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View Full Version : To WYSIWYG or not to WYSIWYG. That is the question.



void trekker
10-03-2008, 19:09
Okay, imagine the following scenario. The players and GM have just sat down to play a game of Inquisitor.

GM: Alright, the scenario is as follows. You are contacted by astropath transmission while taking a few quiet days on the Caladan paradise planet. It seems that the local Astropath collegium got a message entitled ULTRA-SECRET: INQUISITION ONLY! SEND HELP. The message was from the Brig Moritori Capellus, which claims to be under attack by Xenos aliens in the Wolf's Claw Nebula. You have the only warp capable ship that can reach it within the month. You head for the nebula and find the Brig. It shows only faint power readings. Long range bioscans are inconclusive. Your adept believes that this could indicate a dormant genestealer brood.

NAVIGATOR PLAYER: Does it answer a hail?

GM: No.

INQUISITOR PLAYER: Any sign that the ship could use its weapons to attack us?

GM: It seems unlikely, but it is possible that it is masking its energy signature in some way.

INQUISITOR PLAYER: Okay, we'll get the navigator to drive us into docking position. First, we'll depressurize the hull, so that if we do get shot at, it won't cause an atmosphere explosion. Then, once we're docked, we'll enter the vessel.

GM: Okay, you're all dead. Now, let's roll up some new characters...

ALL PLAYERS TOGETHER: WHAT!?

GM: You're all dead. You all died of vacuum exposure when you depressurized the hull and opened the airlock?

INQUISITOR PLAYER: Why? We all bought sealed suits?

GM: Well, yes, you did, but you're not wearing them. You do realize that this game is WYSIWYG, don't you? I know I made that clear in the first session. And none of you have converted your characters to reflect the sealed suits. No, I'm sorry, you're all dead.

SPACE MARINE CHARACTER: But... My character is wearing powered armor!

GM: Yes, but he's left his helmet off, hasn't he? No, I'm sorry. Now, for our next campaign, how about some Pokemon roleplaying?

***

Now, this may seem a little silly, but if you played most WYSIWYG games according to the rules, this is exactly what should happen in that situation. I think we can, therefore, assume that nobody REALLY plays WYSIWYG in a game like Inquisitor.

So, how far do you take it? Just the weapons? Just the weapons and armor?

For my games, I almost dispense with it altogether. I want some verisimilitude (i.e. please don't tell me that the 25mm D&D gnome illusionist is a 54mm Eldar Harlequin) but as long the race is right, and the weapons are reasonably close and the figure is painted, I really don't care too much.

Ex-Blueshirt
10-03-2008, 19:13
If that scenario occured it would be time to kill another GM. Sigh.

void trekker
10-03-2008, 19:20
:evilgrin:

Yeah, but I'm sure you get the point...

:evilgrin:

Templar Ben
10-03-2008, 19:26
Is Inquisitor normally like that?

void trekker
10-03-2008, 19:30
Is Inquisitor normally like that?

Sigh. Hyperbole is a dying art.:cries:

blackcherry
10-03-2008, 19:36
not in the club i play it isn't! That seem a rather silly idea. Though its realistic, we play inquisitor as a kind of setup for narrative campaigns and being able to do all the cool stuff you see in films. It gets to the point where the minute details of reality are overlooked like that.

Templar Ben
10-03-2008, 19:38
I was just curious as I have never played. If Inquisitor is like D&D and similar then the goal is to be close because it doesn't matter if you Paladin is shown wearing chain and a shield when your character has plate and a buckler as the important stuff is on your character sheet. In 40K, those differences are very important because you don't have a sheet per model so you need to have a fast visual way to verify.

Mad Doc Grotsnik
10-03-2008, 19:39
Inquisitor, no, not really, as it tends to be a game of NPCs. Putting player characters against each other like any other wargame just isn't much fun, as they tend to be souped up nutters.

Having said that, it's best you still make what everyone has clear, even if it's just a scrap of paper with 'visual' stuff noted, like the Lasgun he's carrying, and his Re-breather. Sneakier stuff wouldn't be very visible, as combat drugs, wards and other exotic things can be carried in pockets, worn as tattoos etc.

void trekker
10-03-2008, 20:48
I was just curious as I have never played. If Inquisitor is like D&D and similar then the goal is to be close because it doesn't matter if you Paladin is shown wearing chain and a shield when your character has plate and a buckler as the important stuff is on your character sheet. In 40K, those differences are very important because you don't have a sheet per model so you need to have a fast visual way to verify.

