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Negafex
05-10-2005, 02:28
after seeing engels battlesuit topic i decided i should post the suit i made about a week ago. i wouldve posted it in that topic but it doesnt fit the guidelines. without further adue

XV-27 Assault Suit
realatively new to the tau empire the xv-27 assault suit is becoming more widely used and accepted.these specially designed corps of veterans have recieved exclusive hand to hand training. these were designed as a countermeasure to space marines and other such resiliant enemys as close range fighting with them is usually unavoidable.the onboard computer is designed to enhance the tau opperators reflexes and enable them to react to any situation, even when the pilot is unable to move quickly enough.
sorry the fluff is a little short, it will be longer
and here are the stats
WS BS S T W I A LD SV PTS
3 3 4 3 2 2 2 8 3+ 36

special rules

Reactive Assault Matrix- this is the onboard computer. it makes the assault suit always go simontaniously in cc with enemys whose initiative is higher or who automatically go first( ex:howling banshees)

plasma carbine- a smaller version of the plasma rifle. rng 18", s 5 ap3 assault 2

ion sepperator blade- works as a power weapon that gets 2 d 6 ap against vehicles in cc

options- the squad may be bonded

transport- since these suits are realatively small and house no jetpack they may be mounted in a devilfish at + 80 pts

well thats it, its designed to be a counter assault unit. ill have the artwork for it posted probably tomarrow. its already been test played a couple times and some stuff is still being reworked but i think at this point its pretty solid.

Negafex
05-10-2005, 16:18
i tried attaching the picture so well see how it turns out but the scan destroyed the quality. if it works great, if not let me know

Zark the Damned
05-10-2005, 16:33
Sign... yet another person with an 'OMG Tau are ubermecha they should get powerweapons and rock in close combat I love anime Goku could pwn Abaddon' post...

Tau should NOT get a close combat suit. Full stop. Especially one that makes it effectively a monstrous creature in close combat that can always attack.

Tau HATE Close Combat. If they made new suits they would have the 'run away from close combat' button, not frikkin power blades.

Luke
05-10-2005, 16:40
i agree, the tau just dont have the cobbles for cracking skulls.
if the suits were to be given wargear that would help them out in combat, i think it probably would be something that could let it escape from combat, like a super powerful boost, and ejector seat (?) or a force field which restricts the amount of enemies that can get close. (i.e, all models may only attack with 1 attack etc)


but you gotta take the rough with the smooth lad. (and it is a silky smooth ride!)

Negafex
06-10-2005, 00:00
sorry it took so long guys but i finally found my second page of rules and such. i think it might seem a bit uber without them.

-first off they are 0-1
-second is they must always be within 12 inches of the ethereal wich they cannot be used without
third are army limitations- 1) no broadsides or gun drone squads 2) stealth and battlesuit squads are 0-1 3) ethereal must be your compulsory hq 4) fire warriors may not be given a devilfish

sorry i didnt post these earlier, i couldnt find the page. i hope these help them seem a little more even

shutupSHUTUP!!!
06-10-2005, 00:10
Sorry, this idea sucks. You just look like a fanboi with your crazy rules for ninja tau :p

The two shot assault weapon plasma gun is... interesting in itself, but then you give them power weapons and for some reason the ability to completely ignore their low initiative to boot? Also your drawbacks are unjustified and make no sense.

If you are bent on the idea then I wouldn't make them both gods at shooting and close combat for a start, also simply make them 0-1 and an elites choice to compete with crisis and stealth suits.

Brimstone
06-10-2005, 00:13
Sorry, this idea sucks. You just look like a fanboi with your crazy rules for ninja tau :p

Try and be a little more diplomatic please.

Easy E
06-10-2005, 02:17
It really messes with game balance and the idea of the TAU.

I like the sketch though. Keep working on new ideas!

