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Malorian
10-03-2008, 16:25
I'm one of those people that think special characters add a lot of flavour to an army, so when I got the new vampire book I raced to read about them and see what neat rules they had.

Now the characters on their own were fine, but then I realized they were all dead... and I'm not talking undead here. All of them had been defeated in battle and been destroyed with the exception of one that 'might' have gotten away...

I find this to be a real downer as I find it hard to use dead special characters.

Does anyone else find this upsetting?

marv335
10-03-2008, 16:27
Being upset that Vampires are dead is like being upset that Brettonians ride horses.
;);)

tdh6002
10-03-2008, 16:34
Yeah, when i read the armybook i was a little disapointed to.....

The army we are playing with is already defeated.. it's pretty lame....

Abhorash
10-03-2008, 16:35
Im more upset cause they added blood knights but not walach <.<

Malorian
10-03-2008, 16:36
Being upset that Vampires are dead is like being upset that Brettonians ride horses.
;);)

har har...

But you know what I mean right? It seems a lot of army books might have maybe 1 special character that is dead but there is still at least one that is alive.

I find it hard to enjoy a character that has already had it's head chopped off by a dwarf... (Konrad)

Petey
10-03-2008, 16:54
Mannfred is SOOOOO not dead

Forbiddenknowledge
10-03-2008, 17:05
It seems to be the custom with GW these days - "historical refights" instead of advancing the plot.

And Mannfred still lives, its obvious. He's like the comic book character that gets defeated at everyturn, but still survives for the sequal, stroking a frozen cat.

nagash66
10-03-2008, 17:06
Well he did die, he just came back and you know what there are worse thing then death, losing a face off to Volkmar for one

de Selby
10-03-2008, 17:07
I found it slightly odd. The book is strongly geared towards 'historical' (if we take the storm of chaos setting as contemporary) characters. Compare and contrast with the tomb kings, who are still hanging out in the desert and will continue kinging indefinitely.

There's generally not more than one vampire count and currently it's Mannfred. Really the book should be called Warhammer: Vampire guys. :D

alpha_dude
10-03-2008, 17:16
I agree with the poster. They keep hinting at the idea of bringing dead vamps back to life (mannfed was 'dead'...and black coaches carry the remains of long dead lords)... when i saw the new vlad model i thought they might have actually resurrected him, which would have been cool..but alas no. Why not put in guys who are still about, likewalach (time table wise) like walach, and keep the historical characters to the website, or white dwarf.

Feefait
10-03-2008, 17:16
At least you have special characters. The skaven and LM characters pretty much disappeared.

I assume most special characters are "historical' anyway, especially for an army/race like VC. Hard to believe that many potent vampires could arise and coexist or not be destroyed at once anyway. MOst of these armies have one central kingdom and ruling class that destroys any other would be rulers.

etancross
10-03-2008, 17:19
Its not just Vamps, look at the Orcs Army book, you will see that almost all their special characters (except Grimgor and maybe one or two others) are dead. I'm sure if you do some digging in other armybooks you will find either the same, or this is a new trend for GW.

Jedi152
10-03-2008, 17:29
The problem with vampires is that all the major ones have had their day. The threat of large scale vampire wars has pretty much ended, with the possible exception of Mannfred.

Chaos is the big threat at the moment.

The Clairvoyant
10-03-2008, 17:32
It says in the book that the army list depicts forces used during the Wars of the Vampires. It is a historical list compared with 'modern day'

redbaron998
10-03-2008, 18:13
I dont mind they are dead, I just hate the Van whatevers...so boring...I would have loved to see a SC of the major bloodlines (yes they do still exist but in another way) So like a Blooddragon (the bloodkeep guy?) etc..

Mireadur
10-03-2008, 21:50
Its not just Vamps, look at the Orcs Army book, you will see that almost all their special characters (except Grimgor and maybe one or two others) are dead. I'm sure if you do some digging in other armybooks you will find either the same, or this is a new trend for GW.

Its always been like this. Speaking of the orcs, in particular, it turns that they had kept the same specials for years and years until they came up with grimgor.

Only moment they began to create new people was for the storm of chaos events if i recall correctly.

Jonke
10-03-2008, 22:16
They ditched most old special characters and created a lot of new ones with the 6th edition. Now they'r ditching most special characters from the 6th edition and are bringing back the older ones.

E.g. Wurrzag, king Alrik and Zacharias gone and Azhag, Thorgrim and Vlad (and many more) being brought back.

Mireadur
10-03-2008, 23:35
Actually you are right, with 6th they made up new chars for many armies, i think this happened in the 1st half set of army books. I was just checking orcs 6th book and this is totally right. they speak of many of the old famous chars in small parragraphs but only give rules for 2 totally new chars (grimror and a chaman).

