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LKHERO
03-03-2008, 01:53
How have they effected your play with or against them? How effective are they? What setup have you seen the Prince taken? Game winner, competitive or balanced you would say?

fubukii
03-03-2008, 04:39
Well i take a prince on a dragon with Star lance, Guardian phoenix, Tailsmen of loec, and Armor of caledor, i must say everygame he has earned his points back and i havent even had too much trouble keeping my scaly friend alive (even vs empire i guess i got lucky and took out the cannons b4 they could do enough dmg to my dragon.)

But on the other hand with my rats i have gotten lucky and not had to worry to much about the MOnster. My wlc and jezzails seem to do a good job of killing it ( i seem to get lucky with my wlcs gettin str 8 alot :P with a good range)

All in all used properly with the right terrain and tactics it can be a game breaking unit, but used recklessly it is just a point sink.

Varath- Lord Impaler
03-03-2008, 06:14
Ive faced it once.

I had a unit of 20 Ironbreakers with full command, rune of battle and rune of stoicism (+1 CR and double Unit strength)

I was charged in the front by a Prince on star dragon with the foe bane and 4 Dragon princes (no command units)

First wound of combat the Iron beard challenged the Prince and was killed (only lost 2 wounds though) and the Ironbreakers held against the princes fairly easily.

By the end of the first combat i had won by 2 (3 ranks, standard, outnumber, rune of battle vs standard, 2 champion kills and 1 dead Ironbreaker.

The unit held on for 3 morerounds of combat until a Chariot slammed into the flank.

They held for another round and THEN were beaten and rundown

I love my Ironbreakers.

If i didnt forget about a certain rule (Oathstone giving MR1) my Thane would have survived that magic phase and would have done wounds and beaten both the units!

Dragons are nasty because they can fly. Dont throw them down the throat of the enemy, it just makes them easier to bite.

kroq'gar
03-03-2008, 06:23
When i faced it my cannons (two of them) failed to hit it (thanks to alot of misfires). Then it ran and ate a unit of cavalry.

On the plus side, the amount of points he'd spent in that unit allowed me to destroy everything else on the board fairly easily.

FurryMiguell
03-03-2008, 06:45
I played one the other day. what can I say. It died... Very quicky... without hurting my army! ok, so it killed a gobbo shaman, but that was my cheepest character, and come to think of it, he had killed a unit of knights (or, they fled after he kileld some) the round before, and had done his share.

My experience is that they are not really that good! yes, they are the best dragons, but in a good army, there would be something to take such thingys out! (and in an NG army, lots of thingys:p) For some reason, I still dont have a hard time killing HE, not even with the new rules (though my DE tend to die more often...)

Cheers:D

Dtae787
03-03-2008, 06:57
Ok to the guy who charged the star dragon in the front of an iron breaker unit 20 strong, thats a very bad choice. You fly 20 inches and your playing dwarfs. why in gods name did you charge the front. Also foe bane is a bad item IMO.

In order for you to take advantage of the dragon to make points back, you need to do a few things.

1) You fly 20" use it. Hide behind terrain to avoid them shooting at you. Remember your a large target you will get hit by stuff.

2) Do not charge the front, fly for rear or flank charges and support with combo charges.

3) You cause terror and have a breath weapon. There are 6 turns in the game dont be afraid to stay out of combat for a turn or two if it keeps you alive. You cause terror checks, and panic checks if you cause just ONE wound with your breath weapon.

4) It may seem silly, but if its your only option, charge a war machine. If they have three or so thats about 300 points for you. If they are dwarven, probably more.

5) In the direst of moments, charge a flank or rear alone. You negate ranks, you go in with a flank or a rear bonus, so you are either down by one, or by nothing. You strike first and your dragon is charging so at the moment so does it, as long as the dice gods do not frown upon you, you should win.

My self I run a Moon dragon. Out of all the games I have played he has yet to die once on me (one game my rider was impaled off the dragon but the dragon got that 6 and ripped stuff up)

What kills the beast? If they are dumb with it, or got in a bad spot. shoot it with your warmachines, If you got a character that does D3 or some sort of wounds like that, go for it. But like I said it is very mobile and this will be difficult if your playing a smart player.

In combat try to set up so he has a hard time deciding what to kill, in doing so try to bait him and get on his flank. If you have a flier, put it close but not in the combat, when the dragon runs (lets hope) If u had cav chase it hope it dies, if not hope its your turn its not rallied and rolls low when you charge with a flier. Charge twenty most he can roll is 18. Just hope he didnt flee far when he broke.

All in all easier said then done. Experiment with things on trying to deal with a dragon and his army.

Hope my post helped a bit to anyone who wants to play or kill a dragon.

PS. Not that good eh? Other day In a tourny I got some bad rolls. rear charged a stegasor, it stayed (damn three dice break test!) Then got rear charged by some lizard lord on a carnousour that was more points then my moon dragon prince. I won combat again and killed the generals carnosar, and the general ran off. Killed the steg and continued my rampage around. Lost the game to the guy though, he was an excellent general.

