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The_Dragon_Rising
27-02-2008, 17:47
This is my first try at brettonia from lizards. The former being a more winning orientated list over all else i want this to be a more themed list but still winning.

The theme will be a templar force in red and white ala Kingdom of Heaven (bad film but i liked the theme). Thus the requirements are: Grail Relic (ala the massive gold cross the take to battle), low magic (ie one scroll caddy at most), cavalry not totally dominant and no flyers.

To this end i have created the following list which could do with some help. The biggest problem i see with it is the 800+ pt unit but in general C+C is requested.

Lord: Bret Lord w/Grail,Wyrmlance,Shield, Horse, Gilded Cuirass, Virtue of Confidence-262pts (w/Grail Knights)

Hero:Paladin w/BSB,Horse, Grail,Banner of the Lady, Virtue of Discipline-210pts (w/ Grail Knights)
Hero: Damsel w/Barded horse, 2 DScrolls-134pts (w/ Grail Knights)(Does the whole unit get MR1?)
Hero:Paladin w/Virtue of Empathy, GW, Enchanted Shield,Gromril Great Helm, Questing-122 (w/the Grail and pilgrims)

Core: 9 Knights of the realm w/Standard, Gallant-232pts (flankers ideally)
Core: 4*10 Bowmen-60pts ea
Core: 2*25 Men-at-arms w/Standard,Music-140pts ea

Special: Grail w/17 extra pilgrims -271pts (with Men at arms they will try to make a battle line whilst archers guard the flanks and knights flank charge enemies)

Rare: 6 Grail Knights w/Standard -248pts (Hammer+ pointsink however opponent gets no outnumber, no ranks and should lose almost all combats)

Malorian
27-02-2008, 18:17
Is a lance that spits out fire in your theme? ; )

The whole unit does get MC 1 when it has the damsel.

You can't use a shield with a great weapon. Drop the enchanted shield.

I kinda get what you are going for, but it won't work. Those grail knights will be smashed and then you've lost a huge chunk of points.

If you want to do a themed list don't waste points. Don't spend all those points on charaters and elite units and go for what the army should look like. Take more men at arms and less archers, and have knights but go with KoTR or KE.

The_Dragon_Rising
27-02-2008, 19:28
Well i like the lance, most of them don't seem worth the points, ok i have been putting the army into a 'realistic' theme but you never know....act of god?

Ok thanks for that

I was under the impression i got +2 armour from it basic and then +1 from using a shield with HW in combat if not mounted however i could be wrong

Ok i will rewrite a lost and post it tommorrow. More units less elites...got it.

thanks for the help
-TDR

Malorian
27-02-2008, 19:36
Well the enchanted shield is still a shield and you can't use one when fighting with a great weapon.

One idea might be to drop the lord completely and then make the questing paladin the general. Then drop the virtue of Empathy and put him on a horse. Remember that a character on a steed can still join units, and if that steed isn't a monsterous creature then it can't be picked out.

Then the problem is that his great weapon isn't str 6, but he still adds some combat power and can charge out of the unit if needed. I'd also drop the gromril helm and use that questing only item that gives you a 3+ ward when you're down to one wound.

redrum
27-02-2008, 20:12
The theme will be a templar force in red and white ala Kingdom of Heaven (bad film but i liked the theme).

Okay, sorry to go off topic here but I had to comment on this. If you've only seen the theatrical cut do yourself a favor and watch the directors cut sometime. I've never seen a directors cut that makes such a huge difference in a film. I thought the theatrical cut was okay, didn't love it or hate it but the directors cut is brilliant, really. Sorry about the thread jack.

The_Dragon_Rising
28-02-2008, 18:42
Ok here is the second try. More infantry less heros this time. Again any help appreciated

Hero-(general) Paladin w/Grail, Horse,Wyrmlance,Gromril Helm,Shield-147pts
Hero-Paladin w/BSB, Virtue of Empathy,Horse-84pts
Hero-Damsel w/2 DScrolls, Barded Pony:rolleyes:-134pts

Ok well this is a lot less points than i am used to spending on characters but their main aim is to act as anchors for units. The general adds some fire and magic to the knights in case of some enemies and is more survivable. The BSB anchors the core choices. The damsel...magic defence...go figure i spose.