I guess they went back to the old chars because the rumoured 'WHF legendary battles' obviously needs of them.

the_raptor
10-03-2008, 23:58
No, they went back to old characters because after the Storm of Chaos campaign the Warhammer story is played out. The Warhammer world ends in the next few years, so the majority of new content *has* to be "historical". Warhammer is based on a certain genre of 80's fiction that requires an imminent apocalypse, it isn't your typical fantasy "everything is really grim but don't worry the hero will save the day". Chaos wins, just as it will in the real universe (entropy).

IronBrother
11-03-2008, 00:15
I was kind of hoping that they were going to bring back more of the other bloodline characters (i.e. Abhorash, Neferata and others - by the way does anyone know where I could find some old rules for Abhorash), but alas they did not. It is not a bad thing that they have killed the progression of the storyline, Storm of Chaos was one of the worst things to happen to the gameplay, and working fiction.

Valadar
11-03-2008, 05:12
I can`t imagine Abhorash or Neferata becoming lords since both of them have gone into isolation. However, it would`ve been nice that they include Walach, Zacharias and one of the higher agents for the Lahmians. I personally would`ve liked a stat line for Melchior, especially since they made an image for his army`s banner in the VC codex.

IronBrother
11-03-2008, 05:21
Yeah anything other than FOUR von Carstein vampire special characters would have been nice. What reason is there for not having more special characters, even if for just fluff and character? What about a Strigoi other than the Varghulf?

Perigrine
11-03-2008, 06:04
Personally I dont think its just an issue for fantasy fluff GW is pretty happy keeping all of their products hinged around certain time frames. and when you think about it really it means they can make boat loads of cash with minimal effort so for them they dont have to pay to advance a plot since they can merely add a paragraph to a briefly mentioned historical event and wam bam thank you ma'am that should keep the droving hordes of players happy for another couple of years or so they think.

NecroNurgle
11-03-2008, 06:09
Yeah anything other than FOUR von Carstein vampire special characters would have been nice. What reason is there for not having more special characters, even if for just fluff and character? What about a Strigoi other than the Varghulf?

QFT.
I would have liked to see the Ghoul King, the Silver Princess, The Red Duke, Gashnag the Black Prince, and a new Zacharias.

IronBrother
11-03-2008, 06:35
It's not that I don't like the special characters, it would be cool if they just would not up and abandon the other characters. I'm sure I am not alone, not by a longshot.

slayerofmen
11-03-2008, 06:41
well due to the fact that the book explains how the vampires can come back, either by using shiny jewelery or by the black coach etc. you could argue that the fluff they give you is what happened (which it is) and that the battles you are fighting now are the vampires reincarnated by their followers, like they keep saying its not like a dead vampire is really dead, its just resting, for a really really long time.

so, yeah think of it as, I'm pimping vampire number one and I'm back after the end of my known fluff cos I'm to hard to keep down.

even better it could become the focus of a campaign, a series of battles fought to give life force of dead vampire, and if you win the final battle takes place and you have a reincarnated "Vlad" pwning bitches and taking names.

(wow just gave myself a good idea)

my only gripe is where the hell is the Red Duke huh huh, where of all the fighty vampires they should have bought back it should have been him

Aladin_sane
11-03-2008, 19:54
Ah the amazing Manfred is still of the warhammer world I believe, he states himself in Libre Necris; 'I will not go back to how I was so many years after my humiliation at Hell Fenn.' So thats proof, and the fact that Manfred is to cool to be dead-dead!

Ethlorien
11-03-2008, 21:00
They need to just come out with a big fat book of characters. Current stats for all their named characters in Warhammer with models or conversions how to make them. I too am a fan of special characters. For the HE army, all the characters are current (except for Eltharion - while still alive, they went back and used pre-SoC aspect).

W0lf
11-03-2008, 21:33
Im upset because they arnt over-powered :(

What?

I am a power-gamer :P

donuter
11-03-2008, 21:53
im upset that:

A)no red duke

B)no zacharius or melekor

C)manfreds lost his hair and looks like a genestealer magos

benccowan
11-03-2008, 21:56
The problem with vampires is that all the major ones have had their day. The threat of large scale vampire wars has pretty much ended, with the possible exception of Mannfred.