Didn't mean to give you a hard time. Inquisitor is pretty much an rpg - with mandatory miniatures. The rulebook says you have to play WYSIWYG, which I think is impossible.

bringerofdecay
10-03-2008, 23:52
as long as a devastator is a devastator and a bolter marine is a bolter marine i couldn't give a flying **** if upgrades like grenades etc aren't represented, as long as i know that guy standing there has 36" range and isn't a tin can dressed as a hormgant i'm fine. WYSIWYG is for people with far to much time and/or money/insane GS skillz

oh and me and a mate used to play inq with loo rolls as we couldn't afford 15+ for 1 model ^^

Khornies & milk
11-03-2008, 00:18
You can only take WYSIWYG so far anyway, due to space constraints on the mini.
Abstract items can be in Pouches or under cloaks...or whatever.
When I think I can achieve WYSIWYG on my minis though, I do try to achieve that goal. My DWKT Marines have Frags, M/bombs, ccw and DW Bolter all on them, but my Vet's don't due to Cloaks and Tabards etc.
People like in the OP's example, need taking down a peg or two, as it detracts from the FUN element of the game.

Pokpoko
11-03-2008, 01:38
hell with wyswig i say, if you can't rember what your oponent has,just ask him damn it. you'r going to do it anyway, since you WON"T remeber the metric tonne of upgrades his character has,that can't be shown on model anyway.
MODELS WANT TO BE FREE!

Billpete002
11-03-2008, 01:52
it just sounds like your GM didn't want to GM the game. I know when I'm bored of my RP group as a DM I'll toss something retardedly hard against them and just see if they can survive :P

I suppose it's every DM/GM's right to ******* with players

Bookwrak
11-03-2008, 03:15
But it's a sign of a good GM to say, 'Look guys, I'm really not all that excited about running this campaign any more, let's think about trying something else?' It's a sign of a bad GM when your character gets out of the shower, wipes off the mirror, and sees a Harelquinn standing behind them reving up their Kiss, and the player is informed their character is dead.

Inquisitor is a different game than 40K, especially in as much as it's quite possible for a character's equipment to change over the course of a campaign.

lanrak
11-03-2008, 19:06
Hi all.
In RPGs and war games, minatures are optional extras.
WYSIWYG is a concept commonly agreed on by a gaming group.
Any rule book trying to 'inforce minatures WYSIWYG 'should be avoided IMO.

Its along the lines of 'BUY OUR MODELS OR YOU NOT PLAYING THE GAME RIGHT.'IMO.:eek:

All painted minatures do is make the game look better, WYSIWYG just makes element identification easier.

I find it odd GW markets the 'optional extras' as compulsory, and treats the 'compulsory element ' as an optional extra.:eyebrows:
(The icing is the cake, and the cake is just icing aparently...)

Ward.
12-03-2008, 05:53
it just sounds like your GM didn't want to GM the game. I know when I'm bored of my RP group as a DM I'll toss something retardedly hard against them and just see if they can survive :P

I suppose it's every DM/GM's right to ******* with players


But it's a sign of a good GM to say, 'Look guys, I'm really not all that excited about running this campaign any more, let's think about trying something else?' It's a sign of a bad GM when your character gets out of the shower, wipes off the mirror, and sees a Harelquinn standing behind them reving up their Kiss, and the player is informed their character is dead.

Inquisitor is a different game than 40K, especially in as much as it's quite possible for a character's equipment to change over the course of a campaign.

Brings about a mental image of " GM: you've tripped on a rock and fallen into a portal that transports your 4th level bard to the tomb of horrors... on his own, enjoy".

praesto
12-03-2008, 17:47
WYSIYG is good to a certain extent. I draw the line where the WHFB army books, in my opinion, obviously want you to spend more cash than what I could ever convince myself to do. An example is the 4+ ward save magic item Hordes of chaos can buy. If the wearer panics and doesn't succeed it's LD test in the following turn, the wearer turns into a chaos spawn. Now, if you don't have any chaos spawn model, you should simply count your character as DEAD. What a load of crap! So if I could never dream of purchasing a chaos spawn model and use it in my army, I have to purchase it anyways in case I want to use the 4+ ward save magic item? That is simply beyond reason if you ask me.

There are other examples of such things in the army books. One of the tzeentch spells deals damage to every model in an enemy unit, and for every slain enemy model, you may place a horror in close combat with that enemy unit, unless if you don't have any horror models. In that case no horrors are spawned.

void trekker
12-03-2008, 18:25
it just sounds like your GM didn't want to GM the game.

Boy oh boy. I think this site needs a FORUM on hyperbole.

Look, for everybody's benefit who hasn't figured it out. THAT WAS JUST A STORY. IT DID NOT HAPPEN. It was offered to show an extreme example of a WYSIWYG nightmare.