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Earlandir
02-10-2005, 21:33
I have decided to start building a entirely cavalry army (maybe adding bolt throwers/great eagles/shadow warriors or something later). I'm starting with silver helms and am curious to know how to field them, as in unit size and unit formation. Thx in advance ;)

Angelripper
02-10-2005, 23:12
I personally don't field High elves but a friend of mine does. He uses them as Big blocks. 12 man strong with full command, heavy armour and shield. A bid difficult to manoeuvre but quite effective. I should add that they are his main Battleline Unit. They made a decent heavy cav. As mainly DoW player at the moment I would use them same as my DoW heavy cav. in units of 5 as flanking force. But if you really want an all cav army you should probably take the rank bonus.
Think about some Tiranoc Chariots for the special choices. They work great for my friend

just my 2 cents

leeoaks
02-10-2005, 23:46
try a mix...some ranked with command others in units of 5 with no command

Lord Anathir
03-10-2005, 00:43
silverhelms are solid. Also, the all cav route is the easiest way to play high elves. How they should be ranked up is a bit of a argument. Some say that they should be all fielded in msu as in units of 6 with a musicien. However, others (ahem, more prominent players) ie rob lane, think they should be used in ranked up units. Take a look at Rob Lane's all cav army on the high elf gw site. The other behind it is that the characters are not inside units, but ARE THE SUPPORT units themselves. 3 Blocks of Cav (12,10,10), 4 Chariots, 2 Flanking units of reavers, an eagle, a Prince, two commanders and a mage. Thats whati remember from the list anyways.

My choice in an all cav army is a little of a mix. Maybe 2 units of 10, 2 units of 6, 4 chariots, a couple of reavers, maybe 10 dragon princes, and then as many points as i can spend on characters.

shadowprince
03-10-2005, 04:29
lol very original lol. Personally i feel the all clav armies have too many flaws to be used by anyone but the most experince gamers (this is when eldacar jumps in and debates me).
But since tha tisn't very helpful i will give you the two better options
a) small units lots of chariots 2-4 eagle average init size 5. this is the more powerful of the two list but is by far the more difficult to play and if this is your first all calv army don;t bother. (once again eldacar debates)
b) 3 main large units a with a battle standard beaer. USe the prince in a chariot or on a horse as suppor along with the other chariots eagles and fast calv.

The problem with both lists is you at least have to have three characters, an archmage will have no where to hide. So that means a prince and two mages at best.
Cheers.

fubukii
03-10-2005, 07:47
hey man more power too you high elf cavlists are awesome, nice models too!!!!

rather a elf player then another bret ^.^

Eldacar
03-10-2005, 08:45
high elf cavlists are awesome
Sure... if you're a WAACy sort of person. I've grown to dislike the things, though I can't deny that they are very effective and easy to use.


Personally i feel the all clav armies have too many flaws to be used by anyone but the most experince gamers (this is when eldacar jumps in and debates me).
Yup. I disagree with you 100% on that statement. But we don't want to derail the thread now, do we?


a) small units lots of chariots 2-4 eagle average init size 5. this is the more powerful of the two list but is by far the more difficult to play and if this is your first all calv army don;t bother. (once again eldacar debates)
That's the easy one to use, actually. For Hofflenosh reasons.

Lord Anathir basically said what I would have said. Generally, a mix is good. One or two hammer units (one of them can be Dragon Princes if you like big, well-painted units with effectively a "shoot me!" sign on them). Other than that, chariots, some Fast Cavalry in the form of the Reavers, and lots of Eagles. 6 man groups of cavalry, or five if you don't have enough models for a few units of 6, but don't put the full command on them. Perhaps a champion or musician if you have the points, but never go the full command route, the unit is far too small for that sort of thing. Likewise with the Reavers. For them, I'd just get a musician.

Although, speaking of Rob Lane's use of cavalry, it does seem to work (he explained it in a thread on Asur.org a while ago, it was quite an interesting discussion, really). However, I@C, among other things, can very easily screw you to high heaven, so to speak. I'd use it if I wanted to do a novel approach to a battle, but I find the smaller MSU style to work more effectively.

shadowprince
04-10-2005, 05:07
Thank god your back eldacar i was getting bord of no one debateig me welcome back lol. And i won't bother to debate here as it will go into us derailing another thread welcome back.

I can see how rob lanes doesn;t work as he really only has two through away units and niether form prper screens makeing his army have all kinds of problems with artillery, but the basic consept is good, jus tneeds to be done up differently, i might suggest a unit of twlfs then three uits of 6 for support instead of two larger uits gives yuo more speed and mobility.

Eldacar
04-10-2005, 06:16
I can see how rob lanes doesn;t work as he really only has two through away units and niether form prper screens makeing his army have all kinds of problems with artillery, but the basic consept is good, jus tneeds to be done up differently, i might suggest a unit of twlfs then three uits of 6 for support instead of two larger uits gives yuo more speed and mobility.
It does work. It's just more "difficult" if that is the correct word, requiring more effort to make it happen the way you want it to.

