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Moral Wiz
21-02-2008, 15:21
Sorry, but I couldn't find a thread for asking small, soundbite style questions, so..

Ok; what is the distance between Cypra Mundi and Port Maw? (Long? Short?)

Where is the best source for details on Port Maw? All I know is that it's a navy bastion. Is it a fortress world? A forgeworld?

And to what extent are the Cain novels canon? Anything in there not reliable?

Mechanicus
21-02-2008, 16:02
Sorry, but I couldn't find a thread for asking small, soundbite style questions, so..

Ok; what is the distance between Cypra Mundi and Port Maw? (Long? Short?)Not too far - I'd estimate 5,000 l/y.

Where is the best source for details on Port Maw? All I know is that it's a navy bastion. Is it a fortress world? A forgeworld?That would be the game Battlefleet Gothic, where Port Maw featured in the sector. Don't know too much about it myself, but the game's rules and background are on the SG site.

And to what extent are the Cain novels canon? Anything in there not reliable?As canon as everything else. Just beware that Cain is an old man at this point, so his memory might not be great, so any problems with his stuff you can write off. Mainly, though, Mitchell seems to be reliable when it comes to background.

Moral Wiz
21-02-2008, 16:10
Not too far - I'd estimate 5,000 l/y.

So, a resonably short warp jump? The sort of thing minor ships would do?


That would be the game Battlefleet Gothic, where Port Maw featured in the sector. Don't know too much about it myself, but the game's rules and background are on the SG site.

Ah, Ok.And what is society like on forgeworlds? They tend to be ad-mech controled, right? So, one big Ad-Mech temple? Only, Cypra Mundi is also a navy bastion. Any further details of that world?


As canon as everything else. Just beware that Cain is an old man at this point, so his memory might not be great, so any problems with his stuff you can write off. Mainly, though, Mitchell seems to be reliable when it comes to background.

I was thinking of his stuff on imperial society, the existance of popular holovids, news shows, bad cinema equivelents ect. That rarely gets brought up outside inquisitor novels (the greatest of which, Eisenhorn, Ravnor and the Inquisitorial War trilogies are debatable) Thanks.

Brother Siccarius
21-02-2008, 16:26
I was thinking of his stuff on imperial society, the existance of popular holovids, news shows, bad cinema equivelents ect. That rarely gets brought up outside inquisitor novels (the greatest of which, Eisenhorn, Ravnor and the Inquisitorial War trilogies are debatable) Thanks.

They're also mentioned in the HH series with "remembrancers" who detail the fight of the great crusade (some of which is referenced in both the Cain and Ghosts series). The fact that Mitchell references Abnett's works might have something to do with that, but then, they're also the only two 40k writers I've seen that regularly touch on the civilian society of the Imperium.

Pop Holovids and news shows also show up in Gaunt's Ghosts: Necropolis depicting a pop hero.

Mechanicus
21-02-2008, 16:28
So, a resonably short warp jump? The sort of thing minor ships would do? What do you mean by minor ships? I'll assume you mean small traders. If you mean all in one go, then no - minor ships wouldn't have a navigator, and would have to use the on-board computer, which would need to make a thousand short jumps. They could still get there, and Port Maw's an important world so they would be heading there.


Ah, Ok.And what is society like on forgeworlds? They tend to be ad-mech controled, right? So, one big Ad-Mech temple? Only, Cypra Mundi is also a navy bastion. Any further details of that world?The AdMech would be in control, and the Cult Mechanicus would be in ascendancy. There would likely be an Astropathicus station either in orbit on the ground, though. There would be a large servitor and menial underclass and a small elite of tech-priests, each probably more pretentious than the last. ;)

Anyway, onto Port Maw - not much to tell. It's the sector headquarters, and so is very important to the area. Has extensive defences.


I was thinking of his stuff on imperial society, the existance of popular holovids, news shows, bad cinema equivelents ect. That rarely gets brought up outside inquisitor novels (the greatest of which, Eisenhorn, Ravnor and the Inquisitorial War trilogies are debatable) Thanks.If there's nothing to contradict it, then I say they're fine. :)

Moral Wiz
21-02-2008, 17:08
What do you mean by minor ships? I'll assume you mean small traders. If you mean all in one go, then no - minor ships wouldn't have a navigator, and would have to use the on-board computer, which would need to make a thousand short jumps. They could still get there, and Port Maw's an important world so they would be heading there.

Hmm.... semi-related question, a navigator dosn't need to be "Attuned" to any one ship, right? So they could just waltz on to such a trader, and show them the way?


The AdMech would be in control, and the Cult Mechanicus would be in ascendancy. There would likely be an Astropathicus station either in orbit on the ground, though. There would be a large servitor and menial underclass and a small elite of tech-priests, each probably more pretentious than the last. ;)

Hmm... This is interesting....The AdMech have to be treated with care by the IoM at large, right? Say, an inquisitor wants to conduct an investigation here. how are the AdMech likely to react if he tells them straight off? Could he inquire openly, and expect compliance? Will he have to act in secrecy? Or would somewhere between the two be best?

And would control by the AdMech be official? IIRC they sometimes retain planets as their own, right? (Mars being a prime example)


Anyway, onto Port Maw - not much to tell. It's the sector headquarters, and so is very important to the area. Has extensive defences.

Any equipment to actually manufacture ships?


If there's nothing to contradict it, then I say they're fine. :)

YAY! Thanks:D

Goruax
21-02-2008, 18:25
Hmm.... semi-related question, a navigator dosn't need to be "Attuned" to any one ship, right? So they could just waltz on to such a trader, and show them the way?

As far as I know, Navigator's simply navigate ships through the warp. They aren't connected to a ship, but they usually have a special room which has null wards and other measures to protect them in certain cases which could put them at risk, so some smaller ships might not have them, and so Navigators might not want to travel with them.




Hmm... This is interesting....The AdMech have to be treated with care by the IoM at large, right? Say, an inquisitor wants to conduct an investigation here. how are the AdMech likely to react if he tells them straight off? Could he inquire openly, and expect compliance? Will he have to act in secrecy? Or would somewhere between the two be best?

I'm a bit dusty on how the Inquisition works, but I think they'd just do it. They'd obviously ask for assistance, and the AM would most likely give it within reason. However, no matter how loyal, almost all factions, from the largest to the smallest, have secrets they will go almost any lengths to hide.
Sometimes secret investigations would be required, but that depends on who and what is being investigated.


And would control by the AdMech be official? IIRC they sometimes retain planets as their own, right? (Mars being a prime example)

Yes, effectively. All major factions within the Imperium can effectively 'own' planets. The Inquisition has Saturn and her moons, Mechanicus has Mars and many Forgeworlds, etc.

Mechanicus
21-02-2008, 18:35
Hmm... This is interesting....The AdMech have to be treated with care by the IoM at large, right? Say, an inquisitor wants to conduct an investigation here. how are the AdMech likely to react if he tells them straight off? Could he inquire openly, and expect compliance? Will he have to act in secrecy? Or would somewhere between the two be best?An Inquisitor will have to be fairly influential to get to visit a Forgeworld, let alone investigate there, and that's with no outstanding quarrels with the Inquisition and after years of petitioning. They'd likely ask for the case details and offer to investigate it themselves, with their own internal security organisation. If, however, the Inquisitor was very influential (enough to be an Inquisitor Lord, probably), then he/she would be more likely to be able to get this done a little quicker. If the Forgeworld itself was seriously threatened, then I think the Mechanicus would let them in under close guard and assist their investigations.

The Inquisitor could go there in secret, and so long as he wasn't found out, he would be fine. But if he was, a diplomatic incident could ensue, and everyone else (including fellow Inquisitors) probably wouldn't like that too much... :)

The reason the Inquisition can't just waltz in and shoot the Fabricator-General of the Forgeworld is that the Mechanicus claims that the Treaty of Mars is not subject to the Inquisitorial mandate, since the mandate gives them authority over any Imperial subject, and the Mechanicus, by the Treaty of Mars, are allies to the Imperium, not subjects despite nominal status in the Adeptus Terra. The Inquisition, of course, disagree. ;)

Because both organisations are so influential, these arguments get nowhere fast with neither side willing to back down, especially on their own turf. Confronted away from the Forgeworlds, a tech-priest would be more likely to do as the Inquisitor says.


And would control by the AdMech be official? IIRC they sometimes retain planets as their own, right? (Mars being a prime example) Yep - their Forge, Knight, Research, Weapons testing, etc, worlds are 'ceded' to the Mechanicus, and are completely under their control.

Any equipment to actually manufacture ships?I think so, but not extremely extensive - the defences that the planet has makes me think it is designed to be self-sufficient, so it might well have orbital shipyards.

YAY! ThanksNo problem. :)

Hector
21-02-2008, 18:39
Hmm... This is interesting....The AdMech have to be treated with care by the IoM at large, right? Say, an inquisitor wants to conduct an investigation here. how are the AdMech likely to react if he tells them straight off? Could he inquire openly, and expect compliance? Will he have to act in secrecy? Or would somewhere between the two be best?

