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Logarithm Udgaur
11-03-2008, 14:26
I have a few questions about what kind of equipment the Sisters use when involved in total war, such as represented in the Apocalypse rules.
I know they use mainly the same equipment as SM in their day to day operations (rhinos, power armor, etc..), but with some unique vehicles based on the rhino chassis. I am mainly wondering if they use things like Thunderhawks, Drop Pods, etc... for planetary assaults.
Any and all opinions and help is appreciated.

pookie
11-03-2008, 14:40
only SM use Thunderhawks and DP iirc. (including GK's).

trydragon
11-03-2008, 14:44
From my understanding they borrow IG ships, so i guess they use aquila landers rather then Drop pods.

Davout
11-03-2008, 15:16
Don't forget the giant rolling cathedral, which is pictured in the codex.

DrDoom
11-03-2008, 20:10
Basically, they Guard stuff to get to the planet, and Space Marine stuff to move around on the planet.

Plus that cool rolling cathedral

Promethius
11-03-2008, 20:13
I had to guess, I would say that the rolling Cathedral is probably an appropriated IG Leviathan.

Killgore
11-03-2008, 21:35
why would sisters not have a thunderhawk if they have an inquisitor buddy with them?

you telling me the mighty inquisition dosnt have a stash of thunderhawks under their fortresses?

anyway its a big galexy, theres many types of landing assault ships/ drop pods thats SoB could use

Burnthem
11-03-2008, 21:37
anyway its a big galexy, theres many types of landing assault ships/ drop pods thats SoB could use

Exactly, they would use whatever was to hand and suited the situation best IMO.

Logarithm Udgaur
12-03-2008, 00:39
It seems like they would have there own stash of Thunderhawks. I know all the SM players want their shiny toys to be just for the boys, but it just makes little sense from a military standpoint, particularly with everything in the imperial armory being of a "standard" pattern.
Why would they build there own transport, which they would have to build a new support structure (logistics-wise) around, when a perfectly suitable transport already exists?
Even something like this does not seem out of the realm of possibilities to me.
http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk?do=Individual&code=99110301025&orignav=300808
Also, I agree that the rolling Cathedral pictured in the codex art is most likely a Leviathan or even Capitol Imperialis Transport variant.

Brother Siccarius
12-03-2008, 03:46
It seems like they would have there own stash of Thunderhawks. I know all the SM players want their shiny toys to be just for the boys, but it just makes little sense from a military standpoint, particularly with everything in the imperial armory being of a "standard" pattern.
Why would they build there own transport, which they would have to build a new support structure (logistics-wise) around, when a perfectly suitable transport already exists?
My guess would be that the Thunderhawks are much like the Land Speeders and Land Raiders, two patterns reserved for the Marines (Even the Demonhunters borrow the Grey Knight's Land Raiders). If it were just a straight standard of equipment then Imperial Guard would have their Land Raiders, Rhinos, and Land speeders still.

I would also point out that we're talking Sisters, not inquisition here, which puts it on an entirely different level. Inquisition can requisition anything it wants, but the Sisters use what they have or negotiate for what they don't have. All in all the Sisters of Battle are more of an infantry based group (yes, even with their tanks), and would probably just have tons of fanatics and followers on the battlefield to back up their own squads. At most I could imagine a variant on the Bandeblade, which is probably better represented by the variant already in the Apocalypse book.

ctsteel
12-03-2008, 10:42
I suspect the baleful glare of a canoness, and the sight of her bodyguard's hands hovering over the handle of their bolters, while she questions how loyal the admiral truly is to the emperor's cause, would see most requests for materiel granted post-haste, accompanied by a bead of sweat and a muttered prayer to the emperor.

pookie
12-03-2008, 10:46
It seems like they would have there own stash of Thunderhawks. I know all the SM players want their shiny toys to be just for the boys, but it just makes little sense from a military standpoint, particularly with everything in the imperial armory being of a "standard" pattern.
Why would they build there own transport, which they would have to build a new support structure (logistics-wise) around, when a perfectly suitable transport already exists?
Even something like this does not seem out of the realm of possibilities to me.
http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk?do=Individual&code=99110301025&orignav=300808

you did notice its name :rolleyes:

why cant marines have there own Transports taht are for there use only?

a standard SoB force wouldnt have this equipment unless aided by a faction of the Inquisition, SoB are not SM, they would use equipment more suited to teh IG than SM imo.