Negafex
06-10-2005, 02:46
if yer just gonna post " this idea sucks" and "tau dont do close combat" then please dont post, thats not wanted here. thanks for the compliment on da sketch though i will get a better pic up soon hopefully. as for rule changes, first is a +5 pts increase, second is they dont have a power wpn anymore, its now just rending. the reactive assault matrix will not be changed cause its one of the things that makes them special. restriction changes are that battle and stealth suits arent 0-1 however broadsides are. and they arent elites anymore, they will be a retinue option for ethereals instead, in which case the ethereal gets changed and ill post his rules soon. these guys are meant to be something different kind of like the court of young kings for eldar, so there is a chance i could make this a special character option. also we are still playtesting them so look for frequent updates and rule changes. constructive criticism welcome. thank you

Exterminatus
06-10-2005, 14:23
You have changed youre model and rules quite a bit now ( no PW, 0-1 ), can you please put up a new background and rules? I would like to see the new rules

- the warseer inquisition

Anvils Hammer
06-10-2005, 14:35
humm.. tau close combat..

firstly, as has been stated, you rules A. go against the fluff and B. ruin game balance, tau just arnt supposed to have CC ability.

if you want them at all you have to tone them down-

steath suit stats but no stealt ability or burst cannon-
disruption glaive- works in the same way as a huge choppa eg 2 handed, +1 strenght
ractive assault matrix- doubles the users initiative and attacks characteristics

0-1 as body guard for ethereal, up to 4 assault suits may acompany an ethereal and may not leave him at any time.


just an example,
dont try and correct the weaknesses of an army by creating a new unit that fills the gap, its like allowing space marine assault squads in an IG army.

Negafex
06-10-2005, 15:52
we test played again today against both inqusition w/ space marines and tyranids. they definitely work better as bodyguards and we believe the need to protect the etherial helps balance them because they arent supposed to be an assault unit they are supposed to be a counter assault measure so that may help explain the reactive assault matrix a little more. the fluff is currently being reworked

here is the new ethereal
super ethereal( need a good name)
WS BS S T W I A LD SV PTS
5 4 4 4 3 4 4 10 4+(inv) 115
he has an extended inspiring presence which allows units to use his leadership in addition to normal inspiring presence rules. hes got a power weapon instead of symbols of office and he is similar to aun shi. he is 0-1

Negafex
06-10-2005, 16:01
sorry i forgot to post some stuff. 1) squad size is 3-5 2) plasma carbine may not be combined with blade for +1 attack

x-esiv-4c
06-10-2005, 18:11
Well, I agree with what a lot of the other posters said. However, I think the unit is too cheap considering what it can pull off.

Mortare
06-10-2005, 18:13
Why the power weapons? They are practically non existent in the background for Tau. Even as rending, they seem a little strong. Just go for standard combat weapon. Doesn't have to be fancy to do the job

Puffin Magician
06-10-2005, 20:07
I won't bother talking about how this unit shouldn't exist at all, that's not what someone inventing a new unit wants to hear. Let's discuss how to change it so it becomes acceptable to the masses.

Adding a crazy amount of army restrictions doesn't balance out a unit that betrays the design of every other Tau unit. Make it balanced and you can throw it into a normal Tau army.

Looking at other units in the army, it's clear to see that the emphasis is not only on shooting, but being able to run away from enemies that come too close. They prefer to make the enemy worse at combat rather than making themselves better. Let's try to incorporate that line of thinking into your rules.

Looking at this unit, it's as if you've tried to combine effects of a Crisis Suit and a Fire Warrior, with a rather jumbled result. Transport in a Devilfish, but statlines like an Xv8? I think you should choose one direction or another, not try and walk down the middle. I'm having a hard time differentiating between the two, and so it's hard for me to think of sensible criticism. I'll assume you want this to remain a small suit of armour rather than a full Battlesuit. That means some changes...