And would control by the AdMech be official? IIRC they sometimes retain planets as their own, right? (Mars being a prime example)

Any equipment to actually manufacture ships?

YAY! Thanks:D

Yes, yes and yes.

Imagine the Inquisition as a holy MI5 (FBI, KGB take your pick) they can openly request that you hand over all the info they equire but they will also do some snooping around in order to get all the information they want, don't forget the Admech are incredibly secretive, right down to what they look like is regularly hidden, so the likelyhood of them handing over everything is way out, (we're talkin cat in hell with a cold)

Yes they regularly retain planets, Vostroya is just such a planet, so kind of tells you what its like. On the subservient under class, they would most likely be mainly Human with few augmentations and then slowly decrease in number the more augmentation that gets done. There is a strange smell to every Admech planet as peopel are recycled and turned into the basic food source/blood of all the Skittarii.

Just like now, the Marine Imperialis has dockyards to build refit and generally maintain ships. Merchant men and the like will also have dockyards, harbours and docks that they have to get maintainance from. Equipment is generally controlled by Tech Priests so you'd probably see tonnes of their servitors of various levels trundelling around carrying out a variety of jobs.

Hope that helps.

Contemno Mortis
21-02-2008, 20:12
I think port maw is infact just a massive (MASSIVE) space station I thought, the world its above is a dead world with massive bunkers where all the ammunition required for the warships is stored if I recall correctly.

Moral Wiz
21-02-2008, 21:16
As far as I know, Navigator's simply navigate ships through the warp. They aren't connected to a ship, but they usually have a special room which has null wards and other measures to protect them in certain cases which could put them at risk, so some smaller ships might not have them, and so Navigators might not want to travel with them

Perfect. How hard are these warded rooms to make?


Yes, effectively. All major factions within the Imperium can effectively 'own' planets. The Inquisition has Saturn and her moons, Mechanicus has Mars and many Forgeworlds, etc.

The Inquisition holds all the moons of saturn? I missed that. I knew the Grey Knights had Titan, but all the moons? Which Ordo got what?


An Inquisitor will have to be fairly influential to get to visit a Forgeworld, let alone investigate there, and that's with no outstanding quarrels with the Inquisition and after years of petitioning. They'd likely ask for the case details and offer to investigate it themselves, with their own internal security organisation. If, however, the Inquisitor was very influential (enough to be an Inquisitor Lord, probably), then he/she would be more likely to be able to get this done a little quicker. If the Forgeworld itself was seriously threatened, then I think the Mechanicus would let them in under close guard and assist their investigations.
To visit it "officially", or to get in atall?

And how effective is AdMech internal security?


The Inquisitor could go there in secret, and so long as he wasn't found out, he would be fine. But if he was, a diplomatic incident could ensue, and everyone else (including fellow Inquisitors) probably wouldn't like that too much... :)

Probably the best option. Can regular people visit Forgeworlds? I mean, the IG and Administratium aren't the only ones who use the services of the Tech Priests. You'll also have merchants, and traders (Though Rogue Traders are less likly, those guys never did like the easy life). Could any of those guys get in? How about possible converts?

Hay. That's a thought. Travel to a forgeworld is the one time in 40k someone might technically leave the IoM legally:D. What would that mean? Customs checks? Security checks? Every check they can think of?



The reason the Inquisition can't just waltz in and shoot the Fabricator-General of the Forgeworld is that the Mechanicus claims that the Treaty of Mars is not subject to the Inquisitorial mandate, since the mandate gives them authority over any Imperial subject, and the Mechanicus, by the Treaty of Mars, are allies to the Imperium, not subjects despite nominal status in the Adeptus Terra. The Inquisition, of course, disagree. ;)

Because both organisations are so influential, these arguments get nowhere fast with neither side willing to back down, especially on their own turf. Confronted away from the Forgeworlds, a tech-priest would be more likely to do as the Inquisitor says.

Oh, don't you love old feuds? Great. He's got no plans of ordering around TechPriests, but... well, it is their soil.

If his ID is not confirmed, but suspected after he leaves, what'll the AdMech do? If they've not got any real evidence of who he was?



I think so, but not extremely extensive - the defences that the planet has makes me think it is designed to be self-sufficient, so it might well have orbital shipyards.

What class of ship could they create? A cruiser?



Yes they regularly retain planets, Vostroya is just such a planet, so kind of tells you what its like. On the subservient under class, they would most likely be mainly Human with few augmentations and then slowly decrease in number the more augmentation that gets done. There is a strange smell to every Admech planet as peopel are recycled and turned into the basic food source/blood of all the Skittarii.

What about a two power world, if one "officially" AdMech? It's known to be a Navy bastion, and a place they get officers from. I'm guessing it focuses on the orbital shipyards, and producing ship equipment. I'm not sure how much control the AdMech have of the world, probably great, though as there is still a noble class somewhere (noted as the source of naval officers), it might not be total.


Just like now, the Marine Imperialis has dockyards to build refit and generally maintain ships. Merchant men and the like will also have dockyards, harbours and docks that they have to get maintainance from. Equipment is generally controlled by Tech Priests so you'd probably see tonnes of their servitors of various levels trundelling around carrying out a variety of jobs.

Hmm... Who'd control it from a political standpoint? I can see a drawn out argument between the Navy and the AdMech as to who is responcible for an imperial Orbital (which makes it navy) dockyard (which makes it AdMech) Normally, it wouldn't come up, whoever is there in more force would claim responsibility, but on Cypra Mund both sides are suposedly there in more or less equal numbers. (the Navy has a major fortress and staging point there)

Thoughts on that?

Hector
21-02-2008, 21:47
Dual power doesn't really work at a planetary level. Most likely the planet would have an Imperial Government with Admech Advisers. As Dark Apostle gives us a glimpse at. For naval bases, the entire planet below would be geared to Ship Building and Ship parts, if you consider just the sheer number of men onboard a single vessel, there would need to be five to seven times that number just on land to grow food, produce the munitions, spare parts, and all this is before you start looking at recruiting. Because of all these things the Planet would fit more into the hands of the Terran govt rather than a Martian one.

Orbital Dockyards etc would be Navy run without a doubt, just as the Royal Navy does here and US Navy does in the States. Tech Priests et al would be in a higher abundance than usual but it would still be a Naval Base rather than an Admech place that Imperial Ships went to to refit. Cypra Mund, though I know little about this place specifically, sounds like the sort of place I'd expect to see. The Orbital Dockyards would be governed by the Imperium, namely the Navy, but staffed by mainly Admech, hence my previous post about Servitors.

Its a shame in a way that scarabs got taken by Necrons, It would have been great to imagine in teh midsts of teaming Praetorian sized labour servitors, little Rat sized robots whizzing around to do maintenance (Spillage on Aisles 1-2, decks 4-20)

As for class of ship that it could build, in space you are only limited by the nearest bodies gravitational pull. Provided that could be adjusted for, there's no limit to what size vessel could be produced. Space in the Dockyard would affect how many could be done and to an extent yes they would restrict you building larger vessels than were the biggest, but all in all there would be no limit... provided the materials were coming up from the Surface.

If you want more ideas on how a navy works, look at Horatio Nelson's fleet when there were land Navy and Sea Navy, the Land Navy were predominantly farmers. Maybe Wiki has something.

On the note about what the Admech might do after the Inq has left. Well they're litterally everywhere and more often than not they know more than the Imperials due to the nature of their knowledge hording. Its possible they could find out who he wwas from something as simple as a DNA signature and once they work that out they could have tabs put on him.

Goruax
21-02-2008, 22:13
Perfect. How hard are these warded rooms to make?

I don't really know much more than that to be honest, and I'm not sure where you could find any more info.
They're most likely built by the Mechanicus, as with almost all machines within the Imperium.



The Inquisition holds all the moons of saturn? I missed that. I knew the Grey Knights had Titan, but all the moons? Which Ordo got what?

So I'm led to believe. Again, don't know that much about it.

Mechanicus
21-02-2008, 22:29
To visit it "officially", or to get in atall?

And how effective is AdMech internal security?To visit it officially, though visiting it unofficially would be hard. It would involve an inside job, without a doubt. There, blackmail is your best friend. The internal security we have little-to-no idea about we have a name (Collegiate Extremis) and that they are very Arbites-like. I'd say they're at least as effective as Arbites, but that's opinion, and the effectiveness rather depends on the quality of its members, which is variable.

Probably the best option. Can regular people visit Forgeworlds? I mean, the IG and Administratium aren't the only ones who use the services of the Tech Priests. You'll also have merchants, and traders (Though Rogue Traders are less likly, those guys never did like the easy life). Could any of those guys get in? How about possible converts?They could probably go to orbit. From there, tech-priests would load the ships up I expect. Given that the Forgeworlds themselves are the AdMech's sovereign and sacred territory, they're not too keen on others defiling it with their unworthiness. ;)

Hay. That's a thought. Travel to a forgeworld is the one time in 40K someone might technically leave the IoM legally. What would that mean? Customs checks? Security checks? Every check they can think of?If someone manages to get permission to go down to a Forgeworld, then I would definitely think it's customs and security checks, servo-skull cameras following them, armed observers, and many more security redundancies.


