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alpha_dude
10-03-2008, 20:58
Hey...I haven't played empire since 4th or 5th edition (i haven't really played much warhammer at all since then :S)

I wouldn't mind dusting off my old army...just wondering what are some must haves for an empire army these days?

Jack of Blades
10-03-2008, 21:00
Cannons. Empire isn't Empire without Cannons, that's a fact.

alpha_dude
10-03-2008, 21:19
how do the various war machines fare these days? mortars, hell blaster etc?

Jack of Blades
10-03-2008, 21:27
Mortars? don't really know. Hellblasters don't autohit anymore, and they're more of a psychological weapon due to the high rate of misfires. Just blowing up on the first or second turn, is far from uncommon, but on the other hand many opponents will be hesitant to put units where your Hellblaster is. Alternatively, you can wait with deploying it until it sits in front of the ''We're going to smash your **** up'' unit of the enemy.

Though I think someone else will be able to give a better explana- oh wait, unwanted is already here :D

Mireadur
10-03-2008, 21:27
they made a great army book for this 7th edition, taking away all the cheese Alessio had put in. But in general it is pretty much the same as its been for the last 3 editions.

They changed the hellblaster rules too. I know it now uses BS of crewmen but distance doesnt affect it.

Still it is the most flexible army, anyway you want to play them will be good. Oh and finally you can check the rulebook for the steam tank rules.

Von Bismarck
10-03-2008, 22:46
sorry did i miss the part about WAltars, karl franz on a dragon and 2 stanks NOT BEING CHEESE >>

if u dont build a gunline or a 2 stank + altar or karl than its a wicked flexable list.

ZeroTwentythree
10-03-2008, 22:57
Depends on what sort of a list you'd like to build, as the Empire list is pretty flexible. A little of everything can work as well.

I'd seriously consider a cannon or two, at least two big units of swordsmen with a pair of detachments. I think the pistoleers are excellent as well.

One of the most helpful sites I found when I finally dove into an Empire army was here:
http://www.warhammer-empire.com

alpha_dude
10-03-2008, 23:12
thats good...i used to use big blocks of swordsman/haberdiers with hand gunner detachments, and usually at least 3 war machines. I have the really old steam tank/war alter/and war wagon models....can they still be used?

ZeroTwentythree
10-03-2008, 23:18
STank and WAlter are going through a bit of a resurgence, both are pretty good.

No warwagon.

bassmasterliam
10-03-2008, 23:40
you have got to have handgunners and crossbowmen are good too. a nice gunline army with some protection units would be a nice choice for an army. outriders are great to but a wee bit expensive and you have to make sure you get a nice firing line but in the end of the day 9-12 shots a turn a nade luancher is worth the points. pistolers are also a good choice and are cheaper that outriders and are good flankers.

Mireadur
10-03-2008, 23:46
2 stanks NOT BEING CHEESE

Sorry, the comment i made about empire being flexible is because im maybe too old fashioned and hardly look at a list from a powergaming standpoint. STILL, the capability the empire has for small and cheap 'bait' units which dont cause panic cannot be neglected when wisely combined with your gun line (because lets face it, empire its about guns) and your main units.

Yeah 2 tanks is so cheesy but this seems to be a problem coming more from the company politics more than from the game developers. I mean: Have you noticed how they are removing all the 0-1 entrances in the armies?

If it helps selling more miniatures there is no room for fluff or morals.

I actually didnt read the altar just got the book yesterday, but going to read it now.

Johnnyfrej
11-03-2008, 00:12
Who would take a Steam Tank when you can get a Helstorm for only 115 points?!

Seriously I've taken one in every game I've played any they have never let me down... Well technically there was that time against O&G when it blew up the second turn but that is beside the point ;)

If nothing else it is a great way to spend an easy 100 points for one of the hardest-hitting artillery guns in the entire game.

@Jack of Blades- "Cannons. Empire isn't Empire without Cannons, that's a fact."
Hell yah!

-Private Jon

Talonz
11-03-2008, 00:43
I wouldn't mind dusting off my old army...just wondering what are some must haves for an empire army these days?

In general? Lots of state troops. Cannons. Some supporting fast cav. That should cover it. Sprinkle with the odd nasty rare choice to taste.

Dirty Fingers
11-03-2008, 00:47
Swordsmen for sure. They're still the infantry of choice, i think.

