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Vasteye
10-03-2008, 16:57
Hey all (usual apology if this has already been posted)

There's been a lot of discussion in this section about the nature of the Dark Eldar, and whether they are pirates or nutters or the dreaded "chaos eldar".

I have been reading the instruction booklet for DoW Soulstorm, and there is some mention of a greater link to Slaanesh then previously.

For example:
"Before they were enthralled by the Chaos God Slaanesh..." (Haemon. Lab description)
"Built in exultation of the Chaos God Slaanesh ..." (slave chamber description)

The descriptions do however also suggest that the DE have been 'cursed' by Slaanesh to crave the souls of their enemies.

I was wondering what people thought about this. Could it be largely non canon writings from relic, aiming for rule of cool? Or could this be a precursor for the new fluff when the DE are eventually redone?

Thanks

Moral Wiz
10-03-2008, 17:01
It's not relic. It's Iron Lore.

I don't know how reliable it is. They let a pretty major error slip in for quite a while (coughnecronsturningpeopleintonecronscough) I wouldn't place money on it.

malika
10-03-2008, 17:02
Weren't the DOW novels written by Goto? And with his "expertise" on the (Dark) Eldar the DOW team might take his ideas over.:eyebrows:

The pestilent 1
10-03-2008, 17:12
It's not relic. It's Iron Lore.

I don't know how reliable it is. They let a pretty major error slip in for quite a while (coughnecronsturningpeopleintonecronscough) I wouldn't place money on it.

He was a Pariah...
Last I checked, Pariah's are human.. Ish, at any rate.


That aside, isn't the whole point of the Dark Eldar stealing souls, to... Distract, Slaanesh from their own?

Bassik
10-03-2008, 17:21
That would be betther then the Dark Eldar stealing souls for the heck of it.
At least their fear of Slaanesh makes them not the killing machines they're made out to be, they have a very good reason.

40K Used to be all about shades of grey, I hope they go back to that time:)

Moral Wiz
10-03-2008, 17:26
Oh, I don't mean DC and that TechPriest. In the demo draft of SS, the Necrons were turning everyone and their brother into generic Necorns. That's just... odd

Mechanicus
10-03-2008, 17:39
What Kabal features in the campaign? Could it be one who turned to Slaanesh rather than the normal ones from Commorragh, like Vect's one (of which I can't remember the name)?

blackcherry
10-03-2008, 17:43
its not. having read the instruction book, the background in it pretty much says that they are slannesh worshipers. Time to get my angry face out:mad:

Moral Wiz
10-03-2008, 18:11
And it's the Black Heart. Vect's Kabal. And Vect is there in person.

Lexington
10-03-2008, 18:26
To be fair, in the single-player campaign, the Sisters of Battle, Space Marines, and Imperial Guard are all fighting each other for no particular reason at all, as far as I can tell (though I've not gotten far in it), so I wouldn't worry too much about the canonical nature of it. Dawn of War's an excellent video game, an an absolutely amazing visual adaptation of the various 40K armies, but it's never lined up very well with the universe in terms of storytelling or atmosphere.

Moral Wiz
10-03-2008, 18:33
Oh, ther is a reason. It's just the appallingly bad nature of the way it's done that means you don't know yet. It'll be in the stronghold battles.

Basicly, the Guard are suspected heretics (not actual, suspected) and the SoB and SM are in a headbutting match as to "who's in charge".

Mechanicus
10-03-2008, 18:34
its not. having read the instruction book, the background in it pretty much says that they are slannesh worshipers. Time to get my angry face out
And it's the Black Heart. Vect's Kabal. And Vect is there in person.Oh ****. :( Until further clarification (IE, the new DE codex), I'll take this as nothing more than a mistake. I would email them to see whether this was intentional or not, but since Iron Lore are going (gone?) out of business, I see little point.

Moral Wiz
10-03-2008, 18:43
I think it's the manual. I didn't spot anything in the Demo loges and the plot (what there is of it) doesn't say anything about them worshiping Slaanesh AFAIK.

Stronghold logs attached. DE scattered in there, but some of the stuff is grouped at the top.

and here's the text on a full DE victory

5200202 With the last major threat removed, the Dark Eldar were now free to roam through the Kaurava System, pillaging and laying waste as they saw fit. Like gruesome locusts, the Black Heart Kabal darkened the skies with their vehicles, descending on territory after territory, laying claim to prisoners and other spoils.

