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View Full Version : How to deal with well-protected warmachine as VC?



him_15
11-03-2008, 13:28
Let's say, two cannon and a mortor on a hill with no woods nearby, surrounding by a bunch of gunline (crossbow, handgun, etc.)
I've found it very hard to actually kill the warmachine.
They simply kill everything before I could get into close combat...
Any idea?...

Johnnyfrej
11-03-2008, 13:35
I would use Dire Wolves and Bat Swarms. The wolves charge forward and attempt to lock the handgunners in CC. The Bat Swarm can take a few casualties and still be capable of killing 3 Empire Crewman.

...I can't help feeling a little traitorous saying that as I am telling you how to kill Artillery Crewman when IRL that happens to me my job :(

-Private Jon, (Cannon Crewman)

Ward.
11-03-2008, 13:44
I would use Dire Wolves and Bat Swarms. The wolves charge forward and attempt to lock the handgunners in CC. The Bat Swarm can take a few casualties and still be capable of killing 3 Empire Crewman.

...I can't help feeling a little traitorous saying that as I am telling you how to kill Artillery Crewman when IRL that happens to me my job :(

-Private Jon, (Cannon Crewman)

Your pretty much one of the only people that has a fluffy reason to feild a gunline now.


A good bet seems to be summoning a block of zombies and engaging them until most of your armies in combat or something with a little more teeth gets there.

Malorian
11-03-2008, 13:49
For an all out gunline a good tactic I came up with is a unit of ghouls with ghoulkin, and inside them is a vampire with movement 9, etheral, and terror. What ever other gear you give doesn't matter as you'll easily beat 10 gunners.

You will charge 2nd turn for sure, and when they try to stand and shoot they won't be able to even harm the vampire. Then they have to take a bunch of terror tests as you run around killing things : )

Chaos Undecided
11-03-2008, 13:57
Spectral Form vampire wouldnt be able to join the ghoul unit but a winged one could, with a second vampire contributing the ghoul scouting move you could potentially with the war machines sitting on a hill be able to drawn los and therefore charge the vampire into them on the first turn if they are close enough.

Malorian
11-03-2008, 14:09
I thought it was just non etheral characters couldn't join etheral units? Does it work the other way around too?

Count de Monet
11-03-2008, 14:13
Try to stay out of range/LOS and fight the rest of his army?

Some flying terror thingie?

fubukii
11-03-2008, 14:59
spirit hosts normally do the trick vs non skaven and dwarf warmachines and can make good screens
- Dire wolves
_ bats
- flying vampires
- Wraiths
- Dow scouts :)
-Summon zombies in front of the machine making them waste shots on your summoned unit or, summon then vanhels.

GrogsnotPowwabomba
11-03-2008, 15:02
Honestly, I think Vampires are one of the easiest armies out there to defeat a gunline with. There are so many options its ridiculous. Raise Dead seems like a rather obvious solution to me.

Barring that, a nice strong flank consisting of some small units of 5 Dire Wolves (3-4 units would be ideal), some Fell Bats, and a Blood Knight unit with Banner of Blood Keep and accompanied by a BSB with the Banner of Drakenhof will give your opponent nightmares. Use the other units to help screen the Blook Knights, and once they reach combat its game over. Being that these units will be on the flank, there is no way his entire will be able to shoot at them properly. Combined with the speed and the sturdy protection the Blood Knights will have, and I think your chances of seeing combat will be high.

Dark_Mage99
11-03-2008, 15:26
For an all out gunline a good tactic I came up with is a unit of ghouls with ghoulkin, and inside them is a vampire with movement 9, etheral, and terror. What ever other gear you give doesn't matter as you'll easily beat 10 gunners.

You will charge 2nd turn for sure, and when they try to stand and shoot they won't be able to even harm the vampire. Then they have to take a bunch of terror tests as you run around killing things : )

You can't have a movement 9 vampire if you're ethereal - it limits you to 0 magic items.

But yeah, a winged one would certainly do the trick.

crimslain
11-03-2008, 16:11
what about just raising a unit of zombies right infront of the handgunners/cannon crew with the Sceptre de noit, then move them into combat and use your ION to add ranks to that unit... simple fix, id risk give 50VP to take it all out with my flanking vampires.

Johnnyfrej
11-03-2008, 21:01
Your pretty much one of the only people that has a fluffy reason to feild a gunline now.

We'll your half-right. I am currently working on a Nuln army but it isn't a gunline...kinda. The core of the army are large blocks (20+) of Spearman (full command) with Swordsmen Detachments (9-10 Swordsmen) and Handgunners (edit: as independants, 10 strong and Marksmen w/ Repeater Handgun), with knights (single ranks of 5, may or may not have command depending on points limit) riding flanks and artillery (Cannons and Helstorms) providing fire support.

Back to VC, can't you upgrade Ghouls to have the Scouts special rule (Ghoulkin is it?)? This can make a great warmachine killer if you plant them in a forest or behind cover and have clear los to the warmachines.

-Private Jon

GodHead
11-03-2008, 21:03
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe you can put command models in detachments (the marksmen in the handgunners).

Now of course if you intended them to be used as separate units, then there's no problem, but it's unclear from your original post.

ObiWan
11-03-2008, 22:02
I don't recall the exact cost of etheral and the M9 item, but they come from separate allowances in points so the combo is valid.

GodHead
11-03-2008, 22:04
No, that's not the issue, the issue is that if you make your Vampire Ethereal using the Bloodline Power, he is not allowed to take any magic items at all. The Talisman of Lycni is 10 points, but it's a magic item, so he may not take it.

Spoonie
11-03-2008, 22:12
Yes, there's a reason you have to be a vampire lord to be ethereal AND fast. Although arguably in 3k points a second lord with just level 3, flying and ethereal would be pretty funny. You could even give him a great weapon.

ObiWan
11-03-2008, 22:51
No, that's not the issue, the issue is that if you make your Vampire Ethereal using the Bloodline Power, he is not allowed to take any magic items at all. The Talisman of Lycni is 10 points, but it's a magic item, so he may not take it.

You are right, I forgot that part duh!

Ethereal and flyer then? again I don't recall the points...

Although maybe not a very good idea, probably not enough return on the investment. Lots of silly fun though :p.

Edit: beat to it, I left the window open waaaay too much time! But I am not sure you can give him a GW...

Spirit
12-03-2008, 01:54
I don't see why no one has suggested this.

Cant you just raise a line of zombies at the hill? things need line of sight to fire in warhammer don't they? Or can you just "guess" at the zombies?

I use a scouting vampire, with m9, if you cant get 1 vanhells cast then its your own fault for not taking enough vanhells!

Kerill
12-03-2008, 03:20
It seems fairly straightforward, raise zombies (although only 12" range) fell bats (raise more with magic before sending them in) or combining ghoulkin with flying ability on some of your vamps- 8" march move then 20" flying move should hit most things not deployed too far back.

Conotor
12-03-2008, 13:13
Just raise back most things that die.

Can't fell bats break war machines pretty well?

Spirit
12-03-2008, 18:23
Just raise back most things that die.

Can't fell bats break war machines pretty well?


Yes, yes they can! And you raise back d6 per spell, so have a unit of 4 or 5 flapping about. Long range and skirmiser makes them pretty safe vs shooting.

tw1386
12-03-2008, 19:11
You can never go wrong with a terror causing zombie dragon in their rear :).

Danger Rat
12-03-2008, 19:54
Fell bats generally do the job well and are just a little bit cheaper than a zombie dragon!