Also I was useing a moon dragon not even the star :)

Jagosaja
03-03-2008, 07:15
The guy I play fields Prince with 1+ rerollable Armor Save and 4+ Ward Save, wields Great Weapon and stuff. On Star Dragon that unit is damned hard to kill! So I swarmed it with skellies with War Banner in the front, and Grave Guard on the flank. I never managed to take a single wound as I always challenged with skeleton champion, but I won every round on Combat Resolution, and he fled once. You just cannot hurt it in combat, so instead just challenge it and break it on numbers.

Dtae787
03-03-2008, 07:22
As far as I know, If you are on a dragon you cannot get a 1 up save. He may have been shafting you on that. if he is taking the armor of caledor which is a 2 up and combining it for a 1, he cant the save cannot be modified by other items.

Only way you can get a 1 up is through magic armor shield heavy armor and a barded steed.

Jagosaja
03-03-2008, 08:06
Yep, I just checked it and it was 2+, my mistake. Sorry. But still, he a s nasty as hell.

Johnnyfrej
03-03-2008, 09:31
I haven't played against these new Dragons but I bet a few Great Cannons will make Dragon-jerky outta them!

-Private Jon

Da Black Gobbo
03-03-2008, 09:50
Well my gobbos will a have a great time facing it but i think a couple spear chukkas will handle it with ease. Also Magic is a good think to do against it, Mork's foot (i think) is the one that causes 1d6 str 6 hits on the target without LOS can be very handy.

fubukii
03-03-2008, 14:29
i wouldnt mind charging my dragon with a back up unit of elf cav vs a unit of 20 iron breakers, id accept with my cav champion then the dragon gets 10 str 7 attacks vs the unit (4 ignore armor).


Now im not sure why he charged the ironbreakers though you always kill the warriors first to make a flank charge possible :P

TK421
03-03-2008, 18:04
Mine always die in the 1st or 2nd turn *sigh*

LKHERO
03-03-2008, 21:24
What are the Dragon's prime targets when the game begins? I assume start him off behind woods and then fly towards the enemy War Machines? :O

Dtae787
03-03-2008, 21:46
Start behind woods, hills, impassable, anything that can stop LOS. Keep him out of sight by moving behind enemy units, or behind terrain. try to stay out of the way of war machines. A dragons prime target is large block units, preferably elite ones, or ones with characters in it. (avoid anything that is potentialy deadly to you in one round of combat, IE Khorne Lords)

only hit the war machines if you HAVE to. You should have great eagles or fast cav to deal with war machines.

shadizzle
04-03-2008, 06:10
there easy 2 kil all u need 2 do is charge them with a bloodthirster and watch what happens

kroq'gar
04-03-2008, 06:25
there easy 2 kil all u need 2 do is charge them with a bloodthirster and watch what happens

So you charge a rediculas pointsink with an even more rediculas pointsink... he could just redirect your thirster and flank you. i believe the sound he'd make would be 'pop'.

Admiral Samuel Eden
04-03-2008, 06:26
There nasty, but we adapt, and we triumph.
Dragons are horrid but they pay for it in points and their still vulnerable to shooting like the rest of us. I haven't had too much of a problem. Though I did get a sharp thwack the first time I encountered one. It managed to chomp my pistoleers who were harassing his units on the flank. So I gave the dragon its due and blasted it to pieces with a hellblaster.

juxtapochewy
04-03-2008, 06:53
I played against one with my chaos dwarves. My opponent was pretty new to fantasy, but a veteran 40K player so he pretty much knew what he was doing. The dragon flew around and killed off my earthshakers, took 2 wounds from hobgoblin bolt thrower fire and ended up in combat with a blunderbuss unit. they could not damage him very well, but ended up holding until my CD warrior unit with my lord could charge him from the side. I managed to do enough wounds and had enough combat res to break him and he ran off my board edge. Being roughly a billion points, it pretty much gave me the game.

They are pretty tough, but i think if you end up taking them down thats a lot of victory points and it pretty much guarantees you a victory. Next time i'm going to try the Black Gem of Gnar on a cheap character and see how that works. With 3 ranks, standard, and ounumber that will mean i would win combat by 5 which should be enough to break the sucker. Just have to see if i can get him to run off the board again cause i dont think my stumpy legged chaos dwarves will be able to run him down. Oh, and somehow make sure he charges that unit. That will be the tough part. Hope he doesn't read warseer. :)

In last edition my answer to the dragon would be the same as my answer for everything else. Sneaky Gits and more Sneaky Gits. Too bad they don't work anymore.

FurryMiguell
04-03-2008, 06:58
the star dragon is way to expencive. no, it is not easy to kill... I can take almost anything, but when it dies, it's a lot of points gone for an HE army! and when the dragon gets close, my fanatics usually does it great harm, and so does my bolt throwers:p

Cheers:D

Dtae787
04-03-2008, 08:47
So you charge a rediculas pointsink with an even more rediculas pointsink

I disagree on that comment. You have to use the models correctly to PREVENT them from becoming a point sink.

A monster like that used in tandem with your army will really cramp someones style.

Yes cannons destroy it, yes bad moves can kill it.

Victory points denial, a tactic in which you deny the other player the points by not allowing him to kill your precious 500 some point character creature.

Try that sometime, it works. You only need 2 or 3 turns to work your magic, hide and let him sweat about that dragon all day and make bad moves to try and reach it or prepare for it.