5200203 The speed and ravening hunger with which these raids were carried out was remarkable. Nothing could escape them. Nothing could outrun them. The keen senses of the Dark Eldar seemed to pierce all cover in search of their prey. It was not long before all Kaurava was stripped bare and devoid of life.

5200204 Back on the moon of Lacunae, cages grew full of captives and more cages were built. Archon Tahril and his master, Lord Vect, sat and supped goblets filled with the souls of their enemies. The Haemonculus Gruemenael cackled gleefully over his victims. As the Warp Storm quietly disappeared, so too did the Dark Eldar vanish, returned to the Webway to revel, then go in search of new, fresh worlds to pillage and enslave.

intellectawe
10-03-2008, 22:57
Its a video game instruction booklet. I laugh at people who take that as canon, just like people who keep taking that horrid game Fire Warrior for canon also.

The_Outsider
10-03-2008, 23:03
Disregard ANY/ALL fluff relating to DoW - they simplify things dramatically just so they don't need to cover huge amounts of background.

Mechanicus
10-03-2008, 23:13
Its a video game instruction booklet. I laugh at people who take that as canon, just like people who keep taking that horrid game Fire Warrior for canon also.
Let's put it another way: anything with a 40K logo on it is as official as any Codex... and at least as crammed full of rumours, distorted legends and half-truths.
I don't criticise what you choose to believe is 'true', and I'd appreciate it if you did the same. ;)

In my book, games are just as valid as anything else I might care to mention. I might not agree with their content, but I don't disregard them out of hand.

Disregard ANY/ALL fluff relating to DoW - they simplify things dramatically just so they don't need to cover huge amounts of backgroundEither way, simplifying is one thing; a misleading statement is another.

As far as we know, of course.

Imperialis_Dominatus
11-03-2008, 02:30
That would be betther then the Dark Eldar stealing souls for the heck of it.
At least their fear of Slaanesh makes them not the killing machines they're made out to be, they have a very good reason.

40K Used to be all about shades of grey, I hope they go back to that time:)

But that's the reason they do it- they use other souls to shield themselves from the Thirst that they suffer, due to not wearing soulstones. They're evil, sure, but wouldn't you be if you were continuing practices that led to the birth of a god based on debauchery and excess? Likely so. The DoW booklet suggests, from what I've heard, however, that the Dark Eldar actually worship Slaanesh. Which is wrong.


To be fair, in the single-player campaign, the Sisters of Battle, Space Marines, and Imperial Guard are all fighting each other for no particular reason at all, as far as I can tell (though I've not gotten far in it), so I wouldn't worry too much about the canonical nature of it. Dawn of War's an excellent video game, an an absolutely amazing visual adaptation of the various 40K armies, but it's never lined up very well with the universe in terms of storytelling or atmosphere.

I feel that it has a lot more lined up with the 40k universe than other games (aforementioned Fire Warrior included... but it was based on a book from BL, so they are to blame... business as usual then). Most things look and feel plausible within the game and the universe if you look at them contextually. I admit that this new Slaaneshi Dark Eldar thing, especially since it's the Cabal of Vect himself, seems way out of place.

Hive Mind 33
11-03-2008, 02:38
didn't Goto write this it could explain it?

Brother Siccarius
11-03-2008, 05:45
didn't Goto write this it could explain it?

Goto writes novels based on DoW, he doesn't write the DoW plotline or anything like that (Thank god).

folnjir
11-03-2008, 07:26
You never know maybe this is an indication of the direction GW is going to go with for the next DE codex. I don't have anything to support this, its just an idea. It certainly gives a bit more motivation for the DE to collect slaves and souls.

randomalias
11-03-2008, 09:55
This has always been the reason they raid and take slaves, dont people realise this? They don't raid for the hell of it, they need souls to take the place of their own to send to Slaanesh, because they have no soulstones to go into when they die.

intellectawe
11-03-2008, 10:58
I don't criticise what you choose to believe is 'true', and I'd appreciate it if you did the same. ;)


Taking what a video game company writes as canon is the same thing as if you wrote it or I did.