Oh, don't you love old feuds? Great. He's got no plans of ordering around TechPriests, but... well, it is their soil.

If his ID is not confirmed, but suspected after he leaves, what'll the AdMech do? If they've not got any real evidence of who he was?They'd probably request an account (with evidence) of their presence during the suspected break in, and if they're suspicious enough (and things were done that were serious enough), I can imagine orders being spread to inconvenience him - tech-priests misplacing his data when he accesses an official cogitator, noticing 'defects' with his equipment when he gets it checked and pronouncing the machine spirit as dead due to spiritual injuries, etc.


What class of ship could they create? A cruiser?I would expect so - thinking about it, I can't see a problem with it having quite large shipyards and being able to create battleships, since some relatively ordinary Imperial worlds have been known to create cruisers. The Mechanicus can't complain - the actual docks would be their holy territory for all intents and purposes despite nominal Navy command, with a mainly Mechanicus staff.


What about a two power world, if one "officially" AdMech? It's known to be a Navy bastion, and a place they get officers from. I'm guessing it focuses on the orbital shipyards, and producing ship equipment. I'm not sure how much control the AdMech have of the world, probably great, though as there is still a noble class somewhere (noted as the source of naval officers), it might not be total.If the AdMech have a large presence on a world, it means there will be more holdings of the Mechanicus - imagine large complexes of Forge-temples and Manufactories sitting right next to an Imperial chapel and hab-block. Two different cultures living side by side. The difference is that the Mechanicus will still (even if the planet is mostly Mechanicus) be subordinate to the Imperial Governor until the planet is ceded to the Mechanicus. The governor and the government would, of course, be heavily influenced by the Mechanicus culture, but there would be no actual command of the planet for the Mechanicus.


Hmm... Who'd control it from a political standpoint? I can see a drawn out argument between the Navy and the AdMech as to who is responcible for an imperial Orbital (which makes it navy) dockyard (which makes it AdMech) Normally, it wouldn't come up, whoever is there in more force would claim responsibility, but on Cypra Mund both sides are suposedly there in more or less equal numbers. (the Navy has a major fortress and staging point there)

Thoughts on that?I'd go with a similar situation with the Adeptus Terra/Mechanicus - nominal Navy command with Mechanicus autonomy.

icegreentea
21-02-2008, 22:29
A lot of the fluff has sections on how lower positions (gun crews for example) have entire generations serving on a ship, and how people currently working there aren't just doing the same thing that their parents and grandparents and so forth did, but were BORN on the same ship.

I also thought that Saturn was a major ship constructing hub. In some HH book (maybe EotF) when talking about the Emperor's Children's ship it said something like 'it could have made the shipwrights of Saturn weep'.

Goruax
22-02-2008, 02:09
I also thought that Saturn was a major ship constructing hub. In some HH book (maybe EotF) when talking about the Emperor's Children's ship it said something like 'it could have made the shipwrights of Saturn weep'.

I'm fairly sure my fluff is wrong on most of what I've said :(
Something's just eating at me, telling me it's wrong...

Gorbad Ironclaw
22-02-2008, 08:03
Regarding the whole Inqusition/Adeptus Mechanicus thing, the Techpriests will go as far as is needed to seem to uphold protocol, but I would consider it very unlikely that they would sanction an inquisitorial investigation on a Forge World. It would have to be some very special case where they really felt they needed the outside expertise. Else they would likely be politely but firmly refusing to allow the Inqusition access, possibly ask for the evidence and carry out the investigation themselves. And I would imagine they are fairly effective at that. Remember, half the Priesthood sided with Horus, they are bound to have a large and effective internal police force, including there own version of a secret police/Inqusition.

As for what happens if they capture an Inquisitor on a Forge World without premission. I suppose it very much depends on the situation. But I wouldn't give it bad odds that he isn't heard from again, with the possible exception of someone seeing a servitor that vaguely looks like him.

Moral Wiz
22-02-2008, 17:14
Ok, this is all looking good. Thanks guys. :D

Some more questions

How quick is astropatic communication? Can Astropaths work on ships in the warp?

Is there a Navigator house generally associated with the Inquisiton? Any that's known to be highly disciplined? (Above the norm)

What's the closest known Schola Progenium (Or whatever it is) world to Cypra Mundi? Facilities? (Or do the schola operate all over the place, with facilities on various worlds)

And how good is the data security amongst the Adeptus Astra Telepathica? How hard would it be to mess with their records of something? (Yes, the psyker's will remember themselves, but that's another point)

[[Yes, when I said Random, I meant it. ;p]]

Hector
22-02-2008, 18:31
I think houses are more readily associated with Space Marine Chapters, though that's only a nagging feeling that I've read it somewhere.

Other than that I haven't a clue, I'm more of a Navy man...

Quick question... I feel like this is going somewhere like a story... what you asking this information for?

Moral Wiz
22-02-2008, 18:42
I know houses have been associated with SM chapters; was just thinking if the Inq would tend to patronise one

Oh well. Any house fit the "highly disciplined" thing?

And talking of the Navy... what's it's command structure like? I know they are disconected from the IG, but that's about it. Similar? The one source I have on the navy suggests arrogance and protocol being the order of the day (The Arbites books, such as Crossfire and Blind) Is this likely to be true in a place that's "Old Navy" a bastion for centuries?

And yes, it is related to a story. The starting point is a newly appointed IQ being assigned to an investigation on Cypra Mundi. It's a major way point for the IG after the 13th black crusade; as it's where the Navy are sending at least some reinforcements from IIRC. And one or two heretics found in the cadia system mentioned connections there.

As to the other questions? Well, it's long and complicated (Plus slightly spoilery) But it is indeed story related.

Hector
22-02-2008, 18:59
And talking of the Navy... what's it's command structure like? I know they are disconected from the IG, but that's about it. Similar? The one source I have on the navy suggests arrogance and protocol being the order of the day (The Arbites books, such as Crossfire and Blind) Is this likely to be true in a place that's "Old Navy" a bastion for centuries?

Yes, is the short answer. Not too much is known, what is know is they are generally what would be considered brill cream boys. The officers are incredible uptight whilst in port and demand total respect from all membersof the Imperium, they do all the legwork they feel. They are incredibly proud of what they do and that they are isolated from the universe, risking all in the name of the Emperor. In many ways they see themselves as doing the riskiest job, think about it you're surrounded by a constant vaccuum with the chance of being wiped out by a warp strom or your Gellar field crashing whilst in Warp.

The crew however are more interesting. Certainly they take their jobs seriously, especially as they remember exactly where they are, but they also know how to have a laugh. Its even romoured that their commisars are less stringent, due to the knowledge they have of Naval men. So around your inquisitor yes they would but when away they're not so bad.

I know that was slightly puzzling, but if you add your own flare, a touch of what the navy today is like for pomp and circumstance and you won't far off.

Can't wait to read it, I think the Navy is one part of the Imperium that gets neglected. Chapter 16 of Dark Apostle. I mentions a dictator Class cruiser and how its Navigators can still see the Astronomicon. Interestingly, it mentions indentured slaves working in the ship, but I've also read that ships crews are freemen and recive salary, usually spent in dockyard brothels and on lho sticks... (Smoking Lho sticks is detrimental to your health and may cause death)

Mechanicus
22-02-2008, 19:08
How quick is astropatic communication? Can Astropaths work on ships in the warp?Probably very quick. Not instantaneous in my mind, but probably it would take a few days to a week or two.

Is there a Navigator house generally associated with the Inquisiton?Nope - it's too much of a disparate organisation for that. An individual Inquisitor might patronise one single Navigator House, but not much else.
Any that's known to be highly disciplined? (Above the norm)I need to get back to you on this - I know an article with several large Navigator houses, and so they might be prime candidates.

What's the closest known Schola Progenium (Or whatever it is) world to Cypra Mundi? Facilities? (Or do the schola operate all over the place, with facilities on various worlds)A multitude of worlds (though not every worlds), so I say make one up.

And how good is the data security amongst the Adeptus Astra Telepathica? How hard would it be to mess with their records of something? (Yes, the psyker's will remember themselves, but that's another point)Once past the armed guards and vitrifiers (assigned to watch an astropath in case of daemons), a tech-priest, such as a cogitator, digitalist, digitalist-major or magos digitalis, could crack it. On the other hand, an Inquisitor him/herself should do all right, since an Inquisitorial code gets you into pretty much anything.

[[Yes, when I said Random, I meant it. ;p]]No problem. :D

And talking of the Navy... what's it's command structure like? I know they are disconected from the IG, but that's about it. Similar? The one source I have on the navy suggests arrogance and protocol being the order of the day (The Arbites books, such as Crossfire and Blind) Is this likely to be true in a place that's "Old Navy" a bastion for centuries?As to command structure, possible and confirmed ranks can be found here (http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50584) (read through the topic, since there are two different views and the debate isn't resolved, and then choose the one you like best); 'Old Navy' would definitely be supreme on or around Cypra Mundi.