Xv-27 - 36pts. Ws3, Bs3, s4, t3, w2, i2, a2, Ld8, Sv3+
As I said, I'm confused. Either it's a Battlesuit or it's not. I'm going with "not", so that means losing a Wound, an Attack, the 3+ save, and bringing the Strength down to a normal '3'. I'll let Ws3 and Ld8 slide as this is obviously a suit for veterans who've experienced combat before.

So we're at Ws3, Bs3, s3, t3, w1, i2, a1, ld8, Sv4+. Not too much different than a Fire Warrior, I suppose. The differences will have to come with wargear.


Reactive Assault Matrix- this is the onboard computer. it makes the assault suit always go simontaniously in cc
For me, this is the largest problem. This made-up piece of kit potentially raises the Initiative stat by +5. How about something like Photon Grenades [enemies do not gain +1 attack for charging], or something like Warp Scream [enemies that assault have -1 to their Initiative]? Or both?


Plasma Carbine - 18" s5 ap3 Assault2
Again, excessive for the role and a bit too powerful even for an army that likes to shoot things. The majority of people don't seem to be thrilled about proposals for Fire Warriors getting special weapons , and I agree with them. Let's give them a weapon more suitable for their size, but not exactly the Pulse Carbine because then we're just copying Fire Warriors again. The statline for the Pulse Carbine is excellent, but let's change it so we have something special for our unique suits here:

Photon Grenade Launcher: 18" sX ap5 Assault 1 Blast, Disrupt: Units taking casualties by the PGL subtract d3" from their movement the following turn. Things like Warp Spiders and Jump Pack infantry are also affected as the blast is specifically designed to stun the target and allow vital extra seconds for the Tau to fall back and form new firing lines.


Ion Seperator Blade - Power Weapon, 2d6 AP vs Vehicles
This seems very excessive for a counter-charge unit, especially a Tau one. Let's face it, you've simply taken the rules for O'Shova's Dawn Blade. Let's take the rules from someone else: the Ethereal. I think the Honour Blade's bonus of +2 Strength would fit into this role nicely.

So, after all the changes we have the following:

[b]Xv-27CA [Counter-Assault] - 0-1 Elites choice in a Tau Army
Ws3, Bs3, s3[5], t3, w1, i2, a1, Ld8, Sv4+
Weapons: the Xv-27 is armed with a Photon Grenade Launcher and Honour Blades. It may not take any further options.
- Photon Grenade Launcher: 18" sX* ap5 Assault 1 Blast, Disrupt
*The Photon Grenade counts as s1 when firing at vehicles.
- Honour Blades: Adds +2S [already included in profile]
Squad: The squad consists of 4-8 Xv-27s.
Options: The squad may be Bonded for +10pts. The squad may be transported in a Devilfish for +80pts.

How's that sound?

Angelripper
06-10-2005, 20:54
Sure every Tau player would like to have a Unit that strikes at the same time as a Genestealer, with Power weaons to kill Grey Knight Termis and A Marinetoaster at 18" attached to it but that would ruin the game balance completly.
I think Puffin Magicians version would fit in better. Hell with the Assault Suit posted first I'd be able to slash my way through every army. And thats not Tau to me.
Sorry to say so but they should be back to the drawing board.

EmperorsChamp01
06-10-2005, 22:19
Yea im going to have to agree with everyone else. The TAU are not CC specliset(sp). They are a shooty army. Why would they have a CC stealthy guy when they can just shoot them. It doesnt make sence. They already have a Stealth guy and he is a pathfinder and they arm them to the teeth with the big ass guns that they got. You guy does not fit with the Fluff of the TAU and if you want to make a stealth guy like that make him for the Inqusition and no one will bust your chops about it. And see people are alowed to say what ever they want on here. You cant tell them what to say.

