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Damian Starsong
11-03-2008, 03:46
I have a few Qs about the much loved/feared/hated Leman Russ main battle tank...

1. When and why was it named after Leman? What was it called before this period of time?

2. We all know the main varients: executioner, atlas, bombard, standard, demolisher, exterminator, ect., but are there any OTHER varients (including fan based ones)?*

3. What is the background fluff for the "annihilator" varient?**

4. Given the "lego factor" of all imperial tech (as in, "our parts are pretty much mix n' match! take X turret and it will fit Y chassis!"), is it possible to fit an earthshaker cannon to a leman russ hull? are there any examples of this blatant techno-heresy? I would figure with field conversions, it would be possible. (and before the fluff and rules lawyers come down on me with a mighty judicial powerfist, remember this: I DONT PLAY THE GAME YET. I know, its sad ((although, in my defense, i AM planning on it....seriously! i swear! please inquisitor, put down that las pistol...)). I have almost every rulebook, codex, and supplement, but i havent taken the time to learn yet, and i am SURE that i have been the end of many a joke and rude comment from my local GW store whenever i walk out of their earshot...thats why my local independant retailer gets most of MY money!)***

I am an avid treadhead when it comes to the Guard, superheavies, and the Russ in general (hell, i have, I THINK, around 30 of them ((with forgeworld upgrades for most)) :wtf: :chrome:, mostly built, a few painted ((not golden demon worthy or anything, pics will show up soon!)).), and have always wanted more fluff for them. I even have INFERNO! issue 0 (i think its zero, its either that or issue one), which has a really nice interior sketch of a demolisher (sooooo cramped in there!), and would love any more tech drawings like this for them (BTW, i have Imp. armour vol. 1, so anyone who suggests that, i beat ya to it!). In essence, i want any background, past or present, on this beautiful tank (and yes, I agree sadly that the kit is undersized and a bit outdated, but still, i love them to death...), including its histories, tanks of note, technical aspects and drawings, ect.

*&**
I find the annihilator funny, as i had come up with the SAME IDEA, literally DAYS before forgeworld released their model for it! i even had the same NAME for it! (and no, im not saying forgeworld stole my idea, far from it, theirs actually looks BETTER than my original sketches of it...DAMN THEIR ADVANCED R&D DEPARTMENT!!!) It was meant for the "cog-boy" division of my tank company, whos sole purpose is to test new and improved designs from my forgeworld circling my planet (more on that fluff later!). So far they have three "experimental pattern" LRs, the "Annihilator" (same as the real one), the "Justicator" (twin-linked heavy bolter turret, two HB sponsons, and forward hull HB), and the "incinerator" (twin linked dual heavy flamer turret, HB sponsons, and hull HB). anyways, the main reason i want the history of this particular varient, is so that MY fluff doesnt get contradicted....

***
I would like to know this because i may do this in place of the "standard pattern" basilisk. I figure the extra armour of the LR would make this a viable option (unless the chimera hull has better armour? if im wrong, please dont flame me...((looks at inquisitor again, who smiles in a non-threatening manner, and hides his hand flamer behind his back))), plus, i think if done right, it would look fething SWEET! i figure if the old epic bombard was on a chimera chassis and now its on a LR, why cant the same be done with the ES cannon?

Khaine's Messenger
11-03-2008, 04:05
4. Given the "lego factor" of all imperial tech (as in, "our parts are pretty much mix n' match! take X turret and it will fit Y chassis!"), is it possible to fit an earthshaker cannon to a leman russ hull?

I don't think most Russ chassis would have the mounting necessary...although a great deal would depend on whether or not you mean mounting it like it's mounted in the Basilisk or something like the Destroyer Tank Hunter (which would probably make more sense and come out cheaper in the long run). Now, it might take a few centuries of ritual purification and the systematic liquidation of the field unit that "invented" it (if it's not a product of divinely ordained Knowledge), but it would probably get pulled into wider use....

Grubnar
11-03-2008, 08:42
According to the newest background storys, the plans for the Main battle tank we know as Leman Russ were re-discovered during the great crusade. It was found on many different human worlds, in many different configuations and had many different names.

In order to simplify matters it was decided to come up with a new name for this tank. Here is how one player thought it might have gone, I think it was posted either on Portent or the old GW forum while they were stil up.


Administratum clerc: All right we have decided to name the new tank after one of the space marine primarchs, the sons of the Emperor. The first name on the list is Angron, primarch of the World Eaters legion.

Imperial Army general: No ******* way! That guy is batshit mental! A bloodthirsty slaughterer with no regard for the lifes of the common soldiers!

Administratum clerc: Uhm ... ok. I´ll cross him off then. Next name is Lion El Johnson, primarch of the Dark Angels legion.

Imperial Army general: Well ... I dunno, I guess he is all right. But Im not sure it is a good name for a tank. You know the troops sometimes refer to a ... certain body part as a "johnson". I think it would be very undignified and the source of many jokes.

Ok, ok, point taken. Next on the list is Leman Russ, primarch of the Space Wolfs legion. What about him?

Imperial Army general: Oh he is very popular with the troops. He cares for the lives and welfare of all the soldiers of the Imperium, not just his own men. He is considered strict but fair and a truly great military commander and tactician. Not to mention he is a formidable warrior in his own and not afraid to lead from the front and get "stuck in"!

Administratum clerc: All right, great! Then we will call it the Leman Russ main battle tank!

pookie
11-03-2008, 11:36
Leman Russ in RT days was not a Primach but a General/officer within the Imperial Army and its named after him. ( but it was rediscovered in the Geat Crusade possible on a world that Leman was in charge of re taking in the name of the Emperor.)