Moral Wiz
22-02-2008, 19:14
Hmm.... Very interesting. The more I think about it, the more important the Navy are becoming here. Thanks. :D

Where is Port Maw in relation to Cypra Mundi? Is it closer to Cadia, or further?

And, assuming that many ships are now going through Cypra Mundi, to shore up Cadia, how big a ship would be routinely docked? A cruiser?

How about the guys on Orbital Stations, dockyards ect (as the start of my story will take place on one) Are they more relaxed?

And what are imperial dockyards like anyway? Standard sort of space station? Anything unusual?

Mechanicus
22-02-2008, 19:28
Right, on those Navigator houses - M'edici, Locarno, Hals-Viati, Sixtus and Davor-Jarni are some of the Great Houses, and the last known Paternova was Paternoval Navis Nobilite Francisco M'edici 14th.


Where is Port Maw in relation to Cypra Mundi? Is it closer to Cadia, or further?Port Maw is closer to Cypra Mundi than Cadia, and Port Maw is in fact on the opposite side of Cypra Mundi to Cadia. ;)

And, assuming that many ships are now going through Cypra Mundi, to shore up Cadia, how big a ship would be routinely docked? A cruiser?Cypra Mundi would get battleships docking occasionally, and a good few cruisers as well. And many, many escorts, but that's besides the point. :)

How about the guys on Orbital Stations, dockyards ect (as the start of my story will take place on one) Are they more relaxed?Dockyards would be much more relaxed, orbital stations much less so.

And what are imperial dockyards like anyway? Standard sort of space station? Anything unusual?Don't think we know much, but I would imagine a large, long space station, orbiting the planet with multiple docking tubes extended outwards at long regular intervals.

Moral Wiz
22-02-2008, 20:05
Thanks again for the answers, Mech. These are all , as always, most useful


Probably very quick. Not instantaneous in my mind, but probably it would take a few days to a week or two.[/quote

Ok, thanks. And does it work whilst actually in the warp?

[QUOTE=Mechanicus;2378797]
I need to get back to you on this - I know an article with several large Navigator houses, and so they might be prime candidates.

Thanks again for this.



A multitude of worlds (though not every worlds), so I say make one up.

Ok. Actually, as we're on Cadia's doorstep, I'll use that.



Once past the armed guards and vitrifiers (assigned to watch an astropath in case of daemons), a tech-priest, such as a cogitator, digitalist, digitalist-major or magos digitalis, could crack it. On the other hand, an Inquisitor him/herself should do all right, since an Inquisitorial code gets you into pretty much anything.

Ah. Sorry, confusion on my part. I meant the group responsible for Sanctioned Psykers; the sort that serve with the guard on the ground, ect. Is it the same group?



As to command structure, possible and confirmed ranks can be found here (http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50584) (read through the topic, since there are two different views and the debate isn't resolved, and then choose the one you like best); 'Old Navy' would definitely be supreme on or around Cypra Mundi.

I'll take a look Thanks. :D

Moral Wiz
22-02-2008, 20:16
Right, on those Navigator houses - M'edici, Locarno, Hals-Viati, Sixtus and Davor-Jarni are some of the Great Houses, and the last known Paternova was Paternoval Navis Nobilite Francisco M'edici 14th.

What was a Paternova? And are the houses centralized enough to have a base? Are any of those bases close, but not in, the area?

And what sort of equipment does it take to make and attach Bionics? How many techpriests needed? Could 1, experienced tech-priest,(Magos or above) given time and materials, fit out a guy with high quality implants?


Port Maw is closer to Cypra Mundi than Cadia, and Port Maw is in fact on the opposite side of Cypra Mundi to Cadia. ;)

Well, that's one less place to have to write about. (for now at least):D


Cypra Mundi would get battleships docking occasionally, and a good few cruisers as well. And many, many escorts, but that's besides the point. :)

So, both A; A cruiser is likely to be docked at any one point in time, and could be found easily enough and B, no shortage of traffic to the Cadian system?


Don't think we know much, but I would imagine a large, long space station, orbiting the planet with multiple docking tubes extended outwards at long regular intervals.

Sounds good. What about defenses? Any? Or reliant on ships? Interior? City like, or military/AdMech instillation?

Hector
23-02-2008, 09:43
And what sort of equipment does it take to make and attach Bionics? How many techpriests needed? Could 1, experienced tech-priest,(Magos or above) given time and materials, fit out a guy with high quality implants?

Now you're talking business. Medical facilities around the Imperium fit people with bionics all the time, as its more than likey that it would be a doctor type that does it I'd say that the Techpriest Magos could probably look at a raw lump of metal like a girder and within a couple of hours built a required implant yes. The quality would onlly really be determined by the quality of the resouces used.


So, both A; A cruiser is likely to be docked at any one point in time, and could be found easily enough and B, no shortage of traffic to the Cadian system?

If you think about how great a threat Chaos is and the sheer amount of materials required to keep them at bay, I would say its not surprising if there were thousands of ships in the lanes around Port Maw or Cypra Mundi heading for cadia. As cruisers are a steady and abundant class of ship, I wouldn't be surprised if a new one came in everyweek.


Sounds good. What about defenses? Any? Or reliant on ships? Interior? City like, or military/AdMech instillation

I found these two pictures:

Mechanicus
23-02-2008, 09:45
Ok, thanks. And does it work whilst actually in the warp?Not sure - I don't think so; I remember a source saying so, though it was a planet bound psyker rather than one on a ship, so I can't be sure.

Ah. Sorry, confusion on my part. I meant the group responsible for Sanctioned Psykers; the sort that serve with the guard on the ground, ect. Is it the same group?They come from the same group, but sanctioned psykers would just be assigned guards. Not much more, I should think.

What was a Paternova? And are the houses centralized enough to have a base? Are any of those bases close, but not in, the area?The Paternova is the ruler of the most powerful House at the time, and is on the Navigator Palace on Terra. Each large house has holdings on Terra and around the galaxy where some of the family will usually reside at any given time. :)

Sounds good. What about defenses? Any? Or reliant on ships? Interior? City like, or military/AdMech instillationSome defences, but probably quite reliant on ships. The interior would probably be a mostly AdMech installation, but the Navy would have a small but powerful presence on board, and there would be shuttle bays to get down to the planet so the crew can leave their ships whilst they're being repaired/refuelled/etc. I would imagine there would be living areas as well on board for those who prefer to stay with their ships. Hector's picture is of a Ramillies class Star Fort, but it's very close to the kind of design I'd expect. :) I'm sure there's been a picture of a fan-made dock published in a GW source - I'll try to find it.

Hector
23-02-2008, 10:21
There has, I'm still looking for i now. I'm not so sure about it being a mainly Admech installation. If the Navy was Admech I'd not be bothered but soething doesn't sit right. I think it would mean too many Admechs wandering around... Something doesn't quite sit right there. I'd expect a lot of Naval personnel working on their vessels whilst Admechs did little jobs. Don't forget the Imperium still have engineers and Artificers that aren't admech linked that can do a lot of the mechanical and system work for vehicles, craft and the harbour itself. But then, I've never seen anything written down that tells us either way.

I agree tthough about the defences, from all the picyures I've seen, I reckon it would have enough fire power to defend its self against light to medium escorts but I'm almost sure they'd need some sort of "coast guard" to protect each docking station. I'd expect lots of Aquila Landers and Arvus Lighters, travelling between the surface and harbour its self.

Moral Wiz
23-02-2008, 10:31
Not sure - I don't think so; I remember a source saying so, though it was a planet bound psyker rather than one on a ship, so I can't be sure.

Hmm.... Leave that for now.


They come from the same group, but sanctioned psykers would just be assigned guards. Not much more, I should think.

What does the process of sanctioning involve? Tests, training ect? Given the
resources and inferstructure, could it be done on a good sized Hive world?


The Paternova is the ruler of the most powerful House at the time, and is on the Navigator Palace on Terra. Each large house has holdings on Terra and around the galaxy where some of the family will usually reside at any given time. :)

What are they like from a personality PoV? Any perticular trends, or just human? How do they view their lot in life?


Some defenses, but probably quite reliant on ships. The interior would probably be a mostly AdMech installation, but the Navy would have a small but powerful presence on board, and there would be shuttle bays to get down to the planet so the crew can leave their ships whilst they're being repaired/refuelled/etc. I would imagine there would be living areas as well on board for those who prefer to stay with their ships. Hector's picture is of a Ramillies class Star Fort, but it's very close to the kind of design I'd expect. :) I'm sure there's been a picture of a fan-made dock published in a GW source - I'll try to find it.

Interesting. What would it's interior defenses be like? Would it have a garrison force? Of what quality?


Now you're talking business. Medical facilities around the Imperium fit people with bionics all the time, as its more than likey that it would be a doctor type that does it I'd say that the Techpriest Magos could probably look at a raw lump of metal like a girder and within a couple of hours built a required implant yes. The quality would onlly really be determined by the quality of the resouces used.

