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Treadhead_1st
10-03-2008, 13:08
Right, I am well impressed with some of the new models (Dire Wolves look great painted up, Southampton's store had some killer ones!), and generally like Vampires etc - never got into the VC years back because I hated the models.

Still not sure what army I'm going to develop next, so I'm working out several strong lists and then borrowing various friends' vast collections of models to test them out to see which I prefer.

Anyway, please can you tell me what you think of this 2K list. I tried to stay away from getting too spendy on and one character or unit, but...

Lords

Vampire Lord: Blood Drinker, Walach's Bloody Hauberk, Red Fury, Walking Death & Infinite Hatred.
390 (Goes in Grave Guard)

Heroes

Vampire 1: Tomb Blade, Sceptre de Noirot & Avatar of Death.
170 (Goes in Skeleton unit)

Vampire 2: Scabscarth, Enchanted Shield, Avatar of Death & Ghoulkin.
190 (Goes in Ghouls)

Core

24 Skeletons: Musician & Standard Bearer.
204

20 Skeletons: Musician & Standard Bearer.
172

13 Crypt Ghouls.
104

5 Dire Wolves.
40

5 Dire Wolves
40

Special

17 Grave Guard: Great Weapons, Full Command, Banner of the Dead Legion.
274

8 Black Knights: Hell Knight.
240

Rare

Varghulf.
175

2001 (1 point over - it's got to go somehow!)
96 Models

Vampire Lord and Tomb Guard (6x3) make a "hammer" unit in my line. Closely supported by the 20 man Skeleton regiment (5x4) . The idea is that I can keep replenishing any casualties (Banner + Blood Drinker), then go to town with the Great Weapons.

In conjunction with the above, but slightly on it's own (to capitalise on wargear) is the 24-Skellie regiment with Vampire 1 (5x5)- the Vampire replenishes Skeletons with the Tomb Blade, and pops up large units of Zombies with the Sceptre to flank enemy units, etc.

Ghouls + Vampire 2 (7x2) take one flank, supported by the Black Knights. Knights are so large as to be able to soak up casualties, as people will target them. Being able to nip through terrain could be a useful ability, and might catch some people out.

Varghulf and Dire Wolves take the other flank, and hunt down War Machines, or go for small, weak support units & gunlines.

How can I loose that 1 point easily - loose a Ghoul?

Thanks for any tips anyone might have - I appreciate it's a new book and people are still trying to find their feet, but am I going right, for a new player?

Preacher
10-03-2008, 13:35
I would consider perhaps making one of your vampires a caster. The blood drinker is ok but the bulk of your ability to raise skeletons comes from combat. If you dont see combat for 2 turns, you wont be able to really raise any(6 PD, casts on a 4+, opponent will have Dispel Dice and scrolls).

If your going to take the GG with Great Weapons, you might want to try to find some points to get the Banner of Barrows so all those attacks are +1 to hit. Its also a good idea to put a corpse cart behind them, or close so they can strike first with them,even if there are charged.

If its points shaving your trying to do. Your unit of BK's is rather large they should be ok at 5 and you could make your unit of skeles 20 instead of 24 same with your ghouls make them 10. If you had a "casting" vampire you could help bolster these units quicker.

Just a couple of my thoughts, but dont take my advice I dont play VC yet and just got the book myself.

Treadhead_1st
10-03-2008, 14:26
I suppose I could make Vampire 2 a Caster instead of the current kit - would allow me to raise, as you said, and thus replenish more losses/create more units.

I went with the Banner of doubling-number to ensure I outnumber the enemy with Fear causing units for auto-break. +1 to hit does sound tasty though - which do you think is more of an overall benefit?

Treadhead_1st
10-03-2008, 23:27
Ok, how does this look? Tried to make a magic-y Vampire (the "night" one):

Lords

Vampire Lord: Blood Drinker, Walach's Bloody Hauberk, Red Fury, Walking Death & Infinite Hatred.
390 General, Goes in Grave Guard.