GW did not write it.

malika
11-03-2008, 11:26
You're almost making it sound as if GW have some higher standards when it comes to the fluff. As long as it has the GW logo it becomes canon... But then again...that is probably the reason why there are fan projects out there who want to think beyond the canon. :)

intellectawe
11-03-2008, 11:33
You're almost making it sound as if GW have some higher standards when it comes to the fluff. As long as it has the GW logo it becomes canon... But then again...that is probably the reason why there are fan projects out there who want to think beyond the canon. :)

So lets see...

I have a codex for my army, the Dark Eldar right here. Been using it for 10 years. Yes, 10 years. It mentions nothing about worshiping Slaneesh, rather, it mentions DE HATE and FEAR Her as much as any other Eldar.

Now comes along a video game written by Iron Lore. People who have never read a DE codex NOR played the army reads their manual. Lo and behold, DE now magically worship Slaneesh!

The problem isn't thinking beyond canon here, as you put it. The problem is people throwing the DE codex aside and taking the video game manual as canon as if it is the book people use when playing the table top game.

Wrong.

Vasteye
11-03-2008, 13:36
Now comes along a video game written by Iron Lore. People who have never read a DE codex NOR played the army reads their manual. Lo and behold, DE now magically worship Slaneesh!

I don't think you can really say that without any way of backing it up, they may well have players or researchers on their team.

Anyway, thanks for the responses so far. Something i don't think has really been discussed so far is - do we think this is the line GW will take in the future? I appreciate its not canon as it stands in the DE book currently, but may this be an indication of the future?

As a side note, i don't really like how Vect is used in the game. Isn't he pretty much the DE head honcho? Yet we can kill him in game?

intellectawe
11-03-2008, 13:47
I don't think you can really say that without any way of backing it up, they may well have players or researchers on their team.

Well I did :)

What researchers? The ones who didn't read any Eldar book for 25 years? I agree with you there.


Anyway, thanks for the responses so far. Something i don't think has really been discussed so far is - do we think this is the line GW will take in the future? I appreciate its not canon as it stands in the DE book currently, but may this be an indication of the future?

We'll never know until we see a new codex.


As a side note, i don't really like how Vect is used in the game. Isn't he pretty much the DE head honcho? Yet we can kill him in game?

You can kill him in table top.

Vasteye
11-03-2008, 13:54
You can kill him in table top.

Touche ^^

Woo, post no 100

intellectawe
11-03-2008, 14:21
Touche ^^

Woo, post no 100

Congrats!

Maybe when DE are redone, they may get a Slaneesh bent to them, but, they would mirror Dark Elves in Fantasy too much if they do this.

I am not a big fan of mirroring armies between the two games.

If DE turn out to start worshiping Slaneesh in their next codex, I am immediatley going to convert my DE army to Tzeentch. Seriously :)

Iracundus
11-03-2008, 15:38
If DE turn out to start worshiping Slaneesh in their next codex, I am immediatley going to convert my DE army to Tzeentch. Seriously

In the rampant dog eat dog world of politicking between Dark Eldar Kabals, it would be possible that some would turn to Tzeentch in order to get an edge over their rivals.

I would say Farseers would also be a tempting target for Tzeentch to tempt and corrupt. After all, the Farseers are really doing what Tzeentch does, just to a lesser extent, and Tzeentch has under his portfolio magic/psychics, intrigue, and also hope. For those Farseers trying to find a safe path to steer among all the myriad threats, or perhaps Biel-tan Eldar trying to find a way to bring about the rebirth of a new Eldar empire, a little assistance (with a hidden price or consequence) might be too much to resist...

Imperialis_Dominatus
11-03-2008, 16:41
You never know maybe this is an indication of the direction GW is going to go with for the next DE codex. I don't have anything to support this, its just an idea. It certainly gives a bit more motivation for the DE to collect slaves and souls.

Tell me how little motivation they had before. I mean, I can see it, if you consider the Thirst that drains the Dark Eldars' souls from their bodies and drags them into eternal torment at the hands of the worst enemy of their race to be only a small motivation.

See, when I put it that way, it doesn't seem so peachy. Of course they're going to take souls from people- would you want to let that happen to you? Honestly.


I don't think you can really say that without any way of backing it up, they may well have players or researchers on their team.

I think you misunderstand his post:


Now comes along a video game written by Iron Lore. People who have never read a DE codex NOR played the army reads their manual. Lo and behold, DE now magically worship Slaneesh!