Working Solo? And away from AdMech facilities? (Possibly Medical ones insted) But with (comparitivly) good equipment and first class materials?


If you think about how great a threat Chaos is and the sheer amount of materials required to keep them at bay, I would say its not surprising if there were thousands of ships in the lanes around Port Maw or Cypra Mundi heading for cadia. As cruisers are a steady and abundant class of ship, I wouldn't be surprised if a new one came in everyweek.

How quickly would they be fitted up? Would it be that unreasonable for one to be ready to leave at a moment convienient to the plot?


I found these two pictures:

Thanks. I'd say there's enough space in there for a firefight or two. ;D

Hector
23-02-2008, 11:01
If a techpriest enginseer could get into the Medical store of bionic parts, ther's not really must limit to what he could do, including making a robot I suspect. So I reckon he coud do it yeah. Doctors could also do it, I know there was a Necromunda book based on dodgy bionic parts going to gangers, so it can't be too difficult.

Well modern submarines take around 4 monhs in dry dock to fully refit. But then we don't have servitors, robots or indeed the machine spirit (that we know of)

So I reckon, depending on what state she was in, a vessel would take somewhere betweent 1 to six months to fully refit. That said, all ships carry a crew of artisans such as Artificers and Carpenters that if the parts were on board, they could do the refit in space. So if there was need of a quick get away, say a Pearl Harbour moment, you could do it, but the ship might be hampered for a while. The cruiser may also have to break out of the escort "coast guard" too, something the captain might not be too happy about.

I'd say security would be disciplined but its experience minor, perhaps a cross between PDF and Arbites. Sure their hard, but not compared to a Storm Trooper and definatley not against a Marine.

I'm about to write a short story on a Marine Fleet, one that hunts Eldar and Chaos fleets. Regulary checks in at various ports, including Port Maw. So thanks Mechanicus for helping me too

NashTrickster
23-02-2008, 11:12
IMHO, the pics posted by Hector largely underestimate Port Maw's size... I'd imagine it closer to the version built by the US GW team for their BFG site.

Port Maw (as built by the US GW team):
http://us.games-workshop.com/games/bfg/scenarios/images/portmaw_lg.jpg

And for scale purposes, next to a ship (notice that the ship is merely "docked" next to one of those huge hangar bays!):
http://us.games-workshop.com/games/bfg/scenarios/images/docked.jpg

Mechanicus
23-02-2008, 11:17
There has, I'm still looking for i now. I'm not so sure about it being a mainly Admech installation. If the Navy was Admech I'd not be bothered but soething doesn't sit right. I think it would mean too many Admechs wandering around... Something doesn't quite sit right there.There are a lot of tech-priests. ;)
I'd expect a lot of Naval personnel working on their vessels whilst Admechs did little jobs. Don't forget the Imperium still have engineers and Artificers that aren't admech linked that can do a lot of the mechanical and system work for vehicles, craft and the harbour itself. But then, I've never seen anything written down that tells us either way.I doubt there is anything either way, but my gut instinct is that the Navy lay-brothers (those who are trained to do tech jobs without being part of the Mechanicus) would do the minor jobs whilst the tech-priests would oversee major repairs, blessings and anything engine related. Still - personal interpretation and all that. :)

I agree tthough about the defences, from all the picyures I've seen, I reckon it would have enough fire power to defend its self against light to medium escorts but I'm almost sure they'd need some sort of "coast guard" to protect each docking station. I'd expect lots of Aquila Landers and Arvus Lighters, travelling between the surface and harbour its self.Yep, agree there.

What does the process of sanctioning involve? Tests, training ect? Given the
resources and inferstructure, could it be done on a good sized Hive world?Newly found psykers get taken to Terra on the Black Ships of the Adeptus Astra Telepathica and if they are deemed worthy, become soul bound if necessary, and then they are trained and eventually sanctioned.

What are they like from a personality POV? Any perticular trends, or just human? How do they view their lot in life?Dependent on the Paternova I think - they are brought up to become heirs apparant to their House and so I'd think they are mostly proud of their position. Some would most definitely be haughty, perhaps arrogant, since they would well know of their unique and powerful position in the Imperium.

Interesting. What would it's interior defenses be like? Would it have a garrison force? Of what quality?Probably it would have a lot of security doors in case of damage and hull punctures. Beyond that, I'd imagine Naval provosts would be the main security. Well trained, but a little inexperienced in actual combat against real enemies.

Working Solo? And away from AdMech facilities? (Possibly Medical ones insted) But with (comparitivly) good equipment and first class materials?Solo with assistants (or servitors). Equipment and materials all depend on how much you're willing to pay, but on the orbital there'd not be that many of very good quality. You'd probably be looking at the planet for that sort of thing.

How quickly would they be fitted up? Would it be that unreasonable for one to be ready to leave at a moment convienient to the plot?I'm sure there'd be at least one of the hundreds of ships repaired and waiting for clearance to leave at any one time. The chance would be less if it's a military ship you're talking about, though.

I'm about to write a short story on a Marine Fleet, one that hunts Eldar and Chaos fleets. Regulary checks in at various ports, including Port Maw. So thanks Mechanicus for helping me tooNo problem - glad to help and discuss. :)

Moral Wiz
23-02-2008, 11:18
If a techpriest enginseer could get into the Medical store of bionic parts, ther's not really must limit to what he could do, including making a robot I suspect. So I reckon he coud do it yeah. Doctors could also do it, I know there was a Necromunda book based on dodgy bionic parts going to gangers, so it can't be too difficult.

Sounds good. Thanks :D


Well modern submarines take around 4 monhs in dry dock to fully refit. But then we don't have servitors, robots or indeed the machine spirit (that we know of)

So I reckon, depending on what state she was in, a vessel would take somewhere betweent 1 to six months to fully refit. That said, all ships carry a crew of artisans such as Artificers and Carpenters that if the parts were on board, they could do the refit in space. So if there was need of a quick get away, say a Pearl Harbour moment, you could do it, but the ship might be hampered for a while. The cruiser may also have to break out of the escort "coast guard" too, something the captain might not be too happy about.

Yay! Free character development :D And how likely are the crew to all be on board at the right time? Any event that's get them all on ship?

Oh, and how long would it take to get away and engage the warp drive safely, from a standing start (No prior knowledge, until you need to get away)?


I'd say security would be disciplined but its experience minor, perhaps a cross between PDF and Arbites. Sure their hard, but not compared to a Storm Trooper and definatley not against a Marine.

Just right. Enough to be able to handle, say, a large group of passably armed and skilled Chaos cultists with a few lesser Daemons, but not enough to be expected to do so quickly? And who'd be in charge of it? The Navy, or AdMech?

Hector
23-02-2008, 11:31
Your welcome

With the officers of the watch, the junior officers responsible for each crew, they could get them all back on board really fast. Say an hour tops provided they were all in the port and not on planet. Men run to their ship when any alarm sounds that is there action station call. I know I'd run with everything I had if lesser daemons turned up. So if cultists somehow got to the harbour, they'd leg it, bear in mind they will be unarmed.

Not sure how long it would take, some say minutes others say you nedd to be far enough away not to suck the station in with you. I'd say the captain of any ship worth his salt, would attempt to aid teh station, then get far enough away via propulsion/thrusters, before hitrting the big red button to go WHOOSH

I'd say that the Station guard would struggle against the daemons but the cultists would be easy work. Imagine rioters vs National Guard/the TA

Moral Wiz
23-02-2008, 11:32
Newly found psykers get taken to Terra on the Black Ships of the Adeptus Astra Telepathica and if they are deemed worthy, become soul bound if necessary, and then they are trained and eventually sanctioned.

Oh. That's... irritating.

All sanctioned psykers are taken to Terra? Every imperium psyker, including Librarians, astropaths, Navigators, inquisitors... all are trained there?

How do they prove it? I mean, Terra is a long way away from most of the offices of the Telepathica. Do they need certificates, or what?


Dependent on the Paternova I think - they are brought up to become heirs apparant to their House and so I'd think they are mostly proud of their position. Some would most definitely be haughty, perhaps arrogant, since they would well know of their unique and powerful position in the Imperium.

Hmm... thanks. :D
[QUOTE=Mechanicus;2380444]
Probably it would have a lot of security doors in case of damage and hull punctures. Beyond that, I'd imagine Naval provosts would be the main security. Well trained, but a little inexperienced in actual combat against real enemies.


Security doors.... so, parts of the station could be sealed off relitavly easily? :evilgrin:How much authority would that take?



Solo with assistants (or servitors). Equipment and materials all depend on how much you're willing to pay, but on the orbital there'd not be that many of very good quality. You'd probably be looking at the planet for that sort of thing.

Sorry, I should have been clearer. This is totally unrelated to the start of the story, It'll probably be on a hive of some description. Would that work OK?



I'm sure there'd be at least one of the hundreds of ships repaired and waiting for clearance to leave at any one time. The chance would be less if it's a military ship you're talking about, though.

Hmm... less, but possiable?