battle captain corpus
12-03-2008, 12:40
I cant see SoB using Thunderhawks, theres not even any fluff there to support this theory either.
They would just make do with what they could find in the arena the currently fight in. Bearing in mind many IG units would have transports and landers far more easier to acquire than a Thunderhawk.
Also, even if the Inquisition did have a "stash" of Thunderhawks, it may take months if not years for them to mobilised and arrive. And anyway, as Inquisitor Thaddues says "There is no Inquisition, only Inquisitors." Maybe there isnt even a formal HQ anyway....;)

Sai-Lauren
13-03-2008, 12:38
IIRC, the first Daemonifugue comic had some Sisters making a combat drop using drop pods, so I'd say that they can use them - I think the Ecclesiarchy is powerful enough, and has enough official and unofficial backing, to be able have a small number of their own vessels without people complaining too loudly - the Inquisition will probably find it handy too when they need them, so won't complain to much either (but they'll keep a very, very close eye on them).
No deathwind pods though.

Thunderhawks no. There would be shuttles available for dropping vehicles, troops and supplies, but they'd be large ones (company level transports).


Maybe there isnt even a formal HQ anyway....
What's in Antarctica on Terra then, if not the Inquisitions main HQ? They do have buildings, research facilities, supply bases, and barracks and training facilities for their troops. In fact, I'd say the Inquisitors in the fluff and fiction (Draco, Eisenhorn, Ravenor etc) are the exception, and most work out of such facilities - very few of them are undercover field agents.

Critias
13-03-2008, 13:22
I don't remember where I read it (of course), but I'm pretty sure I remember hearing about Sisters using Valkyries in at least one of the novels. Take 'em or leave 'em if you're talking "canon," naturally, but that's what I remember reading.

reorox
20-03-2008, 02:49
You must remember the ecclesiarchy or how ever it is spelled is forbidden from having a space fleet, so they wouldnt have their own vehichles for planetary landings. They would be taken on Ig fleets and use Ig vehicles for planetary landings. How ever if they can be affiliated with SM at times when called by the inquisition , so they would use SM vehicles then. So depending on the fluff for your army you can go either way . :)

Lancer
20-03-2008, 03:57
You must remember the ecclesiarchy or how ever it is spelled is forbidden from having a space fleet, so they wouldnt have their own vehichles for planetary landings. They would be taken on Ig fleets and use Ig vehicles for planetary landings. How ever if they can be affiliated with SM at times when called by the inquisition , so they would use SM vehicles then. So depending on the fluff for your army you can go either way . :)

Incorrect. There is nothing which prevents the Ecclesiarchy from maintaining a fleet (which they in fact do, though it is easily dwarfed in magnitude by the Imperial Navy). They are simply prevented from having men-at-arms. Second, if they wanted to mobilize a large force of Battle Sisters on short notice, the Sororitas would have to petition the Imperial Navy for transport, not the Imperial Guard. One of the first reforms enacted by Guilliman after the Heresy was the compartmentalization of the Imperium, which included (among other things) the splitting of the then Imperial Army into the Guard and Navy.

As for the Space Marines, no Space Marine chapters save for the Grey Knights and Deathwatch exist solely to serve the Inquisition. What will typically end up happening is that the Inquisition will petition the Space Marine chapter for assistance, relying upon either an ancient pact, personal favors owed, or the sheer necessity of the situation to make refusal politically unfeasable.

MadDoc
20-03-2008, 07:58
Lancer just to clarify one point, the Ecclesiarchy is forbidden from having men-at-arms AND from maintaining Warships (the decree passive didn't just abolish the Frateris Templars, it also removed the Ecclesiarchy's capability to form a War Fleet, not unsurprisingly as even without ground pounders you can still bring a planet to its knees with orbital bombardments). They have a fleet but their ships are just slightly up-gunned and up-armoured (and skirting the limits of the decree passive) "civilian" pattern (as in non-military pattern) transport vessels.

Lancer
20-03-2008, 18:48
I refer you to the Lunar class cruiser Hammer of Thor, briefly featured in Daemonfuge: Heretic Saint, specifically referred to as an Ecclesiarchy battleship.