In that he was saying that, Iron Lore, whether or not they had researchers and such or not, has violated the single tenet of Dark Eldar fluff that is really core to them, absolutely key to what they are in the 40k universe. Ergo, they are making misleading statements about Dark Eldar that should be purged from the Librarium of Terra. *dispatches deletion squad*

Mechanicus
11-03-2008, 16:50
Taking what a video game company writes as canon is the same thing as if you wrote it or I did.

GW did not write it.GW hasn't written the SG Fanatic Online issues, or some of the material contributed to the BI Calixis Sector index, or even, arguably, BL books, and yet they are still canon.

So lets see...

I have a codex for my army, the Dark Eldar right here. Been using it for 10 years. Yes, 10 years. It mentions nothing about worshiping Slaneesh, rather, it mentions DE HATE and FEAR Her as much as any other Eldar.

Now comes along a video game written by Iron Lore. People who have never read a DE codex NOR played the army reads their manual. Lo and behold, DE now magically worship Slaneesh!

The problem isn't thinking beyond canon here, as you put it. The problem is people throwing the DE codex aside and taking the video game manual as canon as if it is the book people use when playing the table top game.

Wrong.I think we're getting hung up on definitions here - I agree that the manual is probably wrong (or, at the very least, shouldn't be right), but I wouldn't argue that they're not canon. Not true is certainly possible, but canon does not equal true.

Maybe when DE are redone, they may get a Slaneesh bent to them, but, they would mirror Dark Elves in Fantasy too much if they do this.

I am not a big fan of mirroring armies between the two games.

If DE turn out to start worshiping Slaneesh in their next codex, I am immediatley going to convert my DE army to Tzeentch. SeriouslyAgreed on the first point - factions in the different games should at least be deeper than that WHF faction in space.

In that he was saying that, Iron Lore, whether or not they had researchers and such or not, has violated the single tenet of Dark Eldar fluff that is really core to them, absolutely key to what they are in the 40k universe. Ergo, they are making misleading statements about Dark Eldar that should be purged from the Librarium of Terra. *dispatches deletion squad*Indeed they are. I can only hope that it is not a sign of what's to come. simplifying the lists is one thing, but simplifying their background to Chaos eldar is too much.

intellectawe
11-03-2008, 17:54
GW hasn't written the SG Fanatic Online issues, or some of the material contributed to the BI Calixis Sector index, or even, arguably, BL books, and yet they are still canon.

To you.

For me, the only canon are the Main Rule Book, and Codecies. I don't read Novels, nor care for storyline of video games.

The issue with me is that GW on a whim changes years of established canon ( to make money ).

So ultimately, the Warhammer Universe has no canon. Tell me Squat army that. For players, Squat is part of Canon. For GW Squats are not part of canon.

I am not angry at you, sorry if I seemed that way. I just can't stand people pushing canon around in a mutable, fictional game setting. In my opinion, and for me, canon doesn't exist. But if I have to accept some form of foundation for the game, I stick with anything written by the authors of the game, not novels nor video games.

Mechanicus
11-03-2008, 18:27
To you.

For me, the only canon are the Main Rule Book, and Codecies. I don't read Novels, nor care for storyline of video games.I see where you're coming from now. :) Once again, we're back to true v. canon - when I see canon, I automatically read "what GW says is official" instead of "what I think is true". That seems to be where this has stemmed from.

The issue with me is that GW on a whim changes years of established canon ( to make money ).Well, yes, I can see that as being an issue, and unnecessary changes irk me too - we just deal with it in different ways. I just interpret what I think is reasonable (whether it be old or new or from book or game) as true.

So ultimately, the Warhammer Universe has no canon. Tell me Squat army that. For players, Squat is part of Canon. For GW Squats are not part of canon.Certainly, the design studio seem to want to forget the Squats - though the BLP definition of canon would bite them in the **** there, since Squats have been mentioned and hinted at in BL books and CJ before it stopped, and I would have believed they were still around (just weakened by tyranids) even if GW had personally taken my books and torn out any pages with the word 'squat' on them. :D

I am not angry at you, sorry if I seemed that way. I just can't stand people pushing canon around in a mutable, fictional game setting. In my opinion, and for me, canon doesn't exist. But if I have to accept some form of foundation for the game, I stick with anything written by the authors of the game, not novels nor video games.Ah, I see - as said, personally, I'd just use the word 'true' rather than canon. If you want to believe the only things that are possibly true are you read in the rulebooks and codices, then I (obviously, since it's not like I could do anything about it anyway ;)) have no problem with that.

