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Milgram
25-02-2008, 10:50
We had a situation yesterday that remained unclear with 5 people looking on it.

two snotling bases were charged by a TK graveswarm (so the swarm was in the middle of the two snotlings), then som usbekis charged on one side of the swarm, 3 chariots (including king) charged on the other side.

It looked like this:

CC CC CC SS UU UU UU
--------SN SN

(un)fortunatelly the ushabtis (who came last, moved in the magic phase) pulled a fanatic which killed one usbeki, did 5 lives on the snotlings and 2 lives on the chariots and killed the swarm. after that the situation altered a bit:

CC CC CC -- UU UU
---------- SN

no, the last snotling did not survive the attack of the ushabti.

at the beginning of the close dombat phase the chariots had no enemy in contact. but... can they make an overrun move? I'd say no because they were not in combat.

(there is of course no discussion about the usbekis - they were obviously in combat).


/edit: one suggested to move the snotling at the beginning of the close combat phase...

SuperBeast
25-02-2008, 11:32
Definitely no overrun as - to get overrun - you have to have wiped out the enemy in the CC phase. AS they aren't engaged from that position, the don't have a CC phase.

I believe (BRB not to hand, so take with pinch of salt) that acceptable options would be to either shuffle the snotlings across to have contact with both at the end of the movement phase, or to move the chariots and ushabti toward each other to fill the gap left by the swarm, THEN move the snotling swarm to maximise BtB.
I think the latter is the preferable one as - by way of ugly simile - it most closely follows the theory behind redressing ranks.
(e.g. the removal of the swarm has created a 'gap' in the fighting line, and so models are rearranged to correct this.)

Like I said, take with pinch of salt and wait for someone with the BRB to hand to clarify if possible...

Milgram
25-02-2008, 11:47
the reforming would be ok if all three units charge at the same time and then the fanatic is pulled. then you could rearrange the attackers. but it happened in the magic phase. and yes, the ushabtis were only like a milimeter away from the snotlings when the fanatic was pulled, but you could argue that the ushabtis would get 2-3 models in contact by reshuffle. but you also could argue that I would have been able to take away the other snotling and therefore cause the ushabtis a failed charge as they eventually had no more enemy in reach&sight - I'll open a new thread for that question :) just popped to my mind...

the final problem in the german version of the book is that the two prerequisites are:

1. you must have charged - done
2. you must have wiped enemies you're in close combat with - enemies 0 wiped 0 done?

SuperBeast
25-02-2008, 11:54
Hang on - if the ushabti pulled the fanatic BEFORE they made contact with the swarm, then they are not in contact and not in combat.

Fanatics interrupt movement, IIRC? (Not too hot on the new fanatic rules).

Festus
25-02-2008, 11:54
1. you must have charged - done
2. you must have wiped enemies you're in close combat with - enemies 0 wiped 0 done?on't have the book here with me (at work), but I am fairly certain that 2. reads: all enemy units in base contact must be eliminated.

I will check on it though when I am home.

Festus

Milgram
25-02-2008, 12:38
Hang on - if the ushabti pulled the fanatic BEFORE they made contact with the swarm, then they are not in contact and not in combat.

Fanatics interrupt movement, IIRC? (Not too hot on the new fanatic rules).

it does not matter imho because the snots still were in combat when the first base was removed but they were not anymore when the swarm was destroyed - the ushabtis were still able to complete their charge. and after the fanatic was moved they had to.

DeathlessDraich
25-02-2008, 12:50
on't have the book here with me (at work), but I am fairly certain that 2. reads: all enemy units in base contact must be eliminated.

I will check on it though when I am home.

Festus


The rules are vague - the phrase is "all its *enemies* have been wiped out"



Definitely no overrun as - to get overrun - you have to have wiped out the enemy in the CC phase. AS they aren't engaged from that position, the don't have a CC phase.

I believe (BRB not to hand, so take with pinch of salt) that acceptable options would be to either shuffle the snotlings across to have contact with both at the end of the movement phase, or to move the chariots and ushabti toward each other to fill the gap left by the swarm, THEN move the snotling swarm to maximise BtB.



pg 46, Milgram.
"removing casualties could force some units to lose contact... move these forward to keep in contact"
And
"some units are no longer engaged with any enemy *unit* "
"Such units ... can move normally"


I think even though the vague word, 'enemies' is used in Overrun, the 2 rules above would support Super Beast - no overrun.

Atrahasis
25-02-2008, 13:18
"removing casualties could force some units to lose contact... move these forward to keep in contact"Applies only when fighting in the flank or rear, and therefore irrelevant.


"some units are no longer engaged with any enemy *unit* "
"Such units ... can move normally"Ah, but would normal movement in such a situation not be to overrun? ;)

Milgram
25-02-2008, 14:57
Ah, but would normal movement in such a situation not be to overrun? ;)


would normal movement normally not also mean that you only use your normal movement and therefore could not issue another charge or use 3d6 (chariots) random movement. ;)