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Geetarman
18-03-2005, 12:51
Well hows about it? Get the council back together and get plotting again. Maybe keeping it more tactics orientated this time?

Gman

skavenguy13
18-03-2005, 13:16
yup, definately.
Also, the Council should all go to the same place between this Portent and version2.

edit: does this need some kind of vote? I'm was in seat 5, remember?

Kwitchit
18-03-2005, 15:12
Whatever this council of 13 is, here's another Skaven player wishing to join it.

Maelstrom
18-03-2005, 18:46
You guys must be gutted, how many posts did you have in the old council thread?

alterion
18-03-2005, 21:22
i am dangermouse under my new name.. can i steal a seat in the relocation or am i stuck as a champion again

skavenguy13
18-03-2005, 22:01
well, you could always become my champion until a seat is officially vacant as I never had a champ.
I guess about 2/3 members won't be back soon, maybe some might not even come back :eek: .

Maelstrom: IIRC, it was around 5500 posts.

And you guys should prepare your tactics advice as we were planning to do a huge tactica until Portent went *CRASH*

Warlord Gnashgrod
19-03-2005, 23:14
Greetings-greetings, all.

It's good to see the Council up and running again. I was checking things out at the ezboards, but no-one went there(did everyone else forget about it?).

Anyway, I hope this all gets going good again. I held seat 12 in the Glorious Council of Thirteen, and if we're starting it over again, I wish to once again hold this seat.

Glory to the Horned Rat!

Ethereal Alpaca
19-03-2005, 23:18
Yeah I'm back, feelin' goooood. Great to see you again, G-man, gnashgrod, DM and skavenguy, hopefully we will be seeing some of the others soon too.

If nobody minds, I think I'll be having my seat back too! *Nabs seat 8*

About the tactics thing, I say we should wait until a few more people get back before we start on it.


You guys must be gutted, how many posts did you have in the old council thread?

Literally thousands...

Rabid Bunny 666
19-03-2005, 23:51
wormtongue was the head, but i don't know wether he has re registered yet, just thought i'd say

Inquisitor DreaxIV
20-03-2005, 09:19
5500 posts?! :eek:

Thats alot for one thread... I'd like to put forward my name for a taker of a council spot if theres one available :)

I love tactic threads and im planning to have a new skaven army once the lustria book comes out :p

Bob the destroyer
20-03-2005, 11:01
I don;t know if I want to be on the councle but I would love to talk tactics.

skavenguy13
20-03-2005, 13:29
I repeat my offer: you can be my champion and if we confirm a seat is open, then take it.

when we left, the Council was like this:

The Great Horned One : Geetarman (here)
The Inquisirat: The Nurglitch (missing)
seat 13 (the Verminlord) Shadow Hunter (missing)

seat1: Wormtail (missing?)... with Finkle (missing)
seat12: Gnashrod (here)

seat2: WarpPaw (missing)
seat11: Judge Black (missing)... with DangerMouse (here)

seat3: Dark Hyve Tyrant (missing)... with spikedog (missing)
seat10: Taishar (missing)

seat4: Efgy (mising)
seat9: Dwarf Killer (missing)

seat5: Skavenguy13 (here :D )
seat8: EthrealAlpaca (here)

seat6:Morskittar (missing?)
seat7:Termik (missing?)

Here's how it worked to join the Council: first say you want to be a champion.
Then, after some days, you will be asked 3 questions about Skaven.
You have 3 days to answer.
If you're correct, you can choose your Master.
After some time, if a seat is vacant, you will probably be able to take it.

Gemini Dragon
20-03-2005, 15:32
Here's how it worked to join the Council: first say you want to be a champion.
Then, after some days, you will be asked 3 questions about Skaven.
You have 3 days to answer.
If you're correct, you can choose your Master.
After some time, if a seat is vacant, you will probably be able to take it.

what kind of question ???
sorry if it sound disrespectful, but...
with the 13 you can not be too distrustful

skavenguy13
20-03-2005, 16:25
FYI my three questions were:
how many grey seers are there?
Who is the grey lord of Clan Moulder?
How many council members died in the battle with Nagash?

The questions are different for each member, you need at least 2/3 (but they're not hard, I got 3/3 with most of the questions that other people had)

TheLeaderOfYou
21-03-2005, 00:59
Hey,

If a seat becomes open i would LOVE to join! I am a closet Skaven player as my local Games Workshop store has several players who refuse to play them.

So, please let me know if I can join!

______________________________
Throt the Unclean(jk, someone will kill me for that... where are those rat ogres when ya need em?)

TheLeaderOfYou
21-03-2005, 01:03
Hey,sorry did not read post on how to join. I want to be a champion, but I doubt I will make it, so shoot!

Sorry, just doubtful I will pass :D

skavenguy13
21-03-2005, 01:11
Hey,sorry did not read post on how to join. I want to be a champion, but I doubt I will make it, so shoot!

There's an *edit post* button, you know?
Anyway, does that mean you apply to be a champ or not?

s'nkeep
21-03-2005, 02:22
revexile here under my true skaven name, its good to see you all are back, i probally will just watch as im into quite a few things for my plate now...

we shall inherit!

TheLeaderOfYou
21-03-2005, 05:51
There's an *edit post* button, you know?
Anyway, does that mean you apply to be a champ or not?
__________________

Oh... hehe... did not realize and yes, I want to be a champ!

Geetarman
21-03-2005, 09:30
Greetings greetings one and all! Ahh its good to be back in the councils chamber after such a long time absent (y'know, it felt like my arm had been cut off not being here, sad sad sad :D )

I still have a copy of the rules on how to join the council somewhere on my harddrive and will attempt to locate them and post them here.

Basically becoming a member is in 3 steps

1) apply, post your wish to join
2) answer 3 questions given by the councils lords
3) become a champ.

After 30 days of beinga champ you can then take a seat if an are free, or challenge a lord if you feel lucky, punk. Or you can stay a champ if you like, many people did until lords left as it was the easiest way. CHallenges are fought like AoD's with challenger and defender posting me their chars (points limits etc are in the download I will find).

It might be easier for the time being that anyone wishing to join becomes a "champion applicant". This means you can stick a note in your sig saying your official part of the council, but until portent finds its new home, or until more lords return we will hold off questions etc.

If thats ok with all applicants we will go that route! :)

THE HORNED ONE BLESSES HIS DARK KIN.

Gman

Inquisitor DreaxIV
21-03-2005, 11:20
Hmm doesnt sound too difficult ;)
Toss me 3 questions and we shall see how i go!

skavenguy13
21-03-2005, 12:54
So:
TheLeaderOfYou and Inquisitor DreaxIV both need questions
*PMs his suggestions to The Horned One*
anyway, as I have the rules saved too, I'll attach them (if this isn't the rules, tell me).

BTW, If there's some empty seats, I won't mind upgrading my position :D

Artemis_Quinn
22-03-2005, 23:00
If a position remains available please send me the questions so I can be at least a champion on the council of the 13. This sounds too interesting to resisit, like a shiny piece of warpstone.

^Changer^
24-03-2005, 22:51
Yay the council is back :) Will we have the same seats etc?

skavenguy13
25-03-2005, 00:52
I suggest that we first keep the places we have. In a couple days, declare that the empty placed will be filled as follow:
The better ranked (before) chooses his new rank first.
and so on.
After that, all new members will do the same thing, but with the order from the 3 questions we gave them (best results, then fastest).

My suggestion, maybe it won't be like that. It should be up to Geetarman or a vote (hey, my first vote!).

BTW, I sent my suggestions for the questions to Geetarman, he should ask some soon.

Termik
28-03-2005, 22:39
Greetings,

My fellow furry comrades... I was very frightened for this Portent convulsion... and now quite relief for this temporary Forum.

Hope everyone is OK, but the first time I entered Portent and readed the long message... I feel very sad, now with the news about Portent 2 I will take even more part than before inside the Council. And remember, Seat 7 has his proper owner again ;D

Well, I've just only have to get another 450 posts, but this time I will do it i less time, you know... for being around here since 2001 they are not a lot. Hope the moderators could fix for the people who had a lot of them.

Also, I'm glad to see so many old "faces" around here. It's just like feeling at home again.

I will keep an eye here nearly every day.

May the Horned One be with all of you

ReDavide
29-03-2005, 02:07
I have a tactics question of sorts for the venerable Council members and their pathetic thralls:

I played my first game ever with my Skaven (and of WHFB for that matter) the other day. Now, when I had been fantasizing about my army, I had imagined each block of clanrats having a character (such as a warlock engineer) to lead it.

During the game however, it seemed like there wasn't much point in locking my precious engineer in a rat unit. The clanrats did fine on their own in combat, and the engineer seemed better used hanging back separately to shoot lightning bolts.

Is this a workable option, or was it only successful because of the game size (teeny 500 pointer) or my opponent (fellow newbie Ork player)?

Urban Cowboy
29-03-2005, 20:46
I'd like to attempt to join as well

skavenguy13
29-03-2005, 21:05
During the game however, it seemed like there wasn't much point in locking my precious engineer in a rat unit. The clanrats did fine on their own in combat, and the engineer seemed better used hanging back separately to shoot lightning bolts.

I see only 3 reasons to put characters in unit:
1: they make the unit more powerful (combat characters)
2: LD boost
3: it can't be shot/targetted by magic.

Number 3 is not really necessary and wizards such as the engineer don't have the first 2 points. So, I never put my engineers in clanrat units anymore except if my opponent has forked lighting or uranon thunderbolt. However, if you have slaves and the general is far away, it could be a good idea. Just remember to make him leave the unit when you get close to the enemy so he won't get stuck in CC.

As for fighting characters, I always put them in clanrat units. I don't like stormvermin anymore as I think they cost too much compared to clanrats and a big clanrat unit with spears and a chieftain is stronger than it looks.

There are 2 other reasons why I don't put characters in units:
sometimes, I feel the eshin characters would be better on their own (depends on situation).
And a crazy situation: if you play agaist undead, try skitterleaping a plague priest 1" away of the general or the casket. He is frenzy so won't fear the character and he is faster so he will be almost sure of charging it. And he'll surely win in CC :p

Ethereal Alpaca
01-04-2005, 16:21
I have a tactics question of sorts for the venerable Council members and their pathetic thralls:

I played my first game ever with my Skaven (and of WHFB for that matter) the other day. Now, when I had been fantasizing about my army, I had imagined each block of clanrats having a character (such as a warlock engineer) to lead it.

During the game however, it seemed like there wasn't much point in locking my precious engineer in a rat unit. The clanrats did fine on their own in combat, and the engineer seemed better used hanging back separately to shoot lightning bolts.

Is this a workable option, or was it only successful because of the game size (teeny 500 pointer) or my opponent (fellow newbie Ork player)?

Hmmm. I used to figure the same, but my engineer always ended up getting shot, so now I normally put him in a unit. On his own all it takes is for a single low level magic missile to take him out, and if you take the tenebrous cloak you can't have storm daemon OR a dispel scroll.

Now, on another topic. With the new plastic rat ogres coming out, let's talk about how to use these overpriced and underpowered troops with some measure of success, and maybe hear a few of your success stories.

skavenguy13
01-04-2005, 21:17
In my 1000 points games, 2 on the flank were real useful:
game one: made a unit of winged lancers flee and went off the board when charged by other winged lancers (and keeping them out of battle for 2-3 turns).
game two: were charged by silver helms and died, but the silver helms were too far and couldn't do a thing for the rest of the battle.
game three: Threatened a unit of silver helms from a flank charge, with clanrats on the other side. Finally, the helms fled from the clanrats and both my units chased him until they died.

Great-great job indeed for a 100 points unit.

For the other flank, I like either another unit of two (US8+fear for flank charges), one or two giant rats packs or (coming) a unit of ironguts with slaves just beside. I think I'll have 5 ironguts+musician+banner that reflects spells to units nearby.

shadow hunter
04-04-2005, 17:36
AAAARRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHH,

What's happened????

I thought Portent was down for a long time. My last computer finally died a month ago, and I've only just got a replacement (from Dell).

I'm glad no-one is pinching each others names. I did consider having a more Skaveny name, but decided I should stick with what other know me by.

I Have been very busy lately, as me and Katie are almost ready to get our house on the market and move down to Wiltshire (we have 2 estate agent coming round tomorrow to value it) (Gman- you still up for a game when I'm down south too?) Once we have moved, I have arealdy stipulated that I have a games/computer room, and a garage for my motorbike. These were my conditions for me leaving everything behind. Not a bad trade off.

I'll post again tomorrow. Good to see you all.

skavenguy13
04-04-2005, 20:58
I'll post again tomorrow. Good to see you all.

I just hope it's the same for Geetarman. About 5 people asked to join the Council, the tactica thing is going nowhere and the thread is getting really disorganized.

shadow hunter
04-04-2005, 21:14
Hmmm. I used to figure the same, but my engineer always ended up getting shot, so now I normally put him in a unit. On his own all it takes is for a single low level magic missile to take him out, and if you take the tenebrous cloak you can't have storm daemon OR a dispel scroll.

Now, on another topic. With the new plastic rat ogres coming out, let's talk about how to use these overpriced and underpowered troops with some measure of success, and maybe hear a few of your success stories.

I also usually keep my warlock in a unit, but I make sure he still has a good LoS to use his warp lightning. Sometimes I may leave the unit, especially if it looks like the unit may get stuck in HtH. He's much better out casting spells. He's not a terrible fighter though. 1 attack at S4 (blades) and one from a warplock pistol (s5).


As for the rat ogres- I haven't heard much about the new stuff. I never realised they were to be plastic. I really like my rat ogres, even though they are overpriced. And I struggle to write a list not including at least 1. To be honest, I can't think of many moments of outstanding achievements for the lumbering beasts either. However, they do take a lot of fire power off the rest of your army, and at least make your opponent worry about them. These two things can be useful, even if their actual battlefield results are poor.


I cant wait for the plague monks (I'm not a plague fan generally) and I'm eager to see the pics of the plague lord with censor.

Festering Chantor
04-04-2005, 21:14
If any of you get some spare time sometime I would like to apply as Champion.

therat
04-04-2005, 23:14
Lords of Decay beware... the chosen of the Horned One approaches. I shall humor your application process, for now at least. Ask your questions and they shall be answered.

Ethereal Alpaca
05-04-2005, 07:36
Lords of Decay beware... the chosen of the Horned One approaches. I shall humor your application process, for now at least. Ask your questions and they shall be answered.

Foolish young rat-rat...to show such arrogance towards the Council. Very well, WE shall humor YOU. Your application is accepted, "chosen of the horned one" (snigger).

Geetarman
05-04-2005, 07:53
greetings council, it is goodto be back in our hallowed halls, but unfortunately I shall not be staying for the time being. At present time is not favourably for me and I am spending most of my time at the hospital at present to visit a sick family member. Luckily they are now getting better (although for a while we weren't sure if they were coming home at all), but I shall probably be out of action for another week or so.

If in the meantime people wish to get the existing members back up, post a list of seats (already done I think) and if anyone has them put the rules back up for our challenges that'd be very handy! Hopefuly this weekend I shall be back online and we can begin plotting the downfall of mankind, and using portents bandwidth a little more effectively.

PS if anyone wants to put any pics up for people to see send them to my e-mail () and I will put them on some spare webspace I have and stick a link on here (just another way to save portents bandwidth).

Gman

Geetarman
05-04-2005, 07:55
shadow - as soon as your southbound you shout me! :)

Until the weekend (and I promise we'll get things sorted, of course if someone wants to kick things off that can only help them in the promotional aspect in the future if you get my drift ;) )

Gman

shadow hunter
05-04-2005, 17:15
Okay, I have been playing catch up on news I have missed recently. Just read the many threads out there.

It now looks like my warlord, who has always had a bitter hatred for clan pestilens, may be assassinated.


Why?


'Cause I want me some of those new pestilens models! :D I have resisted pestilens pretty well until now (the crap models helped) but I have now succumbed. Where's my credit card, I need to advance order.


Is anyone else gonna invest in this decaying horde? What are your plans?

One thing is for sure, my storm vermin are also gonna go the way of my warlord. Either that or harvesting the black corn out in the marshes.

Warlord Gnashgrod
05-04-2005, 19:24
Greetings-greetings, all.

It's good to see Portent up and running again. For a little while there I couldn't get on this currently temp forum, and I thought Portent was down for good. But I'm glad to see it's running again.

On the subject of Warlocks in units, I usually keep mine outside. It makes it easier to move them where I need them. I do my best to keep them back so they can't be shot, charged etc, but admittedly it doesn't always work. But I still find it works better for me.

I must say the new Plastic plague monk models look really good. I also like the look of the new Censer Bearers and the Rat Ogres. Now if only the rules would change a bit to make them (CBs and ROs) better choices to field. Ah well. I still see some good possibilities for the models.

On April 24th I'll be involved in a Fantasy Tourney. 2000pts. I'm looking forward to it and will keep you updated on it as well.

Ethereal Alpaca
05-04-2005, 21:02
Well remember that in the Pestilens list rat ogres are frenzied and packmasterless.

shadow hunter
05-04-2005, 21:20
Greetings-greetings, all.

Now if only the rules would change a bit to make them (CBs and ROs) better choices to field. Ah well. I still see some good possibilities for the models.

On April 24th I'll be involved in a Fantasy Tourney. 2000pts. I'm looking forward to it and will keep you updated on it as well.

As ethereal said, in the Lustria book they have some new rules. I hear the censor bearers don't have to stay near their unit either.


Good luck with the tourny. any list created yet? What you going for theme wise?

Warppaw
05-04-2005, 21:30
Ahhh well, since everyone else has stopped in and said hi, I suppose it's about time I showed my mangy head too. It's good to be back say thankya.


It now looks like my warlord, who has always had a bitter hatred for clan pestilens, may be assassinated.

*Chough*Sell-out!*Chough*
:D
To tell ya the truth, I'll be advance ordering the book and a battalion come Monday if it please ya.

But seeing how they're making the RO's plastic, I sure hope that they change the rules all over, and not just for the campaign.

Festering Chantor
05-04-2005, 21:52
No packmasters and frenzy that's it... but you get to use spawns, that's fun...

Geetarman
06-04-2005, 08:50
I like the magic system for the new plague army, basically you get 3 levels of magic user, each level has an extra spell from pestilence breath, death frenzy and plague (although I am not sure on the order).

You also get the rat ogres as mentioned above, and you get units of 'pustules' (I think its called) which are basically slaves, but with the added rule that D6 die per round! :D

I have also heard that yes the cencer bearers don't have to stay with the units and that the new Nurglitch model absolutely rocks! I think I too shall be buying a pestilens contingent for my burgeoning ranks :D

I think the new plastics are really nice, there is one arm that has a walking cane rather rath a weapon and a little rat is sticking its snout out the sleeve kewl :D

Gman

Ethereal Alpaca
06-04-2005, 16:35
the new Nurglitch model absolutely rocks!


Nah..IMO it looks crap. The arms are too small for his body by far, the head is bad, and the rat just looks constipated. If I want to use nurglitch, I think I'll probably just convert my own. Maybe it's just cause I haven't had a good look at it though...


and you get units of 'pustules' (I think its called) which are basically slaves, but with the added rule that D6 die per round!

They're called Pus Bags. I think they have some additional bonus, like T4 or something.

skavenguy13
06-04-2005, 21:12
they have a "cloud of flies" rule, from what I heard. Also, I heard a unit will be getting flails as an option. I think it's the plague monks, but not sure about it.

Festering Chantor
06-04-2005, 21:48
Pusbags: 3 pts pr. model. Can't take shields or spears. Flails +2 pts
Special rules: Expendable, Cloud of Flies and Dying (the D6 death thing...)

Geetarman
07-04-2005, 13:30
Pusbags: 3 pts pr. model. Can't take shields or spears. Flails +2 pts
Special rules: Expendable, Cloud of Flies and Dying (the D6 death thing...)

Cool, although IMO not worth giving them them flails when, during a game, your gonna lose 21 of them (3.5 a turn) to the dying rule...

Ack, better go back to work :(

Gman

Stouty
07-04-2005, 16:01
Does a unit of pussbags dying of natural causes cause panic tests, better ruddy not.

Festering Chantor
07-04-2005, 16:05
Expendable rule means they never cause panic tests on any other units in the army...
They're worthless you know...

Warlord Gnashgrod
09-04-2005, 17:50
Greetings-greetings, all.

Some of those new rules for the Pestilens list sounds pretty good. Although the Pusbags don't sound too good to me. Does anyone know what the Cauldron of 1000 poxes will do?

Anyway. here's my planned list for the tourney, 2000pts

Warlord: Heavy armor, enchanted shield, Desolate blade, Foul pendant

BSB: Storm banner

2x Warlock Enginneer: all upgrades except pistol, 2 Dispell scrolls each.