I still have the worry that the Soulstorm developers went and got this idea from the design studio itself, since the Dark Eldar are one of the most characterful parts of the universe, and I would like to see them expanded on rather than changed. But I think that's doubtful at best.

intellectawe
11-03-2008, 18:44
Perhaps Iron lore was told of 'changes' to the Dark Eldar down the line, and to make the army in game accordingly....

Who knows :)

It is just odd to have something like Soulstorm say DE worship Slaneesh in so many words. I don't think Marine players would have liked it if Blood Ravens worshiped Khorne, or if Orks worshiped Nurgle in the game, or Necrons to Tzeentch!

Mechanicus
11-03-2008, 19:53
Perhaps Iron lore was told of 'changes' to the Dark Eldar down the line, and to make the army in game accordingly....

Who knows

It is just odd to have something like Soulstorm say DE worship Slaneesh in so many words. I don't think Marine players would have liked it if Blood Ravens worshiped Khorne, or if Orks worshiped Nurgle in the game, or Necrons to Tzeentch!Indeed. We'll find out soon enough, I suppose.

Lockjaw
12-03-2008, 03:59
So lets see...

I have a codex for my army, the Dark Eldar right here. Been using it for 10 years. Yes, 10 years. It mentions nothing about worshiping Slaneesh, rather, it mentions DE HATE and FEAR Her as much as any other Eldar.


Wrong.

and that's about ALL the codex has said about them.

1. they live in Commerraugh
2. they collect slaves
3> they like torture
4. they either drink souls, send souls to slannesh? (very vauge as is most of the codex)
5. they aren't nessicerily Slannesh fans (personally DE slanneshi cults, i honestly don't have a problem with, would still prefer to see the croneworld eldar though)

so basically the DE codex leaves a-LOT up to debate. and not everything GW says about them has made perfect sense anyway as apparently their spacecraft only have torture chambers and no living quarters, life support, bridge, or even engines

intellectawe
12-03-2008, 05:03
Yes, but the one thing NOT up for debate is whether they worship Slaneesh as a whole race.

They do not.

Last time I checked, Imperial Inquisitors torture victims just like the DE do.. Yet they are not magically worshiping Slaneesh.

Or are they? :)

Gauss
12-03-2008, 07:00
Really have to say they succeeded with the design and overall feel of the Dark Eldar in the game, Vect is really cool in the campaign too.

Mr Kibbles
12-03-2008, 10:24
I wish they had t-bolts instead of marauders for the guard's air unit.

Moral Wiz
12-03-2008, 16:14
Taking what a video game company writes as canon is the same thing as if you wrote it or I did.

GW did not write it.


But they oversaw it. That's what the logo means. They supposedly sent people down to double check on everything done in DoW; they did for the other games (which were entirely accurate AFAIK)

intellectawe
12-03-2008, 17:08
Well, if the other games were 'entirely accurate', then this one broke the mold by being false.

Lexington
12-03-2008, 18:07
But they oversaw it. That's what the logo means. They supposedly sent people down to double check on everything done in DoW; they did for the other games (which were entirely accurate AFAIK)
Which is really unfortunate, IMHO, as it indicates that official GW policy states that all inhabitants of the 40K universe are hideously brain-damaged.

Moral Wiz
12-03-2008, 18:39
Wha...? Can you explain that?

Lexington
12-03-2008, 18:40
Just taking a shot at the fairly shoddy writing throughout the series. It's a beautiful game that probably takes up more of my time than actual 40K these days, but at the same time, some of that dialogue makes my eyeballs hurt.

Also:


Basicly, the Guard are suspected heretics (not actual, suspected) and the SoB and SM are in a headbutting match as to "who's in charge".
Really, what more proof do you need? :p

kikkoman
13-03-2008, 17:00
the best the Dawn of War games do is mimic the 40k tabletop, in design, background, story.

I figure they're at their worst when they deviate from what's already established, in model design or background.

Strangely though, I've always figured Dark Eldar to have the ugliest model line, yet in DoW they seem to be the best looking race. Maybe Dark Eldar designs just mesh up with the videogame company's artistic tastes well.