Handgunners are also always good, as are cannons and mortars. as far as the helblaster goes, i'd go for the rocket battery instead, which is amazing.

alpha_dude
12-03-2008, 14:24
just got my hands on the latest army book...is it me, or with the new rules are pistoliers really good now? I think i'll have to get some!

ZeroTwentythree
12-03-2008, 14:56
I like them. I think they're excellent flexible troops that can fill a number of rolls.


Except for the fleeing and failing to rally part that they do so well when I field them. :rolleyes:

Commissar_Sven
12-03-2008, 16:08
just got my hands on the latest army book...is it me, or with the new rules are pistoliers really good now? I think i'll have to get some!

Pistoliers are good now but they were better last edition, still take them though.

alpha_dude
12-03-2008, 16:25
Pistoliers are good now but they were better last edition, still take them though.

how were they better??

Sureshot05
12-03-2008, 16:39
how were they better??

Pistols could be used in combat, and the fast cavalry rules have been changed. But I wouldn't worry about it, ignorance is bliss.

If you check an early issue of the watchman (issue 2) you'll find an article I wrote just before the latest edition on artillery for the Empire. Most of it is still valid and will help you with your artillery choices. The new Helstrom with a bit of skill can be considered a new, more lethal and inaccurate mortar.

I think one of the great strengths of the Empire list is that you can field almost any combo and with a bit of skill get it to work so there is no vital unit.

That said, put your faith in the state troops and, when well led, they won't let you down.

Curufew
12-03-2008, 17:37
RoboHorse,Pigeon bombs and HelpusDeer are must have in any aspiring Empire General !



Anyway, cannons are must have cause they kill monsters that your regular dudes have problem taking care off. Outriders are also good because they can pump out 3 times more shots compared to a handgunner, is a fast cavalry unit and has armor save. Cons are that it will attract a lot of attention and their 5+ armor save isn't going to keep them standing for long.

Talonz
13-03-2008, 04:02
Pistols could be used in combat, and the fast cavalry rules have been changed.

They did not have musicians however, that is a key addition.

Lord Lucifer
13-03-2008, 11:16
Hey...I haven't played empire since 4th or 5th edition (i haven't really played much warhammer at all since then :S)

I wouldn't mind dusting off my old army...just wondering what are some must haves for an empire army these days?

Having played Empire since 4th, the 'must have' in an Empire army is simply this: Variety.

The Empire, as ever, comprises of reliable examples of most every kind of unit, but has little in the way of first-in-the-field options.
The strength is in the fact that these dependable units are cheap enough to allow you to include a variety of options, tools, in your list, that can work together to maximize your effectiveness, and remove problematic elements of the enemy before battle is fully joined.


The heart of the army is still Infantry, but too much becomes counter-productive. Cavalry compliments it extremely well, turning it into a force to be reckoned with.
Ballistic units eliminate enemy fast elements with frightening ease (Handguns are the bane of all Fast Cavalry), hopefully leaving you with the advantage of combined arms, and Artillery can demolish the more exotic elements like monsters and chariots.


Must haves are thus: Core of Infantry, to give the enemy something to concentrate on
Cavalry to allow battlefield control
Scouts/Fast Cav to hamper the enemy's response
Ranged support to deal with problem elements.


I run two State and one or two speclialized infantry, with about three elements of cavalry, supported by skirmishers, and usually a unit of Gunners or X-Bows, and maybe a Mortar or Great Cannon (or Steam Tank if I wanna use the pretty model :D)

Commodus Leitdorf
13-03-2008, 12:20
how were they better??

Pistoliers had the Fusilade rule. Right now Pistoliers are good shooting/harassing units. With the Fusilade rule they were REALLY good flankers because they could unleash 2x pistol shots in the first round of combat. So they had twice the number of str4 attacks most flanking fast cavalry had (most get that with spears) PLUS it was armour piercing...

Sadly, with the change to pistol rules in 7th edition, you cant shoot your pistols in the first round of combat anymore, so the change was coming...but we FINALLY got a musician for our fast cavalry! I have no idea why we didn't have it to begin with...but oh well :)

Irisado
13-03-2008, 18:28
I haven't played with my Empire Army, since 2006, but I have just got the latest army book, so I feel I can add a few comments.