3x 35 Clanrats: all with hand weap shield, light armor. 2 with full command, 1 with musician and champ. 1 ratling gun and 1 Warpfire thrower.

3 units of skavenslaves: all have musicians, 1 has 22 models, the other 2 20 models.

2 units of globadiers. one 5 models, the other 4.

unit of 4 rat swarms.

2 units of Gutter runners. 1 is 5 models, poisoned hand weapons, poisoned throwing stars, and are scouts. The other is 4 models, tunnellers, with poisoned hand weapons.

unit of 6 Jezzails.

Well, that's it. what do you think? I am considering trading the Desolate Blade and 1 clanrat for the Weeping Blade. What do you think would be better? I like the S6 of the desolate blade, but the D3 wounds from the weeping blade does interest me as well. Let me know which you guys would think is the better choice.

May The Horned Rat be with you.

Festering Chantor
09-04-2005, 18:01
The Cauldron is a screaming bell with a few changes. It must be fielded with a unit of Plague Monks, who never looses their frenzy if they are beaten in combat. It's used in the magic phase. Cast Plague like bound spell. +A few other tweaks...

ReDavide
09-04-2005, 19:57
I am once again in need of the Council's wise advice.

I bought myself a box of night runners yesterday with the intent of making myself a 7-strong Tunneling team.

I looked over my remaining bitz, and realized I had enough to make a 13-strong unit of... something. I looked up the Night Runners entry, and realized they were dirt cheap, fast, and resilient to shooting - sounds like something that would be good for making flank charges!

So now I'm imagining adding a 65-point unit of 13 night runners to my small Skaven army. I'm hoping it will be fast enough to run up the side of the board and make flank charges on the enemy while my clanrats engage them from the front.

I'm a little worried by the runners' weakness in combat though - will I often find their charge making the situation worse by allowing the enemy to get more attacks in?

I've only played 2 games of Fantasy so far, so I don't know much of what nasties are out there in the warhammer world.

So what's the verdict: Is such a unit worth taking? If so, how should I equip it? I'm tempted by the cheapness of unupgraded ones, though I could see potential in giving them a 2nd handweapon.

(for reference, the rest of my army currently consists of 2x25clanrats, a warlock, a ratling gun, & some jezzails - the addition of nightrunners would have the added bonus of making it a little less SAD).

skavenguy13
09-04-2005, 23:16
Gnashrod: see the other "skaven army" thread to see what to do. The list is basicly the same, with smaller and more units. I'd forget the globadiers and the jezzails because of the banner though. Or maybe just take 6 globos. And yes, the weeping blade is the better choice IMO because it's easier to take out enemy heroes and monsters like minotaurs and ogres.

Redavide: yes, a small number of NR is worth it. I always take at least 1 unit of gutters and 1 of nights. Don't take big units though as they lose their "skirmish advantages". They're bigger and easier to kill. I like NR units of about 7 with 2 weapons and scout units of about 6 with poison. It's just enough to take down warmachines, wizards or enemy skirmishers. I suggest taking a unit of 5 NR with 2 weapons and a unit of 8 with nothing, with a unit of 7 scouts with poison.

shadow hunter
11-04-2005, 17:44
Greetings all.

I am saving my pityful warptokens ready for the release of all these new goodies.

Why am i such a sucker for new stuff??????

Gnashrod- I would go with the weaping blade too. There's far too many big nasties these days ;)

Do you find 6 Jezzails worth taking? They never do much for me, but I am crap at rolling. I'd prefer to spend the 120pts on something else like....... Rat ogres.

I dont care if you all think they suck, I like 'em.


ReDavide- night runners can be very useful. I have used their slings to good effect. Or sometimes used throwing stars, or used them as flankers. They were more vulnerable to shooting than I thought though.

therat
11-04-2005, 19:59
I dont care if you all think they suck, I like 'em.

Last year I presented a fairly well constructed army to play against an old rival (a Bretonnian player) and I faired far better than any other year (long story, but we play once or twice a year). Anyway, afterwards he says to me "you know, there's nothing in your army that really jumps out at me and makes me think woah, I need to stop that thing, but I'm not all too sure how." With this in mind I set to work trying to find something big, and my answer was rat ogres. Against any army they will do well. They're fast, strong, tough and can hold up in combat head on, or hit on a flank with devastating effect. I think many players shy away from them because they have that 50pts slapped onto them, quite a lot for a skaven model. Nevertheless, they can be squeezed into a large horde without much sacrifice and can be a huge help in securing victory, in more ways than one. So, next time you're looking to change up your list, throw some ogres in!

Shadow hunter also said something about a lot of "big nasties," if you get to feeling that way just remember all the big nasties in 5th edition (especially our own beloved big nasty daemon)

Warlord Gnashgrod
11-04-2005, 20:04
Greetings-greetings, all.

Well, I have decided to take the weeping blade. I think it's the better choice considering what's all out there in other armies.

Shadow Hunter: I find the jezzails useful against Cavalry. I think they're the best thing to break through their armor. Admittedly there bs isn't the best, but the odds are that I'll get 1-2 hits a turn with 6 of them. I also use the swarms to tie them up for a few turns if possible. Anyway, it seems to work fairly well for me.

Egfy
12-04-2005, 03:27
The once glorious chamber doors creak open. The few skaven inside raise their heads towards the door, blinking at the bright light streaming in. A lone hunched figure, draped in what was once a magnificent crimson robe, slowly limps in.

The doors close behind with a bang, causing pieces of maisonry to fall onto the center table. The lone figure looks round at the few sitting, and the many empty seats, with an indignant snort he starts limping towards one of the vacant seats, the sound of his new mechanical leg echoing against the stone floor.

Reaching seat four, he places a paw on the familiar seat, dusts it off, and with a sigh, sits himself down. The others present look round at each other, knowing that one of their own has retured from the devastation that has struck the world.

In case you haven't guessed yet, i'm back :D

It may take me a while to catch up on things (WoW is taking up too much of my time), but i'll try to post here as often as I can.

therisnosaurus
12-04-2005, 11:26
sounds fun, and I'm in, question me with questions three.

I've been looking at the bubonic court list and it's pretty fun, the only main problem with it is you HAVE to take nurglitch. at over 550 points, that's a pretty hefty investment to be playing around with and one I don't think is entirely justified in 2000 points. admittedly he rocks- causes terror, dieases ****, makes your army really angry, spanks stuff in close combat and is exeedingly hard to kill, but I'd rather just take a plague lord with warpstone, enchanted shield and weeping blade (2+ save, successes bounce wounds and 5 strength 5 attacks (6 if not using bubonic court) doing d3 wounds)

anyhow, been fiddling around and come up with a really drafty court of nurglitch

2000 points

nurglitch: 575
chantor, dispel scroll: 85
priest, censer, liber bubonicus: 126

30 plague monks with extra hand weaps, full command, warbanner 290
30 plague monks with extra hand weaps, full command 265

25 pusbags (slaves), muso 79
25 pusbags (slaves), muso 79

12 frothing giant rats (frenzy and no packmaster) 60
12 frothing giant rats (frenzy and no packmaster) 60

6 censer bearers 102
6 censer bearers 102

2 mad ratogres (frenzy and no packmaster) 100

1 ratspawn (chaos spawn style thingy, but stubborn not unbreakable)

one of nurglitch's rules means no one looses frenzy while he is a live (that's that 35 point khorne banner for everyone in the army :) )

I plan on making my own plaguelord minidiaorama to represent burglitch, namely a plaguelord conversion from the standard chieftan with a big sword, a plague censer on his tail instead of a banner, and a few censer bearers as a retinue- 2 or 4 depending. instead of that orrible nurglitch model. no offence to anyone in the studio, but I think one of the sculptors was having a private go at mr sawyer :P

the monks make up the center, screened by the pussbags which just stand there and die, like they should. the frenzied rats make flankers and missile unit killers, with a frontage of 6 they get 12 attacks on the charge- nothing to joke about :P

the mad ratogres flank, the spawn pins and the censer bearers generaly pwn some butt as usual


oh and a few things- cauldron is pretty much a screaming bell that throws a bound plague spell instead of normal effects, ridden by a plague pontifex (level 2 wiz, upgradeable to lev 3, knows pestibreath, plague and learns death frenzy if upgraded. btw,death frenzy is the bomb if put on nurglitch's unit- he then gets 8 strength 6 attacks with frenzy, hatred and the blade of nurglitch effects. while the other 4 models that will make up the front rank will give you another 17 basic strength 3 ones. ow. suffice to say, you don't win combat v mr nurglitch, even with your fancy pants kniggits of khorne

shadow hunter
14-04-2005, 19:39
I didn't know that about Nurglitch. Makes it a bit crappy, I dont like spending that much on one model. It makes the army real small.

Do you have the lustria book already?

CauCaSus
15-04-2005, 19:31
Hi! Some of the older members might remember me back in the days when the Council was first founded.

Anyway, I thought I might join again though I'll probably stay out of all the schemeing and stuff, I don't have time for that.

Finishing my clan Eshin army and I'm definatly getting a clan pestilense army when it arrives! Does anyone have any idea what kind of troops it will contain? Will it have "special" plague monks like in the Dwarf Slayer army? How will we use the frenzy to our advantage and stop our opponent from utilizing its negative effects? I'm thinking about using night runners (if they are available and not a rare or something) to block LOS until i want my troops to charge.

Edit:
Oooh, those pus bags sound wonderful! Like slaves, only even MORE expendable! :D
I think I'll go for a "magic heavy" pestilense army since I haven't really done that with my other skaven-armies and it doesn't have the infamous warplightning spell everybody loves to hate ;)

skavenguy13
15-04-2005, 22:02
unfortunately, I think the list really lacks of diversity. Also, I don't think magic heavy armies are going to be good.

CauCaSus
17-04-2005, 14:49
Thats ok, I would not limit myself to one clan if I wanted a diverse army. I just want a clan pestilens army :D

And by magic heavy I mean "more magic then the two levels I usually field" ;)

therisnosaurus
17-04-2005, 17:02
okay, on the frenzy in the bubonic court (which there is a lot of) there are a few things you can do:

a) pusbags. denied the usual screens, just use units of 20 busbags in 2 ranks of ten. easy, and even more likely to flee should you need them too. also great for shielding a unit of 30 plague monks who've been death frenzied and have the banner of hatred thingy- come on, who doesn't want troops with more attacks than a chosen khorne knight (25 attacks re-rolling misses in the first round of combat from that unit)

b) the I don't care method. take nurglitch, stick him in a unit of 30 monks with a warbanner and full command. that unit becomes impossible to freaking kill. ignores spells, nurglitch has hatred and close on the statline of a bloodthirster, getting a combat res of +6 without kills and an average of about +11 with them. don't blow your nose with it

c) more pusbags. these guys are invaluable as everything else in your army has frenzy and so can't flee from a charge.

skavenguy13
17-04-2005, 17:09
I know Nurglitch costs a lot, but what about putting him in a unit of like 15 monks with 2 weapons and command? The unit doesn't cost a lot, and with Nurglitch's help, they should easily win. You absolutely need a champion to accept challenges with him. Send Nurglitch to kill 3-4 models a turn to negate ranks and outnumber fast.

ReDavide
23-04-2005, 21:19
What do you guys think is the best setup for Stormvermin in a warlord army?

The models look too cool not to use, but I also want them to hurt my army the least amount possible. :p

I can't decide whether to go all-out on upgrades in the hope of making them a good shock unit (24-30 rats, shields, full command, Banner of Hatred, + attached Warlord), or whether to just keep'em cheap and spend points elsewhere (20 rats, maybe a banner & musician).

Thoughts? Experiences?

therat
23-04-2005, 22:43
My stormvermin never did anything for me, so I cut them for more plague monks. Hell, one battle they were forced into a forest and didn't manage to emerge until the last turn. Without the old strength bonus they're pretty much just clanrats that know how to use halberds. I'd rather throw a wall of 16 attacks at the enemy. I mean, think about it, no matter what you need to take whatever it is your trying to take down, out of 16 the odds are pretty good that you'll take a few down (remember, the tougher the unit is, usually the less there is). Yes, the stormvermin models are cool, but so are the new plague monks. Skaven don't do the beat down very well, but put 25 of them together slashing wildly without reserve (not to mention they can take a hit from weaker units) and you've got a nasty engine of destruction. So, I'd say drop the stormies and take plague monks. Depending on your overall strategy, if you can fit a plague priest in do it. Give him either the desolate blade or the weeping blade then sit back and watch the show. It's gonna be a blood bath.

skavenguy13
24-04-2005, 02:14
This often decides what to choose between the two:
What do I need more? another weapon team or some censer bearers?
If you think you can manage to win without any of the above, just go for clanrats with spears, and give spears and more rats to other clanrats units. Seriously, the SV for me are clanrats that are tougher to kill. The only time I've used halberds instead of shields is against white lions.

Warlord Gnashgrod
26-04-2005, 20:06
Greetings-greetings, all!

I'm back from the convention, and had a pretty good time. I got to play in both a 40K and Fantasy RTT, which was fun.

For the Fantasy RTT, I had two wins and one loss. The first game was "Gain Ground" against a Chaos Dwarf Army. He had 8 war machines in it; 2 Earthshakers, 2 Death Rockets and 4 hobgoblin Bolt Throwers. He also had 2 units of 12 blunderbusses, 1 unit of 19 warriors, 1 unit of about 10 hobgob archers, 2 lvl 2 wizards, a lord on the flying bull, and the bull taurus hero. His artillery did very little, partly thanks to my Storm Banner, and his 2 characters rushed foolishly forward, killed a unit of slaves, and were then cut down by my own shooting. The hero killed by Globadiers and the Lords mount destroyed by shooting. He then charged a clanrat unit, and lost combat when I challenged him with my champion(dying heroically), and was run down. My tunnellers took out his Earthshaker cannons, and by game end I destroyed his warriors through the turns of shooting and magic. I must've got IF 3 times that game. His magic did literally nothing. For this scenario you got extra battle points for holding hills, and 200 Vps for each held table quarter. We didn't bother checking VPs as I clearly won. I also held 2 hills. a good game.

The second game was messangers, where you had 2 messangers that had to get off the opponents table edge. You got an extra 150vps for each one you got off. This game was against High Elves. He had a mounted lord and 2 lvl 2 wizards for characters. One had high magic the other life magic. He also had a unit of spearmen, a unit of swordmasters, 2 5-man units of silverhelms(cav), one of which had the banner that allows them to move through difficult terrain as though it was clear. The other didn't have a standard. Otherwise, full command in each. He also had 2 units of 10 archers, 2 bolt throwers and 2 eagles. This game I lost, the Vp difference was about 395. It looked closer than it actually was. But all I really got from him vp wise was the silverhelm unit without banner and 1 eagle. Neither of us got messangers off. I lost my tunnelers in a cave in, made some mistakes with my other unit of Gutter runners, and a few other mistakes here and there which essentially cost me the game. Ah well. I believe I learned from my mistakes here. Still a good game.

The third game was magic flux. Here each magic phase you roll the number of casting/dispell dice you get at the very start of the phase. For each 1 you roll, you give up one of these dice to your opponent. It was against Brettonians. The had 1 unit of Grail Knights, one of questing knights, 2 other knight units(im not sure what type)3 pegasis knights, a Lord character, a BSB, 1 lvl 2 mage a trebuchet, and a unit of archers. This game I managed to win with a victory of about 350pts. My tunnellers killed her wizard and also got the trebuchet. But they in turn were destroyed by the archers. My magic didn't do too much until the last turn when they killed off 1 unit of 4 remaining knights except for the BSB. My shooting didn't do too much either, although the globadiers did finally manage to take out her pegasis knights. I lost one Warlock to the knights. There was a big combat in the middle between her main unit of knights + Lord and my main unit of clanrats + lord and another unit of clanrats in her flank. This lasted a few turns. I finally managed to get them to flee and caught them. A very good game.

So I came out 2 and 1 game-wise. But I didn't do very well when it came to my sportsmanship score. I guess I need a little more work on that. So in the end I didn't do very well overall. I'm not exactly sure where I placed, but the guy who ran it is going to post final overall results sometime this week, and I'll let you all know, if you're interested.

In the 40K tourney, I didn't do very well overall either. I won one game and lost 2. The first game I lost by pure bad luck, plain and simple. All I had to do was pass just one of two LD tests on 10s, and then the worst it would've been was a draw. I roll boxcars twice. Pure bad luck, plain and simple.

The second game there I lost as well, but I made some tacticall errors this time, and I know what they were. Hopefully I won't do it again, and obviously I won the third game.

Overall I still had fun at both RTTs, though. If you all want to know more about the 40K RTT, just let me know. But I figured since this is in the Fantasy section, I'd just give a brief summary there.

May The Great Horned Rat be with you and bless all your dice rolls.

Baron von Quirk
27-04-2005, 13:04
Greetings fellow followers of the Horned One just to say i am new to portent but would like to join the Council of 13 i am still confused about what to do.

I hink that i need to ask to be a champion ( i ofer myself to the will of the Horned one) but after that i do not know what to do please reply with details and i promise to be as commited to the Council as only a true follower of his Mighty Horned Rat can be.

skavenguy13
27-04-2005, 21:30
Well, the Horned Rat (Gman) said he's busy these days and he didn't come in a long time. Also, a lot of other newcomers wnat to become champions, join the club! A lot of seats are vacant (I'll update the seats list later) and there must be like 2-3 champions remaining. Anyway, we'll find a way to deal with this soon I hope.

*goes to re-makie the seats list*

skavenguy13
27-04-2005, 21:50
The Great Horned One : Geetarman
The Inquisirat:
seat 13 (the Verminlord) Shadow Hunter

seat1: Wormtail
seat12: Gnashrod

seat2: WarpPaw
seat11: with DangerMouse (now Alterion and he's a champion)

seat3:
seat10:

seat4: Efgy (now Egfy :p)
seat9:

seat5: Skavenguy13
seat8: EthrealAlpaca

seat6:
seat7:Termik

If you want to see the old list, just go to page 1 of the thread.

And all of you want to join:
Kwitchit
Inquisitor DreaxIV
TheLeaderOfYou
Artemis_Quinn
Urban Cowboy
Festering Chantor
therat
therisnosaurus
CauCaSus
Baron von Quirk

Baron von Quirk
28-04-2005, 13:19
Thanks for the info so if you could sign me up and maybe e-mail me with specific details it would be much appreciated.
Victory be to the Horned Rat

Warlord Gnashgrod
29-04-2005, 07:08
Greetings-greetings, all.

In the tourney, results which I posted above, something had occured to me in regards to the Skaven artillery/magic. The Warplightning Spell, Jezzails, and Poisoned Wind Globes all work somewhat similar to Plasma weapons in 40K(a roll of a 1 means that the model itself gets hit/wounded). So I figured that if you were shooting these things, and it turns out you're out of range, you still need to roll to hit because on a roll of a 1 you might hurt your own model. This is how it's done for plasma weapons. Has anyone else thought about this? What is everyone elses' idea on this?

On another topic, I was wondering if anyone might know how soon it'll be possible to buy the plastic Plague monks and Rat Ogres on their own? Right now you can only get them in the Battalion set. I'm interested in getting them, but I don't need the other models. I have more than enough.

Baron Von Quirk: IIRC, first you need to 'touch the pillar', which means that you need to answer some Skaven trivia questions posted here by either the GHO(Geeterman), the Inquisirat or the Verminlord(shadow hunter). If you answer enough of them correctly(2 out of 3, I believe), then you can request to be someone's Champion. And FYI, I'm looking for a newchampion. ;) :D

May The Great Horned Rat be with you and bless your dice rolls.

meowser
29-04-2005, 07:17
sign me up for becoming a champion

ReDavide
29-04-2005, 08:49
So I figured that if you were shooting these things, and it turns out you're out of range, you still need to roll to hit because on a roll of a 1 you might hurt your own model.

Absolutely. If your engineer is foolish enough to try to cast warp lightning at a target out of range, he deserves to get hit!

And on a broader level, it seems really unsporting to try to sneak out of an opportunity to wound yourself. We're Skaven. Killing ourselves is what we do best. It's the same situation as when you inflict 25% casualties by shooting into one of your own units. Sure, you only have to take a panic test from enemy fire, but anyone who wouldn't take a voluntary panic test desperately needs to find a sense of humor.

Inquisitor DreaxIV
29-04-2005, 13:10
Well since i asked quite awhile ago to join... could you send me my three questions so i can elavate to the rank of champion? :p

super_steve
01-05-2005, 21:57
firstly im really glad to see portent is back.
Now im being swayed into doing a skaven army, i want to do a shooty skryre's (sp?) army. so plz try to pursade me to the skaven ranks what dirty sneacky tricks can i pull with the rats?