MadDogMike
13-03-2008, 17:39
For me the worst issue with Soulstorm is I've heard it implies in some of the stronghold write-ups the Necrons take everyone a la the Borg to make into Necron warriors, as opposed to just blanks to make Pariahs. Haven't done enough strongholds with the Necrons yet to tell if that's true, but if so that's one bit of fluff I ain't considering canon.

intellectawe
13-03-2008, 17:48
...I ain't considering canon.

Which for me would be ANY video game manual.... :)

Lastie
13-03-2008, 18:04
... the Necrons take everyone a la the Borg to make into Necron warriors ...

Warseer needs a facepalm emoticon. I feel the urge to use it. :p

intellectawe
13-03-2008, 19:40
Warseer needs a facepalm emoticon. I feel the urge to use it.

Thats exactly how I felt when the manual said DE worship Slaneesh....

:cries: :wtf: :eek: :mad:

MadDogMike
13-03-2008, 20:18
Warseer needs a facepalm emoticon. I feel the urge to use it. :p

For things this wildly wrong, one facepalm just isn't enough. (http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/71/facepalmcollagexu2.jpg)


Thats exactly how I felt when the manual said DE worship Slaneesh....

Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm torn between which canon deviation is more irritating. I'm leaning towards the Necrons because at least you have to more or less going looking for the Dark Eldar BS in the tooltips, while the Necron thing is proclaimed far and wide in their stronghold victory message. Kinda like trying to decide whether being shot or stabbed is worse :rolleyes:.

Moral Wiz
13-03-2008, 20:24
I think the Necron thing was removed after it was seen in the demo files.

Charax
13-03-2008, 20:32
Assuming this is the retail ending, it would appear they did remove the "turning people into necrons" thing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQSfH4s9WOo

jibbajabbawocky
25-03-2008, 18:14
But they oversaw it. That's what the logo means. They supposedly sent people down to double check on everything done in DoW; they did for the other games (which were entirely accurate AFAIK)

Completely untrue. Their logo is there since the game is a licensed product for one of their IPs. They own the intellectual rights to the game, to do with as they see fit. If the the game were actually canon, there would be legends of a brave squad of Blood Ravens and 5 Heavy Bolter turrets that systematically killed 200+ Wailing Banshees.


The Star Wars novels still say "Star Wars" even after George Lucas has said that they are no longer Canon in the least. (mostly as a defense for if he decides to change things, ala the origin of Boba Fett)

Iuris
25-03-2008, 19:12
Um. would I be the only one who would say that DE worshipping Slaanesh is not completely untrue?

It's just that their "torture souls to save my own from Slaanesh" is essentially quite similar to forced worship.

Khorne cares not where the blood comes from. Does Slaanes care where...

Imperialis_Dominatus
25-03-2008, 20:49
Um. would I be the only one who would say that DE worshipping Slaanesh is not completely untrue?

It's just that their "torture souls to save my own from Slaanesh" is essentially quite similar to forced worship.

Khorne cares not where the blood comes from. Does Slaanes care where...

As I understand it, they torture people to make their souls taste better. The souls they consume are used as shields in the place of their own. I don't see them as Slaaneshi worshipers of any kind.

Besides, by that standard, being that no god cares from whence the blood/pus/mutation/bodily fluids of questionable nature comes from, then everyone in the galaxy is a Chaos cultist.

Ashnari Doomsong
25-03-2008, 21:16
...and Khorne shall send forth his flesh hounds to chomp vigorously upon those who spill the blood of innocents in his name.
Regarding the game, though - RARR!
It portrays Alpha Legionnaires as fanatical Khornates. My head very nearly explodes from the point that people can even begin to take it seriously.

Imperialis_Dominatus
25-03-2008, 21:37
[i]It portrays Alpha Legionnaires as fanatical Khornates. My head very nearly explodes from the point that people can even begin to take it seriously.

What? Oh my Emperor. Did they do any background research? Any?

Slaaneshi Dark Eldar and God-dedicated Alpha Legion. What's next, Chaos Tau? ;)

Luthien
25-03-2008, 22:02
You know, i could just see that. :D

Norminator
25-03-2008, 22:14
There's one bit of information on one of the provinces done as an Alpha Legion journal - it talks about them sacrificing Imperials to Khorne and praying to him :rolleyes: Oh dear...