Contemno Mortis
23-02-2008, 11:35
Can't wait to read it, I think the Navy is one part of the Imperium that gets neglected. Chapter 16 of Dark Apostle. I mentions a dictator Class cruiser and how its Navigators can still see the Astronomicon. Interestingly, it mentions indentured slaves working in the ship, but I've also read that ships crews are freemen and recive salary, usually spent in dockyard brothels and on lho sticks... (Smoking Lho sticks is detrimental to your health and may cause death)

I always thought the serving crews could be either volunteers or press ganged men. Given that the structure points in BFG are partly meant to represent the crews a crippled cruiser would need a lot of new crew members, probably more than would readily volunteer on a world with no real naval history, suppose thats why the navy has armsmen and provosts.

Moral Wiz
23-02-2008, 11:46
With the officers of the watch, the junior officers responsible for each crew, they could get them all back on board really fast. Say an hour tops provided they were all in the port and not on planet. Men run to their ship when any alarm sounds that is there action station call. I know I'd run with everything I had if lesser daemons turned up. So if cultists somehow got to the harbour, they'd leg it, bear in mind they will be unarmed.

Hmm... How spread out on the station might the men be? All over the place. or reasonably close to the ship?


Not sure how long it would take, some say minutes others say you nedd to be far enough away not to suck the station in with you. I'd say the captain of any ship worth his salt, would attempt to aid teh station, then get far enough away via propulsion/thrusters, before hitrting the big red button to go WHOOSH

No outside attack. No ships hitting them, and no Vox reports of attacks in the remainder of the station. The cultists were inside already, and are launching a surgical strike against the Inquistor. No chance of them having the firepower to take the station (Not on their to do list anyway, they need it to remain under imperial control). The captain probably won't know what's going on until the guy with the rosette backs into his ship whilst being fired at and screams "Get us out of here". He'll be, to say the least, a tad off balance (And will yell at the Inquisitor about it afterwards)

And I was thinking of just how long would it take them to pull out from the station.


I'd say that the Station guard would struggle against the daemons but the cultists would be easy work. Imagine rioters vs National Guard/the TA

Thanks.:D

Oh, and would the guard be centralized? Or would it have small offices all over the station?

Hector
23-02-2008, 11:51
That and sailors always get roudy. Just ask anyone from plymouth, portsmouth or anyone who remembers Rosyth before it closed.

That would make sense if some of the more labour tasks were met by endentured men. That said, I reckon, with the right spin, the recruiting officer could recruit enough to make up maybes 60-70% of the crew with volunteers, its not like they can get off easily once they're on board!

As for pread out, spot the nearest bar, brothel, communications station, and chapel, that where they wold be when not on board ship. Most married men send communications to families when not in space (can I refer to it as at sea just so I don't have to keep hitting the delete key) but the rest of them will be praying for safe travel, thanksgiving for their safe arrival and then getting slaughtered in the pub with a few beerskis and a nice dose of lho (remember what I wrote before, lho sticks are detrimental to your health and may cause death) You probably wouldn't be able to smoke onboard ship, its not good for the mechanics to have all that soot and ash lying about. The younger men would be playing pranks on each other and after the pub probably head for the nearest brothel with the youngest member of the crew to "initiate" him into adult naval life

If the ship can get out fast, then it will, if it can. If the captain is ordered to send his Storm Troopers and Gunners in to tackle the insurgents he will. Don't forget the Navy hate Chaos more than most. Gellar feilds stop the daemons breaking through the warp and killing the crew, but sometimes you can still see them. Ghostly characters that try to strike at you. To get around this sort of issue, the captain might be ordered by the Inquisitor to move out quickly. In which case, as the crew would be legging it for the ship anyway, once they were all aboard and could be cast off they could break away from the station, turn, travel at least a mile and then jump. Any closer would be disasterous. The navigators also have to plot where they are going.

You'd have central garrison and mess hall, along with the arsenal etc. but there would also be smaller outposts of one or two sentries wandering about a sector. A bit like you see with the police force today.

Mechanicus
23-02-2008, 11:57
Oh. That's... irritating.

All sanctioned psykers are taken to Terra? Every imperium psyker, including Librarians, astropaths, Navigators, inquisitors... all are trained there?

How do they prove it? I mean, Terra is a long way away from most of the offices of the Telepathica. Do they need certificates, or what?Well, they're all processed there. Whether they're trained there has been somewhat brushed over. You might be able to have a Scholastica Psykana elsewhere, on an important world. As to how they prove it, it hasn't been said, but I imagine they're branded or something similar - the Imperium isn't one to go for paper when hot metal on flesh is all the more permanent (and gothic) ;)

Security doors.... so, parts of the station could be sealed off relitavly easily? How much authority would that take?An Inquisitor's authority could easily do it, though the captain (or whoever's in charge of the station) would probably be able to authorise it as well.

Sorry, I should have been clearer. This is totally unrelated to the start of the story, It'll probably be on a hive of some description. Would that work OK?That would be fine, I expect. :)

Hmm... less, but possiable?Oh, yes. Certainly possible - you can just say that clearance to leave takes time to be given (bureaucracy and all that), and so his crew's in the local pub waiting to leave.

Your story sounds good though. :)

Moral Wiz
23-02-2008, 12:11
Well, they're all processed there. Whether they're trained there has been somewhat brushed over. You might be able to have a Scholastica Psykana elsewhere, on an important world. As to how they prove it, it hasn't been said, but I imagine they're branded or something similar - the Imperium isn't one to go for paper when hot metal on flesh is all the more permanent (and gothic) ;)

Heh. Ok; and who keeps records of Psykers that have been processed? The black ships? the guys on Terra? The Administratum afterwards? Anyone? (Do they need to? When there are countless psykers comming through daily, and they can just brand you, and have done with it?) Where would such data be stored? (and how secure is it? Can you guess what I'm thinking of here?)


An Inquisitor's authority could easily do it, though the captain (or whoever's in charge of the station) would probably be able to authorise it as well.

How about a Heretical sorcerer, with a large power-base built on mind control, who's been infiltrating the station for some time?



Oh, yes. Certainly possible - you can just say that clearance to leave takes time to be given (bureaucracy and all that), and so his crew's in the local pub waiting to leave.

Or have all just come off parade? Or just docked? That'll work. Thanks.


Your story sounds good though. :)

I appreciate the complement. I've still got some things to work on, but it should be interesting.

Oh, and how will someone respond, after having a Inq rosette shoved in their face unexpectedly? How common is the knowledge of what the rosette means? The sort of thing you know, or the sort of thing you are told in training, but never expected to have to know about?

Hector
23-02-2008, 12:18
An inquisitorial rosette is the thing of legend. There are stories that never quite make sense so get assumed to be false, so it would be scary as anything!

Mechanicus
23-02-2008, 12:53
Heh. Ok; and who keeps records of Psykers that have been processed? The black ships? the guys on Terra? The Administratum afterwards? Anyone? (Do they need to? When there are countless psykers comming through daily, and they can just brand you, and have done with it?) Where would such data be stored? (and how secure is it? Can you guess what I'm thinking of here?)I'd imagine the Administratum and the Astra Telepathica probably would have records; obviously, an Administratum records world would be moderately (but not very heavily) guarded, but when you're a sorcerer, I would imagine you could use powers of persuasion to get you in. ;) Or cultists might be able to infiltrate is necessary, but you'd need help from inside, I think.

How about a Heretical sorcerer, with a large power-base built on mind control, who's been infiltrating the station for some time? Oh, I'm sure your sorcerer could get the head of the station to do so, then forget the code to undo it.

Or have all just come off parade? Or just docked? That'll work. Thanks. No problem. :)

Moral Wiz
23-02-2008, 13:14
I'd imagine the Administratum and the Astra Telepathica probably would have records; obviously, an Administratum records world would be moderately (but not very heavily) guarded, but when you're a sorcerer, I would imagine you could use powers of persuasion to get you in. ;) Or cultists might be able to infiltrate is necessary, but you'd need help from inside, I think.

Hmm... where would these be located? On Terra, or the System in which the Psyker now works, (Or where he was taken? Or both?)


Oh, I'm sure your sorcerer could get the head of the station to do so, then forget the code to undo it.

I don't want the guy to be too powerful. Would that kind of power for a sorcerer be reasonable?

Mechanicus
23-02-2008, 18:24
Hmm... where would these be located? On Terra, or the System in which the Psyker now works, (Or where he was taken? Or both?)Probably on an Administratum records world in the sector.

I don't want the guy to be too powerful. Would that kind of power for a sorcerer be reasonable?Well if you don't want him too powerful, he could have a cultist force him at gunpoint. Either that, or if he had corrupted a tech-priest, that could do it too.

Moral Wiz
23-02-2008, 18:30
Really running low on questions now ;)

Ok. Thanks again. :D That's about it from me for now. But, since the thread is entitled "Random questions", and we don't have the equivalent of "Ask the Longbeards" in this forum... Anyone else got any short questions that probably won't justify a whole new thread?

Actually, I do have two more questions

1; What is Nemesis Tessera like in the aftermath of the 13th Black Crusade?