Chaos is the big threat at the moment.

i only have two words to say to that <-----Bypassing the swear filter. Removed WarSeer Inquisition----> thier are loads of possibilities that are open for instance
-Zacharias very powerfull it just depends on wether he can be bothered
-Red duke if he gets up the courage to set siege again with the recent weakening he could become a threat.
-Manfred obviously
- that dude that everyone was meant to be working for in the nemesis crown campaign
-Nagash he is alive i have loads of proof if anyone wants it ill give it
-Ushoran if games workshop takes into acount the literature of warhammer he is alive
-luthor harkon ''avast maties lets show them landies what we can do''
-Abhorash ''im bord im gunna test my strength against someone rather than sit on this moutain and wait for some one to come and say daddy daddy i killed a dragon''
i could go on for hours

and yes i am upset about the special charachters they need a bit of veriaty why not remake one of the ones ive listed or remake one altogether

Ryusa
12-03-2008, 02:18
-Nagash he is alive i have loads of proof if anyone wants it ill give it
I want those proofs!!!
I love conspiracy theories!!!

slayerofmen
12-03-2008, 08:33
well being that there is stirring of them doing something with nagash (this year?) id say he is still a threat

WLBjork
12-03-2008, 09:11
I want those proofs!!!
I love conspiracy theories!!!

Page 53 of the VC Army Book, the background text states that Nagash is alive.

CouncilOfWar
12-03-2008, 09:55
[QUOTE=Forbiddenknowledge;2426260]It seems to be the custom with GW these days - "historical refights" instead of advancing the plot.QUOTE]

I know what you mean by that but, at the same time, if they were to advance the plots too much then there would eventually be nowhere left to go. The thing about the world of Warhammer is that survival is in the balance for many of the races...and in terms of fluff, many of the special characters have a direct effect on the outcome of the entire Warhammer world....for instance in the case of Malekith, the Dark Elf Witch King....or Archaon The Everchosen. Certain characters have to die...otherwise it would be over, at least story wise.

In terms of the Vampire and other undead characters.....well....it fits in with the army theme for the most part. The Vampire Counts and Tomb Kings are dead. The only exceptions, as far as I am aware, are Necromancers (potentially still living sorcerors who dabble in death and dark magic, who often develop their powers with the sole purpose of raising the dead to do their own bidding.

But otherwise...they are all dead. So is it that the characters are all dead as you put it...or that the majority have had their time and been defeated?

Council Of War

benccowan
12-03-2008, 12:30
I want those proofs!!!
I love conspiracy theories!!!

firstly darn you WLBjork you stole my thunder secondly page 30 imperial year 1681 it clearly states nagash has returned to life but from there on thier is no kill date which would be pretty important imo.

2 (source taken from trustworthy gw staff member but not found out personaly) the tomb kings of khemri are laying siege to nagashizzar and why else would they do that if thier was no nagash to protect it?

almost every highflying vamp these daysis being guided by nagash wilst he sits on his throne using them to fufill his plans.

Darnok
12-03-2008, 15:07
2 (source taken from trustworthy gw staff member but not found out personaly) the tomb kings of khemri are laying siege to nagashizzar and why else would they do that if thier was no nagash to protect it?

almost every highflying vamp these daysis being guided by nagash wilst he sits on his throne using them to fufill his plans.

Pretty much pure speculation. In contrast to the background in the VC and Empire book, this is not backed up by any trustworthy source. "Made up" at best.


i only have two words to say to that bull and s#1t

A more polite choice of words would do you no harm...

StrangeGuy
12-03-2008, 19:01
The problem with Vampires is that they're immortal. They've got forever to do something quite literally. They can wait and grow in strngth for as long as they want. Added to that they still always have a little bit more to learn or improve, so why not wait a year or two just honing those skills? It would take something really big to get them all worked up. Unforetunately, being one of the races with the power to end the world (alongside Orcs and Chaos), GW can never let them all do this.

benccowan
13-03-2008, 13:34
Pretty much pure speculation. In contrast to the background in the VC and Empire book, this is not backed up by any trustworthy source. "Made up" at best.



A more polite choice of words would do you no harm...

ok ill town down my speach also one of them is speculation the tomb kings one but tha nagash controlling thing is true

Gaftra
13-03-2008, 14:07
What I would have liked to see is at least one hero lvl charecter that says to players "Heres where VC are headed now". Some relatively "new" lord who has taken up the enormous void in Sylvania since apparently all the Carstein's are dust or jumped ship. Instead were told that everything is just kinda...there.
I love playing with characters they have in the book, it just feels the same as when a writer kills a character and then puts out "earlier adventures in their life". While you still like reading storys with your favorite hero it doesnt feel the same knowing how the story ends.

Scythe
13-03-2008, 19:29
Mah, I don't mind that much really. I was never a great fan of special characters anywway. I don't mind Vlad returning; that guy had style. Big advantage of the current rules is you can have a complete family reuinion, even in a 2000 pts army. ;)