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malika
04-10-2005, 22:45
Okay we know that the Chaos Gods were created because of all sorts of "negative emotions", fear, betrayal, lust, hatred, rage, etc.

But what about "positive emotions" such as hope, love, happiness etc? Would there be warp powers who absorb those? Would this mean that there could be like "good" Chaos Gods? Look Im not talking about the Emperor here since I dont think the Emperor would be the only one feeding off all the "positive emotions" which are present in the universe.

So would there be "good" daemons and Gods out there?

Sir Charles
04-10-2005, 22:48
Other than the Starchild?

Goblinardo
04-10-2005, 23:15
Chaos Gods feed on 'positive' emotions as well, e.g. Khorne feeds on martial pride, Tzeentch on hope, etc. The 'negative' emotions are more prevalent as Chaos God food because, after all, it is a Grimly Dark Far Future (TM) and 'good' is but a footnote these days.

Then there's the old Gods of Law and Brusilov's "Emperor's Daemons" but that's all another bag of cats.

Sir Charles
04-10-2005, 23:24
Did the Gods of Law ever appear in 40K? I thought they were just Fantasy.

schoon
04-10-2005, 23:33
No, no Gods of Law have ever appeared in 40K to my knowledge.

...and I would think that positive emotions feed the Starchild (or some equivalent entity). It's not something that's really been explored in canon fluff.

This might be because of: The dark aspects of the 40K universe just don't allow for the "goodie-two-shoes" warp-god It's something that's meant to stay "secret," (or simply hasn't yet been developed) such as the Starchild or Illuminati theories

Khaine's Messenger
04-10-2005, 23:38
Well, as Goblinardo said, that's a "bag of cats." One might argue that the Gods of Law are present in 40k, although in ridiculously miniscule strength (you hardly even see them mentioned in present-day Fantasy background, although I'm not well-read in that field), as iirc Brusilov does with his multiverse approach to the Warhammer settings. Even if there's no "evidence" for them as per actual "canon"....

Nazguire
04-10-2005, 23:38
Okay we know that the Chaos Gods were created because of all sorts of "negative emotions", fear, betrayal, lust, hatred, rage, etc.

But what about "positive emotions" such as hope, love, happiness etc? Would there be warp powers who absorb those? Would this mean that there could be like "good" Chaos Gods? Look Im not talking about the Emperor here since I dont think the Emperor would be the only one feeding off all the "positive emotions" which are present in the universe.

So would there be "good" daemons and Gods out there?

Undoubtedly the 'good' emotions have coalesced into something resembling a warp deity. Of course with the whole hope, love, happiness etc they are all aspects of the Chaos Gods as well, particularly Tzeentch and Slaanesh.

But of course there are probably minor deities that are part Tzeentch and Slaanesh in make up without the combination of decadence and scheming thrown into the mix. The Emperor I believe is a Warp God of hope, hence why a lot of the prayers involving the Emperor involve "May the Emperor guide my hand to slay this foe"

Inquisitor Maul
05-10-2005, 05:45
Well the Emperor is pretty much the opposite to the Big 4 (atleast before He had to cast His humanity into the warp in order to slay Horus). If he would be released from the throne, He would posibbly become a true warp power

Sir Charles
05-10-2005, 06:06
Well the Emperor is pretty much the opposite to the Big 4 (atleast before He had to cast His humanity into the warp in order to slay Horus). If he would be released from the throne, He would posibbly become a true warp power
coughstarchildcough ;)

Inquisitor Maul
05-10-2005, 06:14
Damn, forgot to add that... :(

Iuris
05-10-2005, 07:36
Why are we all ignoring all those Saints, avatars of Eldar gods, infinity circuits and similar? Also, who would be able to recognize a good warp entity?

Talkie Toaster
05-10-2005, 09:00
Why are we all ignoring all those Saints, avatars of Eldar gods, infinity circuits and similar? Also, who would be able to recognize a good warp entity?
There is a line of thought that the Eldar gods were artificially made by the OO (since they focus more on concepts than emotions), so they wouldn't be dependant upon emotions (belief, maybe...?).
And likewise, Thorian belief has it that Saints are simply people possessed by the power of the Emperor (as a pseudo-warp-power it makes sense that he may be able to).