Heroes

Vampire “death”: Hand Weapon, Hand of Death, Avatar of Death, Lord of the Dead.
185 Goes in 19-Skeleton unit

Vampire “night”: Hand Weapon, Armour of Night, Sceptre de Noirot, Hunter in the Dark & Summon Ghouls.
190

Core

19 Skeletons: Hand Weapon, Light Armour, Shield, Musician & Standard Bearer.
164

25 Skeletons: Hand Weapon, Light Armour, Shield, Musician & Standard Bearer.
212

15 Crypt Ghouls.
120

6 Dire Wolves.
48

6 Dire Wolves.
48

Special

17 Grave Guard: Great Weapons, Heavy Armour, Full Command, Banner of the Dead Legion.
274

6 Black Knights: Barding, Standard Bearer & Banner of Hellfire.
194

Rare

Varghulf.
175

2000 exactly.
98 Models

The idea is pretty much the same, except now "night" Vampire scouts up one side of the board, and allows the Ghouls to run up to him, replenishing ranks as they go. Then go on the flank-attack, supported by hordes of raised Zombies.

"death" Vampire is there to give people expecting an easy CC win something to worry about, and to boost the smaller Skeleton regiment to decent fighting size.


I am thinking of perhaps switching Walking Death on the Lord to Ghoulkin, to allow the Ghouls to get into position faster - do you reckon it's a good idea, or should I keep the extra Combat bonus, since I only have 2 rank bonus on the Grave Guard?

What do you think about the list now?

Lord_Crull
10-03-2008, 23:54
If I were you I'd get rid of Scabscarth and grab Swor do Might instead and on Vamp 1 get rid of the sceptere and the Avatar of Death and take Flayed Hauberk instead and for powers take Dark Acolyte and Lord of the Dead.

Are you sure you want your lord to have only a 4+ save? I can see a unit of knights on the charge killing him pretty good.

Lord_Crull
11-03-2008, 00:02
Sorry, you where a bit fast there, I would get rid of the Hand of dust and grab a couple of power stones instead to bolster you magic phase.

Mu other uggestions apply.

Treadhead_1st
11-03-2008, 00:07
Power Stones could be useful, actually - force a few spells through enemy defences.

Don't forget the Walach's thingy also has a Ward Save built in - that's why I took it really.


Which Vampire would the Hauberk be best on now? The "night" one, who is harder to hit (-3 all told), but has no armour at all, or the more Combat-orientated one (though this would mean taking but a single Powerstone).

Lord_Crull
11-03-2008, 00:14
The combat-oriented one, if he is going to be in combat then you can really use that 2+ save.

The night one is going to be safe at longe range anyway so he does not need it.

Treadhead_1st
11-03-2008, 00:36
What do you think of this then?

Lords

Vampire Lord: Blood Drinker, Walach's Bloody Hauberk, Red Fury, Walking Death & Infinite Hatred.
390 Goes in Grave Guard

Heroes

Vampire “death”: Sword of Might, The Flayed Hauberk, Talisman of the Lycni, Lord of the Dead & Dark Acolyte.
195 Goes in 14-Skeleton unit

Vampire “night”: Hand Weapon, Armour of Night, Sceptre de Noirot, Hunter in the Dark, Summon Ghouls.
190 Ahead of Ghouls

Core

14 Skeletons: Musician & Standard Bearer.
124
Get bolstered by the "death" Vampire - why pay for what you can get for free?

25 Skeletons: Musician & Standard Bearer.
212
this time I can't rely on them being near "death" Vampire, and the Lord might want to do other spells - hence the numbers.

15 Crypt Ghouls.
120

6 Dire Wolves.
48

6 Dire Wolves.
48

Special

Grave Guard: Great Weapons, Full Command, Banner of the Dead Legion.
274

7 Black Knights: Standard Bearer & Banner of Hellfire.
222
To soak casualties, and become more of a "hammer" unit

Rare

Varghulf.
175

1998 (2)

Few less models, but I'll try to raise them up to mitigate this factor. Same tactics as before, with the Knights supporting the Ghouls.

