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View Full Version : Marine Chapters: How are they made?



TWB
06-10-2005, 16:34
I guess this subject has been covered at some point so tell me, from the point that somebody (who, I'll assume the High Lords of Terra do) decides that there should be a new founding how does this order come through to 1000 marines in fresh new wargear ready to go?

I've always assumed veterans from other chapters are either co-opted into the chapter to create a commander and staff of officers with some battle experience, on either a temporary basis or permanantly.

Anvils Hammer
06-10-2005, 18:18
many new chapters are "sucessor" chapters of older ones, presumable this provides a good source for quality geneseed, as well as a pool of recuits in the parents chapter to take command roles in the new chapter as you metention.

in fact, is it even possible to create a chapter thats not a sucessor of the original 20?

TheSonOfAbbadon
06-10-2005, 19:18
The High Lords of Terra do decide when to make a new Space Marine Chapter, although they usually create a large amount of them at once. When a new SM chapter is founded it is called [dun-dunun-NUH] a founding. A commander would probably be chosen to be the Chapter Master, some more commanders would be chosen as captains, and everyone else would be picked aswell. Then they would set up on a world, have lots of fortresses, space docks etc. etc. built for them, then try to do some recruiting as they start off with relatively few marines and chapter serfs.

It is possible to create a successor chapter of a successor chapter. But, say, a Ultramarines successor chapter has a successor chapter, then that chapter [the successor of the successor] will technically be an Ultramarines successor, as they still use the Ultramarines geneseed.

Of course the AdMech would have to supply weapons, armour, TechMarines, servitors, tanks etc. And the Inquisition would keep an eye on them for a while to make sure they get off to the right start.

What else would you like to know?

Inquisitor Engel
06-10-2005, 22:14
Once the Emperor's Tarot, or the High Lords (who are, for better or worse, the "will" of the Emperor) designates that it's time for a new Marine founding, there are lots of things that occur, none of which we're certain on.

My personal theories, based upon what we know of some foundings from the IA series, as well as what we know from the second founding (though this was obviously on a much larger scale), are as follows:


The Adeptus Mechanicus goes through its gene banks and procures which Chapter's gene-seed is at the prime levels for implantation, and then designates it for use of a new Chapter. For sake of argument, let's say it's the Ultramarines.
The Chapter Master chooses some Scouts that would soon become fully fledged battle brothers to form the first Marines of the new Chapter.
It's possible that a few Marines are also chosen for this honour, a Veteran Sergeant might become the new Chapter Master, though would not recieve such a rank for a long time.
Other Marines that might move on from the parent Chapter (presuming it's at full strength) would be Chaplains, Librarians and Techmarines, for obvious reasons.
The new handful of Marines sets off to find a homeworld, presumably with some more fully fledged Ultramarines to act as over-seers and guides in the process.
Once at the homeworld, the AdMech shows up, builds them a make-shift Fortress Monestary or whatnot, and they set about finding suitable youths to turn into Marines, naturally, the AdMech sends medical servitors, whilst the parent Chapter sends staff experienced with implantation to help in this.
Lots of Scouts for a while.
And so and so forth.

I would guess it takes somewhere in the region of century for an entire Chapter to go from start-up to full strength, presuming average Neophyte induction and success rates, and absolutely otherwise perfect conditions (not being called to battle other than regular training or garrison missions etc etc).

Unfortunately, there's very, very little we know as concrete fact on this, at least as far as I know.

Orthodox
07-10-2005, 02:05
Critical Hit is bad; it is not your friend. On the other hand; neither is vapid conjecture with no quoted sources.


A new chapter cannot be founded overnight. A single suitable gene-seed must be selected for each zygote. Zygotes are then grown in culture and implanted into human test-slaves. These test slaves must be biologically compatible and free from mutation. Test-slaves spend their entire lives bound in static experimental capsules. Although conscious they are completely immobile, serving as little more than mediums within which the various zygotes can develop. From the original slave come two progenoids, which are implanted within two more slaves, from which come four progenoids and so on. It takes about 55 years of constant reproduction to produce 1000 healthy sets of organs. These must be officially sanctioned by the Master of the Adeptus Mechanicus and then by the Emperor himself. Only the Emperor can give permission for the creation of a new chapter.

FOMG. As mentioned, "the Emperor" is synonymous with the Senatorum Imperialis. The consensus, especially in such vaunted academic strongholds as the B&C (no, really) is that the parent chapter has nothing to do with the actual administration of subsequent foundings. A preexisting chapter will send a cadre of officers and specialists to set up the workings and institutions of the new chapter, but the actual neophytes are created by the Mechanicus, from Mechanicus gene stock. Not only does this prevent the bloodlines from developing too far beyond the original spec, but it accounts for some lack of continuity in various chapters' linneages.

starlight
07-10-2005, 02:35
That WD quote has been reproduced in a recent (last year, I think) WD or IA article.

Orthodox
07-10-2005, 07:37
I have a new sig.