Ikkaan
05-10-2005, 11:30
For a power to manifest itself in some way it would need followers. There are plenty of followers of chaos and evil, and a lot of (bullied) believers in the emperor (who isnīt a deity in the formal sense so he canīt take advantage of the religious worship)...and all who want or hope that there is an other deity that cares for their souls are killed for blasphemous heresy.

I guess it sucks to be a lawful or good god in 40k.

Brusilov
05-10-2005, 11:51
I disagree with comments made on the Emperor, that argue that he cannot take advantage of the worship of one of the largest species of the galaxy (beside Orks), while he directly cannot, the Star Child certainly can and this is in fact the whole point, like Ynnead, the Eldar god of the dead, he is a warp power still in the womb.
And I find it a little much to argue that people are forced to worship the Emperor, it would be like saying people are forced to worship Sigmar or were forced to go follow the Christian faith in the Middle Ages. There are some that think they are forced yes, but the vast majority does it of its own accord and believes (to a lesser or greater extent) in the divinity of the Emperor.

And IMHO, it is not so much emotions alone (they can jumpstart a process) but belief and sincere worship that give warp powers their strength. It is worship, as much as emotions (which are included in the worship anyway), that the Chaos Gods crave.

Iuris
05-10-2005, 13:18
And IMHO, it is not so much emotions alone (they can jumpstart a process) but belief and sincere worship that give warp powers their strength. It is worship, as much as emotions (which are included in the worship anyway), that the Chaos Gods crave.

That sounds a bit restrictive, I am led to believe every thought can count, everything mental. However, emotions are stronger and thus show up strongest.

Typheron
05-10-2005, 20:21
what about that theory of The Emperors Demons, based arround the Star Child acting as a warp power and sending out its minions to assist and guide the faithfull.

such as the angel that appeared to mad larkin in one of the Gaunts Ghosts books.

schoon
05-10-2005, 22:23
what about that theory of The Emperors Demons, based arround the Star Child acting as a warp power and sending out its minions to assist and guide the faithfull...
such as the angel that appeared to mad larkin in one of the Gaunts Ghosts books.
I'd say that Angels might be a better term than Daemons in this case, but it's just symantics for an entity or power of the warp.

Would you say that these apparitions are an aspect of the Emperor's personality ... or an aspect of positive daemons in the warp ... or some combination of the two?

Khaine's Messenger
06-10-2005, 00:16
So would there be "good" daemons and Gods out there?

The only "good" gods are those gods tightly bound to the cultures they represent, although to those on the receiving end of a random lightning bolt, such gods might not be so "hot," so such gods are generally ignored or shown in a bad light (but who would argue that the Eldar were more miserable with Bloody-Handed Khaine than with She Who Thirsts?). The Ruinous Powers are godly corporations, industrial-strength deities, supernatural singularities. Their various facets might be "good" in the particular, but the individuality-crushing madness will leak through after a while because the Chaos Gods have no great number of fingers in any one particular pie, no great number of eggs in any particular basket except maybe Mankind, to which it has grown perhaps too accustomed....

Cosmic_Girl
06-10-2005, 00:50
Hi guys,

The Eldar gods were kinda nice when they were about. Does that count? I'm sure they had contructive Warp powers, Eldar Bonesingers can use psychic energy constructively.

C-girl.

Kage2020
06-10-2005, 21:53
The 'fluff' is, as always, open on the matter of 'good warp powers' even though it would appear tht the preference is for the negative powers of Chaos. As mentioned previously the Star Child is an obvious selection for a deity of 'good', and indeed the 'fluff' says as much (i.e. RoC: Latd). Hiding out as he/it is in the 'harmonious' parts of the warp it would not be surprising to find some other deities hanging out there. Of course, one could merely cough and point at the eldar 'fluff', but there we go...

For me 'good entities' do exist in the 40k universe. That's all it normally comes down to: personal interpretation. Surely?

Kage

Exterminatus
07-10-2005, 14:58
It's all a matter of perspective.

An imperial citizen would say that the Emperor is the good god / warp entity.
But what if you are a khornate world eater? Then Khorne is the good god / warp entity, it is Khorne who gives you the power to kill maim and burn :)

Same goes for all the other gods and deity's.