Also, I noticed when I took out the Dark Eldar with Sisters it referred to them at least once as 'warped by Chaos' or 'Chaoticly influenced', something like that.

Gensuke626
25-03-2008, 22:45
So, In Summary, Iron Lore studios doesn't understand the Lore about the game they're crafting? I'm not surprised...but then again...We could just assume that the entire story is told from the Sisters of Battle's perspective, so everyone is a Heretic or Chaos Tainted...or Xenos...or a combination...:angel:

squeekenator
26-03-2008, 09:31
Don't believe anything from the DoW series. The gameplay and the original campaign are fantastic, but there are SO many flaws it just isn't funny. Off the top of my head -

1. Sindri saying "Blood for the blood god" and liking the fact that a Bloodthirster is being summoned.
2. The World Eaters having Sorcerers (I see a theme here).
3. The Alpha Legion having huge Bloodthirster shrines, massed Bloodthirsters and Berserkers, praying to Khorne and that, and having Sorcerers alongside them.
4. Soulstones being able to destroy Monoliths.
5. Dark Eldar worshipping Slaanesh.
6. A random planet in the Soulstorm campaign sending a detachment of 100 Baneblades around the system. No, it isn't a forge world.
7. Said random planet spamming Baneblades (taking about 8 minutes to get the parts and build one).
8. Living Saints having God Mode.
9. Tau Commanders with XV22 stealth suits (even worse because Shadowsun is a weaksauce character in model, rules and fluff).
10. Dark Eldar soul powers.
11. Archons with disintegrators.

Dark Eldar should not, should not, and WILL not become Chaos Eldar. They're currently unique and interesting. Really, why does ANYONE want them to become boring, generic bad guys? Just because everyone is ignorant of how the Dark Eldar work doesn't mean that they have no reason to go around eating souls and torturing people.

FarseerMatt
26-03-2008, 11:02
1. Sindri saying "Blood for the blood god" and liking the fact that a Bloodthirster is being summoned.
2. The World Eaters having Sorcerers (I see a theme here).
3. The Alpha Legion having huge Bloodthirster shrines, massed Bloodthirsters and Berserkers, praying to Khorne and that, and having Sorcerers alongside them.

Yes, tis true...though I appreciate they had to create a "generic" Chaos list for the game, they could have picked a legion that fitted the bill for the campaign with its more involved storyline (in skirmish mode it doesn't matter so much). I also appreciate that background-wise the Alpha Legin are very likely to be sneaking around causing trouble on an Imperial world, but they could have justified another legion with a bit of effort and a bit of plot tweaking.



4. Soulstones being able to destroy Monoliths.

Well, to be fair the ToV were just big soulstones that were designed to blast the C'tan with a rediculous amount of psychic power. The artefact Taldeer referred to as the Soulstone was probably something similar on a smaller scale.


5. Dark Eldar worshipping Slaanesh. Dark Eldar should not, should not, and WILL not become Chaos Eldar.

Nothing further need be added.


10. Dark Eldar soul powers.

What are said soul powers in-game?


11. Archons with disintegrators.

Although, wouldn't it be fun if they COULD take them on the tabletop :P

squeekenator
27-03-2008, 09:28
What are said soul powers in-game?

1. Grants a squad the ability to detect infiltrated units. Maybe.
2. Screams of tortured souls fill the battlefield and hurt enemy morale. SO yes.
3. A blast of lightning-like energy nukes an enemy. No way.
4. Green acid appears and corrodes enemy armour. Ummmm... no?
5. Instantly recharges a unit's abilities because they get angry. Meh.
6. A massive swirling vortex of souls called a Soulstorm appears and eats everyone. "Wtf?" does not describe it.

Profiron
28-03-2008, 18:20
40k fluff is such a wreck anyway, it really deserves to be re-written.

Inquisitor Feldenhaus
28-03-2008, 21:08
Well, first off, 40k fluff isn't a wreck, just Soustorms. And I do agree that the whole DE "soul" business is strange, I mean, yeah they "feast" of souls, but I find it funny that souls are purple organs with flames on them that can be harvested :wtf: Other than that, I like just about every other thing about DoW DE, except Soul Powers, and then, slightly off-topic, did anyone else find ot strange that the Immolater driver seemed rather crazy, I mean, insane crazy, not zealous crazy?