In this context it is sardonic and meant to ask if the publication date
is relevant to some kind of warhammer specific MLA documentation of which
I am ignorant because I didn't go to warseer college. Please expand on
your understanding of; you know; stuff.

ankellagung
07-10-2005, 08:03
Correct me if I'm wrong, but many chapters aren't created as succesor chapters are they? i.e. they are created using the geneseed from a number of chapters so that enough can be procured, with Ultramarines and successors being more poular for genetic stability reasons.

Or am I crazy?

Sai-Lauren
07-10-2005, 08:18
I guess this subject has been covered at some point so tell me, from the point that somebody (who, I'll assume the High Lords of Terra do) decides that there should be a new founding how does this order come through to 1000 marines in fresh new wargear ready to go?


Grab 100 boxes (or there abouts), start by gluing the legs to the bases...

Oh, sorry :D
I would assume that the chapter the geneseed is taken from is allowed to select marines, specialists and officers to head the new chapter up, most likely as a reward for meritorious service. They may get a strike cruiser or a couple of escorts, possibly some heavy equipment, and then sent off to their new homeworld to settle it (likely forceably).
They then build up over a number of years, probably being on the imperiums books as unavailable for combat outside their system, then slowly scaling up in readyness (allowing for partial and eventually full companies to be sent off on limited missions to gain combat experience) until they're at full strength, with the original marines forming the veteran cadre within the chapter. Meantime, they also build up their fleet assets, vehicle supplies, and armoury and fortify their fortress-monastary - many of the initial training missions would probably involve attacking it to pick out weak points in their defences.

athamas
07-10-2005, 09:47
Correct me if I'm wrong, but many chapters aren't created as succesor chapters are they? i.e. they are created using the geneseed from a number of chapters so that enough can be procured, with Ultramarines and successors being more poular for genetic stability reasons.

no they tend to all be from one stock, but the gene seeds are mass produced before hand so they have a good number to start with...

and by mass produced i mean 1 geenseed is implanted into a subject, then 2 are taken out at a later date.. this is repeatred untill enough have been made!

cailus
07-10-2005, 10:59
Could the officers seconded for the founding be older officers who are no longer combat capable (2nd ed Angel of Death codex refers to such men) but still have a wealth of knowledge in terms of organisational and combat experience.

Heru Talon
14-02-2006, 23:21
The way i have it written for the fluff of the Founding of my Mercy Falcon chapter (later changed their name to Warp Falcons) is that

1. The Emperor tells the High Lords that there is going to be a new Founding (methinks he does that through the Tarot, since he can't actually talk).

2. The Adeptus Mechanicus choose a stable geneseed, and start duplicating it via slaves.

3. A Captain or High Ranking Veteran Sergeant (Captain Heru Talon of the Ravenguard in the case of the Mercy Falcons), is tested to see if he is good enough to led this new Chapter by
1. The Adeptus Mechanicus (for his genetic stablity),
2. The Chapter Master of the original Chapter (for his capabilities in battle and command),
3. The most high ranking Chaplain of the original Chapter (for his spiritual purity and relgious zeal),
4. The most high ranking Librarian of the original Chapter (of his Psychic purity).
Then with High Lord approval he is setup as the First Chapter Master.

Next the Captains of the new Chapter are chosen in a similar process but from either High Ranking Veteran Sergeants or Experienced Veterans from the original Chapter.

The Tenth Company Captain is eventually chosen from the new Recruits for being the best of the lot (he may even be replaced at a later date).


A selection of worlds (their populations who porbably be tested for taint or whatnot) are shown to the new Chapter Master and he is given the right to choose which his Chapter will be stationed on. If there are no suitable worlds for the Chapter Master to choose from at the time, his Chapter is given a Interstellar Fortress Monastery to operate from.


After selecting a world, the Chapter is given time to find one hundred recruits to form the first tenth Company. At this point in time the Chapter Master then chooses the Chapter colours and name, then submits it to the High Lords for approval.

The Chapter then goes on to temper it's tenth Company until eventually the recruits are allowed to be fully fledged Space Marines. During this time new recruits are gathered each time to replace the ones that were either killed or elevated. This continues until all the Battle Companies are filled. At this point the reserve companies are then filled. After all the Companies 2 - 10 are filled and experienced troopers have proved themselves, the first Company is then slowly forged.

You then have a Chapter.

Freak Ona Leash
14-02-2006, 23:24
Threadomancy=the badness.

fracas
15-02-2006, 00:56
while what has already been stated may be true
there still remains the need for new marines to be trained once created, thus the 1000 cannot be created denovo. while it is possible that these 1000 could be trained by another chapter, i cannot see this happening.
thus i think it more likely that a particular chapter, with an adequately glorious record of service to the emperor and a mutation-free gene seed will be chosen. their veterans will be selected to be captains and sargeants of the new chapter; one current captain will become chapter master, as well as other specialist command figures.
the chapter geneseeds will then be implanted in say a 100 recipients and the first company of the new chapter is then formed and trained; followed by other companies.