Faolan
11-03-2008, 14:01
As for #2, specifically "Fan based ones", I've been conceptualising three versions for a while now.

Essentially, the first one is based upon a WWII Churchill variant- the one that mounted the "Petard" Mortar. In the turret it'd mount a Griffon's mortar system fired on the horizontal, giving it very short range but one helluva knock. How, you ask, is this different from the Thunderer? Well, the turret gives the ability for the 360" turret traverse. The hull mounts a Heavy Bolter as per normal, and the sponsons (if taken) would likely mount Heavy Flamers, which you'd normally avoid on a Russ, except this is designed for urban warfare and routing infantry that's holed up in buildings. Options include Infernus Rounds, which function as normal High Explosive rounds, but force a "Fall Back" (as per the Griffon's Infernus shell) and Blinders(described as "Photon-Flash" grenades in the fan-made "Adeptus Arbites" codex).

The second one is the Guard's version of the Immolator. It mounts two heavy flamers in the turret, with the option to upgrade to twin-linked Multi-meltas. Hull mounted Heavy Bolter. Normal sponson options. As with the Immolator, for the FLAMERS only: "Because accurate aiming is not essential for the weapon's effectiveness, the <change to:>Leman Russ may move 12" and still fire it's twin heavy flamers." It's basically the "Heavy Hellhound" for a "heavy hella" lot more points.

The last one is just an offshoot of one you mentioned in your original post, but instead of an Earthshaker, it mounts a Whirlwind style multiple rocket launch system. It can fire once a turn using the normal ord. template, or it can choose to "Alpha-strike" and blow an entire tube at a time, using the Apoc Ord template. If it does this, it CANNOT fire for a turn and must reload, and it CANNOT reload while moving (ala Bombard). It has no sponson options.

Trigg3rhapi
12-03-2008, 08:49
Essentially, the first one is based upon a WWII Churchill variant- the one that mounted the "Petard" Mortar. In the turret it'd mount a Griffon's mortar system fired on the horizontal, giving it very short range but one helluva knock. How, you ask, is this different from the Thunderer? Well, the turret gives the ability for the 360" turret traverse. The hull mounts a Heavy Bolter as per normal, and the sponsons (if taken) would likely mount Heavy Flamers, which you'd normally avoid on a Russ, except this is designed for urban warfare and routing infantry that's holed up in buildings. Options include Infernus Rounds, which function as normal High Explosive rounds, but force a "Fall Back" (as per the Griffon's Infernus shell) and Blinders(described as "Photon-Flash" grenades in the fan-made "Adeptus Arbites" codex).


Just my two cents...

So aside from your special ammo rules, how is this different from the Leman Russ Demolisher?:D

Mr Kibbles
12-03-2008, 10:14
there's smoke shells.

Faolan
12-03-2008, 11:15
Well, that's a good question, Trig.

#1 The LR-D mounts a cannon, not a mortar.

#2 The notable difference is that the Demolisher is S10 AP2 (it is, after all, a cannon) with 24" range. That means it's a tank killer, pure and simple- anything else is just so much rubbish. It's basically a shorter ranged lascannon throwing slugs the weight of a Geo Metro at people.

The mortar, on the other hand, is a low-pressure weapon with a lower strength and worse AP, but is specialised to work against light vehicles and infantry.

One could, theoretically, ascribe it one of the larger, more Apoc-ish templates, like 7" (I think, I don't have a std template in front of me) to compensate.

Furthermore, as a mortar is a low-pressure weapon (unlike a cannon or howitzer, which is a high-pressure weapon), when fired on the level it'd have a shorter range still- 18".

#3, and really the MOST important, is that it's a different model. At the risk of sounding like a tool here, I'm going to quote something from the GW-US (http://us.games-workshop.com/games/40k/apocalypse/gaming/scratch/1.htm)site about this, it's a spirit thing I'm going for...


Models first

... First of all it means you will avoid the temptation to create datasheets ‘on paper’, before you start on the model. And the reason you want to avoid doing that is because it’s only a hop, skip and a jump away from making a model based on its effectiveness under the rules, rather than making it because you think it will look great.

It goes on further to say something that I agree with even more:


nothing gets a players back up more than a scratch-built model that is clearly only designed to take advantage of the rules.

So sure, you could take a Demolisher. In a lot of situations, that Demolisher would be a far better choice, and this one would only come into play as truly great during a few rare times, comparatively. But it's about fluffing a bit and adding character to an army.

Don't get me wrong, I love to win, I just abhor power gaming, and since I spend so much time and money on this, I might as well indulge flights of fancy like this at times, like Damo is with his initial post.

Leftenant Gashrog
12-03-2008, 15:36
Leman Russ in RT days was not a Primach but a General/officer within the Imperial Army and its named after him.

Leman Russ was retconned* into being a Primach with the release of Space Marine 1st edition, and I was under the impression that GW didnt come up with the Leman Russ tank until after that. (the Leman Russ certainly started out in EPIC, but SM1e was a stand alone consolidation of the Adeptus Titanicus infantry/vehicle rules published in WD)

*well sortof, even in the RT rulebook he was listed as being instrumental in the founding of the Space Wolves.

Damian Starsong
13-03-2008, 02:41
Thanks for the help guys!

I love how the older RT fluff is sooo different from todays, i never knew leman was originally in the guard...kinda like the older "ultra-smurf" fluff....

"half-eldar" psyker, indeed....