-steve

Morskittar
02-05-2005, 08:56
Hey gang. It's been a bit. As usual I don't have the time to participate in Council affairs, but I thought I'd pop in and say hi. Thanks for holdin' my seat, Gnashgrod. ;)

Has anyone heard anything about new options or rules for Rat Ogres in the Lustria book? I'd love to see something to justify buying more of the damn things.

Also, is there anyone here who might be interested in organizing local playtest groups for a potential Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay sourcebook on the Skaven? At some point in the future... perhaps.

meowser
02-05-2005, 18:03
whats local for you?

shadow hunter
02-05-2005, 19:01
Greetings council.

Sorry, I have been house hunting, so I have been down south for the last 4 days.

Anyway. Well done on the tourny Gnashgrod. Yes, you definantly have to still roll for any items out of range, if they have the potential to do damage to yourself.

This may help your sportsmanship score too. If you go to shoot, and your unit is out of range, but then go on to say "but i will still roll, as there's a chance i may hit myself" they can only be impressed by your honesty.

I have the lustria book incase anyone is wondering.

I have read most of it, and its okay. I thought there would be a little more fluff in it (since I dont own a lizardman book) but there's enough.

What does everyone want to know?

It is crap you 'HAVE' to filed Nurglitch, as there's some interesting heros and lords to take instead.

Oh well. I'll try to answer any queries on it.

Also, I have ordered plastic monks on there own, and was told shipment would be around end of may.

Okay, onto council matters;

There are a lot of applicants, so I shall ask 3 questions for you all to answer.

The answers are to bePM'ed to either the GHO (G'man) the Inquisirat (Nurglitch) or myself. (so no-one can cheat).

If I have time I will then post a general story for the successful (and unsuccesful) applicants.

P.S. greetings again Morskittar and CauCaSus.

shadow hunter
02-05-2005, 19:04
I have some questions, but would appreciate any input from current lords. In 1 day i will ask either my questions (if no-one has come to me with any) or a combination of offerings.


May the GHO be with you! ;)

Morskittar
02-05-2005, 20:21
whats local for you?

Em... sorry. I meant coordinate with GMs online to playtest with their local groups.

It sounds like a Skaven book is on the back-burner at the moment though. I'll definitely come back and get word out if I get involved though.

Shadow Hunter; how is Nurglitch power-level-wise? I always assumed that actual Lords of Decay would be just short of charcters like the Witch King or Teclis; being that their favored agents had some unique wargear and abilities at their disposal. Also, he's supposed to represnt Nurglitch the First, correct?

shadow hunter
03-05-2005, 18:12
He is strong but not super powerful. I guess he is not quite at the power he is now, since it is before he joined the council.

He has 5 wounds, T5 and stats similar to a Plague Lord. As he has a mini retinue, he has 6 attacks which all count as a censor, plus frenzy.

One of the most powerful things, is that the unit he joins never loses frenzy. He has a bound spell, causing a hit on all models in it on a 6+.

I think, aswell as frenzied he suffours from hatred *looks in book* yep.

5+ward, and people suffer -1 to WS within 6", and if in BtB take a S4 wound with no armour saves

He also causes terror.

shadow hunter
03-05-2005, 18:13
Although he rides a giant rat, there are no rules for it (even movement) a bit pointless if you ask me. He would look far better walking on his own.


I have not recieved any questions, so I guess I'll ask my own.

shadow hunter
03-05-2005, 18:23
As I am about to have my dinner, I will be quick.






Greetings applicants, before becoming a champion for a mighty lord of decay, you must pass the trial. Answer 3 questions to show your dedication to the great horned one. Those that pass will be invigorated with immense power - those that fail will be a stinking pile of burnt flesh and furr.

1) Where is the location of Clan Moulders strong hold?


2) By what other name is 'The Curse of Thirteen' known?


3) What is meant by 'The Great Ascendancy' ?



Answer quick-quick

PM me with answers - afterall, you dont want to help other Skaven climb in power.... do you?

Egfy
03-05-2005, 20:45
seat4: Efgy (now Egfy :p)


Finally, after all these years, someone notices my name is, and always has been EGFY!!!!! Its amazing how often people misspell it.



*sneaks off to the lab to make skavenguy13 a special present involving lots of whirlling motors, lightning and at least one big red button*



p.s. really sorry i'm not posting more often, but i'm moving house at the moment and any free time i have is spent playing WoW.

PepperJack
04-05-2005, 00:54
Is this the best place to ask Skaven related tactic and rule questions or would you guys prefer I open a new thread?

Geetarman
04-05-2005, 08:51
greets council. My apologies for the massive absence of late, my nan has been in hospital and died a short time ago so things have been a bit fuzzy of late. But now the funeral is out of the way I hope to come back to the councils chamber quickly!

I haven't read what I've missed so far, but if I have been ousted (a very noble skaven activity in my absence really) then I will re-join as a lord instead, I shall now away to re-read the thread and see where we are! :)

THE (possibly) HORNED ONE

Gman

Geetarman
04-05-2005, 09:04
Right, firstly I am glad to see so many newcomers wishing to join the council, along with many of the old lords of decay who are still present! And that I still have top bunk! :D

Within the week I will publish a new set of joining rules so that all new applicants can apply to join the council, first of all we will need to try and get in touch with any other pre-existing lords to see if they wish to re-claim their seats (Nurgy is e-mailing me infrequently saying he has problems registering, I will attempt to get our inquisirat back online asap!)

Once we get the council sorted out we might then be best starting a new thread and closing this one to get down to the nitty gritty of the skaven tactica, the plan will be as follows: -

All members of the council to submit details (here) on a particular unit/character/magic item/combo of the lot/tactic each week, I (or someone whose feeling very generous and wants the power of the horned one behind them) will then take all this info and compile it into a document (the new book of the rat perhaps?) and we can then begin to compile a whole document for skaven players in an attempt to show them whats good, whats bad and whats SAD!

Fields I thought of including were: -
Item type (unit, char, mag item, tactic etc)
Typical size
Typical cost
Typical return (based on what its done/killed for you)
Strengths
Weaknesses
Other options (different equipment etc)
Units/armies to fight it with
Units/armies to avoid
Notes (or the general tactic if applicable)

We can start with the characters first if people prefer and I will create a document that people can then use as a guideline. Suggestions, comments additional idea's are all welcome. Lets get rebuilding the underempire! :)

Pepperjack - yes this will become the ultimate skaven QnA and tactica thread soon-soon! :)

Gman

Warlord Gnashgrod
04-05-2005, 20:29
Greetings-greetings, all.

Shadow Hunter: that sounds pretty good about Nurglitch. Thanks for posting what you did. I do have a question about the model, though. Do you know if he and his 'rat mount' are all one piece, or are they seperate? I have a few ideas for some interesting conversions, and was wondering if the rat mount was a seperate piece. Can you, or anyone else, tell me about this? Thanks in advance.

Geetarman: Nice to see you back. I would also like to offer my condolences to you for your recent loss. I myself lost my mother a year ago, and it still hurts some.

What you propose sounds like a good idea. Shall we start with the skaven Warlord? I think he's a good choice for a lord character. Less expensive than the Grey Seer, better fighter, and best of all, he has the highest leadership available to the Skaven. LD is very important to Skaven armies, as I'm sure everyone would agree.

Possible downsides; he is a lord, so you can only field him in 2000pts + games, Compared to other Lord choices in some other armies, he doesn't match up too well in terms of fighting abilities(Vampire Counts, for example).

Let's keep the ball rolling!

Morskittar
04-05-2005, 22:59
He is strong but not super powerful. I guess he is not quite at the power he is now, since it is before he joined the council.

Sounds interesting.

The current Nurglitch is the seventh to take the name (similar to the Pope choosing a name).

Geetarman; my condolences, I hope you’ve found solid support in family and friends.

shadow hunter
05-05-2005, 10:44
The current Nurglitch is the seventh to take the name (similar to the Pope choosing a name).


Quite right. I was typing fast as my dinner was ready, and muddled up my facts.


Sorry to hear the bad news G'man.


I will be okay for adding input. I have a little time here and there (inbetween buying another house) so can help out.

The characters are always a good place to start.

I would also be happy (maybe moreso) to put in fluff and stories into any book.

shadow hunter
05-05-2005, 18:30
Hope this works. This is another reason for my lack of funds currently (not the mcdonalds)

http://img191.echo.cx/img191/5096/p10100028tb.jpg

Judge Black
05-05-2005, 21:11
Guess who back, back again, Jb's back, tell a friend *realises its a rap song he is changing the words to* erm...Jingle bells?

Oooo, pretty bike, now if I can only think of a way to distract you for a moment all that power will be mine!!! Muh ha ha ha. hmm, what? was I thinking outloud again?

Anyway enough of a petty junk. I'm back and my life is getting back onto a kind of steady track, unlike recently and to tell you would involve a very long 'in the life of Jb' post and I know how much you love those ;).

On a more sercious note how many of you little rats are still up for the tournment in the summer that I mentioned, 18th -21st August...I am planning on going, depends if I can get enough guys intersted.

Jb

PepperJack
06-05-2005, 01:47
Ok, let me ask a "few" questions if anyone wouldn't mind sharing their experience or opinion.

1. Ratlin gun vs Warpfire throwers, any preferences or advantages? I seem to blow up 5 out 6 times with the warpfire.

2. Nightrunners come 20 in a box, but they are skirmishers. So what is a good unit size?

3. How effective would an engineer's warp lightning be against a cannon?

4. Are swarms worth the 20 point upgrade to poison?

5. Is there anything Skaven to use against armor (Chaos, Brets)?

6. Do any Dogs of War regiments compliment the skaven army? Seems like a good Skaven tactic to hire out!

7. Which style cheese is best to offer your opponent, sliced or diced? :p


Thanks in advance.

Warlord Gnashgrod
06-05-2005, 07:11
Greetings-greetings, all.

Pepperjack: I'll see if I can help you out with your questions. But I warn you, this will be a long post.

1: I think that the ratling gun is the better choice. The Warpfire Thrower is very unstable and uncertain. It can blow up with your very first use and do absolutely nothing. Or, almost as bad, it can either under or overshoot, and get very few hits. You just can't count on it. It's also more expensive than the ratling gun. The ratling gun will only ever missfire if you decide to get too greedy. It always can shoot out to 15 inches. This makes it much more reliable, but many people like to complain about it, calling it 'cheesy'. And I suppose that's true.

2: Having 10 nightrunners max to a squad seems best to me. I don't use them myself, but having more than that would make them rather unwieldly for skirmishers.

3: Well, against a cannon on it's own, warp lightniing isn't very effective. But since magic hits are randomized like shooting (1-4 hits cannon, 5-6 crew) it has a good chance of killing some or all the crewmembers if you can get hits on them. I would advice always casting Warp lightning at the higher level, giving you 2d6 shots. It's harder to cast, but the chances of getting 2 ones(and doing nothing to your target) is less than getting a single one on one dice(and also doing nothing to your target) You may still get a singe one out of the 2 dice, but then at least you're still doing something to the target. This is why I dislike the magic item Storm Daemon. It can only cast the lower level Warp lightning.

4: Whether or not giving poison to your swarms being worthwhile depends on how you plan to use them. I myself use them as a 'speed bump'; I use them to tie up their cavalry, chariots, or other hard hitting units for a while, so my other units are safe from them. I then also shoot at their tied up unit, and/or prepare flank charges. In this case, giving them poison isn't a good idea, as I don't expect them to do any real damage. But if you do want them to do damage, It could be worthwhile. I just wouldn't use more than 3 swarms in this way myself, and I'd also be careful to send them after average enemy units only. Not heavy-hitters.

5: There are plenty of things that can hurt heavy armor. Almost all of the Skaven shooting causes at least a -2 to armor saves(the only exception is the Warp Lightning Cannon, but I use it very rarely myself. Too unpredictable). Some a lot more. Jezzails are great cavalry poppers, if they actually hit their targets, anyway. There's also Warp lightning in the magic phase. Poisoned wind globes are pretty good too, as they completely negate armor saves. Plague monk censer bearers will negate armor saves as well in hand to hand with their fog of death. This is more effective against the Brets than Chaos, though, as fog of death works against the enemies' toughness, and Brets have an avg T of 3 vs chaos of 4 for their heavy armor.

6: I'm afraid I can't really help you out here, as I myself don't use Dogs of War.

7: Heh heh. I'd ofter them both types of cheese and let them choose. It's only fair.

Well, I hope this helped you out. Mind you all the above is only my opinion. Feel free to heed it or ignore it. And may you do well in your games.

May The Great Horned Rat be with you and bless all your dice rolls.

shadow hunter
06-05-2005, 11:03
Warlord Gnashgrod has given very good advice.

One thing I would say in favour of the Warpfire thrower - Is that if you do take one, your opponent will respect you a little more for taking a weaker item. Also, it does D3 wounds and causes panic. These are very good things to remember.

I have bought Beorg the Bearman as some Dogs of war, but have never got round to fielding them. I though the looks of them really compliment the skaven army though, and Beorg is a pretty tough cookie.

skavenguy13
06-05-2005, 22:28
Hi again! No-one told me the address changed until I spoke with Nick an hour ago, sorry!
For Lustria stuff: I hate the new list, especially compulsory Nurglitch. I mean, he is good IMO but NO CHARACTER, NEVER! deserves to be compulsory. It's just plain bad. Also, I hate the pussbags and still haven't figure out what they could be good for. The list would have been at least a bit good if we could take night runners.

For the questions: told you they're easy! I know 2 and not sure about the third, just on top of my head!



1. Ratlin gun vs Warpfire throwers, any preferences or advantages? I seem to blow up 5 out 6 times with the warpfire.
In about 25 shots of WFT, it went BOOM about 15 times and burned itself without dying about 10 times. IIRC, in 5 years, it only made 2 shots, killing a couple skeletons and empire spearmen.
Ratling gun is better as you have better control of the misfires and the number of hits. Also, it won't miss huge targets like a giant because it needs 4+ because the template is smaller than the base. I prefer the ratling gun, really.
2. Nightrunners come 20 in a box, but they are skirmishers. So what is a good unit size?
I always take 5 or 9 with 2 weapons. 2 units. They either screen weapon teams from shooting, flee from charges or go machine-hunting. Also, they can kill other skirmishers! You don't need more. Most people use the extra ones + capes to make gutter runners. Having about 6 scouts with poison is always good.
3. How effective would an engineer's warp lightning be against a cannon?
with 2 dice: great, you're almost certain to kill some crew, you even have a chance to destroy the cannon (must be lucky, it's easier with jezzails :p )
with only 1 die, it's useless.
4. Are swarms worth the 20 point upgrade to poison?
totally. They CAN kill warmachines crew/shooters with poison. Also, not only can they block a unit in CC for a couple turns, but it will reduce it's number and make more CR points for when you'll charge that unit (less ranks, outnumber).
5. Is there anything Skaven to use against armor (Chaos, Brets)?
flanking. They can't do a thing about it. Also, you can try this: make them pursue a slave unit so they charge the clanrats. Now, with rat-ogres or giant rats, flank. They got a panic test and possibly a fear test AND they surely won't have outnumber AND they will get 0 ranks AND you get extra attacks AND +1 for flanking. Awesome!
6. Do any Dogs of War regiments compliment the skaven army? Seems like a good Skaven tactic to hire out!
never tried, but it should work: 5 ironguts with musician and banner that reflects spell to other units nearby. Use them beside a slave unit, preferably near a flank of the table, and you got this "immuned" to magic guys with 3 attacks at S6
7. Which style cheese is best to offer your opponent, sliced or diced? :p
I dice his dead mnis and make cheese with it :D

Thanks in advance.

PepperJack
07-05-2005, 00:38
Ok, another question. I can't find this in the rules. How do you add up the rank bonus? If I have 5 ranks and my opponent has 2, what is my combat resolution?

I have a friend who claims that I can only count 3 ranks total. Anything over 3 doesn't matter. So I would out rank by 1. That doesn't sound right with the horde mentality.

Thanks,
PepperJack

Warlord Gnashgrod
07-05-2005, 09:37
Your friend is correct, Pepperjack. You only get to add 3 ranks to combat resolution. For Skaven, you also only get to add those same 3 ranks to your leadership. An important note on this is, if a Skaven unit gets flanked, they no longer get the LD bonus ffom their ranks, so watch out for flankers!

The horde army advantages are that if your unit is really large, you'll be able to keep your full rank bonus while taking casualties much longer than smaller units. You'll also get the extra +1 for outnumbering bonus to combat resolution. Also, you'll most likely have many units, so you can set up flank charges fairly easily. This all is where the 'horde advantages' come in.

You can find the rules for rank bonuses in the rulebook section on combat resolution modifiers, along with the outnumbering bonus, flank/rear charge bonuses, standard, higher ground, etc etc.

One other thing about the Warpfire thrower. Since it is a flame weapon, it is very usefull against enemies vulnerable to fire based weapons, like trolls.

Hope this all helps you out.

May The Great Horned Rat be with you and bless your dice.

skavenguy13
09-05-2005, 00:09
Welcome back everyone! After a huge massacre ( 2 vs 2 with my new orcs with lizzies against mortal khorne and HE), I bought the bataillon.

Good points:
2 rat-ogres in total, but 4 of each arms and 4 heads IIRC. We can choose how we want them!!!
Nice whips for the packmasters.
32 "giant" rats in total. If you put the small ones 2 by 2, you get 12 bases plus 3-4 rats to decorate other things (like packmasters).
Because the plague monk command is in the same sprue as the monks, this means we can make 4 commands (or 4 censer bearers as there's also a censer).
You get a lot of good decoration stuff (books, scrolls, daggers, rats).

bad points:
long to detach from the sprues :( man, that's 71 minis and they're really multi-part with decoration...
ducks, ehm, I mean clanrats with palms, are NOT re-sculpted (I'll say it a lot, I really didn't like that) :mad:
no-so-plague-ish monks.
plague monks are almost identical to packmasters: if you want more packmasters, simply make a whip for a plague monk. Or vice-versa if you want more monks.
The monks' huge sticks and paper pieces. WTF :confused:

On another note, my gaming club should play a lot of warbands this summer and I'd like to have some advice from people who tried it with skaven. I'll face just about every army, official or not (from halflings, treemen, kislevites to khorne demons or gnoblars, and most regular armies)

skavenguy13
10-05-2005, 03:58
I cleaned some of my bitz with the huge mold line and I can say this:
Tough to get rid of on rat-ogres fingers.
Goes right through the rat-ogres' teeth :WTF: :mad:
IMO there's less then on old models (like clanrats)
2 rat-ogres head are 1-piece with a mold line all around.
2 rat-ogres heads are 2-pieces, seperated where the mold line should be.
And sharp sticks hurt! Poked my finger real hard, bled a little (very small stick) and the metal tore! ouch! And now I have to use another sitick :(

shadow hunter
10-05-2005, 10:29
I hope the sticks weren't poinsoned ;)

Warlord Gnashgrod
17-05-2005, 19:31
Greetings-greetings, all.

It's nice to see Portent up again after almost a whole week of it being down. I was starting to get withdrawl symptoms. ;)

Anyway, I've been thinking lately, and I've decided to do some changes to my 2000pt list. It's back 2-4 pages here in this forum, if anyone's curious about it.

I decided to drop the Jezzail teams. They just don't seem to be worth the points to me anymore. They're not cost effective. I'm also trading in the WFT for a second ratling gun, and dropping the musicians from my slave units. The question now is what to replace these things with?

I've had a few ideas. One is a unit of 25 clanrats; handweaps, full command. I've also been thinking of a unit of 3 giant rat 'groups'(6 giant rats + packmaster) or maybe 2 Rat Ogres. The remaining points in all 3 cases will be spent on other units.

So what do you think would be the best choice? In all 3 cases they would be used as possible flankers or to go after war machines, etc etc. But I'm not sure what would be the best choice. So I thought I'd see what the general consensus would be here.

May The Great Horned Rat be with you and bless your dice.

skavenguy13
18-05-2005, 00:54
Now that I've checked your army list:
the extra clanrats/slaves would not help, they would only take more place. You really don't need that many units, you'll only have not enough space for them.
I found this as a good idea: You have 147 points left. Why not take 2 rat-ogres and 1 giant pack rat. They're both just enough to cancel rank bonus when you flank. Also, rat-ogres cause fear and their M6 gives you the ability to wheel and still keep up with the infantry.
With the 17 points remaining, give back the musicians to the slaves.