Witch Hunter
15-02-2006, 01:59
Generally a founding's Chapters have a designated homeworld and core of responsibility(protect such and such space lane, defend the southern rim System X, halt the encroaching Tau empire, etc.). The High Lords will choose a homeworld and begin construction of the Fortress-Monastery well before any members of the chapter are ready to inhabit it(presumably while the geneseed is being developed by the Ad-Mech).

Ardathair
15-02-2006, 04:58
Old fluf from Compendium.


A new chapter cannot be founded overnight. A single suitable geneseed must be chosen for each zygote. Zygotes are then grown in culture and implanted into human test-slaves... ...From the original slave come two progenoids, which are implanted into two more slaves, from which come four progenoids and so on. It takes about 55 years of constant reproductionto produce 1000 healthy sets of organs....

So each of the 19 implants would be chosen individually from amongst all the gene-seed every chapter is required to send to Mars.

An obvious flaw is that the chapter starts with no seargents let alone officers. Got the impression that the new chapter would be allowed to mature and train sufficantly to be full Marines not all scouts when they first go into battle.

ankellagung
15-02-2006, 06:05
Ardathair, did you even read the thread? Because Orthodox posted the *exact* same text in full...........

Sai-Lauren
15-02-2006, 10:50
So each of the 19 implants would be chosen individually from amongst all the gene-seed every chapter is required to send to Mars.

No, the progenoids contain what are basically germ cells for each of the implants, including the next set of progenoids - consiering they're probably the size of a large grape - maybe a kiwi fruit at most (otherwise they'd interfere with the remainder of the marines anatomy whilst they're implanted), they can't contain much else.

These germ cells are what are implanted, although they may be at least partly matured/vat grown to make viable functioning organs before implantation.

Ardathair
17-02-2006, 02:56
ankellagung I missed that one but obviously most respondents did to.


Sai-Lauren said:
No, the progenoids contain what are basically germ cells for each of the implants, including the next set of progenoids - consiering they're probably the size of a large grape - maybe a kiwi fruit at most (otherwise they'd interfere with the remainder of the marines anatomy whilst they're implanted), they can't contain much else.

Sorry I'm no gene therapist I didn't realize that 19 strands of DNA would not fit inside a grape let alone a kiwi.

The progenoid glands are not supposed to contain the new organs, just the genetic imprint of them.

Sai-Lauren
17-02-2006, 12:06
Sorry I'm no gene therapist I didn't realize that 19 strands of DNA would not fit inside a grape let alone a kiwi.

The progenoid glands are not supposed to contain the new organs, just the genetic imprint of them.
They're not strands of DNA, they're small cell clusters that can be extracted from the progenoid and grown into the implantable organs. There's a betchers gland cell cluster, a sus-an membrane cell cluster, a secondary heart cell cluster and so on. The organs from each progenoid are implanted into one recipient recruit - I presume that the earlier implanted organs grow to an implantable stage quicker than the later ones, thereby becoming available at different times, rather than the apothecaries cracking open the progenoid, pulling out some of the cells and sticking the rest in the fridge for three years time.

DNA strands are just molecules (admittedly very large in terms of molecular sizes), each of our own cells has 46 of them (aka chromosomes, and I would imagine implant DNA strands are smaller than our chromosomes). If it was just DNA strands, potentially, you could build marines simply through a version of gene therapy, and you wouldn't have to mess around implanting organs, you could just induce the recipients body to grow it for you - essentially giving you a whole new sub-species of humanity - Home Sapiens Astartes - although this would likely mean you would also need females with the same genetic makeup in order to continue their existance.

Rlyehable
17-02-2006, 12:52
At one point, the fluff indicated that the Mentors chapter was tasked with having the role of guiding new chapters.

Purge The Weak
17-02-2006, 14:30
Well you see.... When the mammy emporor and the daddy emporor fell in love, they ...........

Lol Interesting read !!

Brother Othorio
17-02-2006, 14:31
At one point, the fluff indicated that the Mentors chapter was tasked with having the role of guiding new chapters.

actually thats not true, they were tasked with developing and diseminating new technology/equipment amongst existing chapters (sort of like the Deathwatch*), their involvment with newly formed chapters was cooked up by fans

* the deal is chapters loan marines temporarily to the Deathwatch, the Deathwatch teaches them new xenos-fighting techniques, and when the marines tenure is up he returns to his chapter and teaches his brethren those techniques

skyfyre
19-02-2006, 04:05
The way Space Marine chapters are made is as follows.

1. Pick a color or combination of colors.

2. You get X number of super powers associated with that color unless you picked blue. Blue Marines have ZERO super powers.

3. Pick a name for your chapter, something suitably inspiring like "The Legion of Assault Cannons" or "Lords of Infiltrating Las/Plas" or "Drop Pod Angels."

4. Pick a thing. This is your chapters icon. Because there are so many chapters already and most cool things are taken, you have to take something like a cigarette lighter, a pink unicorn, a wicker frog, or a burgundy couch.

5. Repeat, ad nauseum.