Lord_Crull
11-03-2008, 01:10
Good but some campions for your units might help take challenges that your vampire can't do. remember you want your vamps to kill models and get CR not go off on challenges, and you can easily re-raise the champions agin if you need too.

Preacher
11-03-2008, 02:22
Its starting to look really good Tread. I think the list is really becoming solid. You should get a play test game together and see how it does.

Treadhead_1st
11-03-2008, 14:26
I could cut 2 Dire Wolves to get Champions in the Skeleton units? Well, in at least 1 Skeleton unit, the 14 one - the 25-block won't be joined by a Character, so do you think it's worth having a Champ?

What's going to be worse for the undead, a character slaughtering 5+ models, or getting +5 Overkill bonus?

Treadhead_1st
12-03-2008, 01:20
I've done a little chopping and changing, mostly to the Black Knights and Vampires. What do you think now, and of the possible changes I could make, outlined below?


Lords

Vampire Lord: Blood Drinker, Walach's Bloody Hauberk, Red Fury, Walking Death & Infinite Hatred.
390 Goes in Grave Guard

Dispossessed Blood Dragon - he left the Blood Keep believing that the Blood Knights had lost the code of honour they supposedly resolutely follow, as they slaughter wantonly. He forged a new blade, one that renews his vigor with every stroke, raising the worthy dead to join at his side.

Heroes

Vampire “death”: Sword of Might, The Flayed Hauberk, Talisman of the Lycni, Lord of the Dead & Dark Acolyte.
195 Goes in 14-Skeleton unit

Vampire “night”: Hand Weapon, Armour of Night, Sceptre de Noirot, Hunter in the Dark, Beguile.
200
A Lahmian vampire called back from the Wild Mountains to serve under the ancient Blood Knight. She acts alone, working into forward positions before calling her ghoulish minions to her side. Her looks are enough to weaken any mortals resolve.

Core

14 Skeletons: Full Command.
132


25 Skeletons: Full Command.
220

15 Crypt Ghouls.
120

5 Dire Wolves.
40

5 Dire Wolves.
40

Special

Grave Guard: Great Weapons, Full Command, Banner of the Dead Legion.
274

6 Black Knights: Standard Bearer & Banner of Hellfire.
194
To soak casualties, and become more of a "hammer" unit

Rare

Varghulf.
175

1980 (20)

91 models.

How does this rate compared to earlier? I essentially lost a Knight and Summon Ghouls in order to take a power more suited to the Lahmian idea I had for this character. 15 Ghouls, supported by the Knights, should be enough anyway.

Now, here is the change I muttered about above:

I could loose an extra Knight, and drop both powers on the "death" Vampire. In exchange, I could take Master of the Black Arts on him, and then boost his Skeleton unit to 19-strong.

Do you think that's a good idea? It means I gain more power dice (by one), and grant me the ability to raise even more Zombies. The downsize is I cannot then boost the Skeleton unit above the starting number, nor can I stand a chance of getting better spells (that I would actually be able to get off, such as Summon Undead Horde, as I can throw 3 dice at them with Lvl 2, as opposed to the 2 of Lvl 1. Yet is that an issue, as the Vampire Lord could take up the "big spell" slack?

Thoughts on the "death" Vampire?

cowzrnomatoh
12-03-2008, 03:32
my 2 cents.
From playing Woodelves.
I learned that...Sometimes....2 alterkindreds were better than one uber one.
leaving the lord a spellweaver and 2 alterkindred.

With VC
you could go either:
A: Mannfred count
B:make you lord the spell user and use the heros for combat.
c: even use the mannfred hero...

either way(s).

Treadhead_1st
12-03-2008, 13:44
I don't like using Special Characters, I feel that when they start appearing in every army of their race that it gets a bit stupid. Plus prefer creating my own stories.

I could make the Lord a magic caster, but the Bloodrinker is such a good weapon it's hard to pass up, especially combined with Red Fury - and since he's going to need some armour, that puts the combo out of the reach of Hero-level vampires.