I also suggest this: drop your clanrats units to about 30 (25 for the one without banner) and take 2 units of night runners instead. One of 7-8 with 2 weapons and the other of 5-6 naked. Deploy the 2-armed ones just in front of the rat-ogres and the others are just screens, really. The 2-armed ones are especially useful against enemy skirmishers and scouts. They're better in CC. So, you have a 50 points anti-skirmishers unit. You better place these guys at the end or just in front of where scouts can be placed.
The naked ones are only to screen the rat-ogres. The big rats will easily be killed by shooting, magic and skirmishers. For 25 points, you can at the very least keep them one more turn.

skavenguy13
18-05-2005, 01:26
Hi again everyone!
I need your opinions on my lists. I will be facing either Khorne mortal or empire at the first game, dark elves at the second and I got no idea of my third game.

The Khorne guy plays something similar to this (EVERYTHING is marked Khorne):
super duper uber hero of death (should be with chosen knights)
5 chosen knights
5 non-chosen knights
15 warriors with halberds OR 25 marauders

I have no idea what the empire player wil have except knights and a helblaster.
The dark elf guy might have this (as he won all his 9 games before with that list)
sorceress
beastmaster on manticore :eek: TERROR
15 spearmen (sorceress)
15 crossbowmen full equipped
5 harpies
hydra :eek: TERROR

The Khorne guy is plain bad and there's just no way he'll win if he doesn't change his style. I played often against him at 2000 (he has 3000 though... long story) and only ever lost once... with my ogres :p The empire player isn't really good either but it shouldn't be that easy. And the dark elf player is just very good and beat me last time with that list :o .

So, here are my list if I'm going to face Khorne, then dark elves. Keep in mind I'm mostly looking forward to the fight against elves.

general, foul talisman, heavy armor, shield, great weapon
BSB with warpstone amulet and sword of might and heavy armor
25 clanrats full command with raling gun
24 clanrats full command
22 slaves musician
21 slaves musician
2 X 5 night runners
3 globadiers
3 poisoned swarms
6 scouts with poison weapons

By experience, the BSB in great in CC and everyone fears my general because of my legendary warp armor + enchanted shield combo, so I won't use it. The globos and night runners are there because of the frenzy and scouts to march block. Swarms are for the terror monsters really, or flanking knights.

List against empire (this guy won't have 6+ dispel dice so...)

general with bands of power, warpstone amulet, heavy armor, great weapon
2X warlocks with magic kit. One with storm daemon and one with warpscroll
2X 23 clanrats full command
2X 20 slaves musician
7 night runners with 2 weapons
3 poisoned swarms
5 scouts

Magic will completely destroy either his knights if he doesnt have 8 per unit (in which case I'll make slave traps) or his infantry. If the bands go through, the general should be able to withstand a knights charge and win. The other units can take care of the other knights. The scouts will march block and go for the helblaaster. The swarms go for the helblaster and are there for the battle against terror monsters.

So, what do you think? Should I change something, or do you have good tips for me?

Morskittar
18-05-2005, 18:40
I decided to drop the Jezzail teams. They just don't seem to be worth the points to me anymore. They're not cost effective. I'm also trading in the WFT for a second ratling gun, and dropping the musicians from my slave units. The question now is what to replace these things with?

Have you tried them against high points/high armor troops? Anyone who's familiar with that -4 save tends to give them disproportionate amounts of attention. That can be quite useful, especially being that you'll still usually get a few shots off first.

If you don't play against cav-heavy armies or stunties, they probably won't ever be useful.

In a related note, has anyone had succcess fielding large numbers of Globadiers?

Warlord Gnashgrod
20-05-2005, 15:39
Yes, that's what their main target is, Morskittar. Cavalry and the like with high armor saves or monsters with high toughness otherwise. But with a BS of only 3, most shots being done at long range, and the added modifiers from the Storm Banner, I don't get to hit very often. Not to mention I've only been taking 6 of them, which also decreases their effectiveness.

I do use a lot of globadiers currently as well. I have 9 of them in my current army. They work pretty good if used properly.

Morskittar
20-05-2005, 16:46
Yes, that's what their main target is, Morskittar. Cavalry and the like with high armor saves or monsters with high toughness otherwise. But with a BS of only 3, most shots being done at long range, and the added modifiers from the Storm Banner, I don't get to hit very often. Not to mention I've only been taking 6 of them, which also decreases their effectiveness.

I do use a lot of globadiers currently as well. I have 9 of them in my current army. They work pretty good if used properly.

Ahh... I'd never use them with the Storm Banner. It's either none or about 15 as well. They still don't do much, but I've seen more than a few opponents waste an extra turn or two trying to march across the table to get at them. A more experienced foe would probably reduce their value quite a bit.

super_steve
20-05-2005, 17:13
Hi im new to the skaven and am doing a clan Skryre army so am wondering what what lord choise you would take what to arm them with and allso what would you give to your warlocks and what tactic would you use with them.

cheers
-steve

Warppaw
22-05-2005, 19:17
Well Steve, I can say pretty certainly that the most used lord is the Warlord. Cheap and with a good leadership, he can be tooled up to go after characters or troops. Plus, when you use a Grey Seer, your options are pretty limited before you end up with a SAD (Skaven army of doom) army.

As for your warlocks, a couple of dispellscrolls and the stormdeamon is pretty standard.
They have a low leadership, so it can be smart to place them in units, where they benefit from the strenght in numbers rule. Then you can use warplightning to reduce unit strenghts, kill lone characters, cavalry, flyers, skirmishers, basically anything within range.

GW has stopped selling the metal RO on the online store. Sneaky bastards. Ohh well, as long as they don't stop selling the GR blister. IMO the only improvement in the plastic set are the packmasters.

skavenguy13
23-05-2005, 01:24
As I posted another place:

you can keep your chieftains cheap. When I equip them, I normally use one of these combos:
warpstone armor + ench.shield
bands of power + warpstone amulet + heavy armor + shield + 2nd weapon
foul pendant + heavy armor + shield + great weapon
desolate blade + enchanted shield + heavy armor

If I have 4+ magic levels (WE counts as 2) then I prefer bands of power

As for the warlock, it depends on how many you use
With only one:
scrollX2
scroll+storm daemon
With 2:
storm daemon + scroll
either the warpscroll give him the storm daemon


About the warlord:
He gives a really high LD to your troops so it's a good idea to keep him alive. Also, he is rather strong and with a normal unit of clanrats he should win against most things.
Here are the combos I usaually use:

if with 2 engineers: bands of power, warstone amulet, warpstone armor, enchanted shield: bound spell for S8, save 2+, 1+ in CC that hits opponents, ward save 4+

foul pendant, weeping blade, heavy armor, shield
bands of power, ring of darkness, enchanted shield, sword of might, heavy armor: with this combo, the best use is in stormvermin with a character slot unused. This way, you get MR1 for the stormvermin and he might think you have an assassin hidden. Psychology :evilgrin:

also, here's a good combo IMO for BSB:
heavy armor, warpstone amulet, sword of might. This guy doesn't seem like much but at 119 points IIRC he is really strong AND has the BSB abilities. In 9 consecutive games, here's what he did:
game 1: saved a big unit from breaking, didn't go into battle
game 2: lost after 5-6 phases of CC agaisnt dwarf warriors. In challenge, his BSB and mine each got 1 wound. His banner really helped.
game 3: killed the enemy skaven chieftain in 1 shot on the charge, saved his unit from breaking.
game 4: won against winged lancers, then stood 3-4 phases of CC with horse archers+boyar in the flank. He got killed in challenge so I finally broke.
game 5: won against dragon princes, saved slaves from breaking from swordmasters, charged the flank and the swordmasters lost.
game 6: got destroyed by flames of the phoenix :(, but did annoy my opponent
game 7: killed the general (runesmith) 1-shot on the charge so I won combat against ironbreakers.
game 8: saved a unit from breaking but never went into CC.
game 9: didn't save my general's unit from breaking, won combat against dark elf spearmen.

super_steve
23-05-2005, 15:50
do you normally give your warlocks all of there upgrades? i was planing on having 3 and either a grey seer or warlord not sure yet.

skavenguy13
23-05-2005, 16:42
With more than a single engineer, I always give them full magic kit. I never take the pistol as it doesn't do a lot and in CC you already have S4 due to warpblades. 2-3 enginners with warlord is good IMO.

Warlord Gnashgrod
24-05-2005, 15:27
Greetings-greetings, all.

Super-steve: Personally, I find that warlocks are best used as true scroll caddies. Give both warlocks 2 dispell scrolls each. I find that the Storm Daemon is a complete waste of points against an opponent that knows what he's/she's doing.

Consider the fact of what Storm Daemon does; 1D6 S5 hits at range 24in. The worst then it can do is cause 6 casualites on the enemy, or maybe get rid of a lone character or wound a monster. Considering that the Warlocks also are each able to cast the higher level of this spell, which is 2D6 S5 hits, it's obvious which is more dangerous. The whole point of having Storm Daemon would be to cause your opponent to burn dispell dice/scrolls to stop it. But unless you're targeting something really important, he never will, because of the considerable bad effects to you: You could roll a 1 on the number of hits, which would almost guarrante a wound or your warlock, or you could roll a 1 on the roll to see if you can use the Storm daemon in later turns, or even worse, both could happen. Frankly, if your opponent knows this, he'll let you cast the spell.

I would say get the Warpscroll, but it costs 30 points, which means your warlock can't also carry a dispell scroll. Dispell scrolls are VERY important. True, magic isn't as nasty as it was in previous editions of the game, but the right spell at the right time can still cause game-changing effects. And at those times, you're going to wish you had the certainty of a dispell scroll to stop the spelll instead of the possibility of the dispell dice.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents. Take it or leave it.

May The Great Horned Rat be with you and bless all your dice rolls.

Warlord Gnashgrod
24-05-2005, 15:32
Well, I've decided what I'll change in my army. I'm going to first try and see how a unit of 3 giant rat packs will work for my army. With the remaining points I will add a Poisoned wind globadier and another tunneling eshin rat to my tunnelling team. The remaining points are spent on my slaves.

Unfortunately, about the only time I ever get to play around here is at tournements. I wish this was different, but I have no real way to change it. So I don't get to play as much as I'd like to. The big game around here is 40K, which I also like. But I do wish I got to play more fantasy as well.

May The Great Horned Rat be with you and bless your dice.

Sariel
24-05-2005, 19:26
Has anyone tried using the SoC Eshin list with normal Skaven tactics (ie Clanrats, ratling guns, Jezails, slaves etc)?

I've been running the following list with a decent amount of success, but was wondering if there's anything I've missed (gone up against Tomb Kings, VC, Dark Elves, High Elves so far, with nothing worse than a draw heavily in my favour)

Master Assassin, Warpstone Stars, Ring of Darkness
2 Sorcerors, 1 scroll each
2 Triads
3-4 units of 5 night runners
2 units of 25 Clanrats, full command, ratling guns
3 units of 21 Slaves
1 unit of Gutter Runners (tunnelling team)
6 Jezails
3 giant rat packs
3 Rat Swarms (not poisoned)


Sorcerors stay with the Clanrats to boost their leadership. Ratlings stay close and gun down anything that comes close. They'll be casting Skitterleap every turn, using their warpstone tokens on the first turn. That's usually good enough to eat up 2 scrolls, since its usually cast on the Master Assassin, but not always.

The Sorcerors don't always have anywhere to go, but I've taken down lone T3 mages with single Sorcerors before. 2 poisoned magical attacks are useful. If nothing else, they can always skitterleap to contest table quarters on turn 6.

Master Assassin will hang out with Clanrats, but will also run around, spreading his leadership where it can do the most good while taking pot shots with his Warpstone Stars..
(his best kill to date - a High Elf Prince on a Dragon that had already taken 2 wounds to jezail fire. 2 hits on the Dragon, 2 hits on the Prince. He fails all 4 saves on 5+, instant 600 VP!!)

Triads go hunting for soft targets (ie mages, light cavalry, enemy skirmishers) or charge in support of ranked units (preferably clanrats, though I've used Slaves in the flank before!).

super_steve
24-05-2005, 19:52
2-3 enginners with warlord is good IMO.

Is a grey seer worth it ? and what wargear would you give him ?

skavenguy13
25-05-2005, 01:26
I rarely use grey seer, and the stuff I give to the casters depend on how many/which type I have. I always thought the seer is too much points, the warlord + engineers seem beeter and due to the reputation that magic in my store, he's not a good idea.

To give you an idea: in tourneys, you lose points if you have 5+ magic levels or characters over 300 points, which makes the seer useless (bad items, no support). This is why I realized the warlord+2 engineers is really good, particularly in this situation.

Ethereal Alpaca
25-05-2005, 13:36
http://www.portent.net/forums/showthread.php?p=39507#post39507

Here's the council roleplaying thread, so we can keep the two separate. Enjoy!

Rabid Bunny 666
28-05-2005, 02:04
hello council members

i am thinking of doing a clan eshin army after seeing the sniktch model after a very long time, so does anyone have any ideas of how to make the eshin SOC list semi descent as i'm no good at warhammer armies, i'm more of a boltgun man :D

help would be GREATLY appreciated

skavenguy13
28-05-2005, 02:31
How size do you want it?
What type of play do you prefer?
Which armies will you play against?
What models do/can you have?

Then we can help.

Rabid Bunny 666
28-05-2005, 02:35
in order

about 1,500-2,000
choosing when and where to fight, a suitable horde
undead, HE and ogres :(
nonoe yet/whatever i can affored at the time

the solution is to get a summer job or flog my chaos army which has seen 3 games since SOC :)

skavenguy13
28-05-2005, 14:33
I'm no eshin expert but this could be nice:

master assassin with bands of power and talisman of protection
assassin with warpstone stars
eshin sorcerer with dispel scroll
eshin sorcerer with warpstone scroll
4 poison rat swarms
3X10 night runners with 2 weapons and slings
8 night runners with 2 weapons and slings
9 tunnelers with poisoned stars and weapons
2X6 gutter runner with poisoned stars and weapons
triad
note: everything has smoke bombs.

Rabid Bunny 666
28-05-2005, 15:31
cool, thank you, i'm still thinking about warhammer in general, its between 3 armies at the moment, HE, clan eshin and pirate zombies :wtf:

super_steve
02-06-2005, 03:24
Just putting together my first unit of Clanrats :D and im just wondering what is the best way to rank up a 30 rat unit ? 5 wide by 6 deep or 6 wide and 5 deep?

Warlord Gnashgrod
02-06-2005, 15:15
Just putting together my first unit of Clanrats :D and im just wondering what is the best way to rank up a 30 rat unit ? 5 wide by 6 deep or 6 wide and 5 deep?

I myself rank my units 5 wide and 6 deep, as it will allow you to keep the maximum rank bonus for longer than the other way. It also makes your frontage smaller, which makes it easier to maneauver allong with your other units, IMO.

Hope that helps.

May The Great Horned Rat be with you.

skavenguy13
02-06-2005, 22:12
I think it should depend on your opponent. If you face a shooty/magic army then you should make 6 ranks. However, against a CC army, the extra rank is useless until like the 3rd CC phase and skaven usually don't last that long.

Harrisondaly
04-06-2005, 17:00
im a skaven player who would like 2 join

skavenguy13
04-06-2005, 21:12
The problem is, Geetarman isn't there and MANY people want to join the council. If G'man doesn't do something soon, I will!

BTW, every council member, I'd like to hear about you as most of us are almost inactive right now. Looks like the council will almost re-start or something.

skavenguy13
05-06-2005, 03:30
Woohoo! :D

I just lost in the final of my local club's league. 16 players playing 9 games to qualify for eleminations. I went 4-1-4 and finished 3rd. Then in quarterfinals I won against a rather n00b empire player (he replaced someone), then won on turn 2 :eek: against that expert Kislev player (semi-final), finally I lost by about 200 points agaisnt an expert orc player.

It was a 1000 points league and I had this list:

chief with bands of power, warp amulet, heavy armor, great weapon
WE with storm daemon and magic kit
WE with warpscroll and magic kit
2 X 23 clanrats command
2 X 20 slaves musician
7 night runners 2 weapons
3 poison swarms
5 scouts

In my first game, I played a tough empire list:
captain with ???
magician level 2
8 inner cercle knights
8 inner circle white wolves
10 handgunners
helblaster.

Basicly, I used to warpscroll on turn 1 to kill the handgunners and zapped the wizard on turn 2 before he did a thing. His white wolves gave me trouble but I finally beat them, they broke, went too far but I zapped them to death. The knigths with captain killed some units, fled from a charge and rallied at the very end of the game. His helblaster fired 5 times, killing nothing but didn't misfire once! I won by about 300 points because of his 4/8 knights and captain.

Next, against kislev:
3 X 5 winged lancers (no command)
5 horse archers
23 cossacks with boyar (get stubborn)
7 gryphon legion with command

In first turn, WE #1 zapped 2 winged lancers, the unit never rallied. WE #2 used the warpscroll against cossacks, killed half the unit and they rallied. He also zapped 3 winged lancers who rallied. His gryphon legion beats a unit of clanrats. WE #2 then zaps all the gryphon legion, WE#1 almost finishes the cossacks, my slaves beat and ran down 5 winged lancers :wtf: and my gutter runners killed a remaining 2 lancers.

He then gave up. End of turn 2. He had 5 horse archers in bad position and 9 cossacks+boyar left by then, and only killed 1 unit of clanrats.

Next was against orcs:
black orc hero on boar
like 15 boar boyz
6 wolf riders
21 big uns with 2 choppas
21 boyz with 2 choppas
20 night goblins with command and 3 fanatics

My magic almost finished the orc boyz unit pretty quickly (5 left). His fanatics killed a whopping 0 models in the game in total. I charged his wolf riders with my night runners and won. I zapped half of his boar boyz. Then my swarms hit the flank of the boyz, somehow killed 3 :wtf: and ran them down, including the general. The big'uns were barley in range to charge some clanrats and won after 2 turns.

The goblins killed my swarms in about 3 turns. One of my WE killed himself with 2 ones trying to zap big'uns, the other WE lost the storm daemon (bad...very bad). My 5 gutter runners and 20 slaves charged 5 remaing orcs. I somehow lost ??? due to extreme bad luck. My clanrats + general got charged by big'uns. Because of the auto-destruction of my WE, they still had about 20 orcs. They did like 9 kills with 10 attacks, I fled but wasn't catch and rallied. Game finished and I lost by about 200 points, mostly due to luck/badluck in the last turns.

Still, I had a very good day

Warppaw
05-06-2005, 06:39
How did your sportsmanship score end up? Because, and I mean no offence, your list was rather magic/character heavy for a 1000 point list.
Anyways, congratulations on the 3rd. (?) place.

Gman? Shunter? Nurgy? Anyone?
Right. Let's give them until tomorrow to turn up. If they don't we'll post some new questions for anyone who wants to join. Do you want to handle it '13, or should I?

skavenguy13
05-06-2005, 16:49
I could post the questions, but wait a bit: I have tons of work to do THIS WEEK (end of school year) and I have to ask every challenger to be ready for a little quiz.

Gman and Shunter didn't post for more than a week and Nurgy never came back after the crash. We should give seats priority to the members already there then to the best challengers I think.

And about my league, it was purely on the result of the battle. The other days I played with a basic list but my only loss was against a guy I was almost certain to play against in the finals. And I stood no chance: 2 terror-things: manticore+hydra. I finished 3rd in the qualifying round then lost in finals, therefore ranked #2 (finals count:D) Also, I only took 3 WE, I could have taken 3 :eek:

Verminlord K
05-06-2005, 18:35
Good to see your still active!

Feeding time in Lustria!

skavenguy13
05-06-2005, 18:57
I will PM everyone that asked to become a council member in the next days. There will be a lot of quetions asked so we will be able to decide who gets the best seats. Also, the faster=the better.

Every active member on non-challenger: please PM me (not here obviously) some questions about skaven background. I don't have 6739 ideas you know!

Warlord Gnashgrod
05-06-2005, 20:18
Greetings-greetings, all

Skavenguy13: Well, I'm still around, so don't think that I'm not. Sometimes there's just no time to post.

On July 16th there's going to be a Fantasy RTT near me at 2000pts I believe, and I plan on going to it. On June 18th there's a 40K RTT that I'll be attending, playing my Converted Tau army. If anyones interested, I'll let you all know how that goes. Wish me luck!

I'll post my army list for the Fantasy RTT in a later post, as there's still plenty of time before that tourney starts.

Is anyone else still interested in G-Mans last written idea here; that we start creating a general tactica, listing all the strengths and weaknesses of each character, core unit, special unit, etc? I already made a bit of a statement on the Skaven Warlord some pages back(Just after G-man's last post), but no-one else seemed interested in doing any more. How about now?