Special: Grail Relic w/11 Pilgrims (note spelling...i am english;)),BSBpaladin-217pts

As much for fluff as power however with Ld8 Stubborn and a better chance at damaging than the men-at-arms they dont appear too bad (anyone used them?).

Rare: 2*Trebuchets-90pts ea

As suggested i dropped the grail knights and in there place have put in something which fits into the theme (afterall there were trebuchets in the film) and should pressure an opponent to come closer to me than they may have otherwise done.

Core:2*10 Bowmen-60pts ea
Core:2*10 Bowmen-65pts ea

Cheap and again they may draw people towards them. The braziers give me the options against flammable targets and are cheap.

Core:2*25 Men-at-arms w/Standard-135pts ea

Again cheap and they add some needed numbers. Straddling the block of pilgrims they should act as a fairly solid line allowing knights to get flank charges.

Core:2*15 Men-at-arms w/Standard-85pts ea

Cheap distractions, possible emergency help and general back up however would not mind losing these if suggested.

Core:6 Knights of the Realm w/Gallant-144pts

Cheap flanking unit to be used with the block infantry

Core:8 Knights of the Realm w/Standard,Gallant, General-208pts

More of a hitting unit than before but again used to support the blocks

Core:8 Knights Errant w/Standard,Errantry Banner,Cavalier, Damsel-194pts

The final flanking unit.


Thoughts on how to improve the list, all C+C welcome.
-TDR

Frep
28-02-2008, 19:10
I'd drop the 15 man men-at-arms unit (now that's a mouthful :) ) and use the points to reinforce your grail pilgrims, but thats entierly up to you. The list looks alright to me, but I'd recomend dropping virtue of empathy (that's the one that gives your peasents a ld bonus right?) because your knights are going to outstrip them far too easily, meaning the 6" leadership bubble increase isn't going to be that useful.

The_Dragon_Rising
28-02-2008, 20:33
Good idea putting the one of the men-at-arms units points into the pilgrims, i will do that.

Empathy is on the BSB who as mentioned is with the pilgrims. Therefore he will not be outstripping the men-at-arms etc and will be granting them LD8.

Malorian
28-02-2008, 21:04
It's good to note that that's 11 EXTRA pilgrams for a total of 17, and with that big model in the center taking up 6 spots it's a big unit (and 3 rank bonus). Plus remember that they are stuborn with ld 8, so I don't think they need the paladin to be with them. I'd put the paladin in a different unit so your 12 inch range isn't wasted on a unit that doesn't need it. You also don't need any more pilgrams in it. This unit is crazy as it is.

A thought on the damsel. Your opponent will have two turns before you hit him with lances. The question is: is the magic damage he is going to do to you woth the price of the damsel? Can they wipe out a unit of 25 men at arms? Or a unit of knights? And how many points have you wasted if they don't take magic? It might be worth it (and better for the theme) to take her out and get more men.

Just some tactics for a mixed list like this:

Send all the knights up one flank and use the small unit to bait if needed. Then up the other flank send the infantry. I would break the two units of 15 into 3 units of 10 to block LOS to the 3 main blocks as you move up. Then you can also use them to control the charge if they survive. Either you move them up so you can run and they fail a charge, or you put them 8 inches ahead of the main block so they kill the 10 and have a hard time overrunning into your block, or you let them wipe out the 10 then overrun into your block and on your turn you charge them on the flanks with your other units.

Edit: Oh, and the list is looking a lot better : ) And please drop the flaming lance... and if anything upgrade 5 points to the lance of artois. Not only will it be better for you game wise but fluff wise it's more realistic to have a deadly paladin who knows how to put his lance in your head rather than a lance that spits out fire...