The units of 12 and 6 are part of the Hammer and Anvil approach. Units of 12 have much more power behind them, but the way that the characters are the support units is what makes the list effective.

shadowprince
06-10-2005, 04:30
Rob lane's really seems as it mght not work as well against some armies. Especially ones with means of singling out characters.

ithilmar
07-10-2005, 12:35
I play with a mainly infantry army so i usually use units of 5 or 6 including a commander with only the champion.

ElfGuy
07-10-2005, 17:41
For a main battle unit I recommend using 5 Silver Helms or Dragon Princes with the full command group, a War or Ellyrion Banner, and a mounted Commander with heavy armour and a great weapon. That will form a quite devestating line of six knights without locking 300+ points in a single unit. While large ranked up units of cavalry can deliver some static combat resolution, the most cost effective way to field cavalry is in a line.

For support cavalry you'll want 5 Silver Helms or Ellyrion Reavers with no upgrades of any kind other than heavy armour/shield on the Silver Helms.

A good cavalry list should max out on Great Eagles and field at minimum four Tiranoc Chariots. A Griffon riding Prince is a good addition at 2000 points, at 2500 or more a Dragon doesn't seem as costly. For the actual army you'll want at least 2 main battle units of cavalry and at least 4 units of support cavalry. A standard list will include a couple Commanders and a scroll caddy for character support.

Earlandir
07-10-2005, 18:17
Thx for the response. I've rethought the army list:

5 Dragon Princes: Full command and commander with great weapon.
6 Slver Helms: Full Command
6 Silver Helms: Full Command
5 Silver Helms
5 Ellyrion Reavers
4 Tiranoc Chariots
4 Great Eagles
1 Archmage
2 Mage: Level 2

I may have to cut some stuff, but that's roughly my current army list thought. What do you think?

Eldacar
08-10-2005, 10:13
You have plenty of support in there, which matches the MSU style of multiple small units. Although, there isn't really one big "hammer" unit there. You can add it if you wish, but it isn't absolutely necessary. It's more a situational thing, from my experience.


commander with great weapon.
Lance & Shield > Great Weapon.

shadowprince
10-10-2005, 05:12
Well the problem with the absense of the hammer unit is nothing for you MSU army to support. The basis of an MSU army is tons of small supporting u its for conter charging and flanks etc. There for things that can occupy a lot of the bord and hold their flanks to stop you flanks AKA horde armies, especially good orc players, can get at least several of your small calvary units into at least 2 rounds of static combat. And look at it this way a unit of 20 combat res 3 ranks and outnumber so you start with having to kill four off the bat. Now this is were edlacar disagrees at least to an extent and claims if you work this army right you will never not have a flank or combined charged, and i am very interested n seei g your response,

Eldacar
10-10-2005, 06:31
Well the problem with the absense of the hammer unit is nothing for you MSU army to support.
You might not need a hammer unit for your units to support, if you do it right. Only one hammer unit, however, can be vulnerable, because your battle plan tends to become more centered around it. Which means that if you lose that unit, you're in trouble.

shadowprince
11-10-2005, 00:41
True but it tends to be somwhat hard to do it exactly rigth every time. Especially against good generals that know how to disrupt you battle plan.

Eldacar
11-10-2005, 06:48
The same is true of any army, shadowprince, not just HE. If they disrupt your battle plan, you're in trouble.

shadowprince
12-10-2005, 03:26
Not really as in battle plans can work better if improvised, as you really don't know which army you sould be playing or what style they will be useing. Battle plans should be develpoed as the game goes, certian armies can adept better than others though.

Eldacar
12-10-2005, 10:28
Not really as in battle plans can work better if improvised, as you really don't know which army you sould be playing or what style they will be useing. Battle plans should be develpoed as the game goes, certian armies can adept better than others though.
If you have a set plan, and stick to it well enough, then he will have to respond to you. When you start reacting to him, you run into problems, because he is both one step ahead of you and is dictating the course of the game. And that leads to you losing. Winging it, while useful from time to time, isn't necessary in the cases I've encountered, because there was no need to.

shadowprince
14-10-2005, 22:35
excellent point. But i wasn't talking about reacting to him on the improv. I meant takein an improv bAttle plan per oppenent. U can still go offensivly and the best part bout silverhelm armies is u have the speed.

Eldacar
15-10-2005, 04:19
Changing your plan per opponent? All plans depend on what your opponent has or doesn't have. A direct cavalryhammer charge, for example, won't work against rank upon rank of horde infantry, so you modify your plan accordingly before the game begins, and stay with that plan all the way through. However, when you abandon that plan, you can lose control.

Although as a very wise man once said, "No battle plan survives contact with the enemy." Which is true, to a point.

shadowprince
15-10-2005, 16:26
both true. and i am going to stop arguring becuase we are once again bringing down the post cheers