.

Your army looks strong in CC, yet very frail. Any hit is going to be a bad hit, and I think there isn't enough static combat resolution to guarantee a win against some of the utterly ridiculous units people put together.

In short, your list should slaughter anyone caught with a melee-focused list, but will die a horrible and painful death to anyone with heavy magic, warmachines, shooting, and/or chariots.

Dragon Prince of Caledor
21-02-2008, 21:12
That is one of the worst ideas ever... first of all it is not a cool list and second of all it is extremely easy to beat..

fubukii
21-02-2008, 21:18
i think white lions work better then swordmasters in most situations. Maybe swap out a unit of sword masters or 2 for white lions

EvC
21-02-2008, 21:19
Just to re-iterate what enyoss said earlier: if you cast Howler Wind with Irresistable Force, it doesn't matter, as your opponent can then dispel it in his own magic phase. Bam. "Tactic" dead.

And yes a Mage can take a magic weapon, because he is allowed to use a mundane weapon ;)

neo_ebrick
22-02-2008, 18:09
i do thank all of you for your comments. this is most tactical list i've ever made if i do make some dumb moves i will be torn to shreads. yes, i agree but with my shooting and magic i plan so soften the enemy up a bit. as for my DP's they are strictly for psych. and flank the ranks dont do anything if i flank, and i do get the plus one for flanking. therefor there banner in equal. and i know i'll get more wounds than them unless the dice are cured and i was meant to lose the fight.

neo_ebrick
22-02-2008, 18:13
as for brits yes i've always had a problem with them even with my old council list, there a hard army but as for an all-commers list as this was designed, there are always going to be armys that will win. yes i am going to swap 12 SM for WL thats a really good idea

EndlessBug
23-02-2008, 01:05
flanking should be seen as a bonus not something to expect, people will rarely show you their flanks and say "well I have a banner, it's only fair." So what for, 20 points you get +1 CR, gee I wish I could just pat 20 points continually for that ability! 100 points +5? When you get a gift like that take it! those that shouldn't take it are fast cav and other small easily killed units that will give away victory points.

As others have said, no dispel scrolls so when you come up against a magic heavy list yours will be ripped apart. Skaven warp lightning anyone? agaist 5 DD they usually have 9 PD + 1 bound spell, you can maybe dispel 1 casting and the bound spell every phase, that means you're taking 4d6 str 5 hits a turn... thats roughly 1 unit of SMs. Ok that was the most destructive version but others can easily cover this, 2nd gen slann magic missile maker.

you can NEVER rely soley on a spell, please don't cos if you do you'll find it stopped or fails more often than not. Please don't rely on flank charges either, unless you have a VERY fast army with LOTS of flyers.

If you can fix your magic problem with dispel scroll/s and maybe focus on 3 lvl 3 mages instead all taking shield of saphery? that means protection against war machines, magic missiles and light shooting all in 3 different castings, much more likely to get off the ones you want!