MadDoc
20-03-2008, 21:00
Ah yes, because one case of, quite likely, unfortunate miswording completely obliterates all the evidence to the contrary... :rolleyes: :p

So, how bout we refer to the background which discusses the Decree Passive itself? Or how about the specific mention of the Decree Passive and its forbidding the Ecclesiarchy from having Warships in the BL novel Legacy (could be in Crossfire, unfortunately I don't have them here with me to check which, but it is specifically mentioned in one or the other)?

Anything to actually counter those sources? No? Imagine that... ;)

Just because it's referred to it as a battleship (an unfortunate slip up, I suspect, by Messrs Campbell and Walker) that in no one proves that the Ecclesiarchy is allowed to maintain a fleet of Warships, in particular because that one piece of evidence flies in the face of all the other evidence to the contrary.

If you want to try and throw a single bit of evidence at me and use that as your proof fine, but it won't hold water I'm afraid, sorry... :angel:

Edit: As harsh as this may come across as, that isn't my intention. I just felt it warranted a mention that there is more evidence (specifically) counter your point than the single (rather tenuous) piece you gave in support of it.

Chaplain Dionitas
20-03-2008, 21:13
IIRC correctly, drop pods can only be used by astartes as the shock of atmospheric entry and landing would break every bone in a normal humans body. Of course I don't have the reference for this.

Sister_Sin
20-03-2008, 21:32
The Decree Passive 0001288/M36 forbade, amongst other prohibitions on military activity, the Ecclesiarchy from controlling any 'Men under arms'. Thor was ordered to disband the Frateris Templars of Vandire and any armies and fleets assembled by other members of the Ministorum while separated from Terra.

Excerpted and paraphrased from Codex Sisters of Battle, GW, 1997

That order was duly done with one exception. The Daughters of the Emperor were kept on as the Chamber Militant under the name Adepta Sororitas.

It has been pretty much the case that if the Sisters want to go somewhere, and by Sisters I mean the Adepta Sororitas, they have to petition the Imperial Navy for Warships, and the Navy has its own Drop Pods which could be used by the Sororitas. What other landing ships are available is debatable, but Thunderhawks are effectively Marine ships...which the Inquisition could get (They can get Land Raiders after all), but I suspect that's it.

Of course, people can take issue with the wording used in the description of the Decree Passive, but after reading the entirety of the background I think the above notion is more likely to be the correct one; they have to petition the Navy for transport between stars.

Sister Sin

Lancer
20-03-2008, 22:16
Ah yes, because one case of, quite likely, unfortunate miswording completely obliterates all the evidence to the contrary... :rolleyes: :p

So, how bout we refer to the background which discusses the Decree Passive itself? Or how about the specific mention of the Decree Passive and its forbidding the Ecclesiarchy from having Warships in the BL novel Legacy (could be in Crossfire, unfortunately I don't have them here with me to check which, but it is specifically mentioned in one or the other)?

Anything to actually counter those sources? No? Imagine that... ;)

Just because it's referred to it as a battleship (an unfortunate slip up, I suspect, by Messrs Campbell and Walker) that in no one proves that the Ecclesiarchy is allowed to maintain a fleet of Warships, in particular because that one piece of evidence flies in the face of all the other evidence to the contrary.

If you want to try and throw a single bit of evidence at me and use that as your proof fine, but it won't hold water I'm afraid, sorry... :angel:

Edit: As harsh as this may come across as, that isn't my intention. I just felt it warranted a mention that there is more evidence (specifically) counter your point than the single (rather tenuous) piece you gave in support of it.

My single reference goes into quite a bit more detail than a single throwaway line. The Hammer of Thor was recommissioned at Ophelia VII on 0280258 M39, became an Ecclesiarchal flagship on 0440523 M40, and was assigned to Ecclesiarchy sub-fleet Augustus between 0734001 M41 follwing a series of noted battles, probably up until its destruction due to sabotate at Parnis.

Furthermore, the Ecclesiarchy destroyer Benediction was later sent (with a small contingent of Black Templars "as a gesture of goodwill between chapter and Adeptus Ministorum...") to look for survivors, and was itself destroyed.

Now, it may be possible that Ecclesiarchy warships are simply Imperial Navy vessels seconded to the Ecclesiarchy, much in the same manner that Techpriest Enginseers are seconded to Imperial Guard regiments, but that still puts the vessel under the direct command of the Adeptus Ministorum.

Mr Kibbles
22-03-2008, 10:03
In DoW soulstorm the SoB get lightnings, but that could just be the DoW peolpe thumbing their noses at thew fluff again.