Negafex
06-10-2005, 22:35
few things. one is, puffin magician, the points were increased so they arent 36 they are now 41. just to clarify for everyone they do NOT have power weapons anymore. now that we got that out of the way, first change is the wounds are going down to one. the save is not changing. the gun is now assault one and strength 4 but still AP 3, it also only shoots 12 inches. i think the reactive assault matrix may just raise initative to 5 or so but im not sure yet. thats all the changes for now but were still working on it. if anyone has sugestions for the model im open to ideas. one more thing, i seem to be seeing stealth suit pop up a lot, they are in no way part of, made of, or related to stealth suits.
thanks. (pics of ethereal guy up tomarrow)

Puffin Magician
06-10-2005, 23:26
Well I dunno, it seems like you're trying to create a Tau unit that's on par with Grey Knights, Wyches, or Howling Banshees in an Assault; and that's just not right.

I apologize for not noticing your alterations but it's hard to find that easily in a huge tangled paragraph of typing. Please put every new idea in your post on a new line, just to keep it clean and so we can catch the important stuff. :)

People are probably associating this with a Steath Suit because that is the "middle step" between Fire Warrior and Crisis Suit. That's precisely where your battlesuit fits too.

Replacing Power- with Rending- Weapons doesn't exactly re-Tauify your idea, it just makes it a fraction more balanced.

The Tau don't need a unit running around with I5 Rending blades, baby Starcannons and 3+ saves, period. No army does, no matter how many points you slap onto it.

It simply clashes with the entire theme of the army, and that's not an excuse for it's existence. The premise in your primary explanation would not be resolved with combat training, as the Tau see that as barbaric and, well, un-Tau. They'd fend off Space Marines with additional Crisis Suits, Hammerheads, and Barracudas.

Kensai X
07-10-2005, 02:20
Meh, if you want a "close combat" Tau unit it's best if they're not really ever in cc really...

I could possibly see unit of "honor-bound" Tau who's duty is to distract approaching armies and and prevent slow them down as much as possible... So....

Perhaps you could have stealth suits with a 4+ save, no stealth, but still have jets.... Carbine or some low ap low strength "pulse shotgun" and they have special rules for nets, hallucnegens, acids, I don't something...

But they should not be cc specialists just Tau that are designed to keep other Tau away from cc...

Negafex
07-10-2005, 03:31
these guys are supposed to be something of a break away thing like o shovah. it even says in oshovahs fluff that he trains his fire warriors in hand to hand. though this is a bit more extreme than that, ok a lot more extreme but still. i think there is a strong chance that these are going to become a special character deal as the new ethereal guy is lookin like thats the case so it wouldnt as shocking if its a special character. also these guys( the whole force in general) dont use normal tau filosophy. also the guns are now a 12 inch assault 1 strength 5 armor peircing 4 weapon so they arent a marine slayer. plus on a last note there can be a maximum of five in the whole army so they are in no way a tau players solution to the cc problem, just a bodyguard.

SmashemTaBitsa
10-10-2005, 15:58
I don't know much about the Tau myself, but I'm seeing alot of posts about the 'unfluffiness' of this unit. The neat thing about the Tau is that they have an empire built up of many different races. (It appears that the new codex will reflect this better than the current.)

So my suggestion is: If you want a CC Tau unit, a type of strategy the Tau would never use, instead make it say, a leader of one of the Tau Empire's child races, that have gotten the trust of the Tau enough to be granted a stealth suit that they have modified to fit their strategy. This also provides neat modelling possibillities, and basic stat changes.

But remember, even if you are making a new race, don't get too carried away with those stats! Making an Uber will not be fun to play against, nor will it be fun to play with. If you make a bunch of crazy invincible units all the time, it'll become harder and harder to find someone to playtest with.;)

schoolcormorant
07-07-2006, 20:30
it's probably already been said, but, Tau have possibly the best ranged common weapon, i.e. Pulse rifle do they really need close combat, the fluff when they surfaced was that they would thin down the enemy before they hit their lines and any chance of close combat would be lost.
Plus this has already been done i thought the fluff behind farsight was that he trained his troops in close combat thus making him a rebel or somesuch