May The great Horned Rat be with you.

skavenguy13
05-06-2005, 20:50
I'm still interested but I think it'll have to wait, with council new stuff and challengers and all... We'll let things go back to "more normal" before we'll do anything big I guess.

Geetarman
06-06-2005, 20:00
Gaaah, stupid life, stupid job, stupid everything!

My muchos apologies for not posting of late. There have been many-many problems with my connection and I am also in the stages of now plotting my wedding (end of July) and am also having a major house shuffle (although not moving like Shunter which probably takes up much of his time.

I am aware that Nurgy never returned after Portents demise and Shunter was running out of time before the crash and is probably moving house soon so may have even less time at present. All in this is not a good time for the council admin! :(

I am not rightly sure if re-establishing the council in it previous state is worthwhile whilst there is a chance that portent could disappear again very shortly (nothing has been confirmed either way still from my investigations) so what would the council like to do in the matter? Either way I will e-mail Nurgy and see if he can make it back online. I vote to abolish seats for the time being and use this chamber just as a tactics/skaven chat thread until such time as Portents future can be established. What do the remaining members of the council think?

Gman

Warlord Gnashgrod
06-06-2005, 20:07
No need for an apology, G-Man. Real life affairs come first, and there's always going to be times when it interferes with one's entertainment. I hope things go well with your wedding in July as well. Congratulations!

As for doing away with the seats, I myself don't mind either way too much. I would prefer to keep the seats, but if the majority would prefer to see them go, I will agree. It's not that important to me. But my vote would be to keep the council seating.

May The Great Horned Rat be with you.

Geetarman
06-06-2005, 20:18
Gaaaah! I typed up a big long reply and its bloody gone!

Anyway, it went something like this...

Muchos apologies for my lack of presence, my comp link went down and I am also currently plotting my wedding (due in July) and having a major house re-organisation (although not on the scale that Shunter is).

Because of this, and Shunters absence (probably due to his move) and Nurgy's absence (since the crash, but I hope to e-mail him asap!) its questionable where we go from here there are many options, re-structure the whole council again (a lot of work), or alter the nature of the council, which is actually less work.

I am loathed to do too much in the group whilst portents future has not been decided, I know my fiancee would not be pleased for me to spend my time on this whilst the wedding looms.

I therefore propose one of two things, either we: -

Bin the coucil seats (for now at least, but still acknowledge those in power), turn the council into simply a skaven tactica thread and advertise for all skaven chat and Q's to go here, also try and combine our energies to create a new "book of the rat" which I mentioned a while ago, or

Re-form the council by increasing everyone's rank to the highest poss (obviously those with high seats at present will get the highest seat, lower seats get the lower ones available) leave seat 13 fre (shunter is still technically the verminlord and I still technically the horned one who do not need make too many appearances unless e-mailed otherwise in which can we can intervene).

Then the administration jobs can be sorted out among the lords and there shouldn't really ever be any challenges (as applicants must serve at least a month before they can try for a seat and only if they have given the council something very previous, such as spent a long time on a document for skaven tactics vs undead or something) but any challenges that do arise can still be fought by me (although people will need to e-mail my hotmail account petecopper@hotmail.com in all instances to get my attention (think of it as praying ;) :D )

What do people think?

THE HORNED ONE

Gman

Warppaw
06-06-2005, 21:06
I say we can the seats until we know where things are going. There's really no use messing about with seats if this place is going to go belly up too.

I've got some time on my hands (as usual :rolleyes: ), so I could give the tactica another go if you like Gman.
And congratulations on your upcoming wedding.

skavenguy13
06-06-2005, 22:19
Well I'm kind of relieved you came back and about the abolition of seats really as I was going to put things back together, but I have very little free time this week and I'll go on a 2-weeks trip soon.

However, don't say Portent will crash or something as it won't. Nick bought a 6 or 12 (not sure) server, we should only change the name when we'll choose one.

Geetarman
07-06-2005, 08:38
Hurrah the work firewall is down, a quick post from me before I get on with work :)

Thanks for the congrats Warpy and Warlord, its been in the pipeline quite a while but its finally coming up, cant say I am nervous though, or that bothered about it all but its what she wants and we must keep our females happy :D

Would someone like to take on the title of inquisirat? This would then give a figurehead to the council when I am not about to try and start re-forming the council?

We'll wait a little while before deciding to bin seats or not as some have voted both ways, lets see what a bigger majority think first but if we keep them someone will need to do a role call for current lords, sort the list of applicants into order of application and then sort new seats, no small feat in itself!

Warpy - I would be very happy if you would like to take on the book of the rat again, did you see my previous comments quite a while ago on one way of summarising things?

Skavenguy - I am very grateful for your willingness to step into the breach during my absence, I realise that portent has more backing this time round so am hopeful that it wont go under, however I never say never and so am still waiting for things to become a little more concrete first, but hopefuly things are on the up and up :)

Gman

Geetarman
07-06-2005, 08:41
http://www.portent.net/forums/showthread.php?p=55623#post55623

Ethereal started the above thread, I think this is a great move and that all seat organising etc should continue there, this will all be in character stuff once the seats are sorted so that we can keep plotting and roleplay of sorts there whilst continuing the skaven tactics etc here.

Gman

Warppaw
07-06-2005, 10:33
Gman; I saw them, and I've taken the liberty of making some adjustments .

Tactica;
What I want to know is;

Characters;
What do you usually equip them with?
What are their strengths and weaknesses (Generally, but also strengths and weaknesses with that specific equipment)?
What is their role in your army (Is your Warlord a strict general, do you use him to kill enemy characters, and so on)?

Units;
Which size do you use them in?
What do you usually equip them with?
What are their strengths and weaknesses? (Generally, but also strengths and weaknesses with that specific equipment)
What is their role in your army? (Cannonfodder, march blocker, and so on)
Which specific units do they target?

Last time we did one entry at the time, and it took far too long. Soo this time were going to go according to catagory. We'll start with the lord choices, then the heroes, core units, special units and finally the rare units.
I, or someone else will write up a summary for each entry, and post it here for comments.

And to make my life a little easier, make a headline for each entry.
Now get cracking!

TheNurglitch
07-06-2005, 21:17
Hello Rats? How are you doing today? Good? Nice to hear!

So, I return in Mr. Burns style (quote from good ole` Shadow Hunter).

How do you like the new models and the whole Lustra campaign thing?

I must admit that I`m quite taken by the new Nurglitch model :] :D

Can someone post the Seat lists and new applicants so that I can control it?

What would you say about creating our own homepage- Council`s Homepage? It would be simple and clear but would give an inlook into the Council matters and seats.

Keep your tails low, since Deathlord is around ;-)

skavenguy13
07-06-2005, 21:42
Nurgy: The seats are a page or two ago, I tried to keep things going a bit while you guys were busy. I'm not sure about the internet site, I like it here! We should talk about this when things will be more stable. And about the new models, I really like the plague lord and the accessories in the monks' sprue. I really don't like the censer bearers, the mold lines of "giant" rats. The rest is "not bad" IMO.

Gman: congrats :D (forgot to say it)

Warppaw: I'd like these categories too:
a models section
maybe a painting/converting section
combos (like night unners with rat-ogres, to screen)
how to use them in a battle
deployment :D
What is better against which race-unit
How to prevent things
an analysis of the clans

Warppaw
07-06-2005, 22:06
a models section
maybe a painting/converting section


In a tactical guide? How about a kitchen sink while we're at it?


combos (like night unners with rat-ogres, to screen)
how to use them in a battle
deployment
What is better against which race-unit
How to prevent things
an analysis of the clans

All of the above goes under the heading of tactics, which we'll get to once we've adressed the various units.

Good to have you back Nurgy.

leeoaks
07-06-2005, 22:55
beat your ratty backsides today for the first time!!! against a tourney champ 2!!!! how i gloat!

skavenguy13
07-06-2005, 23:33
and you are?

warppaw: Well, I thought we could give our opinions on the models range and ideas to paint/convert in this guide too, as it's also questions lots of people ask.

Warppaw
08-06-2005, 12:19
Lets finish an assesment of the units first and see then.
So, entries on Warlords and Grey Seers please.

Warlord Gnashgrod
08-06-2005, 20:06
Greetings-greetings, all.

If you wish to see my insights on the Warlord, just check back 2, 3 or so pages. It's back there somewhere.

Onto the Grey Seer.

The Grey Seer is the most powerful wizard the Skaven army can get. He has access to all the spells, many of which are very destructive to the enemy. Another great part of this is although one of the spells has an effect similar to a remain in play spell(the spell in quetion is Death Frenzy) it's not an actual remain in play spell. The effects are permanent untill the unit loses a hth attack, and the Seer can still cast other spells. He also has access to Plague, another deadly spell. and you need the Grey Seer to get the Screaming Bell, which is a nice chariot-like mount for the Seer that might do great damage to the enemy army.

The downsides of the Grey Seer: He is very expensive: 235pts bare naked IIRC. He's only LD6, so if he's your only Lord and thus the general, you max LD will be 9. Some of the spells, like Plague, could cause just as much damage to your army as the enemy. The Grey Seer isn't good in hth, like the Warlord is. Finally, the screaming bell, while it's very nice and would provide a definite centerpiece for an army, works in a completely random way. It could be devestating to the enemy. It could immediately blow up as well. But this IS of course very 'Skavenish". :p ;)

Anyway, there's my 2 cents on the Grey Seer. Hope you liked it.

May The Great Horned Rat be with you.

Sashu
09-06-2005, 04:21
How do you all equip your clanrats and slaves?

Geetarman
09-06-2005, 12:27
woot! system firewall down again! some precious minutes to post before it comes back, I will read what has been posted thus far on the tactics etc and add my own insights over the weekend...

Nurgy its good to have you back, and whose this deathtail person?

Sashu - a very topical question that. I think how you arm the unit depends entirely on who your facing and the size of it. Clanrats, for me, when I go up against equal to worse standard infantry (such as empire, goblins, undead etc) and I am looking for a more offensive unit then I like to take the spears to gain the extra attacks.

If I am going up against better troops then I go with hand weps and shields and try to bog them own in a war of attrition.

With slaves I don't give them anything extra bar the musician, they simply are too cheap to give any extra equipment, and their stats don't warrant it. Its better to double the size of the unit, or take several extra units, than to put so many points into them. The best way to use them is take a unit of 20/30 slaves and use them to distract people by placing them on flanks, tie up expensive opposing infantry that cant deal with their larger numbers effectively or draw frenzied units of fanatics etc away from your main line.

I remember in one game I played a unit of 30 slaves and musician (62pts?) dragged a unit of witchelves half way across the battlefield, by the time the slaves were torn up the witches (about 20 of them) were so far from combat they never got stuck in again. 62pts for a 300 odd point unit kept busy, now thats economics!

THE HORNED ONE BLESSES HIS KIN

Gman

Warppaw
09-06-2005, 16:31
Personally I give my clanrats spears, mainly because I think it looks better, but I also like the added flexibility. The five extra attacks on the second round of combat, or when I get charged usually doesn't do very much, but my clanrats have dragged down chaos warriors in the past, so you never know. Plus, I can always use handweapons if I need to.

The slaves go to battle with only a handweapon and a musician. They're there to die, so there's no use in raising their pointcost.

Thanks for the input Gnashrod. The rest off you get busy!

Edit; On another note, I've gotten a confirmation that I'm a skaven player at heart. Even with an elite army like CSMs, my basic instincts is to make it as close to a horde as possible and be annoyed at the lack of cheap cannonfodder :D

skavenguy13
09-06-2005, 21:43
Basicly, I use spears only if I have points left. And I always give the slaves a musician, but nothing else. For some reason, I seem to be one of the rare ones to use small blocks (25 max). Even then, I think they do pretty good, especially for their points.

Warlord Queek
10-06-2005, 00:47
I would like to apply to be a champion!
I'm an all-through Skaven-player and I'd love to be in The Council of Thirteen

Devoted to the Horned Rat forever,
Warlord Queek

Sashu
10-06-2005, 06:05
While this is a rule qjestion... I don't have the posts to make a new post. Yay! And this is the closest thing to being on topic. How big is the Screaming Bells base? Is it 80mm by 40mm OR 60mm by 40mm. I would think it is 80mm x 40mm but not sure. I want to mount it by so.... Any how, thanks.

Geetarman
10-06-2005, 09:37
woot, 3 times in one week, god those network boys cant do their job properly! :D

Sashu - the screaming bell fits nicely on 6 normal clanrat bases, so that makes it 40x60. Indeed I have mounted my spearrat unit on oddly shaped bass so it can house the bell with only the removal of a single base of skaven :)

Gman

skavenguy13
10-06-2005, 12:59
It's shown in the book, page 30. You can clearly see the bell is 2 bases wide (40 mm) and 3 bases long (60mm).

Warlord Gnashgrod
10-06-2005, 14:53
Greetings-greetings, all.

I myself keep my Clanrats armed witht the basic hand weapons, LA, and shields. I find the +1 armor save in hth more valuable than being able to fight in 2 rows. Usually, Skaven are faster than the infantry of the other army(Elves of course, being the exception) So you should be doing the charging. Then the spears mean nothing that first round of hth. Also, hand weapons are cheaper, so you can have more troops. With Skaven, it's all about the horde, IMO

Slaves at best have a musician. They're there to die, not fight well. Usually, I use them to draw out the enemy units by having them flee from charges, which then, if things go right, leaves the enemy unit vulnerable to charges from your other units. Slaves also soak up missle fire.

I've managed to put up some pictures of my converted Warlord, Grey Seer and Screaming Bell in the photos section of my gaming groups egroups website. The link to the website is below:

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/IamJacksHobby/

You can find the pictures by clicking of the Photos link on the left and then going to the album labeled "Skaven pictures"(or more accurately, 'Skaven p..."). I apologize in advance for the poor quality of the pics. This was only the 2nd time I've taken pictures of my models.
I hope you like them!

May The Great Horned Rat be with you.

Taishar
12-06-2005, 10:34
Zug Zug.

Been a while, kinda lost track of the thread amongst the server changes.

Haven't played too much fantasy lately, playing a Mordheim as Skaven and crushing (21 models =D).

Hope everyone has been well.


Cheers

TheNurglitch
14-06-2005, 09:11
1. Hello Taishar :D

2. hello WarpPaw! ;-)

3. Hello all other Ppl! I see you are doing the tactics documents again, as the keeper of our Council I downloaded loads of our documents- I attach some of them, I have much much more :]

4. What is happening to Wormtail and Shadow Hunter?

5. I attach the Council seats, the OLD version. Please tell me what has changed and especially WHO has changed!

Geetarman
14-06-2005, 11:49
Greets all

Nurgy - where did you get that lord doc from, who did it as its good. I hope to get the final book of the rat tactica to be a little more summarised with free text sections giving some examples (see my examples below for the lord choices) but that will be a good source to start :)

Anywho, here are my reviews of the lord selections for skaven, I realise its not got all the bits in requiested but will backtrack and fill anything in thats missed asap:-

CLASS:- Warlord

STRENGTHS:-
Very Cheap, good LD, multiple roles possible, all rounder

WEAKNESSES:-
Average lord stats vs most races.

GOOD VS:-
All

BAD VS:-
None

TACTICS/USES:-
Use as a LD generator sitting in the middle of your army his Ld combined with rank bonus's can give up to a whopping LD 10, ensuring your rats stand their ground for quite some time. Kit him out with goodies to help him survive any encounters (such as warpstone amulet etc) but don't go overboard on points creating a point sink, keep him cheap and at the back unless fighting weak to average RnF troop.

As a character hunter armed to the teeth with killer weapons (bands of power, weeping blades, blade of desolation etc) and then sent on his own or with a skirmisher unit to track down other heroes (this can be disasterous if your opponent can avoid him effectively, and not as effective vs powerful characters such as Chaos, Undead etc).

RnF support/killer armed with 2 handed weapon, some protective magic equipment but kept cheap a lord can happily sit umong clanrats or his personal retinue of stormvermin and chop up most standard RnF (even cavalry) with a fair amount of ease. Be careful that he doesn't get drawn into a challenge vs characters unless weak, or that he is stuck in a combat he can't win quickly as his points need to be used effectively.

COMBINE WITH:-
Stormvermin, plague monks, rat ogres, other large units of clanrats in offensive manner. Or any large basic unit for D

PRIMARY TACTIC:-
Varies dependant on role chosen.

WARPTOKEN RATING:-
# # # # #



CLASS:- Grey Seer

STRENGTHS:-
Immense magical ability,

WEAKNESSES:-
High cost, weak stats

GOOD VS:-
High and Low magic races (elves, dwarves)

BAD VS:-
Races with multiple fear/terror causing units (chaos).

TACTICS/USES:-
The grey seer is the most powerful magic use in the skaven arsenal but needs to be protected. They should either be tucked in at the back of the army and be armed with something such as skalm the crown of thorns the warstone amulet or the cloak or put in the rear of a unit when things get hairy (note this will limit casting abilities whilst stuck at the back).

The seer should always be supported by another warlock to air his magical abilities and should employ his warptokens early in the game to give that extra edge close to the start, the opponents units are nearer the edge of a table and so if forced to flee there is less chance they will rally. Also if you can eliminate other casters quickly it will increase your magical dominance.

The seers powers are all useful, skitterleap can be used to move him out of trouble, or move himself or other characters to a suitable spot to deliver a devastating attack.

Other spells such as plague etc are especially useful vs most troops but lower toughness hoards or high armour elites are most effective targets.

Overall the seer should concentrate his spells on a single target, eliminate this target quickly and then move on, if he only destroys one unit during the game, if that one unit was worth just as many points as the seer then he was worth it.

PRIMARY TACTIC:-
Stand at the back, avoid combat like the plague, bring power to bear as early as possible to eliminate magical resistance and concentrate powers.

WARPTOKEN RATING:-
# # # #

TheNurglitch
14-06-2005, 13:53
1. Where from? I guess WarpPaw posted it for us in the old forum.

2. Nice summary but quite longish :]

3. Grey Seer is over-rated :D

skavenguy13
14-06-2005, 15:47
@Nurgy: When you were absent, I took the responsability to post the new seats lists. Check a page or two back in this thread.

Warlord:
Even though the warlord is a combat hero, his stats aren't that good. He can fight against most heroes, but will be destroyed by most lords. As with most of my rats, I use him as a psychological fighter: Oh no, he's got a lord in that unit so it'll beat my hero's unit easily :eek: . The other uses I have for him is LD provider (obviously) and unit leader. Recently, I realized that having a single character, even a hero, in a big clanrat unit can make a huge difference. Give a good killing equipment to your character and... you have at least number, maybe more ranks, you did some wounds but the enemy ha almost no replies so he didn't get any wound. This means you'll often win CR with +2/+3 when charging with a cheap character. The warlord is very good for this function because he can have (magic pointwise) both offensive AND defensive equipment. However, a chieftain with great weapon would often be enough.

There are many ways to equip the warlord. I often equip my characters to work together.
A good combo I developped is: warlord + WE + WE equipped as follow:
warlord: bands of power, warpstone amulet and some other equipment you like. Here, you don't need strength-boosting swords because the bands will often work (with the help of the engineers).
WE #1: storm daemon and dispel scroll, full magic gear.
WE #2: I really like the warpscroll, but give him the itmes you like. Full magic gear.

In my club, you lose points when you have 4 characters or over 4 magic levels. If you don't have these restrictions, a chieftain could be useful. With this, you get an all-around army that's not :cheese: at all.

Here are some combos I like with the warlord (note that the bands work better if you have at least 2 engineers):
warpstone amulet, bands of power, languisher sword, heavy armor, shield

desolae blade, warpstone armor, warpstone amulet, shield

enchanted shield, warpstone amulet, bands of power

Grey seer:

Because he costs a lot of points and my club's restrictions, I rarely use him. Unfortunately, he really can't be alone, he MUST have some WE for support. The spells he can get are deadly indeed, but you might have some problems casting it where you want: you cannot screen his unit because then you wouldn't be able to cast most spells. If the enemy has a decent shhoting force, he will obviously try to make his unit panic. With a maximum of LD9 (and dropping as the game goes on) it won't be easy to continue forward.

On the other hand, you could let him outside of units. The problem with that is he is very vulnerable to enemy magic, skirmishers, war machines and terror. Also, something I often see with lone mages is they will be subject to panic tests often: you have to put them close to your troops because you must be in range and be 5" near a unit for protection. Often, the opponent will shoot the nearby unit, which has good chances to panic due to low LD. Then, the lone mage gets a panic test for fleeing units nearby, with his own LD (6).

You must be extremely careful where you put the grey seer or he could die/flee quickly. Another thing I don't like about him is the cost. IMO, he is too costy for a 2000 points army. It's putting lots of eggs in the same basket and it really isn't a good idea with skaven.