2; If the ritual of awarding an Interrogator his Rosette was done there, how important would it be? What sort of crowd would it draw? What sort of room would it take place in? The bigest, fanciest hall they had? A minor little chapel? Somewhere in between?

Mechanicus
23-02-2008, 19:58
What is Nemesis Tessera like in the aftermath of the 13th Black Crusade?Damaged, but still intact and loyal.
If the ritual of awarding an Interrogator his Rosette was done there, how important would it be? What sort of crowd would it draw? What sort of room would it take place in? The bigest, fanciest hall they had? A minor little chapel? Somewhere in between?Depends on the Inquisitor, really.

Moral Wiz
23-02-2008, 20:11
Depends on the Inquisitor, really

Amlathean, with a very mildly radical master (Just a tad easygoing as Inquisitors go. A good hard fighter, and holds a good track record against witches, but he is not a zelous man. His faith is quiet and he's been denied a boatload of influence because of it. In consequence, he's not as fanatical a devotee of the Creed as most inquisitors. Still, no heretical beliefs, and a good track record of exposing and acting against other, worse radicals, so he gets away with it, and is tolerated by most puritans)

Is that resonable BTW?

Hector
23-02-2008, 22:30
Kinda depends on the other inquisitors and how radical he is. Sounds obvious I know. There will always be those Inquisitors that will have a problem with him, but generally sounds like a moderate. It also depends on his renoun, if the Inquisitor is well known in the area for a particular deed, say he freed a planet from a tyrannical renegade but spared the lives of the population, then he would be well recieved. I wrote a story of an Inquisitor that got it wrong, assumed one thing massacred thousands and then got turned into a servitor for his trouble.

People that know what the Inquisition have done are like Conspiracy theorists, even the big battles fought by them are kept low profile, this is supposed to be a secret war that they are fighting after all. So the idea of an Inquisitor arriving would be something like modern day Britain experiencing the return of Mary Tudor... worrying and disconcerting, wherever an Inquisitor goes, death soon follows and no civillian likes the idea of that!

On the other hand, the governing regime would want to show its devotion to the emperor and the Imperium he built. It would change from planet to planet, some would want to seem pious and have the ceremony in a small dedictated Chapel, others would choose the grandest building on the planet.

So really, from the point of view of an author that purley depends on where the Inquisitor was visiting. Remember though, the INQ is like the FBI, no one actually likes to have to deal with them... Innocence is not an excuse after all.

Moral Wiz
24-02-2008, 13:29
Hmm... I'm now actually tempted to start the story with the poor merchant captain that had the task of taking him here. :D

Nemesis Tessera is an INQ held world. It's their stronghold in Segmentum Obscures. That's why I'm wondering.

BTW, how's this for INQ style orders to a minor pawn?

Passenger dispatch

This information is classified; by order of His Imperial Majesty’s Most Holy Inquisition.

****************************

Inquisitor Alarick Vaern; Performing the Emperor’s work in this system

Sergeant at Arms Thadius Tybalt; Assigned to Inquisitor Vaern as bodyguard by order of Lord Inquisitor Drake.

All information contained here is classified; by order of His Imperial Majesty’s Most Holy Inquisition. Inquisitor Vaern is operating under Special Condition, and his identity, and that of Sergeant Tybalt must not be revealed under any circumstances. They are to disembark at the Cypra Mundi orbital shipyards. There you will remain, docked, until such time as they choose to return to the ship.Do not worry about this. Preparations have been made for the abnormality with the station’s staff by astropathic communication.

When Inquisitor Vaern and Sergeant Tybalt return, they must be brought immediately to the nearest secure world, and you shall arrange transport for them to the co-ordinates pre-loaded into your ship’s cognator engine, unless Inquisitor Vaern specifically desires to remain.

In that case, you are to dispatch him to wherever he wishes, through either your own vessel, or a better one if you can find it, and shall send an Astropatic Communiqué to us, explaining his actions thus far in detail. The code words “Terra Dominarte” will be enough for any senior Astra Telepathica representative in the Segmentum to know that you are our servant in this matter.

The emperor protects.

Moral Wiz
25-02-2008, 20:19
Thanks again for all your help guys; I've got chapter one up. Have a look

http://warseer.com/forums/stories-art/129698-flame-against-void-40k-bfg-novel-focusing-around-wh-chaos-eventually-ig.html#post2386718

Hector
26-02-2008, 16:30
The Inquisitorial Oreders would be less nice, sounds ridiculous I know try something along the lines
+++++++++Message+++++++++++++
Conduit Astropath: Grace Virtus
Authorisation: Gamma
From: Lord Inquisitor Drake
To: Commanding Officer ITV (Imperial Trade Vessel) Moon Shine
Re: Voyage to Cypra Mundi
Thought for the Day: Through Discpline, We Prevaile
Orders as follows

Rendez-vous with Inquisitor Vaern at [insert location] for transport to Cypra Mundi.

Vessel has been selected to be commandeered for a mission of grave import. Inquisitor and Retinue are to be deleviered to Cypra Mundi before reembarking.

Further orders will be issued on commencement of voyage from Cypa Mundi Space Dockyard facility.

The Inquisitor's presense on board must be kept only to a "Need to know" basis. It is also crucial that the main body of crew are not informed of the Inquisitors presense.

Should you require the assistance of any Imperial Authority, your key word is .....

You get the idea.

Right I'm off to read Chapter 1

Hector

Moral Wiz
26-02-2008, 16:59
Yep, I know what you mean. Three points.

1; this is a paying contract. The INQ can order people around, but Drake knows well enough that the Velvet Glove can work just as well as the fist (Not to mention the fact that its can be a good deal more unsettling if you expected the fist; the captain get's even more worried by this

2; Minor point, but it's a standing orders thing; not sent by Astropath

3 The INQ do plan to eliminate the captain after this, in case of possibly revealing the actions of Vaern, and his investigation by extension. In a show of morality, Drake decided that he'd leave a nice message for the guy, to try and make sure he dies calm in his mind

Moral Wiz
02-03-2008, 11:16
Question time

How well would a rookie Witch Hunter know Adepta Sororitas symbolism and beliefs ect? Keep in mind, he's had no outright contact with the order, and has had, up to this point, no direct cases of studying them himself

Mechanicus
02-03-2008, 12:39
How well would a rookie Witch Hunter know Adepta Sororitas symbolism and beliefs ect? Keep in mind, he's had no outright contact with the order, and has had, up to this point, no direct cases of studying them himselfHe'd probably know some. Beliefs would be easy - Cult of the Emperor, really, with a bit of pain on the side (self-mortification) which would be less known, and probably not by the rookie witch hunter. Symbols; probably knows of the Fleur de Lis and has seen it once or twice. Not much beyond that.

EDIT: Do you mean Inquisitorial witch-hunter (as in Ordo Hereticus) or Ecclesiarchy witch-hunter (as in jumped up confessor)?

Moral Wiz
02-03-2008, 13:36
Hereticus. Vaerin (Name changed) will shortly get an... active test on Sororitas beliefs and symbolism, and I wasn't certain if he'd be able to manage it alone, or will need help.

Where would the best place be to ask about the Sororitas, outside of the Adepta itself?

Mechanicus
02-03-2008, 17:18
Hereticus. Vaerin (Name changed) will shortly get an... active test on Sororitas beliefs and symbolism, and I wasn't certain if he'd be able to manage it alone, or will need help.

Where would the best place be to ask about the Sororitas, outside of the Adepta itself?Depending on how in depth the test goes, he may well need help. The best source outside the Adepta Sororitas would definitely be the Ecclesiarchy.

Moral Wiz
02-03-2008, 17:33
Ah. That makes things... interesting. :skull:

Thanks. I'll return to asking questions soon, but right now, I want to make headway with the story itself.

One more question first though. Is there a way to quickly reproduce a rather large picture (Think big art frame) in good quality?

Mechanicus
02-03-2008, 17:43
Ah. That makes things... interesting.:evilgrin:

Thanks. I'll return to asking questions soon, but right now, I want to make headway with the story itself.Sounds good.

One more question first though. Is there a way to quickly reproduce a rather large picture (Think big art frame) in good quality?I can't think of one - not unless you have a very large scanner. Worth asking around about though (the question more than the scanner). ;)

Moral Wiz
02-03-2008, 17:46
Very good quality is needed. As well as secrecy. This got very interesting for the Inquisitor; thanks again :D.

Moral Wiz
02-03-2008, 17:54
h, and anything seriously wrong with this place? Any fluff mistakes?

***********************

The Commisar’s Cap was indeed not exactly the bastion of Imperial purity you would have thought from he name. Located just past the Mechanius’ exchange post, the Navy technically owned it, but an enterprising sergeant requested permission to open up “A station R&R area”. It did him good; and he made enough from rifling the pockets of the occasional merchant who had the bad sense to pass out in his bar, to bribe all the right officials. He never got called away from his cushy station post; and died on board the docks. It still drew quite a few troopers, but it became more of a business as time went on.