I broadly agree with that which has already been posted, but I would add that I find a unit of Inner Circle Knights to be an essential part of an Empire force. They pack much more of a punch on the charge than ordinary Knights, and are much more likely to break through smaller units in one round of combat, so I would never leave my army without one.

As for the rest of the army, I agree with the remarks about a balance of state troops, infantry and cavalry.

I tend to field a large block of Halberdiers rather than Swordsmen though. This seems not to be the favoured option here, but I find that they work well for me.

I have also noted with some interest that the latest background in the current Empire book suggests that Halberdiers are the most common state troops.

Does anyone else field a large Hablerdier unit, or am I in the minority on this one?

alpha_dude
13-03-2008, 19:34
I broadly agree with that which has already been posted, but I would add that I find a unit of Inner Circle Knights to be an essential part of an Empire force. They pack much more of a punch on the charge than ordinary Knights, and are much more likely to break through smaller units in one round of combat, so I would never leave my army without one.



I've had a chance to take a good look at the book now. While inner circle knights are pretty good, they take up a special choice slot, rather than core. I guess it depends upon your style of play, but i'd rather fill up my specials with black powder weapons!



I have also noted with some interest that the latest background in the current Empire book suggests that Halberdiers are the most common state troops.

Does anyone else field a large Hablerdier unit, or am I in the minority on this one?

Yeah that was the background when i used to play many years ago. I used to field a big unit of halberdiers, but i think swordsmen may be more effective.

Im looking forward to getting back into the game now...but i dont know whether to concentrate on my empire, or VC, what with the new book and all!

Irisado
13-03-2008, 19:46
Im looking forward to getting back into the game now...but i dont know whether to concentrate on my empire, or VC, what with the new book and all!

I have exactly the same problem as you, as I play both of these armies too.

I plan to buy only a few necessary models for each army, and use as many sixth edition models as possible. The sixth edition plastics for the Empire were, in my view, on the whole superior to the current ones anyway, so it shouldn't be a problem.

On the subject of the Knights, yes the Inner Circle does take up a special slot, but I just love fielding elite heavy cavalry in my Empire army.

As you say, it does come down to different playing styles, which is possibly the case with the Swordsmen/Halberdier question I posed earlier, but there may be a more tactical element to this point, as Swordsmen and Halberdiers differ quite a lot when it comes to combat.

alpha_dude
13-03-2008, 20:03
I have exactly the same problem as you, as I play both of these armies too.

I plan to buy only a few necessary models for each army, and use as many sixth edition models as possible. The sixth edition plastics for the Empire were, in my view, on the whole superior to the current ones anyway, so it shouldn't be a problem.


HAHA snap. I've been scouting ebay the last week or so looking for the odd models i need to update my army. Managed to get the VC spearhead pretty cheap, and also the empire battalion and army book together at a decent price. Luckily i had the foresight (or stupidity) many years ago to buy several boxes of the old empire state troops (back when GW had sales...you can never have too many infantry models!). Guess now's a good time to finally open them up!

Ainono
14-03-2008, 03:47
Sorry to say, but Halberdiers are considered one of the worst troops The Empire have right now and really shouldn't be used as a parent unit, and probably not as a detachment either. Myself and a lot of others were hoping they would make them better this edition since they keep saying it's the main unit in the fluff, but the pure facts are that Swordsmen are the best buy.

Swordsmen do cost more, but the extra WS and armor save helps a lot more then +1 S. Remember that the enemy is usually charging you, so you want a fairly big solid parent unit to soak up the damage while your detachments take out the enemy unit ranks. A spearmen unit can work as well, but personally I prefer taking less wounds, then taking more just for the off chance of giving the enemy more then you got. The WS 4 really helps against most armies, making them roll 4's to hit.

Swordsmen are usually the best detachment as well, since detachments aren't really there to kick ass, they are just there to remove the enemy units rank bonus. Making Swordsmen ideal at doing just that, and surviving to tell the tale, while Halberdiers have to wound the enemy just so they don't loose too many models and ruin the CR.

So in conlusion: Swordsmen aren't the flashy unit that will wound a lot, but the one taking the least damage and thereby winning the battles by regular rank, banner and outnumbering CR . Or when losing against a superior unit, giving them the least CR, giving you the best chance to pass the break test and send in reinforcements next turn.

Sorry about the long and windy post, really shouldn't write this late a night X)