I really recommend using the warlord instead: costs less points, may be "unit leader" and has more LD. With the point differnce, I like to use 2 WE, which can be almost as deadly as the seer. The only spells really worth it IMO are warp-lightning and plague. In larger games, skitterleap and death frenzy can be quite useful too.

A trick I found with the seer: get the skitterleap spell and a plague priest with bands of power and 2 hand weapons. The trick is to teleport him as soon as you can besides a monster/lone character. Next turn, you charge the monster with 5 WS5 S8 attacks and T5. This can be extremely useful against the casket of souls, black coach and big mounts (pegasus, manticore) or even chariots.

TheNurglitch
15-06-2005, 15:36
You forgot to mention the fact the the Band of Power have to "go off" with power level 3 :P -> they will 99% get dispelled and no s8, no monster killing :P
/Sorry for being harsh but Bands of Power have always let me down! ALWAYS!

Warlord Gnashgrod
15-06-2005, 15:55
Also, the Bands of power doesn't count as a magical attack, and is thus useless against those things that can only be hurt by magic attacks. Give me a magic weapon any day. They always work!

BTW, no one has commented on my models, a link to which I put here near the top of page 17. Does the link work? What do you all think of my models? I would like a LITTLE feedback. Otherwise I wouldn't have put the link here at all.... ;)

May The Great Horned Rat be with you.

skavenguy13
15-06-2005, 18:41
Well, I can't see the pics and I assume most of the others can't, we'd have to join the group.

Warlord Gnashgrod
15-06-2005, 19:09
Ahh, I see. I didn't realize that would be the case, although I was afraid that might happen. My apologies.

TheNurglitch
15-06-2005, 21:29
Either post them at www.coolminiornot.com and send us links

or

why don`t you send them by email? My mail - zorgg@poczta.onet.pl

When I get them/the link I will tell you what I think.

Geetarman
15-06-2005, 22:16
Gnasher - like Nurgy said post em on cool mini or not or chuck them to him or me (petecopper@hotmail.com) and I will post up links to some free webspace I have on blueyonder :)

Gman

Warlord Gnashgrod
16-06-2005, 16:31
I sent emails of my pictures to both of you, TheNurglitch and Geetarman. I sent them through 2 emails as the files are rather large. Thanks for giving me your emails and letting me send them to you directly.

TheNurglitch
16-06-2005, 17:15
Thanks for the pictures!

I think I like Grey Seer the most, the black lines (papilar?) look really interesting.
I see you are an "old edition screaming bell fan" :]

My images:
http://www.coolminiornot.com/browse/submitter/zorgg

Warlord Gnashgrod
16-06-2005, 19:01
Yes I'm a fan of the old bell. Its also easier and cheaper to convert it than to buy/paint up the new one.

As for the black lines, I'm not that good at shading/blending. I need to practice it, but it seems I get so little time to paint as it is lately.

This Saturday I'm going to a 40K RTT. 2000pts. I'm taking my converted themed Tau army. If you're interested, I'd be willing to send some pics of it as well. Anyway, wish me luck at the RTT!

Warppaw
16-06-2005, 23:30
The Lord document is part of the former BotR. We got as far as core units before it ground to a halt. I have the hero section of it lying around somewhere. I'll see if I can post it later.
Now let’s keep the ball rolling. I'll start writing a summary this weekend, so hurry up with your reviews of the warlord and grey seer.

Nurgy; That Durgin Redmane model is bloody amazing!

Warlord Gnashgrod; I would like to see some pictures of your Tau. Thanks!

It's true what they say; you never know what you have until you move. But I got a bit of a nasty shock when I found out that I have two cubic feet of bits and unpainted models :eek: . Sooooo I don't think I'll be buying any new models for a while. I've got a LOT of painting to do.

TheNurglitch
18-06-2005, 12:58
Heh, that`s because I didn`t paint him :]

I bought him with an entire unit of PRO painted hammerers. Unfortunately I had to sell them some time ago. Pity.

Now, Imagine I have to paint 1,5k Warmaster High Elves. Torment ;(

Warppaw
18-06-2005, 15:51
First, sit down and write down a review on the Warlord and Grey Seer.
I'm warning you mister! No cookies if you don't do your homework!

Geetarman
19-06-2005, 19:40
greets all, just a quick post to apologise for not being on the boards much, have been spending this weekend re-doing my bathroom (not clever considering the weather is the hottest in the UK this year so far, 32 degree's!!!) will try and get gnashgrods picks loaded up tomoz as my server peeps currently have problems..

Gman

Taishar
22-06-2005, 08:45
Zug Zug.

My standard setup in 2k is:
Engineer: all stuff -pistol, dispel scroll, storm demon
Engineer: all stuff -pistol, 2x dispel scroll
Chieftan: BSB, Warpstone Amulet, Sword of Might
General: Weeping Blade (challenge for overkill!), Enchanted Shield

Gray Seer hasn't worked well for me whenever I've brought him, plus I'm not really a big magic guy. I bring 3 scrolls even thou the majority of the time I'm fine with 2, it's just that magic is one of the harder things in the game to control.

On purely tactical grounds, there isn't a single reason I can think of why you wouldn't maximize the number of heroes you have - a chieftan with GW and heavy armor is quite cheap, and effective. Last edition, when heroes were limited by percentage of total rather then number I designed an O&G list with an entire unit of goblin heroes - something like 30 points a model, quite obscene.

Mordheim goes well, thou I'll likely restart as I'm crushing a little hard. I'm close to getting a rat ogre, my henchmen groups are pretty ownage, all armed with clubs & swords, and some of my heroes are fairly sick. My assassin went for shooting, and he has the nicest luck with injury rolls - knife to the eye does it every time =D.


Cheers

Warlord Gnashgrod
24-06-2005, 15:39
Greetings-greetings, all.

The 40K tourney went pretty well. I got 7th place overall out of 17. It was 4 games, I won 3 and lost 1, which is very good, IMO. Particularly when you consider that my Tau army was not designed to be truly competitive, but instead was 'specially themed'. Also, all 4 games were against Codex Marine armies, which are VERY hard to beat with all their new rules.

On July 16, I plan to go to a Fantasy RTT. 2000pts, 4 games. Here is the army list I plan to take:

Warlord: Weeping Blade, Foul Pendant, Enchanted Shield, heavy armor.

BSB: Storm Banner

2xWarlorck Engineers: all upgrades except the pistol, 2 Dispell scrolls each.

3xUnits of clanrats: 2 are 34 strong, 1 is 35. All have light armor, shield & hand weapons. 2 have full command, one doesnt have the standard(it's where my BSB goes). 2 of them have Ratling gun attatchments.

3xUnit of 20 Skavenslaves: hand weapons. One also has a musician.

Unit of 18 giant rats + 3 packmasters.

3x Unit of 4 globadiers.

Unit of 4 Rat swarms

2x unit of 5 gutter runners. Both have poisoned hand weapons. One also has poisoned throwing stars and are scouts. The other are tunnelers.

So what do you think? Any suggestions/commments will be very welcome.

May The Great Horned Rat be with you and bless all your dice rolls.

Warlord Gnashgrod
24-06-2005, 19:42
BTW, Taishar, congrats on how well your Mordheim campaign is going. My gaming group is planning on doing a themed Lustrian campaign somewhere in the near future. But for once I plan not to use my Skaven, not even as a Pestilens list. I'm going to use a Vampire list, themed after the Necrarchs. Wish me luck.

Warppaw
24-06-2005, 21:11
Your list looks fine Gnashrod.
But can someone answer me this;
Why does no one use the warplock pistol, and what is it about a full command that is so obcesive?
The warplock pistol costs ten points for Gmans sake! One succesfull stand and shot charge reaction and you've probably made your points back. I love these things, and have used them to kill everything from knights to free range characters. And even if you never get a chance to fire, the strenght five attack in cc is usually worth the points.
Unit champions on the other hand...... Ten points for an extra attack and the ability to challenge. Skaven are in a rather special position with challenges, as our Lead from the back rule allows the unit to use the characters leadership even in he refuses the challenge. So you only have to accept a challenge if your character is tooled up, and likely to win the challenge. Ok, I'll accept one in the unit you place your warlord in, and in PM and SV units, as they need the champion. But other than that, they're a waste of points! In a skaven army, even those ten points are important. 20 points buys you 4 clanrats or nightrunner, or 2 PWGs.

And I know that I promised to finish the entries last weekend. I'm working on them, I promise.

skavenguy13
24-06-2005, 22:31
I'd swap a scroll for the storm deamon. It can be very useful to get rid of lone mages/shooters/machines. I often try to get rid of a mage or 2 quickly with my warp-lightnings so I have less to worry about his magic:D Also, remember: a 1-strong unit is enough to make the mage panic as he usually has low LD. If the mage is hidden, just zap a nearby unit:D

I think you can drop a couple clanrats there. I never played with more than 25 and most of the time I lose a maximum of 1 rank, 2 if I'm fighting stubborn/unbreakable unit. With those points you could give the engineers pistols or more musicians to the slaves. The rest seems very nice. Good luck.

Taishar
25-06-2005, 02:28
Zug Zug.

The vast majority of the time I see no need for more then 30 clanrats. 25 is enough most of the time. I'd try and scrape together enough for another giant rat unit.


Cheers

Warlord Gnashgrod
25-06-2005, 06:29
Think of the large unit sizes as extra protection from shooting, both the enemy's and my own ;) As for the war[lock pistol, I don't use it because 10pts = 2 clanrats. Also, it only has 10in range, and my Warlocks, who are 9 times out of 10 on their own and not in units, usually run around to get into good positions to cast magic. You can cast magic if you ran, but you can't shoot. I also like to keep the Warlock's more than 10in away from the enemy, so that my units running from hth wont panic them, so they won't likely be charged by the enemy, etc etc.

I could take the storm daemon too, I suppose. but I prefer the max magic protection. As I've said many times before, I prefer the sure thing of a dispel scroll to the possible dispell of using the dice. Why play the odds if you don't have to? Also, the storm daemon only casts the D6 version of the spell. If you roll a 1, nothing happens to the enemy. It's harder to roll 2 ones with the 2D6 reg spell than it is to roll a single one. If I got the chance to play a lot more than I currently do, I would try the storm daemon, but sadly, I don't get to play Fantasy as often as I'd like. So I like to use what I'm pretty sure will work. And I just don't get the chance to really practice, either. So I prefer to use what I know. It'll give me a better chance.

Artemis_Quinn
25-06-2005, 17:20
Well, overall, I like the list.

But as mentioned before I think unit sizes could turn out to be an issue. 30 is about tops for my army, and 25 is stable. I've never needed any more than that in my experience, though unfortunately, I don't get much of that anymore :( (I feel your pain)

Also, I would use some of those points (even bringing your clanrat units down to 30) to bring the slaves units up to 30. They always seem to attract a lot of fire when they're a big unit for some reason (even though I do mention to my opponent that they ARE shooting at a worthless unit.)

As for the poison wind Globadiers and the Storm banner tell me how they work out for you, I've never had any luck with then myself, but perhaps you could provide some insight.


About Warppaw's comments.......

Reason I don't use warplock pistol myself....
Basically it adds that extra chance of killing myself, and warp-lightning is more than enough of that for me...... Not to mention I want my character to be outside of combat rather than right in the thick of it dealing oober mage damage (considering the fact that typical mages aren't work a gnoblar's spit in combat).
Even though 10 pnts is affordable, it's also 10 pnts that can be used elsewhere.

The full command comment......
Well, personally, I don't take commands at all. It's the same price as 5 clanrats and generally, those five clanrats give me the outnumbering that takes care of the loss of the standard. Also, the way I figure it if I'm gonna lose combat, which (even though clanrats are a deal when put next to spearmen stat wise) is destned to happen, I'm not giving up the extra 100 victory points. So, just in that I end-up being closer to at least a draw by the end of the battle. Plus, champions are just something you don't want challenged, if you accept then you're likely facing overkill, and if you don't then you lose his attacks and your unit still takes the damage. Just seems a moot point. As for musicians, I generally tend to forget that they help me rally anyways, not to mention that usually a combat, in my experience, ends-up one sided, so, for the price of a clanrat, they rarely do anything for me.

My question is, why are people so compelled to take a lord choice just because it's open to them at 2000 points? I am currently working with a plague priest as my general, with weeping blades (can't beat challenging characters and doing so much in overkill it doesn't matter how good or bad your unit does). He bolsters Ld to 9 like the gray seer and has combat potential like the warlord, but he's T5, rather than 4. And once he gets in combat he's a beast anyways. Sure he doesn't have cool magic like the grey seer, and sure he doesn't bolster Ld as much as the warlord nor does he have his save, but he's cheaper and wheras he might be a wee bit unpredictable, against a crafty foe, this can be overcome with clever skirmisher use...... just a thought.

Warlord Gnashgrod
25-06-2005, 19:04
The Storm Banner and the Globes have worked pretty good for me so far. One thing you got to remember about this Storm Banner/shooty weapons combo: Almost all Skaven shooting is short-ranged, so it'll usually take a turn or 2 at least before you can shoot. Also, Skaven can shoot into hth. No other army can do that. And you can't expect the banner to last the whole game. It did once for me against a Dwarf army. But that was the only time. The banner's main purpose is to minimize casualties from enemy shooting before you reach hth. After that, the only shooting casualties will be your own doing ;) It also helps out against armies with a lot of flyers. It minimizes their effectiveness. Personally, I find the Storm Banner to be the mandatory choice for army banner for tournements.

skavenguy13
26-06-2005, 01:13
I don't like using magic banners because they take a hero slot and the character must avoid combat at all costs or you lose the banner. I tend more to use a BSB with something like foul pendant/warpstone amulet and sword of might/bands of power. He looks like he's gonna get defeated easily but the opponent soon realizes it's the opposite. With that combo, he's your normal tooled up chieftain, plus a special effect (banner).

I see what your plan is with the huge clanrat units and I admit it's well thought... I still think you could drop to 30 though.

As for commands, I always take musicians no matter what. I like fleeing and for some reason I'm good at rolling just enough for my rally tests. I only take champions in clanrats units. I learned they are useful when:
The unit is very strong
He costs like 4 points (like gnoblars)
You have a character in the unit

I normally only give them to clanrats because it's where I put my characters. I also use one iin stormvermin when I take them.

As for the banner, I think every unit that at least has a chance of winning should have one. Like in Gnashgrod's list, a unit of less than 25 wouldn't deserve one: they're more of a sacrifice unit. Also, I think every unit that can take a magical banner should at least have the banner (not necessarily magical). If your opponent knows they can have one, he'll probably think you have one, either cheap or very strong. I like psychology with my skavens...messing with the opponent's head. That's another reason why I use these BSB combos: he will only find out it's a fighting machine when he'll get in HTH. He probably thinks you have a war banner or swarm banner (even umbranner).

Disposable Hero
27-06-2005, 21:45
Hey guys, another Skaven player signing in!

Great to see the Council survived!

Warppaw
28-06-2005, 22:25
Nearly two weeks after I promised it, but...
This is mearly the first draft. Give me your comments, and I'll edit it before making it final.
Edit; Warseer won't upload it. I'll try again tomorrow.
Is there any chance that you might be able to host it somewhere Gman?

My workstation looks like something out of Throts wildest dreams. 85 slaves and clanrats lying around in pieces..... Why didn't I stick with Darkelves :cries:

Edit 2; I forgot the option of simply posting it;

Choose your lord:

Which of the Lords you choose to lead your army is a decision you should put some thought into, as it affects the composition of the rest of your force.
At first glance, the Grey Seer is a bit more expensive than the Warlord, and will reduce the number of models in the army. In addition, the Warlord has a better leadership, and will make a better leader than the Grey Seer. This makes the Warlord a better choice for the horde armies. While on the other hand, the Grey Seer gives you access to the deadly Skaven magic.
Upon consideration, we find that it’s this magic that plays a big part of deciding how we’ll shape the rest of the force. While the warlord depends on reaching the enemy to do any mayor damage, the Grey Seer depends on keeping his distance, where he can use his magic to ultimate effect. Though the “Life is Cheap” rule allows you to get close and personal even with the Grey Seer, the Warlord is generally a better leader of an offensive army, if nothing else because the points saved can get you three rat ogres, 18 plague monks with additional hand weapons, or 24 Clanrats with full command.
When you then going to choose your hero characters, the Warlock Engineer is an unavoidable choice, whatever lord you use. If going with a Seer, you’ll need at least one to make sure some of that expensive magic goes off. While with a Warlord, you’ll need one or two for magic defence, or two too three tooled up Engineers for those devastating warplightning spells.
The rest of your hero, and troop choices depends on your personal preferences, and well, what models you have available.

Warlord:

Compared with other races, the skaven Warlord isn’t much to brag about. Most tooled up Chaos, Vampire, Ork, Dwarf, Old blood, heck, even elven lords stands a fair chance at serving him his own liver on a platter. So why even bother taking a Warlord over say a Chieftain? Simple. Leadership 7.
The Warlord will give any unit with three ranks and within 12” of him leadership 10. That extra point of leadership means that there’s only a 16.7% chance of failing a leadership test. And for 90 points, it’s one of, if not the cheapest ways to get leadership 10 around,
There are basically two ways to equip and use your Warlord. Kitted out with heavy armour and a great weapon, a halberd, and a ward save if you think it’s necessary, he does a great job as a “pure general”. Place him so that the majority of your army can benefit from leadership 10, and move him to the back of his unit as soon as anything more dangerous that a rank-and-file trooper approaches.
The other option is to kit him out with magical goodies and stuff him down the throat of any enemy characters or troops within reach. This is a fairly popular option, but keep in mind that certain Lords will still be able to tear him to shreds. The real advantage is that he can still give most of the army the benefit of ld 10, while being able to pack a punch in combat.

Grey Seer

A Grey Seer is the best magic user available to a skaven army, and has access to the skaven lore, which is among the most damaging in the game to date. Unfortunately, the High Ranking rule means that in games of less than 3000 points, the Seer has to be the army general. A Grey Seer therefore represent a minimum of 335 victory points to your opponent. The fact that he has the fighting ability of a clanrat means that the first rule of using a Seer is to keep him out of combat. The screaming bell is a great asset in larger games, with its two extra dispel dice, the bell’s effect, and by giving the Seer unhindered line of sight while keeping him out of combat.
The Grey Seer is a considerable investment in a skaven army. If you choose to use one, he should be backed up by at least one warlock engineer, and some sort of magical equipment. In addition, the fragile Seer should be given some sort of magical protection. The Warpstone amulet should generally be avoided, as the 4+ ward save is not worth the chance of losing your expensive Seer at the end of the battle.
Make sure you are able to use the Seers abilities to the fullest. Concentrating your magic on one target at the time will help with this. Don’t forget the four free Warpstone tokens the Seer starts with. The possibility of a wound aside, this is basically two free powerstones, which should give you an advantage over your opponent. Use them to burn his dispellscrolls, or to deliver the killing blow when the opportunity arises.

TheNurglitch
29-06-2005, 19:49
Good piece of tactics WarpPaw, as always you rock :)

As always I shall save it on my disk :D

Taishar
01-07-2005, 07:05
Zug Zug.

So I played an almost army worth of skaven in Mordheim (not for actual play - for a campaign scenario thing), was pretty cool. I was attacking a town, with 5 warbands on top of the walls (I could use grappling hooks, there were 2 small doors [50mm] that I could break in, 1 large door [100mm or so] and could climb normally). I had about the same number of models (because it was based on my previous warband, so was more experienced then others), 3 rat ogres, 6 heroes, bout 55 henchmen.

Was pretty interesting, their shooting was pretty hot, lost like 8 in 2 turns. I got some awesome luck first turns of combat, after the first round of combat they were taking rout checks (on a 9). After a couple turns of combat, they forced me to take rout checks (i auto passed first one with unholy relic), and they kept passing all of theirs, so it was essentially impossible for me to win till they failed one. Testing on a 7, I failed 2nd turn i had to check. All in all, I'm pretty happy, because it was pretty balanced (the scenario was my idea), it was a pretty close game (they passed 3 LD9 checks, not super unlikely but 'eh'), and it's not like it was a normal type game. Worked out pretty cool, I think I played pretty well ^^, the dwarf warband lost no members because like none of them got in combat, lol.

Going to start DMing a Warhammer D&D campaign (D&D rules, just with warhammer flavor, if you're curious I put the races, class, prc stuff at http://warhammerdnd.tripod.com/ ) in a few weeks. Should be interesting, the first 'adventure' is skaven main villian, with them attempting to take over a town on the fringe of the empire, with a cleric/grey seer leader, and all the different clans present (and mutated rat ogres! [gogo templates]).