There was a faded picture on the door, of a man wearing a red and black Commissar’s uniform, standing in what looked like a ship’s corridor, one foot a pile of dead Orks in a stupidly heroic pose. Probably Cain, though no one in the bar could remember who bought it. It might even have been a memento of one of the Naval commissars.

The interior was passable. It wasn’t nice to look at, none of it’s assorted owners over the years had ever bothered with decoration. The walls were grey, the ceiling was grey, the uniforms of the Navy personnel who visited were mostly grey. But the people here didn’t tend to concern themselves with the décor. The Naval linesmen came to drown their sorrows, relax, and perhaps relieve some frustration with a bar fight. The merchants came to gossip, trade and occasionally swindle…

And one or two seedier individuals showed up from time to time. Generally when the Navy was not around, but they weren't too careful about that. The Navy, for all it's pride, could be corrupted. Especially if you only wanted a few favors from an officer who's spent his whole life well out of the line of fire.

Capitan Reian; of the Dock Authority's security bureau for instance

Moral Wiz
02-03-2008, 18:07
Oh, and can someone name me that substance the guard are always using to build stuff quick and cheep. Rock-creet?

Mechanicus
02-03-2008, 18:45
Very good quality is needed. As well as secrecy. This got very interesting for the Inquisitor; thanks againYou could, as said, use a big scanner on 'request' from the Mechanicus, or perhaps a hidden, high spec pict camera to get the image, and then print it hurriedly, but that's even more difficult, and the detail would be worse.

The passage is good - I like it. Especially the mention of Cain! :p Anyway, as to that substance, there's several options - rockcrete, ferrocrete, plascrete and concrete spring to mind. It really doesn't matter which you choose from what I've seen. They may well all mean the same thing. :D

Moral Wiz
02-03-2008, 18:55
Thanks on the passage: :D. There's also a reference to Creed (the general, not the belief) in the next section, when Tybalt and Vaerin are talking about the fleet. And I'll go with Plascrete for the bar (Ugly, bad quality, but cheep; just right for the Cap);)

And theres a while to go before the scanner thing becomes relevant. So I'm going to soldier on.

BTW, how much do augmentics vary? Could you, say, ID a bionic arm intended for combat, as opposed to one for a normal member of society?

Mechanicus
02-03-2008, 19:02
Thanks on the passage: . There's also a reference to Creed (the general, not the belief) in the next section, when Tybalt and Vaerin are talking about the fleet. And I'll go with Plascrete for the bar (Ugly, bad quality, but cheep; just right for the Cap)Sounds good. :)

And theres a while to go before the scanner thing becomes relevant. So I'm going to soldier on.Fair enough - if I think of anything, I'll post.

BTW, how much do augmentics vary? Could you, say, ID a bionic arm intended for combat, as opposed to one for a normal member of society?They can vary a lot, but if it's not for anyone important there are probably set models. In that case, you could probably identify if one is made for combat if you knew much about augmetics or the augmentics trade, or had seen one before.

Moral Wiz
02-03-2008, 19:11
how about a custom made? Harder to place, or outright impossible?

Mechanicus
02-03-2008, 19:49
Bloody difficult - you'd have to recognise high power pistons and other parts, and strong materials. Probably would be easier if you saw it moving extensively. It'd help if it had small spikes on the knuckles and finger joints, but that probably wouldn't happen. :D

Moral Wiz
02-03-2008, 20:04
Hmm... thanks. :D

I think that's all I need. Oh, BTW, what did you think of the first chapter I put up?

Mechanicus
02-03-2008, 21:09
I enjoyed it - much better than anything I can do. ;) Likeable characters, mystery enough to keep you interested and good grammar throughout. :)

Plus it has a tech-priest in it, so I'm automatically interested. :D

Moral Wiz
02-03-2008, 21:18
Thanks :D Let's hope it stays good.

BTW, I ended up naming some 40k cocktails in the Cap. That place is growing on me; I think I'd like to visit it (and considering how dangerous it is, that's saying somthing.;))

It's a shame the story won't stick around Cypra Mundi. I'd like to go into more depth on the area. I think I'll revisit it later.

Oh, and I'm amazed at how much stuff I've got planed out here :skull: Let's just say that it'll only get more interesting from this point.

Mechanicus
02-03-2008, 21:44
Good to hear - getting involved in a setting should help the story feel realistic. :D

Moral Wiz
05-03-2008, 16:43
Ok, another question. Economy this time. What's the basic unit of currency in the Imperium? Dark Heresy has it as Thrones, subject to local variation. Any counter source?

And what'd be a reasonable amount to hire a ship for a cargo run?I was thinking a 50% stake of the cargo, but when that got to, say, 1000 data slates, it exceeded DH's value for noble income in a mounth. Is this right?

Mechanicus
05-03-2008, 17:23
Ok, another question. Economy this time. What's the basic unit of currency in the Imperium? Dark Heresy has it as Thrones, subject to local variation. Any counter source?A few mentions of Credits in (IIRC) Abnett's work and Chapter Approved. No idea beyond that. Might be that the Imperial currency goes by different names in different places or that it's done on a sector by sector basis. You can choose, I would expect.

And what'd be a reasonable amount to hire a ship for a cargo run?I was thinking a 50% stake of the cargo, but when that got to, say, 1000 data slates, it exceeded DH's value for noble income in a mounth. Is this right?We have no idea - but it might be an idea to think about whether the price to buy data-slates is the price that they're sold to the supplier, and that the profits from trading might not be as good as you'd think. Fuel, maintenance, crew, it's all going to cost a hell of a lot.

Moral Wiz
05-03-2008, 17:42
Hmm.... I'll think of something. I personally dislike "throne" because now all imperial citizens swear by their currency.

One unifying currency is not that good an idea IMO, not that much in the style of the IoM. But one measurement of currency works well.

I'm thinking it'd be referred to as "[[Number]]Terran marked [[currency]]" in a conversation between spacefarers. You'd get a load of local currencies, and words for money, but just sticking the phrase "Terran Marked" in fount means you're actually using a single standardized unit, or it's equivalent in local money (say, for simplicities sake, the cost of a lasgun). This'd probably be the way Imperium wide operations work. Some worlds might try to operate on the "Imperial Credit", using the standard measurement as 1, if they get a lot of space traffic, but will tend to use individual currencies, with an administratum board on each world dedicated to keeping track of how the local currency relates to Terran Marked.

Very subject to local fluctuations, exploitable, but works to help tie the IoM together...

is that reasonable? Anything against it?

Mechanicus
05-03-2008, 17:56
Not that I know of. :)

Moral Wiz
06-03-2008, 19:40
Ok. Next question, chaos one this time.

How does mutation work, and how throughly? Is it inevitable that a powerful Chaos Sorcerer would be heavily mutated short of other factors?

Mechanicus
06-03-2008, 21:38
How does mutation work, and how throughly? Is it inevitable that a powerful Chaos Sorcerer would be heavily mutated short of other factors?From what I understand (which isn't very much), Chaos mutation comes about through the Chaos powers (probably subconsciously) mutate followers who work for them (I think of it like a payment system; it's automatic whether you've done well or poorly, but if you've contributed to the god's power, you will likely get something back). It might turn out to be a benefit (acidic blood, or fingernails like knives) or it could be worthless, or even a hindrance (one longer leg, massive chin). It's the luck of the draw, essentially - the Chaos power doesn't care whether it has hindered or blessed the follower; it's got thousands more where that one came from. Of course, in the event of a monumental failure, I expect the Chaos power might notice, and here comes spawndom.

As to how thoroughly... it really depends. A powerful Chaos sorcerer would probably end up quite highly mutated (the majority of mutations being minor, inconsequential things with perhaps one or two being major), but that's only my understanding and I could be wrong.

Hector
12-03-2008, 21:58
Firstly forgive my many spelling mistakes, its late I'm tired and haven't stopped since sunday.

Good work alround on the first Chapter and the Exerpt, I agree with Mechanicus, telling a story should be like recaling a memory, you wnat to go to the places you create. Bear in mind the varios -cretes that exist vary in their strength and so their general abunfdance. The Bar would most likely be More concrete, Rockcrete is general hard stuff used for bunkers, Plascrete, like Plas-Steel, is stronger still, your looking at Govenors bunkers and some larger Cathedrals and Basilicas at that point. I don't know if you want to put that into view on the bar.

On the subject of money, I've been using the Florin and Marck. 100 Florins = 1 Marck, but then that's my personal idea following teh Gothic theme of teh Imperium of man.

As for Mutation, I'd imagine it depends on the god it comes from, Slaanesh and Tzeench would probably act faster that Nurgle. Irf you think that a bacteria at 37 degrees Cenntigrade, requires 40 minutes to reproduce, Human cells take longer. So it depends how you think Warp essence wouild affect the Sorceror. They may be totally Mutation free, or they may have so many you can't tell they were once human. The beauty of teh Immaterium is that it is chaos, utter chaos. Anything could happen to your sorceror. It may be that tehy develope mutations as they caste spels, or it may be that, and this would be slightlly hilarious, they mutate as they caste larger more impressive spells.

Hector