Cheers

Warppaw
04-07-2005, 20:35
So, lets keep going. Comments on the Lord review, and hero-writeups are greatly appreciated.

How do you feel about filling out ranks?
This technique of saving cash is extencivly used in undead armies. Could the same technique be used in slave units? I'm putting together three units of twenty slaves, and it hit me that I could easily stretch 15 models to cover the same space as twenty. By adding bog and swamp scenery, and various bits from my bitsbox, I think I could make it look good too. (Using 40x40 bases with only three slaves on them, a swamp with a skaven skeleton lying it it, a slave using a stick to drown another slave, and one with several of the plastic rats swimming across it. And, since I'm still working on a clanrat regiment, I can tie the swamp scenery in with the rest of the army.)
Would you accept it as a units of twenty slaves with only 15 actual models in the unit? And more importantly, would there be any problems with it at tournaments?

Warlord Gnashgrod
06-07-2005, 07:21
Greetings-greetings, all.

I think any way that you can save money is a good idea, as long as you can get it to work. Your idea to fill out ranks for Skavenslaves sounds like it works quite well to me, WarpPaw. I admire your initiative and ingenuity. Keep up the good work.

Now onto starting the 'heros' section of our tactica.

The Chieftain. A very nice choice for a basic hero level Skaven character. He is releatively cheap, he has access to all the basic equipment(at least that which doesn't cost over 50pts), has the 2nd best Ld for Skaven in the game with LD 9, and has some ability in hth. A fairly good choice to lead an army of less than 2000pts. Downside; possibly a bit weaker than some other army's hero-lvl characters. and I'm sure there are a few other probs with him. Can anyone else provide more info?

May The Great Horned Rat be with you and bless all your dice rolls.

Geetarman
07-07-2005, 20:05
Looks good nurgy I aint got no complaints :)

I shall start workin on the hero reviews asap.

On the bulking out of units I think its a really good idea if you want to be creative, slave units rarely drop very far before being wiped out or fleeing so you dont have to worry about models being individually removed for the most part :) I always thought that putting some beastmasters at the back seemingly driving them forward would look cool :)

And whats happening to the council?!!? No-one seems ta be postin! :(

Gman

Kerill
09-07-2005, 07:34
I'd like to jion the council (or as a champion) Hey its my fist post come on (used to have a great rank in portent but alas...).

How can I assassinate someone? How about if someone challenges someone else by writing a tactica post if the other member cannot respond wioth a better tactics post (as decided by the 13 council members) they lose their position?

Warlord Gnashgrod
09-07-2005, 14:57
Greetings-greetings, all.

Kerill: It's nice to see that someone one is interested in joining the Council The first 'step' is to answer some Skaven Fluff Trivia Questions through a PM. The questions will be posted here.

You can find the full complete rules for the Skaven Council of 13 on page 3 of this thread. It's in an attatchment attatched to post #22 by Skavenguy13.

Warlord Gnashgrod
10-07-2005, 18:06
Greetings-greetings, all.

To continue the special Skaven tactica: Heros;

Plague Priest: Probably the best hero available to the Skaven, with his natural toughness of 5, frenzy, decent LD(for Skaven, anyway) and being relatively cheap. Kit him out right and he can be a monster in hth combat. I personally like giving him a Plague censor, as it counts as a magic weapon, but doesn't take up any 50pts available for magic gear. A definite loophole, to be sure. Then I give him a ward save as well. I also like the warpstone charm, for the bonus reroll. Another idea might be to give him the Bands of Power. A good item for him, indeed.

Disadvantages: Cannot wear armor, even magical armor. Which makes it hard to give him decent protection. While frenzy can be nice, it also makes the character rather uncontrollable, as he will HAVE to charge if he's within range. Even if you don't think he is, you then must measure to see if he is within range, and if he is, he must charge. This is bad because then he'll be charging all on his own. And no Skaven character should be all on his own in hth combat. EVER.

Hope you all find this info usefull.

May The Great Horned Rat be with you and bless all your dice rolls.

Taishar
10-07-2005, 19:04
Zug Zug.

"Plague Priest: Probably the best hero available to the Skaven, with his natural toughness of 5, frenzy, decent LD(for Skaven, anyway) and being relatively cheap. Kit him out right and he can be a monster in hth combat. I personally like giving him a Plague censor, as it counts as a magic weapon, but doesn't take up any 50pts available for magic gear. A definite loophole, to be sure. Then I give him a ward save as well. I also like the warpstone charm, for the bonus reroll. Another idea might be to give him the Bands of Power. A good item for him, indeed."

Just to note - if you give him a plague censor and put him in a unit when he gets in combat your troops have to test. If you're fond of putting him in the middle of the unit its 5 tests every phase (or slightly under 1 guy dead a round, if it's plague monks).


Cheers

Warlord Gnashgrod
10-07-2005, 21:50
[Just to note - if you give him a plague censor and put him in a unit when he gets in combat your troops have to test. If you're fond of putting him in the middle of the unit its 5 tests every phase (or slightly under 1 guy dead a round, if it's plague monks).

yes, I know. I guess I should've mentioned that. But when you consider that Skaven regularly shoot into hand to hand combat, the loss of a few clanrats due to the censer doesn't really mean too much, now does it? As a true Skaven, I see such losses as 'inconsequential'. Remember, "life is cheap." ;) :D :evilgrin:

Oh, and the Plague Priest does have to test for the censer himself as well. So using it is a risk, but so is using regular Censer Bearers, and lots of players still think they're really good. I myself do not.

Taishar
11-07-2005, 07:25
Zug Zug.

When Hatred gave you unmodified leadership 10 they owned =P.


Cheers

Geetarman
11-07-2005, 15:18
A little off topic I know but I played a small 1K game vs wood elves the other day and thought I would post my obsevations on them when playing skaven.

1) Dont go near the woods! We had 3 woods on the table, 2 of them formed a it of a bottleneck in the middle of the table (wood elves can place 1 free 6" wood in their half of the board). They have a spell which enables them to either move a wood D3+2 inches OR hit every unit partially in the wood with D6 ST5 hits!!! Needless to say my skirmished night runners went sent packing, luckily nothing else suffered due to my terror of entering the forestry but that didnt stop him whipping the damn trees all over the place an getting in my LOS.

2) Keep an eye on their cavalry! This is fairly accurate for all armies but fast cavalry are a pain in the backside! They can move 19", reforming as much as they like, and can fire when they march! They spent all game running in circles around some of my rat ogres and were only finally seen off by a charge from my chieftain and some tunnel runners.

3) Keep them at range, or close quickly! Needless to say all elves are ******* lethal with bows, they dont suffer some to hit penalties (only long range and skirmishers) and can fire one hell of a range. Plus at short range their bows become st4! Combined with their way watchers bows (which gain killing blow at close range!) they can make pin cushions out of us ratties.

4) Use ranks vs their dryads. With 2 attacks ST WS 4 and a 5+ ward save they are pretty tough, but as they are skirmishers they dont get any ranks, so take the charge with clanrats, form a shield wall and bulk up the ranks with a warbanner and you should send them packing!

5) Hide at the back! One of their magic items allows woodelf characters to target anyone they want, characters in units, weapon teams hiding by parent units, in short if its visible its game, so hide your characters!

6) Magic is good-good! With nearly no armour and a max toughness of 3 for the basic elves warplightening will fry them quick-quick!

7) No snipers. Don't bother taking jezzails. If your opponents is worth his salt as a wood elf general he will take some waywatchers, and these guys can deploy within 12" and in your own deployment zone as long as they are outside of LOS. I ended up with 6 behind a hill that was behind my stormvermin and rat ogres and they couldn't march for half the game. If jezzails had been around they woulda died miserably.

8) Weapon teams to the fore. Due to the number of skirmishers and light infantry either weapon team will be effective (hell when aren't they!).

9) Take plenty skirmishers. Fight fire with fire (or would that be earth with earth?) take plenty of night runners and night runners and globadiers as their skirmishing ability will make them flexible enough to deal with the wood elf arm speed and mobility whilst making them a little harder to hit.

Thats about it for now, will post more when I remember the thrashing I received more...

Gman

Warlord Gnashgrod
11-07-2005, 19:17
Zug Zug.

When Hatred gave you unmodified leadership 10 they owned =P.
I agree completely, Taishar. I always used them in my armies back then. but now, the nerfed them badly. they're just not a viable choice anymore, IMO. Not if your main goal is a very good, competitive force. They're a waste of points. They're hard to use well, as Frenzy makes them essentially uncontrollable. They lowered their stats, and raised their costs. This always bugged me. I can understand either upping their points cost, or lowering their stats, but both???

Well, rant over. ;)

Warlord Gnashgrod
12-07-2005, 06:47
Greetings-greetings, all

Geetarman: As you played against the new Wood Elves, maybe you can answer these 2 questions for me: Are Wood Elves still affected by The Storm Banner, or do they have a way around it? Also, are Treeman still Toughness 6? Thanks for the info.

Back onto the Tactica for heros:

Warlock Engineer: Perhaps the very best lvl 1 or 2 wizard in the whole Fantasy game, as you don't have to worry about getting a bad spell. It is automatic: Warp Lightning. That being said, the spell can be self-destructive to the WE, but that's just 'Skavenish'. The Warlock Engineer needs to have all the upgrades except the Pistol to cast magic well, though. A possible downside. If you give him the pistol as well, the Warlock Engineer actually wouldn't be that bad in hth, for a lower-lvl wizard(2 attacks at S4 that count as magic, not bad for a lower lvl wizard that isn't either Chaos or Undead/Vampire). I personnally give my WE 2 dispell scrolls so that he be excellent both at offensive and defensive in regards to magic. But the WE has several other good options as well for magic items. Dispell Scrolls are just my personal preference.

As for casting the magic spell Warp Lightning, you can either cast it at lower lvl(1D6 S5 hits), or higher lvl(2D6 S5 hits). I always choose the higher lvl, as there's less of a chance of rolling 2 ones instead of 1 one on a single dice. If you roll a one, you hurt the WE, and if you only did the lower lvl version and rolled a one, the whole spell is wasted. Personally, I wish a roll of a one would mean BOTH the target and the WE get hit by one S5 hit, but that's just me, and of course, it's not going to be changed to that. Anyway, to reiterate, by doing the higer lvl spell, there's less of a chance that the whole spell is wasted by only hitting the WE. And you also can possibly kill more of the enemy with more hits. So why WOULD you cast the lower lvl? Yes it's easier, but killing more enemy is always better. Andy you can roll up to 3 dice. Odds are you'll succeed.

One other nice thing about Skaven magic. A natural roll that adds up to 13 is always at Irristible Force. If you always roll 3 dice for your casting(I do) the odds of getting a natural 13 is a bit higher than getting double 6's(boxcars), which is IF for everyone else. With this extra rule, Skaven WE's are very good indeed. Although I'll admit they can be expensive.

Geetarman
12-07-2005, 09:19
Greetings-greetings, all

Geetarman: As you played against the new Wood Elves, maybe you can answer these 2 questions for me: Are Wood Elves still affected by The Storm Banner, or do they have a way around it? Also, are Treeman still Toughness 6? Thanks for the info.

Not sure how much I can divulge due to IP stuff due to woodelves not being out yet so mods feel free to remoev/edit this as you see fit :)

As far as I can see the woodies do not have a way round the stormbanner effects (which will make it almost a no-brainer vs them in big games!).

As for treemen I didn't face one as it was a small game but I understand they are even tougher than they used to be (so could even be toughness 7!) but are much rarer (there is a new kind of mini treeman called treekin or something like that which fill the role of something akin to ogres etc...).

Hope that helps

THE HORNED ONE

Gman

Warppaw
12-07-2005, 22:25
Now, we all know that one of the problems with a skaven army is the cost. Well, what would you say if I told you that I've figured out a way to get a 1500 points army with around 200 models for 165 quid. Is this at all interesting, or is this another one of those "We already knew that, shut up you nutter!" situations?

And get working on those reviews!

Geetarman
13-07-2005, 09:04
Now, we all know that one of the problems with a skaven army is the cost. Well, what would you say if I told you that I've figured out a way to get a 1500 points army with around 200 models for 165 quid. Is this at all interesting, or is this another one of those "We already knew that, shut up you nutter!" situations?

And get working on those reviews!

Go on, I'm listening :D

Gman

Warlord Gnashgrod
13-07-2005, 18:46
Yes, I myself am curious as well, WarpPaw.

Warppaw
13-07-2005, 19:08
Right then, a digital camera will be purchased, and an article written. I might add a detailed description later, but right now I'm experiencing a little trouble with my connection. Now, if you will excuse me, I have a lot of slaves to finish.

Edit;

Ok, I was amased earlier, but now I'm a little scared. I crunched the numbers again, and to say it carefully, my estimate of 1500 points was a little pesimistic.

Purchase list:
3 Battalion sets
1 Empire detashment box.
Total 165 pounds.

Clanrats and slaves.
Now then, seperate the clanrat models into three groups of 25, and three groups of 15. The groups of 25 are clanrats, while the groups of 15 are slaves. You can either stretch the slaves to units of twenty, or convert 15 of the empire models as captured slaves.

Rat Ogres and Plague Monks.
The six Rat Ogres and twenty of the plague monks are assembled as normal. The size of the plague monk units can be increased up to a total of thirthy if you don't want PWGs.

Jezzails.
Use sixteen of the plague monks, and the rifles from the detachment set to convert 8 Jezzail teams. Swap the shooters hands with the ones from the empire riflemen, and bend and position the arms. This is one of the most complicated conversions involved.

Rat Swarms and Giant Rats.
There are a total of 32 plastic rats in the battalion set. So, we end up with 96 of the little buggers. Pick out bthe 25 smallest, and stick them on five 40x40 bases. make sure that all the tails aren't pointing in the same direction, and you have your Rat Swarms. Now, pick out the 54 largest, and divide them into three units of 18. These will be your Giant Rats. Take six of the extra plague monks, and equip them with the whatever you think looks right for a packmaster. You might want to spread these six among the "real" ones, to avoid attention.

Plague Censor Bearers.
This one is relativly easy. Use eight plague monks, and the censors from the plague monk sprue, and that's basically it.

PWGs.
Now that I think about it, this one is also a little complicated. The general idea is to use green stuff to add globes where ever you can on six of the remaining plague monk models. Modelling the globes in nets will probably make it a little easier. To be honest, I'll have to find out how to tackle this one when I get there, but I know that it can be done. If you used 30 plague monks, you won't have enough left for PWGs anyways.

This leaves us with four plaguemonk models, which could probably be converted into a plague priest, a master moulder, and probably a Grey Seer.
I'll admit that unless you put a lot of work into it, the army will probaly end up looking a little tacky, but lets take a look at what your 165 pounds have bough you;

75 clanrats
60 slaves
20 plague monks
9 giant rat packs
6 rat ogres
5 rat swarms
8 jezzails
8 plague censor bearers
6 PWGs

If we assume that the clanrats and plague monks have commands, and two hand weapons for the plague monks, we get a total of 1918 points, and 257 models. How's that for saving money? And the best part, is that you now have nearly every unit choice available in the skaven army. A couple of night runner boxes and convert some of them into gutter runners, add a warplightning cannon, and all you're missing are Storm Vermin. Luckily, Storm Vermin are one of the most common conversions around. Buy another box of clanrats while you're assembeling the ones mentioned above, and form the twenty most heavily armoured ones into a SV unit.
Phfew, that was long. So, what do you think?

Muffin Man
15-07-2005, 06:13
Sounds interesting and a great deal, but like you said a lot of work/expertise so it's definitely not for everyone sadly. But if it were... then I would be real tempted to pick up Skaven.

Anyways, since you're already got an Empire detachment box, a common Empire conversion is hacking off speartops and rigging a halberd blade to the shaft, thought I'd point that out since you haven't mentioned how to arm those SV yet.

Although, looking at my conversion manual(TM), those halberd heads usually come from the Empire State Troops box, which of course an Empire player would already have, so I dunno what a Skaven player would do for the blade.

Taishar
15-07-2005, 06:58
Zug Zug.

Clanrats can't have two hand weapons.

I'm fairly sure most of us use clanrat boxes to make slaves, as opposed to the metal models.


Cheers

Warppaw
15-07-2005, 13:54
Clanrats can't have two hand weapons.

That was a typo.


I'm fairly sure most of us use clanrat boxes to make slaves, as opposed to the metal models.

I have no idea what you are talking about.

Warlord Gnashgrod
15-07-2005, 14:24
I have no idea what you are talking about.

There are metal/pewter Skaven slave models available from GW. They have been there at least since 4th edition, when I started playing the game. But such models are, of course, very expensive.

A cheaper way to do Skaven slaves is to take the least armored clanrat models(those just wearing rags/cloaks) and make them into skavenslaves. I added to this a bit by making their swords appear to be very rusty and of poor quality. Not to mention that my Skavenslaves are very easy to spot in my army. My Clanrats and other regular skaven(except for characters) are all 'vermin brown' in their fur color. My Skavenslaves have a medium gray for their fur color. The idea/fluff of my army is that Skavenslaves get their fur 'dyed' so that they are easily spotted in the warrens as Skavenslaves. Also, the color of the rags that my Skavenslaves wear is distincly different from that of any of the other Skaven. So my Skavenslaves are easily "ID'ed" from the rest of my army. Characters are a very light gray for heros and a White for Lords. It mentions this in the fluff of the 4th/5th edition Skaven army book. Skaven whose fur color is a natural white are automatically considered to be great leaders. Of course, any Skaven can become a great leader if he's cunning enough. Then he will 'dye' his fur the appropriate color if it isn't the right color already. Vice-versa if a leader goes down in the hierachy(of course, this rarely happens. Mostly it's assassination ;)).

But back to the point, using the non armored clanrat bodies is the cheapest way to make Skavenslaves.

Warppaw
15-07-2005, 15:38
Have I missed something? Wasn't that what I suggested?

feintstar
15-07-2005, 15:53
Can I post Army Lists here, oh skaven council? I am new to the Rat Kin, having just aquired a mighty force... And no one is commenting on the list I posted in the Army Lists section... Alas, will you grant me this boon?

Warlord Gnashgrod
15-07-2005, 18:55
Sorry, WarpPaw. I must've missunderstood what you meant.

Feintstar: AS long as the lists are short and sweet, I have no prob with you posting them here. I myself post my lists here.

Anyway, wish me luck. The 2000pt Fantasy RTT is tomorrow. 4 games. I will do my best to bring home many-many pieces of warpstone and lots of slaves-slaves for various uses. ;)

I'll let you all know how the tourney went on Sunday.

feintstar
16-07-2005, 10:32
Greetings Greetings oh mighty and revered council of 13! Your beneficience is held in awe and reverance. Please grant this humble servant a viewing of my clever clever Eshin list.

Master Assassin with Smoke Bombs, Warpstone Stars, Bands of Power 310

Eshin Sorceror with extra level, Dispell Scroll, warpstone chunk and Eye of the Horned Rat 140 (general)

Eshin Sorceror with extra level, Dispell scroll 115

Assassin with Brass Orb 130

7 Night Runners with extra hand weapons 49
7 Night Runners with extra hand weapons 49
25 ClanRats, full command with Ratling Gun 210
25 ClanRats, full command with Ratling Gun 210
20 Slaves with sheilds 60
20 Slaves with sheilds 60
24 Stormvermin, full command, War Banner 233
8 Jezzails 160
Eshin Triad (smoke bombs) 240

2000 points

4 dispell dice + 2 Scrolls
6 power dice + 1 bound spell

Hopefully, anyone with nasty mage things can get mage assassinated and March blocked before going up against an almost normal Skaven armylist (minus warp Lightning) with high Ld. With many Numbers to provide ranks etc while sneaky Eshin triads and stormvermin kill the nasty man-elf-dwarf things (hopefully).

Is the army Good good?

Kerill
17-07-2005, 03:19
Surely in an Eshin list the Master assassin should be your General since he has the highest leadership in the army.

Also is it just my version of the book, but I don't have an option for an assassin triad in my army list for Eshin, can anyone tell me the rules for this unit?

Greymarch
17-07-2005, 03:21
Are you referring to the Eshin list in the back of the Skaven book? Because this is from the Storm of Chaos list, which has the Triad as a Rare choice. Basically it's a unit of 3 Assassins with no magic items.

Warlord Gnashgrod
17-07-2005, 22:32
The door to the Inner Council chambers opened up, and in stepped Warlord Skarnak of Clan Skarnak, First Lieutenant of Warlord Gnashgrod, and his personal bodyguard, who were lugging a very large sack.

He walked up to the center of the room and unloaded on the floor the contents of a sack that he was carrying. "I bring you the personal trophies-trophies I captured during my recent excursions to the overworld!" He stated triumphantly. The contents proved to be the heads of important slain enemies. They included the heads of 2 High Elves; one a noble, the other an Arch-mage, a Beastman Bray-Shaman, the head of a Bone Giant Construct, and the heads of 3 Skinks.

"The rest of the spoils of war I captured, including many-many slaves, I have left outside the Great Bell Tower. With your permission, oh Lords, I will now tell-inform you of my many victories-triumphs." Skarnak said, while bowing before the Council table.

"You may begin your tale, Warlord Skarnak," a deep voice said from near the center of the great table. "We are very-very interested in what you have to say."

"Then I shall begin....."

Greetings-greetings, all. I did very well at the Tourney yesterday. Although I did not win, I came in 5th overall out of 13 players. There were many excellent players there as well, so it was a tough tourny. I'll give my full report in the following post.

Warlord Gnashgrod
17-07-2005, 23:09
As I said, the tourny went very well. It was 4 games, 2000pts.

My first game was 'gain ground'(you get +200vps for each controlled table quarter, and +1BP for each hill you control). The game was against a Beastman army, led by the special character 'Morghul The Wanderer'(he can turn models into chaos spawn with his special rules). the end result was a draw, with a VP difference of around 120pts, with myself having more points. A good game and well fought.

Game 2: It was, I think, "Duke it out". I'm not sure. The point is, there were no special rules. It was just a straight battle. I don't remember what the special thing was for bonus BPs either. The game was against a tomb king army. This game came out even closer than the first. I had more VPs again, but the difference was only somewhere around 57vps. It was my most favorite game of the tourney. We both played very well.

Game 3: This one might've been the 'Duke it out' Scenario. I do know it had no special rules either. Just kill the enemy. I remember it's special BP thing though: You needed to have a unit cross the center line of the table at some point in the game, or you would lose a BP. This game was against a rather interesting, mobile and fast, High Elf army. The only models he had on foot were his 2 wizards and and his 2 bolt throwers. The other 2 characters, basic heros, were on Eagles. He had 2 other independant eagles, 3 units of cavalry(2 were each just 5 silverhelms. no command) and 1 was 10 knights, full command. He also had 3 chariots. This game I lost, by a total of 259VPs. But it was a VERY close game. In order to secure a win, you need to have at least 201 more VPs. So he 'won' by only 59pts. This guy also ended up winning the Tournement overall, so at least I lost to the best general. ;). Another great game.

Game 4: "The Messangers". You take 3 core models from 3 different core units and they become special characters. Unbreakable with max movement of 8. You get an extra 150VPs for each messanger you get off the opponents table edges in his deployment zone. But each must go off a differnt table edge. This game was against a Lizardman army. He had a 2nd Gen Slann Mage Priest(The nastiest Slann mage of all), a lvl 1 Skink Shaman, one Saurus hero, I unit of 5 Saurus cold one riders, 4 units of Skinks, 1 unit of Chameleon Skinks, 1 unit of 4 lizzie swarms, 3 Salamanders, and a unit of 4 Kroxxies. In this game I pulled off a win. Neither of us got any messangers off the board, but I had destroyed more of his stuff than he of mine. We didn't even bother to tally up the VPs, as I had clearly won. All he had left was the Chameleon Skinks, 2 units of Skinks, All 3 characters(unhurt), and the unit of Cold one riders. I had only lost my swarms, 1 unit of globadiers, 1 or 2 slave units, my unit of giant rats, and had a wounded WE. Another great game, but part of why I won was he made 2 fatal mistakes. He forgot his magic movement banner on his cold one Saurus, and he forgot to make one or 2 other charges as well. But this is understandable as it was the last game of 4, all done in one day, which makes for a looong day indeed!

Notes of interest/amusement: I seem to have some of the bravest Skaven in the known world! Although I didn't make EVERY LD 5 or 7 test I was required to make to rally running units of skirmishers, characters, etc., but I did make more of them than you would expect! Thanks G-man, for blessing my Dice rolls! ;) My General got into hth each and every game, and never died/ran off. He, in fact, won every combat he was involved in. No challenges, but still, he fought against a bone giant and a Beastman Shaggoth personally. His Weeping Blade definitely proved it's value!! He did get wounded 2 times in the game against the High Elf player, though. And although I lost to the HEs, I had my 'revenge'(Neither the hero character who was his general, or his lvl-4 Arch mage lived to gloat about their victory against me. My wizards did their best in my game against the HEs, in fact. I killed his general with a warp lightning spell cast with Irrestible Force(rolled a 13 to cast, then a 11 for number of hits!!) the same wizard also wounded the other hero and killed his eagle mount in exactly the same way(a 13 cast, but fewer hits) My WE also just wouldn't die until the very end. Before wounding the one hero, the hero shot at him from point blank range. He hit twice with his magic bow, but then rolled two ones to wound(which was the only thing he could fail to wound on!) Later I had this wizard run from a charge made by a unit of knights. he escaped, then rallied on his own, and killed the HE general that very rallying turn(you can cast magic when you rally). he did eventually get killed, though. (If he hadn't, the story would be that Skarnak would've had to dispose of the WE personally. This Warlock proved TOO competent in his abilities!! ;) :D )

Things I learned from this Tourney. Having the WEs out all on their own is good, as long as the opponent has no way to 'snipe' them(no cannons, or magic missles). Against both the HE player and the Lizzy player, I had to keep dispelling their magic missles which were aimed at my independant WEs. I stopped the lizzy cold by this, and eventually the HE killed my WEs, but I could've saved myself this headache by having my WEs inside units against these two armys. I guess it's just 'game shock'. I also play 40K, and in that game, Independant characters are safer all on their own, for the most part. But the opposite is usually true in Fantasy. Well, live and learn.

I also did very well in my 'soft scores'. IIRC, I got a 24 for sportsmanship(max anyone got was 25), a 9 for army composition(max anyone got was 10), and an 18 for painting/appearance(max anyone got was 22-23). We got to see the final total results sheet after the tourney. Not what each opponent gave us, but the final overal totals for everyone. So in the end, I did very well indeed. In fact, I think this was the best I ever did at a Fantasy Tourny. Next time I'll try to do better. Sorry if the post was too long, but I like to be thorough.

May The Great Horned Rat be with you.

Taishar
18-07-2005, 07:37
Zug Zug.

I like long posts. What type of army were you playing? (like outline the basics). It seems like you should have man crushed the high elves (though it's not like I was there ;p).

(you can cast magic when you rally).

This is incorrect. You generate dice, but not can personally cast spells.


Cheers

Warppaw
18-07-2005, 11:46
(you can cast magic when you rally).

This is incorrect. You generate dice, but not can personally cast spells.


No, your mage can cast spells as long as he rallied before the magic phase.

Congratulations Gnashrod.

Warlord Gnashgrod
18-07-2005, 18:56
Thanks all.

My army list is a few pages back. Exactly where I don't know. I had 3 main blocks of clanrats, 35 in each, full command except 1 didn't have a banner. My BSB went there. 3 20-rat strong slaves, one with musician, 3 4-rat globadier teams, 2 5-rat gutter runner teams, 1 was scouts, one tunnellers. Both had poisoned hand weapons and the scouts also had poisoned stars, 18 giant rats, 4 swarms, and a warlord: weep blade, foul pendant, enchant shield and heavy armor, BSB: Storm banner, 2 WEs full equipment xcept pistols, 2 scolls each. That about covers it.

The Storm Banner did very well for me too. The only game it was useless in was the first one against beastmen, as he had no flyers or shooters. It lasted the whole game against the Tomb KIngs(We got in a full 5 turns, with him having first turn), and was usefull in the other two games as well. My tunnellers did very well indeed. They killed the HE archmage personally, and were helpful agiainst his bolt throwers and also destoyed a Tomb Scorpion(and the Scorpion actually charged THEM, so it went first) and destroyed his one screaming skull catapult. My giant rats didn't do too much, but I think I'll keep using them for awhile. I haven't used them much, so I'm not sure how best to use them yet. Probably as either support in hth or going after war machines and lone chars. My wizards did fairly well. The Beastman only had a lvl 1 shaman, and he got a useless spell. I fried his shaman with warp lightning. IThe second game they did okay, but nothing too spectacular. Against HEs I already said how well they did, and against Lizzies, magic became essentially a non-factor. We both countered each other's spells well.

Well, that pretty much covers the rest of what happened in the tourny.

Taishar
19-07-2005, 07:00
Zug Zug.

I'll check on the rally mages thing but I'd swear thats what it is.

For giant rats, I sort of like to use them as more manuevarable slightly better in combat slaves. 3 packs cost only 90 points, so it's not a huge deal if you lose em. They look semi-imposing when ranked, so they can be a nice distraction, or good flankers or killing unranked units if they don't take care of em.

Personally, I don't like 35 models in clanrats, but opinion is all over the place on that one. I'd drop a scroll for storm demon, as it's simply amazing for the points. No jezzails?


Cheers

Warlord Gnashgrod
19-07-2005, 07:34
Trust me. I've checked it out plenty of times. Wizards CAN cast spells on the turn that they rally, as long as it was before the magic phase. In fact, I can give you the page number in the USA main rulebook. It's in the magic section, page 139, specifically under the "Fleeing Wizards" section. Helpful info to know.

To use Jezzails, I would need to have at least 10 for them to be effective. I used to field a unit of 6, but they just didn't do much for me. I decided to try something different. And it seems to work much better.

A couple of other funny things that happened: My rat swarms were a MVP against the Beastman player. They got a flank charge on a unit of 4 dragon ogres, and almost managed to kill one of them. Even so, they still won the combat, and ran down the Ogres. Also, my slaves did fairly well in 3 different games. They held off a charge from a unit of 5 HE knights, and even ran them down in the next turn. They also ran down a unit of 4 Kroxigors by charging them in the flank while they were engaged in the front with my tunnelers. The Krox failted their panic check and were run down by the slaves. It seemed funny to me, that they ran from slaves.

Forgot to mention, I also had 2 Ratling guns in my army.

Yeah, giant rats are a little better in combat than slaves, but slaves have the much better bonus of not causing panic when they run, except to other slaves. Not true of Giant rats. Still, I'll try them out some more. i think they can be very useful yet. They did help me out some.

skavenguy13
19-07-2005, 12:41
Well, I also prefer slaves to giant rats. They're way cheaper and don't caus panic tests. And the giant rats only go 1" faster and the +1WS isn't that useful. For the cost of 3 packs (normal unit) you can get 2 small units of slaves (20+musician).

I do use giant rats, however. What I do is I use 1 pack and place it either on a flank (if I don't have other flankers) or put a clanrat unit 2,5" back and place the giant rats in front. If they flank, they're fast enough to keep up with the others while wheeling. If they are in front of clanrats, put the weapon team just behind the rats. If the rats flee, they should go fast enough not to cause any test. Basicly, their job is to go as fast as possible to act as a screen, go for a warmachine/shooters/wizards, block marches or flank a unit.

Warlord Gnashgrod
19-07-2005, 14:57
Exactly what I do my best to use the giant rats for as well; as hth support/countercharge unit, etc etc. This seems to be their best use, what with their higher movement and all. The same thing can be said for Rat Ogres as well.

As I said, I do plan to keep using them for a while. As I haven't used them very much(hardly at all, in fact), I haven't gotten the proper way TO use them nailed down yet. But I will, with time. :D

I just realized something about "The Messengers" scenario. I think this may be the best way to handle them. What do you think?

The messengers are placed down last, before scouts. I think the best place for them is all together on one of the extreme flanks. Since they're still individual chars, the opponent can only deal with them one at a time, for the most part. This will give the others the chance to move farther and maybe even get off the board. At the very least, the opponent will have to divert resources away from your main line to stop them. Doing so isn't so hard for us Skaven, as a hoorde army. But it is for smaller, more elite armies. What do you all think?

TheNurglitch
19-07-2005, 20:25
Hello!
I had a nice game against Warmaster Skaven. Believe me, in WM this army is overpowered :D
So much shooting, Rat Ogres are awesome and Doom Wheel is an absolute killer :>

Warlord Gnashgrod
20-07-2005, 15:04
Greetings-greetings, all.

You've asked me why I have units of 35 clanrats in my army. Believe me, there is an intelligent and competitive reason for it. Here it is: In RTTs, many games have you earn an extra Battle Point(BP) if you destroy your opponent's highest-cost/most expensive unit. If I didn't take at least 1 unit of 35 clanrats, then my Rat Swarms would be my most expensive unit, and as I use my swarms in a very sacrificial manner, I don't want to give my opponent a free BP if I can help it.

I don't know how you guys use your rat swarms, but I myself use them as a 'speed bump' for what I think is the most dangerous unit in the enemy army; for tomb kings, Chariot units. Usually for anyone else, large units of cavalry. As the swarms don't flee, they enemy unit is stuck there until the swarms are wiped out, and 9 times out of 10 they do get wiped out. By holding the enemy unit there, I am able to get a few more magic missles, RG shots and globadier shots at them, to soften them up. So there you have it; why I have blocks of 35 clanrats. Also by having 3 of them, then no 1 unit is my 'most expensive', which makes it even harder to get that extra BP against me. Quite clever, wouldn't you say?

As for why I always take max number of dispell scrolls....I've said it many times before, and I guess I'll say it again. I want to be CERTAIN that I stop the opponent's most dangerous spells. I don't want to 'play the odds' of rolling the dice if I can help it. Yes, eventually I run out of scrolls. But hopefully by then I'm in hth combat, and they can't cast magic missles into hth combat. Only Skaven can ;) It's the same reason I always take the Storm Banner, which is the best army standard for RTTs, IMO. It can be usefull against any army, as long as it has either some shooting, some flyers, or both. Back to the dispel scrols, I hate the Storm Daemon, because it only casts the lower lvl version or warp lightning. If you roll a one on number of hits, its worse than useless. then you might roll another one, and it's used up for the game. That is NOT worth 25 points. I always cast warp lightning at the higher level, even if my target is a one wound model. The odds of getting 'snake eyes' is much less than getting a single one on one dice. I prefer to play the odds in my favor, not my opponents. It's just good tactical sense. If the Warp Scroll was only 25 points, I would take that, but they made it cost 30 points, no doubt to prevent you from carrying a dispell scroll and a warp scroll on a WE.

So there you have my explanations. Now what do you think of my army?

Warlord Gnashgrod
20-07-2005, 15:05
Also, all you need to do is keep the big block units around 6-8 inches apart. Then they don't get in each others way, and flank charges can still be done relatively easily. I'm used to doing this.

Warlord Gnashgrod
20-07-2005, 19:35
On another subject, Does anyone know if the rules for the special character Ikit Claw are official, and where I might be able to find them? In particular, if they exist in some Chronicles article(in either a White Dwarf or one of the Annuals). Any helpful info here would be great.

skavenguy13
20-07-2005, 21:58
http://uk.games-workshop.com/skaven/special%2Dcharacters/

there you go.
And I'm pretty sure you have to ask permission (not official). Maybe it's written in the page somewhere.

Warlord Gnashgrod
23-07-2005, 15:06
Greetings-greetings, all.

Thanks for the link/info Skavenguy13. It is most appreciated.

Back to the Heros tactica: ASSASSIN: Pros: A rather nasty model in hth. As good as the Warlord, but cheaper points wise when you figure in extra magic equipment for both.. His special disguise ability makes him a nasty surprise for enemy units when a charge is done either by the Skaven unit he's hiding in, or against. Has the potential to take out unit champions and possibly even heros, with the right weapons. Automatically comes with magic weapons, the poisoned hand weapons and throwing stars. Could make a good unit leader for Gutter runner scouts with his LD 8 and stats. Has many different weapon options available so the can have different duties in a game.

Cons: Cannont join a tunnelling team(too dangerous with the potential of tunnel collapse). Has no armor at all, which makes him vulnerable to attack. Although he has the chance to take out enemy heros, if he fails, he will most likely be killed himself, thanks to the no armor. The 2nd most expensive character available to Skaven, before magic items and other equipment are figured in. The only one who's basic cost is higher is the Grey Seer. Has a very specialized role for the battle - going after lone chars, war machines, unit leaders and heros in units. If not used for such duties, the points spent on him are wasted.

May The Great Horned Rat be with you.

Warlord Gnashgrod
29-07-2005, 15:28
Greetings-greetings, all.

So where is everybody? I and Skavenguy13 seem to be the only ones who've posted lately.

The final installment for the heros description tactica.

Master Moulder: Pros; a requirement if you plan to have lots of clan moulder units in your army(giant rats, rat ogres). His beastmaster special rule is very helpfull in regards to these units. is the only character with access to the Things-catcher, the only magic weapon in the Skaven book that gives the killing blow special rule.

Cons: Is ONLY usefull if you take lots of clan moulder units in your army. LD isn't very high.
Is rather expensive points-wise for what he provides to the army. Beastmaster special rule ohly has a range of 6 inches, so not that good. Can only get light armor for basic armor.

I myself have never used the Master Moulder, so I almost forgot to include him in this tactica. I just don't see him as worthwhile, unless you're doing a Moulder themed army list.

Well, there you have it. All the Skaven hero level characters have been mentioned. Feel free to add your own comments, after all this is supposed to be a joint effort. Also, what did you all think of my explanations for why I have 35 clanrats in my units? I mentioned my reasons in post #234 of this thread.

C'mon, fellow Council members: we got to keep this thread going strong!

May The Great Horned Rat be with you and bless all your dice rolls.

Warppaw
29-07-2005, 19:51
I'm still around, but posting has been prevented by work, apathy, a recent obsession to online poker, and the lack of anything coherent to say.

Thanks Gnashgrod! (I finally noticed the second g :o )
Let that be a kick in the rear to the rest of you! Believe it or not, I'm not nagging for my own benefit. I picked up Ben Burn's booklets a couple of months ago, so I'm stocked up.

Sylass
29-07-2005, 20:15
I hope you don't mind if I rename this thread to "WarSeer's Skaven Council of Thirteen". :)

Warppaw
29-07-2005, 20:28
Would it matter?
:p

Geetarman
29-07-2005, 22:02
No you can't! You simply mustn't! I forbid you to, oh, youve done it, yeah, uh, no probs oh great omnipotent one *begs a bit* to avoid potential strike :D

Greets chamber! MY apologies for not being very active of late, but preparation for my wedding is now over, and I get married at 3pm GMT on July 30th! (tomorrow!) So I might be away for a week or so ;)

I hope to return soon!

Gman

skavenguy13
29-07-2005, 22:27
All hail the Great Horned Rat and the very lucky breeder he has!

Anyway, the main reason I'm not posting about heroes tactica recently is mainly because I don't use them. I tried the assassin a couple of times, but found out simple assassins really suck, I need masters! I used both the plague priest and master moulder only once or twice and didn't went well, so no good advice here either. And I explained how I use/equip my engineers, so nothing important to add here either. Sorry WarpPaw :(

Sylass
29-07-2005, 22:31
Would it matter?
:p
Good point. :D;)

Geetarman
29-07-2005, 22:39
All hail the Great Horned Rat and the very lucky breeder he has!

You know it ;)

And I will work on my hero advice whilst I, um.... party ;)

Gman

Warppaw
29-07-2005, 22:53
And I will work on my hero advice whilst I, um.... party

If you do, I will personally make a detour to the UK just to smack you over the head. Congratulations on your wedding Gman. Enjoy your honeymoon, and be sure to give your wife the best wishes from your geeky online buddies :D

Warlord Gnashgrod
30-07-2005, 06:08
Congratulations, Geetarman. May the wedding go well, and the honeymoon go really well. And I agree with WarpPaw. I'm sure you can think of plenty of other stuff to do on your honeymoon than to post here. ;)

skavenguy13
30-07-2005, 22:40
I have a question for you all: do you think elite (stormvermin and PM) troops are worthy? For the same points, I could buy a same-sized unit of clanrats, 20 slaves and possibly a weapon team. I've tried stormvermin a couple times without any success. And PM seem to only be effective against undead or basic elves (spearlelves, archers). I'd rather buy all the other stuff IMO. Also, I have extra points if I have lots of core.

Warlord Gnashgrod
31-07-2005, 05:12
Frankly, I don't use Stormvermin. Stormvermin are only slightly better than regular clanrats, meaning they would be okay against the opponents basic infantry, but will have pretty much the same problems as Clanrats against other units. Plus they're considerably more expensive than clanrats. I think being able to have another clanrat unit and a slave unit is far more useful. Plague Monks can be okay, but I still prefer to have a horde as an army. The result is that there's too much for the enemy to deal with, and you overwhelm them with numbers, just like a Skaven army actually would, IMO.